Venting Why do some people get so horrified by the thought of younger people ctb?

[sserafim]

Exactly. Children don't have an adult understanding about ANYTHING but especially about protecting themself from harm. It's a parent's role to protect and teach them.
Children are naturally compelled to do dumb stuff like put everything in their mouth, not risk assess things which might be dangerous to climb up etc..
Would you antinatalists think a toddler eating medication thinking its sweets is in actual fact a suicide attempt???? Would you think they should go to hospital for urgent treatment? Or left to die?
How do you judge a 2 year old's intent in regard to this????
If any of you have an answer to this I'd love to know

No offense but I don't think children have the capacity or capability to contemplate existence, or understand what suicide is or what it means to die. I don't think they have that level of understanding about the world yet.

In my post I meant more of "young people" as young adults, like teenagers and older. I think adults (anyone 18+) should be able to make a choice on whether to die or not, I don't think children fully understand the implications of dying or wanting to die. I don't think any children are actually suicidal. Teenagers and young adults yes, but not toddlers and stuff.

Also, it's sad but true that people just want to keep young adults and people of my age alive so that we can contribute to society. I might be cynical but I think this is the only reason why they want to prevent us from ctb'ing: we "have our whole lives ahead of us" and that means that we're expected to work for a living (40-60 years) before we eventually die. Therefore, we're expected and obligated to partake in this capitalistic system of a society.

Let's say that people of my age group (~23) mass committed suicide. Then there would be no more workers, no new labor entering the economy. There would be no more (young) workforce, no more people feeding into the system. Society wants to prevent suicides because it doesn't want people to die before they have to work and get exploited. Society wants to profit off of you as much as possible. It doesn't actually care about you and your well-being, just the "value" that you produce (monetarily, labor and job-wise). It basically only cares about how "productive" you are. Maybe this is my pessimistic (or maybe even realistic), cynical view on the world, but I think it's true. I think it honestly just comes down to this.

 

[Foreverix]

I think the younger someone is, the more rash the decision to suicide becomes. When I was a teenager I felt hopeless and depressed a lot, but also had strong impulses that I'm glad I didn't always act on. If I had ended my life then, I don't know that I would have been worse off for it, but remaining alive allowed me to experience some new things, learn, and solidify my beliefs and perspectives on life. It didn't spare me from further pain though.

If anyone under 25 confided in me that they were suicidal and weren't terminally ill or severely mentally ill, I'd advise against it. Not on the grounds that they need to senselessly push through, but to make sure they fully understand the gravity of the decision and its possible consequences. At the end of the day though, if somebody wants it bad enough, the reality is that they are virtually unstoppable.

 

[Amelie]

as long as it's not impulsive, they absolutely have the rights to ctb

Hopefully you would also add.. if they are an adult.

 

[Daxter_87]

I have chores to do and they take forever, so I will be brief. Those who criticise FuneralCry for not replying should know that she suffers from autism, which may be a large part of the reason, so it is not her fault at all. She may also be wise enough to know that there is no point in having pointless arguments, as evidenced by the posts in this thread. It is all noise, chaos, and nonsense, so why bother?

As for the main point of this discussion, who wants to CTB and who does not is not my concern, nor should it be yours. People like to twist FuneralCry's words and say that she is pushing her negativity on everyone, that she is encouraging suicide, or some such slander. She clearly states that no one should be forced to live if they do not want to, regardless of age or circumstances. That is all. I do not understand where you get the idea that she is telling people to CTB.

Anyway, I have to go spend endless hours in the bathroom. OCD be damned!

 

[locked*n*loaded]

This is something I've often seen on this site, it's like some people get offended by the idea that younger people are wanting and planning to die which is a decision in which they have every right to make.

Like if someone wants to ctb it's just not the decision of other people to make, nobody is obligated to continue enduring this existence they were so cruelly and unnecessarily burdened with.

We only exist because other people so selfishly decided to procreate so nobody, no matter the age should have to endure this meaningless and futile process of waiting around to cease existing for even a second longer than they wish to.

I think the whole ctb and age association comes from people who are obsessed with controlling other people and are incapable of minding their own business, they are also in denial of how people suffer no matter the age anyway.

