why Nitrogen is better than Nembutal

[ksp]

why Nitrogen is better than Nembutal

Nitrogen	Nembutal
pros duration: 2 to 3 breaths to unconsciousness very peaceful + euphoria similar to going to sleep available inexpensive (relative to nembutal)	pros duration: 2 to 5 minutes to unconsciousness very peaceful + euphoria similar to going to sleep
cons some individuals experience headache, dizziness, fatigue, nausea, dimming of vision requires some technical knowledge involved setup gas purity if found before death - brain damage	cons expensive unavailable symptoms typically include difficulty thinking, poor coordination consciousness regained up to three days after taking the lethal dose

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info - extracts from wikipedia

Inert gas asphyxiation

…breathing an oxygen deficient atmosphere can have serious and immediate effects, including unconsciousness after only one or two breaths…

Inert gas leads to asphyxiation (death from lack of oxygen) without the painful and traumatic feeling of suffocation (the hypercapnic alarm response, which in humans arises mostly from carbon dioxide levels rising)
…
Loss of consciousness may be accompanied by convulsions and is followed by cyanosisand cardiac arrest. About seven minutes of oxygen deprivation causes death of the brainstem

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barbiturate overdoses

Symptoms typically include difficulty thinking, poor coordination, decreased level of consciousness, and a decreased effort to breathe (respiratory depression)

—-

…and a few patients have actually survived the process and have regained consciousness up to three days after taking the lethal dose

Barbiturate overdoses typically cause death by depression of the respiratory center, but the effect is variable. Some patients may have complete cessation of respiratory drive, whereas others may only have depression of respiratory function

 

[outrider567]

'If found before death' can cause brain damage--Nitrogen--That would be impossible in my case to be found before death, since it only takes an hour or two or less to die from Nitrogen--I do it late at night, I'll be long dead before anyone finds me, probably many days will go by before anyone gets suspicious

 

[Pluto]

Either would work fine with the right set-up. The problem comes when having to attempt an amateurish home-job that has to work faultlessly on the first try, all while in a state of distress.

 

[Someone123]

Nitrogen or another inert gas is peaceful, but for people without mechanical skills or that much time it won't work out- but I do agree with your post

 

[LesbianCarpetPython]

Yeah, I don't see why you wouldn't go for inert gas rather than anything else if you have the money

 

[actual_fox]

'If found before death' can cause brain damage--Nitrogen--That would be impossible in my case to be found before death, since it only takes an hour or two or less to die from Nitrogen--I do it late at night, I'll be long dead before anyone finds me, probably many days will go by before anyone gets suspicious

Mind that body can start moving and twitching after death and mask can be accidentally taken off

 

[Someone123]

Yeah, I don't see why you wouldn't go for inert gas rather than anything else if you have the money

And the mechanical ability to put things together, plus a good locat8on for this.

 

[jodes2]

Gas didn't work for me :(

 

[Someone123]

Gas didn't work for me :(

What went wrong? Was there a leak? That's what I would be worried about.

 

[jodes2]

What went wrong? Was there a leak?

I had to rip the bag off every time, it felt like I was suffocating

 

[FuneralCry]

Thank you for sharing the information. I didn't know much about the Nitrogen method but my personal preference would be N, but the problem is that it's not easily available and is not legal. Nitrogen method does sound very complicated and it's terrifying how it could potentially lead to brain damage, but the dying process from that method doesn't sound bad at all. The reality is that there is no easy way out of this life, it seems as though every method involves some sort of difficulty. But I do envy those who died peacefully, they were lucky.

 

[Someone123]

I had to rip the bag off every time, it felt like I was suffocating

Oh, so it's not really peaceful as people hope. I'm sorry you were not able to find peace.

 

[Sad_Sack]

Does anyone know if argon gas would be the same experience as njtrogen? I ask because I always see nitrogen mentioned but rarely argon yet argon is easier to get a hold of, it seems, as you can find pre filled argon tanks that actually ship to your home.

Also, one more con for gas method is that it can harm whoever finds you if there is inadequate ventilation. If I can wait long enough to save for tank and regulator I'm going to go out to the field by my home at night. There will be no risk of anyone succumbing to residual gas nor my wife or children finding me.

 

[NeverReallyHere]

You missed out a big pro for Nembutal: portability.

 

[TheManIllNeverBe]

Does anyone know if argon gas would be the same experience as njtrogen? I ask because I always see nitrogen mentioned but rarely argon yet argon is easier to get a hold of, it seems, as you can find pre filled argon tanks that actually ship to your home.

Also, one more con for gas method is that it can harm whoever finds you if there is inadequate ventilation. If I can wait long enough to save for tank and regulator I'm going to go out to the field by my home at night. There will be no risk of anyone succumbing to residual gas nor my wife or children finding me.

