why are religious women not outraged by religion?

[ksp]

my not-so-hidden-agenda is to eradicate religion indoctrination - forever

one way to hurry the process of eliminating this awful indoctrination is to understand why women are not outraged and angered by the fact that religion is considering them an outright inferior species compared to men: do you consider yourself in any way morally inferior to men?! do you really consider yourself as a sub-human species?!

because of march 8, i'm obviously upset and i've had enough of this bullshit! i have enormous respect and admiration for my mom - i wanted to give my life for her when she died, a long time ago. she was a very strong and very intelligent woman, but she was religious and i don't understand why she put up with this nonsense

at the bedrock of religion, Eve was the cause of all evil on earth - she tempted Adam with the 'forbidden fruit' - why do women still believe in this shit - today?!?

please stop the indoctrination of innocence minds, for future generations - we've been fighting too long and too hard to escape this mental brutality, and it's still going on, even today - 2023

ps. if you are not offended by religion, it means that you consider women to be inferior to men

 

[SerpentSnake76]

i agree!

 

[spooky_kxtty]

my not-so-hidden-agenda is to eradicate religion - forever

one way to hurry the process of eliminating this awful indoctrination is to understand why women are not outraged and angered by the fact that religion is considering them an outright inferior species compared to men: do you consider yourself in any way morally inferior to men?! do you really consider yourself as a sub-human species?!

because of march 8, i'm obviously upset and i've had enough of this bullshit! i have enormous respect and admiration for my mom - i wanted to give my life for her when she died, a long time ago. she was a very strong and very intelligent woman, but she was religious and i don't understand why she put up with this nonsense

at the bedrock of religion, Eve was the cause of all evil on earth - she tempted Adam with the 'forbidden fruit' - why do women still believe in this shit - today?!?

please stop the indoctrination of innocence minds, for future generations - we've been fighting too long and too hard to escape this mental brutality, and it's still going on, even today - 2023

ps. if you are not offended by religion, it means that you consider women to be inferior to men

I grew up in a Unitarian church much different than the values then Christianity which you were explaining. Everyone was equal there and the philosophy was more of just the encouragement that anyone can believe whatever they want to believe and it was very accepting. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you have a problem with Christianity and not religion in general.

Btw I'm not religious anymore; I'm actually an ex Christian and understand your viewpoint, I just don't think all religions are bad

 

[Forever Sleep]

Have you read: 'Hail Mary? The Struggle for Ultimate Womanhood in Catholicism' by Maurice Hamington? It was years ago I read it but I remember it being VERY good. Maybe this was from other books but initially- there was more of a matriarchal religious system by the sounds of it. Then- as men started to gain power, it saw these great Godesses being raped by Gods and downtrodden.

And so- we eventually end up with Christianity/Catholicism where- as Hammington argues- women only have two central female figures to identify with. Seeing as none of us can manage an immaculate conception- virgin birth- we are stuck with Eve. Yes- I HATE how women are portrayed in religion. Most especially patriarchal religion.

Still- if any of it's actually real- I wonder how much of it has been manipulated by men that came later. If Jesus was real- which I think COULD be possible... Not saying he was necessarily divine. Maybe he was just a very good person. Again- I don't know my bible but didn't he stop a prostitute from being stoned? He seemed to be kind to men and women.

I'm not actually that well versed on religion but I did read the other day that part of the spin off effects of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit was that they became mortal. So- actually- we in particular really ought to be thanking Eve for that! THANK GOD we're not immortal anymore!!

I do agree with you though. I think SOME religions have been massively damaging for women. I actually would love to know what it would have been like to live somewhere where matriarchal religions reigned. Some Godesses out there really kick ass. Like Artemis/Diana- a Goddess with loads of breasts . Imagine trying to get a bra fitting for them...