I also notice that many of those who insanely worship existence love to push their delusional beliefs onto other people, like I don't get what's so good about existing to the point that people get all outraged and offended by certain people wanting to die.
I see it as always better to not exist regardless of the circumstances as death means true relief from this cruel and meaningless existence that only causes harm.

I've had awareness that existence is truly dreadful and pointless from a young age, I'm 22 now and I feel so old, in my case the less time spent in the futile cycle of endless suffering and cruelty that is existence the better. Suicide is simply a logical response to escape from all harm, it could never be "wrong" as one cannot be harmed by not existing.

Let's just fill all the one-year-old's bottles with Nembutal.

 

[CrazyDiamond04]

I am PRO-CHOICE, always have been on every aspect of life, suicide, abortion, anything, and always will be.

That is NOT pushing anything and for some to continually push how horrible everything and I am EVERYTHING is, is that not the same but 180-degree difference?

Pushing about existence and then having others push about how horrible everything is and always pushing that idea/ belief onto others in an almost seemly constant same pitch voice? Humm is all I have to say.

At the age of 67 plus I believe in helping folks, sometimes they are in crisis mode and/or having a rough day and I LOVE helping folks, just NOT saying something as simple as life is 100% pure hell and never having any empathy towards the fellow family member here.

If at the end of thinking about it ctb is the way to go for the soul, so be it, BUT to push life is horrible all the time no matter what and never having empathy for the poor soul trying to make a forever decision is?

I also believe in my heart, I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I sign ALL my posts with my real first name, that is how much I believe in helping folks, not just being flippant about life and/or death.

It is MUCH more complicated and detailed than that.

Sorry but I LOVE helping and making folks smile and feel better NOT always being a HUGE downer about not only life but heaven it seems EVERYTHING.

Walter

Like I have said in MANY threads and posts, I HAVE been through the mill of life. "Parents" who HATED me and kicked me out with no money, no food and no roof over my head. Being homeless, working my ass off to save money to go to college. Having gall bladder cancer and a horrible car crash, where the young guy blew through the stop sign and I t-boned him, his fault and he did not give a damn when I was in ICU if I lived or died.

YES, I remember back when I was 18 with NO MONEY nor FOOD and begged till a loving family that GOD sent to feed me and put a roof over my head.

With the prior said, that is WHY I LOVE helping folks out, I HAVE BEEN THERE, and I feel that gives me some creditability to say that pro-choice and helping folks out is
NOT pushing anything ever.

Oh, I will continue forever as it makes me feel great no matter in the end whatever the person chooses to do, that is THEIR choice and no one should push just how horrible everything is 100% of the time, give the poor soul a break and have love.

A very wise and nuanced perspective. Something this site could use more of from time to time. I think people who've really been through the wringer tend to have better views on these topics. Like you said, you've been there.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I have chores to do and they take forever, so I will be brief. Those who criticise FuneralCry for not replying should know that she suffers from autism, which may be a large part of the reason, so it is not her fault at all. She may also be wise enough to know that there is no point in having pointless arguments, as evidenced by the posts in this thread. It is all noise, chaos, and nonsense, so why bother?

As for the main point of this discussion, who wants to CTB and who does not is not my concern, nor should it be yours. People like to twist FuneralCry's words and say that she is pushing her negativity on everyone, that she is encouraging suicide, or some such slander. She clearly states that no one should be forced to live if they do not want to, regardless of age or circumstances. That is all. I do not understand where you get the idea that she is telling people to CTB.

Anyway, I have to go spend endless hours in the bathroom. OCD be damned!

I agree- no one here is obliged to reply to anyone. I also agree that it's cruel to ask someone why they haven't killed themselves yet- in terms of a- 'just get on with it' type of response.

I know this isn't really what you were refering to but I would like to say- yes- FC has the right to say what she likes. It's a public forum that allows free speech. I appreciate the fact that she sees this place as an open canvas to vent. I expect that she doesn't want people to oppose her views here to be honest.

However- all I would say is- this is a forum that discusses suicide as a topic. It isn't a pro-death cult. If literally every comment here was in favour of her views- I think it would look more like a pro-mortalist forum.