Argon should "work" the same as nitrogen in the sense that they're both inert and will both allow you to breathe a gas that's not oxygen, and therefore you won't produce CO2 when you exhale. The one problem I've seen mentioned on this forum a number of times with argon vs nitrogen is their relative weights with regard to CO2. Nitrogen is a lighter weight gas than CO2, argon is heavier. It's still SLIGHTLY lighter than CO2, but only by a bit. This means that if you're using a traditional exit bag, which relies on gravity to flush any remaining CO2 out of the bottom around the neck seam, then they may not work as efficiently with argon, and may end up triggering your hypercapnic response. Personally, my setup consists of a tank of 100% argon and an exit bag as per PPH instructions. I've been toying with upgrading to a SCBA mask in place of the exit bag, after reading the inert gas megathread here. I have a feeling that gas type would matter less with a setup like that, but I'm still not 100% sure. I know a number of people on that thread swear by the nitrogen + SCBA combination.

 

[jodes2]

.

Also, one more con for gas method is that it can harm whoever finds you if there is inadequate ventilation. If I can wait long enough to save for tank and regulator I'm going to go out to the field by my home at night. There will be no risk of anyone succumbing to residual gas nor my wife or children finding me.

Argon should work. It just didn't work for me

 

[ksp]

Gas didn't work for me :(

so sorry…

we really need to perfect this method ! (it's also known as 'exit bag' and 'N2')
it's the best one we have so far - most peaceful and available (except for few cases, like disabled, etc)

I had to rip the bag off every time, it felt like I was suffocating

you didn't have the proper setup: the problem was caused by CO2



i'd recommend SCBA/SCUBA/EEDB hood (masks) which eliminates the CO2 problems

this method is a bit complicated but much cheaper than N, and it's worth the effort:

it's the last effort you'll make in your life !​

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(befree and GasMonkey can provide more details)

The EEDB hood is much better than the manually crafted ExitBag, it's a system intended exactly for the subject matter (to breath a gas from a cylinder while being isolated and protected from the external gas). It has one-way valves for CO₂ exhalation, and it's obviously much better designed than the average "TurkeyBag" that you craft at home, since it's a real commercial product used in emergency industries.

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You missed out a big pro for Nembutal: portability.

thank you!

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Thank you for sharing the information. I didn't know much about the Nitrogen method …

this is what a death from Nembutal looks like:
this is like dying in your sleep: her last words: 'i feely dizzy…, i'm sleepy…, it feels good…' (at minute 48 of video)

i found this video by Michèle Causse in 2010, when it was still available in youtube
the name of the drug is 'Pentobarbital', and the brand name is 'Nembutal', or 'N' on this forum

 

[CTB Dream]

Wabt both

 

[GasMonkey]

why Nitrogen is better than Nembutal

You forgot to add that Nitrogen is much faster that Nembutal, 5~10mins of Nitrogen vs 1~2 hours of Nembutal (with some cases up to 24 hours, said by the PPeH).

Also with Nembutal you are risking getting scammed huge amounts of money and big problems with the law, since it's an illegal substance. On top of that, law enforcement has become extremely efficient intercepting it, and they will keep getting better at it with the improvements in the scanning technology and Artificial Intelligence to detect it (the typical shapes of N bottles etc). Meanwhile Nitrogen is completely legal.

since it only takes an hour or two or less to die from Nitrogen

Nah, 10mins max, normally 5mins.

but for people without mechanical skills or that much time it won't work out

Yeah you need an Aerospace Engineering degree to use a wrench to screw the regulator to the cylinder.

Gas didn't work for me :(

Improper setup.

Mind that body can start moving and twitching after death and mask can be accidentally taken off

No amount of moving or twitching will remove an SCBA mask (with 5~6 attachment points) from your head. Only minor movements were observed in the Dignitas study. You can strap your body to a deck chair (including wrists) and remove that variable completely. In the Dignitas study subjects weren't strapped and most died in ~5mins, with cessation of breathing in ~3mins, and that was using simple Rebreather masks.

one more con for gas method is that it can harm whoever finds you if there is inadequate ventilation

You can leave instructions on how to stop the gas.

if found before death - brain damage

The whole BrAiN DaMAgeZz iF fOUnD is just mental gymnastics of overly fearful folks, a proper N₂ setup would totally kill you in a few minutes, doesn't matter if you are found after that short time window. You obviously have to do it alone like any other method.

 

[Hollowillow]

I had to rip the bag off every time, it felt like I was suffocating

Then it takes more than 3 breaths? Sorry... Hardest method for me would be build mask... 500$ for no free? Sad... Wish had N.

 

[Sad_Sack]

Argon should "work" the same as nitrogen in the sense that they're both inert and will both allow you to breathe a gas that's not oxygen, and therefore you won't produce CO2 when you exhale. The one problem I've seen mentioned on this forum a number of times with argon vs nitrogen is their relative weights with regard to CO2. Nitrogen is a lighter weight gas than CO2, argon is heavier. It's still SLIGHTLY lighter than CO2, but only by a bit. This means that if you're using a traditional exit bag, which relies on gravity to flush any remaining CO2 out of the bottom around the neck seam, then they may not work as efficiently with argon, and may end up triggering your hypercapnic response. Personally, my setup consists of a tank of 100% argon and an exit bag as per PPH instructions. I've been toying with upgrading to a SCBA mask in place of the exit bag, after reading the inert gas megathread here. I have a feeling that gas type would matter less with a setup like that, but I'm still not 100% sure. I know a number of people on that thread swear by the nitrogen + SCBA combination.