 

[ksp]

I grew up in a Unitarian church much different than the values then Christianity which you were explaining.

thank you for offering me new information and perspective

my post is aimed at all religions that oppress women, and yes christianity is one of the prevalent practices in the world. my goal is to make women to pressure men - especially in high government positions - to provide accountability for their views, and advance the obvious equality between men and women

major countries that assume the higher moral ground, based on religious views, are UK, US, and many European countries. many other countries follow in their steps because of old politicians and church leaders: they need to be eliminated. the world is still lead by indoctrinated old farts, so this is my way to kindly ask them to fuck off already, and stop denying the most basic fundamental right: personal autonomy

in my view, a normal society will not see any difference in skin color, or in gender / sexual orientation
a society that not only tolerates women, but truly see them as absolute equals (not higher or lower - every gender and culture has 'bad apples'). an enlightened society should only encourage and support intelligence - that's the key factor

also, i'm not exactly against spirituality; but i have deep hate against indoctrination - people should study what they feel attracted to, based on their life experiences but not based on forced education. if logic and science is not enough, they might find comfort in spirituality, but should not force their beliefs on their children, too young to understand complex issues

sorry for a long response: i know you understand what i mean
some ridiculous news got me worked up, and obviously it's not your fault :)
i'm just sick and tired of women being treated as second-class citizens - enough is enough (it's been enough for a long time)

---

I do agree with you though. I think SOME religions have been massively damaging for women.

this is what infuriates me right now: major religious indoctrination has been extremely detrimental to women - for THOUSANDS OF YEARS - this needs to STOP

i really hope that all women will stand up for themselves; why are you tolerant to this nonsense?!

I actually would love to know what it would have been like to live somewhere where matriarchal religions reigned. Some Godesses out there really kick ass. Like Artemis/Diana- a Goddess with loads of breasts . Imagine trying to get a bra fitting for them...

i would love to see that: 'Some Godesses out there really kick ass' !!! i would really love that :)
just because women need to be empowered against this massive old indoctrination

but, to be perfectly honest, if women would gain power they'd probably fall in the same trap; a matriarchal society would probably oppress men, because they'd feel somehow superior, and that wouldn't be fair either: man and women are equal - intellectually

society only needs to promote intelligence, at all levels

(i'll add something more related to my reading…)

Have you read: 'Hail Mary? The Struggle for Ultimate Womanhood in Catholicism' by Maurice Hamington?

i don't read much: first off - i'm lazy, secondly my current condition, and thirdly:
i used to read a lot, and i mean abnormally: in one of my vacations i picked up a large book! !1k pages or more, and i got so fascinated and engulfed by the subject that i couldn't stop reading it until i finished it (barely got any food or sleep). when i realized how crazy i can become, i stopped reading all together (i chose sanity over cultural knowledge :)

anyway, i take your word for it, and i'd love to see it (in a movie )
but it does sound fascinating !

 

[spooky_kxtty]

thank you for offering me new information and perspective

my post is aimed at all religions that oppresses women, and yes christianity is one of prevalent practices in the world. my goal is to make women to pressure men - especially in high government positions - to provide accountability for their views, and advance the obvious equality between men and women

major countries that assume the higher moral ground, based on religious views, are UK, US, and many European countries. many other countries follow in their steps because of old politicians and church leaders: they need to be eliminated. the world is still lead by indoctrinated old farts, so this is my way to kindly ask them to fuck off already, and stop denying the most basic fundamental right: personal autonomy

in my view, a tolerable society will not see any difference in skin color, or in gender / sexual orientation
a society that not only tolerates women, but truly see them as absolute equals (not higher or lower - every gender and culture has 'bad apples'). an acceptable society should only encourage and support intelligence - that's the key factor

also, i'm not exactly against spirituality; but i have deep hate against indoctrination - people should study what they feel attracted to, based on their life experiences but not based on forced education. if logic and science is not enough, the might find comfort in spirituality, but should not force their beliefs on their children, too young to understand complex issues

sorry for a long response: i know you understand what i mean
some ridiculous news got me worked up, and obviously it's not your fault :)
i'm just sick and tired of women being treated as second-class citizens - enough is enough (it's been enough for a long time)

I'm glad for your understanding and I agree with what you said about the indoctrination. I hate the Christians who force their beliefs onto others; my best friend who killed herself three years ago was abused by one. I was the only friend she would vent to about everything and it enrages me she had to go through what she did and it makes me angry knowing how much suffering being forced into a religion can bring to people because I know she's not the only one and there have been millions over time who've been forced. I struggled for awhile to not blame religion for her death, but to blame the people who tried to indoctrinate her.