Seeing death as the best possible solution for all people may be a fair enough philosophical stance. Still- it doesn't particularly respect an individual's own experience. That's what I really value about this place. That- for the main part- we respect one another's individual experiences.

I know you weren't exactly saying that no one should oppose FC's views. I also assume it won't make any difference to how she feels when people do oppose her views and that's fine- we're all entitled to believe in what we want. Still- when someone states something that some people would consider extremist thinking- as in infants upwards should be able to CTB- and it's their best option- it likely will create backlash. Even on here- that isn't a very widely accepted view. It's not to stifle FC from saying what she wants but it's kind of unrealistic to think you can say it and not have kickback from some people. (Me included. I try to do it in a civil way but I don't share all the same views as FC.) Again- sorry- this wasn't really directed at you because you probably weren't criticising that but, I just wanted to say it.

 

[snowcloud9]

This is something I've often seen on this site, it's like some people get offended by the idea that younger people are wanting and planning to die which is a decision in which they have every right to make.

They find it difficult to imagine a child not having the happiness and childlike innocence that they 'should' (maybe some disagree with should) have. It is a bit of a personal attack on their worldview, that life is all fine and good and that everyone can be happy.

I don't get either why she keeps posting threads where she asks questions and wants to know people's opinions..
Since she absolutely doesn't answer people or engages with others. It's a bit rude behavior according to me

Right, we are in a forum where many people are lonely and unheard. We should be here to support each other and respond to other people's posts.

 

[Daxter_87]

I agree- no one here is obliged to reply to anyone. I also agree that it's cruel to ask someone why they haven't killed themselves yet- in terms of a- 'just get on with it' type of response.

I know this isn't really what you were refering to but I would like to say- yes- FC has the right to say what she likes. It's a public forum that allows free speech. I appreciate the fact that she sees this place as an open canvas to vent. I expect that she doesn't want people to oppose her views here to be honest.

However- all I would say is- this is a forum that discusses suicide as a topic. It isn't a pro-death cult. If literally every comment here was in favour of her views- I think it would look more like a pro-mortalist forum.

Seeing death as the best possible solution for all people may be a fair enough philosophical stance. Still- it doesn't particularly respect an individual's own experience. That's what I really value about this place. That- for the main part- we respect one another's individual experiences.

I know you weren't exactly saying that no one should oppose FC's views. I also assume it won't make any difference to how she feels when people do oppose her views and that's fine- we're all entitled to believe in what we want. Still- when someone states something that some people would consider extremist thinking- as in infants upwards should be able to CTB- and it's their best option- it likely will create backlash. Even on here- that isn't a very widely accepted view. It's not to stifle FC from saying what she wants but it's kind of unrealistic to think you can say it and not have kickback from some people. (Me included. I try to do it in a civil way but I don't share all the same views as FC.) Again- sorry- this wasn't really directed at you because you probably weren't criticising that but, I just wanted to say it.

Fair enough. I concede that disapproval is to be expected, regardless of whether FuneralCry's arguments are true or not, because not that many people hold such beliefs. Still, the conversation should be kept civil, as you said, and we should be open to any theory, however unpopular or extreme it may sound.

 

[SolomonKado]

What justifies a person having the right to take their life? Is it the amount of substance they have experienced or is it the amount of suffering? Does a person who has only experienced anxiety through school? How about a kid who suffers in a third world country? Not being able to get enough food and looks like skin and bones from hunger along with other horrific struggles like civil war? What about a child that grew up being molested, physically, and/or mentally abused? What justifies a younger person who has just struggled to learn to be around people and fights with their parents? How about someone who is in their 20's and graduated school and college? How does a person growing up truly experience everything before their brain has fully developed at 24?

Trying to tell anyone that they haven't truly experienced life and them truly agreeing with you is in their hands. If they truly believe it then whatever you say to disagree won't matter. People justify things given time and outward stimuli. The brain is a funny thing in the hands of a child. Is it in our best interest just to worry about ourselves and let others make their own conclusions? Whether we feel they are wrong or not, good luck trying to convince someone they are the one who's wrong…yeah it sucks that someone in their young life takes their life. A person can find suffering in the simplest of things if given enough time..