Do you think a CPAP mask would work like a scuba mask? I have one that covers both the nose and mouth and is very air tight. The hose would need to be rigged to the tank somehow though as it is not made to attach. I have no experience with regulators and gas tanks so I don't know for sure how I could rig it. I am imagining inserting a hose that fits the regulator into the CPAP hose and duct taping it to make it air tight.

 

[Obliviate]

Gas didn't work for me :(

What was your set up like? Was your exit bag made correctly? you also have to make sure to have space on your neck so CO2 and O2 can displace, It should have worked no matter which inert gas. I have argon and I will be using it in a couple months.

And the mechanical ability to put things together, plus a good locat8on for this.

I promise it really isn't that hard. I know absolutely nothing about welding and tools and crap and I put it together. It's really just a wrench and screw.

 

[TheManIllNeverBe]

Do you think a CPAP mask would work like a scuba mask? I have one that covers both the nose and mouth and is very air tight. The hose would need to be rigged to the tank somehow though as it is not made to attach. I have no experience with regulators and gas tanks so I don't know for sure how I could rig it. I am imagining inserting a hose that fits the regulator into the CPAP hose and duct taping it to make it air tight.

I'm not sure about the CPAP mask. I've seen people on here recommend against it a number of times for purposes of CTB. I'm pretty sure I saw it discussed in the inert gas megathread. I know they're generally not as airtight as a SCBA/SCUBA mask. I was on a CPAP for about a year a number of years ago (I have a mild sleep apnea but ended up sleeping better without the machine), and I know the mask that I had wasn't completely air tight. Connecting the hose with just duct tape is going to leak and waste gas too. You'd ideally want some sort of adapter where you could clamp both sides with hose clamps.

 

[ksp]

Improper setup.

thanks for your effort in clarifying the nitrogen method for many others here
no reason the take traumatic steps, or hurt others, when there is a very peaceful way to CTB

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Wish had N.

we have no choice but find the next best option to us; hope you find a peaceful method!

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Do you think a CPAP mask would work like a scuba mask?

I'm not sure about the CPAP mask.

to me, the main advantage of a mask is to have a CO2 exhalation valves, properly displacing all CO2 and O2 while breathing. CPAP doesn't have it, and it's not very airtight, like TheManIllNeverBe mentioned

you can also get oxygen through your eyes, ears, and skin: if you close you mouth and hold your nose (similar to decompressing your ears when coming out of an airplane) you will see air bubbles come out your eyes when you blow; if you cover all your skin from head to toe with paint, you'll suffocate

i think a large mask will eliminate most of the oxygen in your system (the goal is to bring oxygen down to 1%)

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I promise it really isn't that hard.

thank you!!

granted, it's not that straight forward, but being careful, and a little work will reduce your survival instinct (SI), and more importantly, a lot of pain! CTB is hard enough, so we don't need to make it horrible

 

[jodes2]

hat was your set up like? Was your exit bag made correctly? you also have to make sure to have space on your neck so CO2 and O2 can displace, It should have worked no matter which inert gas. I have argon and I will be using it in a couple months.
I promise it really isn't that hard. I know absolutely nothing about welding and tools and crap and I put it together. It's really just a wrench and screw.

I wish I knew what I did wrong. I had a good bag, good flow and everything.

 

[CandyCane]

nembutal looks better to me from this chart

 

[Riddle]

Yea but what if after taking Nembutal you were able to wrap a large plastic bag over your head and tie it around your neck. That would leave enough oxygen in the bag that you would not freak out but then it would solve the problem of being found 3 days later still alive (which I believe is rare) because a lethal dose of nembutal should shut down your respiratory system

 

[Ta555]

Yea but what if after taking Nembutal you were able to wrap a large plastic bag over your head and tie it around your neck. That would leave enough oxygen in the bag that you would not freak out but then it would solve the problem of being found 3 days later still alive (which I believe is rare) because a lethal dose of nembutal should shut down your respiratory system

I've said this many many times on this site but people always go 'It's too hard!' but then in the same breath complain about being scared that N will not kill them. Seriously. You want to die or not? This is basically a foolproof method since even if you just get knocked out you'll die from suffocation without ever feeling anything. But no...for some reason this simple and most logical solution is too hard for most people here.

 

[Euthanza]

Nitrogen is non medical, we don't need approval from doctors but as replacement we still do need technical knowledge from divers

Either would work fine with the right set-up. The problem comes when having to attempt an amateurish home-job that has to work faultlessly on the first try, all while in a state of distress.

Perfectly summarized

 

[BillyBob]

H2s is a gas I have done some test runs with. Just mixing a small ammount of the chemicals in a jar and sniffing it once was enough to remove all sense of smell so I couldnt smell the rotten egg smell anymore and went into a euphroic state. Had to start breathing faster to try and get enough oxygen or else I would have passed out.
It is my back up plan is SN fails. Only issue is it is a danger to others since the gas is so deadly so have to hang notices up and all that.