 

[ksp]

…I hate the Christians who force their beliefs onto others; my best friend who killed herself three years ago was abused by one. I was the only friend she would vent to about everything and it enrages me she had to go through what she did and it makes me angry knowing how much suffering being forced into a religion can bring to people because I know she's not the only one and there have been millions over time who've been forced. I struggled for awhile to not blame religion for her death, but to blame the people who tried to indoctrinate her.

i'm so sorry for your loss… it's incomprehensible: life is completely unfair as it is - no need to fabricate more idiotic suffering on top of that

imagine how much further society would've been now, if millions of bright minds (women or men) wouldn't have to suffer at the hands of indoctrination

i truly hope that we'll learn to overcome this man-maid obstacle (as a society), and learn to think for ourselves

 

[leeloosnow]

i actually think there's some kinda connection between human survival instincts, the human existential crisis, to define their lives and give a sense of belonging and community. it just got all shat up by greed, money, power and outright cruelty. ive never been religious, i went thru my youth "trying on" different religions but nothing fit. Then had a horrible time in 12step recovery for years over how theistic that is and how alienating it is. Got a bit more education and experience in the world by then and became pretty pissed about religion. I was definitely an angry atheist back then, I'd argue the morality of things, devote my time to secular or other progressive matters. But after a while I kinda got to the point of learning that if I want people to accept my atheism, I have to meet them at a point where they understand. Also by then the rest of life got pretty shitty and most of my efforts proved fruitless, so a big part of me stopped caring to try, because it didn't matter, I couldn't measurably change hardly anything. I've always been the outcast, the one to advocate causes and not hesitate to push the envelope, that part of me is still there but so weak and hopeless about anything now. I remember being kicked out of private christian pre-school for refusing to say the national anthem, getting met with angry glares even as a child asking questions that adults found uncomfortable. Some of my friends from other communities have remained angry with religion, and while I detest it and believe there's no place for religion in gov't or social settings, but that it should be one's private choice, at think I understand why people believe what they do a little better than before. Some are so deeply engrained with those core beliefs, or afraid, or incapable of adopting new ideas when shown proof, or unwilling to do so. There's so much fear mongering and I really feel it plays well into those who are most susceptible (trying to be pc here lol), it's too much of an opportunity for predators... I just don't know. Guess I'll get off my soapbox abt it now lol. My heart goes out to all of us that've gone thru hardship because of religion tho, and it does give me the faintest bit of hope to see others advocating reforms and making it out of religious oppression <3

 

[ksp]

great post @leeloosnow!

…Got a bit more education and experience in the world by then and became pretty pissed about religion. I was definitely an angry atheist back then,

l've been an angry atheist (lol) all my life (for decades), but when i posted this i exploded; i simply can't stand it anymore… i'm bitter..

I'd argue the morality of things, devote my time to secular or other progressive matters.

that's admirable - i never devoted any time to this admirable cause; i just barely tolerated what is intolerable; i always felt like vomiting (a little, in my mouth) when i heard ridiculous and insensitive remarks, but i shouldn't have tolerated it

But after a while I kinda got to the point of learning that if I want people to accept my atheism, I have to meet them at a point where they understand.

that's called being civilized, and it should be approached as such (not like me)

Also by then the rest of life got pretty shitty and most of my efforts proved fruitless, so a big part of me stopped caring to try, because it didn't matter, I couldn't measurably change hardly anything.

i absolutely understand that! living life with a bitter taste in my mouth, but you do matter:
'I couldn't measurably change hardly anything' - you cannot measurably change society, at least not by yourself, but your opinions will make a huge difference in time, being compounded by others; women are getting more and more equality because of your previous actions, regardless if you realize it or not. any considerate corrections you make in your immediate environment will improve overall mentality - and that goes for me too, this is why i made this post: enough is enough, so stand up and put an end to this, once and for all

I've always been the outcast, the one to advocate causes and not hesitate to push the envelope, that part of me is still there but so weak and hopeless about anything now. I remember being kicked out of private christian pre-school for refusing to say the national anthem, getting met with angry glares even as a child asking questions that adults found uncomfortable.

wow! (i like the way you express yourself)

Some of my friends from other communities have remained angry with religion, and while I detest it and believe there's no place for religion in gov't or social settings,

absolutely!!!

Some are so deeply engrained with those core beliefs, or afraid, or incapable of adopting new ideas when shown proof, or unwilling to do so.

this needs to stop - i know it's not easy, but we need to find a better solution to eradicate this detrimental mentality (too late for me, but i'm hoping we will inspire younger generations)

My heart goes out to all of us that've gone thru hardship because of religion tho, and it does give me the faintest bit of hope to see others advocating reforms and making it out of religious oppression <3

thank you for participating!!!

 

[leeloosnow]

thanks for advocating this :) and responding so thoughtfully to my rant <3
have you seen some of the women's rights stuff TST does? "menstruatin' with satan" (free menstrual hygiene products) and fighting for reproductive rights via the fact it's part of our core beliefs- "3. one's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone" pretty awesome shit imo

 

[ksp]

menstruatin' with satan

lol

i must confess: i'm not very knowledgeable on this subject; i didn't read anything on it, just my daily experience, but i do believe in this:

"one's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone"

 

[ksp]

fair disclosures:

• the answers to this poll are not anonymous!
• this post is graphic and vulgar - intentionally:
  • to make a point on how religion is extremely ridiculous and totally immoral
• to all people that believe in the bible: i don't want to question your spirituality, but i do intend to eliminate religious indoctrination - i don't want to offend anyone, i only intend to protect children and future generations from constant and brutal indoctrination that gets perpetuated even in today's society: 2023 !! my attack on religious indoctrination is based on logic, and it doesn't allow for any exceptions or excuses (as used in the bible)

if you are a 'true believer' in the bible, you support murder and incest:

the - entire - human - race - was - created - by - adam - and - eve; facts:

• clearly, cain murdered abel
• as to incest, 'it was not considered a sin and was not prohibited for adam and early man'
• we know that adam and eve had other sons and daughters
• the bible allowed adam to impregnate his daughters
• the bible doesn't question the morality of incest between sons and daughters of adam and eve
• to make the obvious and uncomfortable truth even clearer:
  • the initial family of humans had constant orgies (with the moral support of god !)
    • fathers fucked daughters
    • sons fucked their mothers
    • children fucked each other!
    • god is a fucking sick pedophile !!! - do you still believe in him ???
    • this is what the bible wants you to believe !!! - do you still believe it ???

religion supports all of the statements made above:
- you have absolutely no problem with the morality of these facts ?!
- you don't ever feel the need to question the bible - not even a little bit ?!

these are some of the fundamental truths in religion - it's based on them !

---

some of the strongest arguments against my above statements, by religion (bible.org), are bellow:

Such marriages in the beginning were not harmful. Incest is dangerous because inherited mutant genes that produce deformed, sickly, or moronic children are more likely to find expression in children if those genes are carried by both parents.

Certainly, Adam and Eve, coming from the creative hand of God, had no such mutant genes. Therefore, marriages between brothers and sisters, or nieces and nephews in the first and second generations following Adam and Eve would not have been dangerous.

source: Basic Theology (1986 ed) - bible.org


1. obviously, the first people to write the original bible were up to date withe their genetics - obviously !

clearly, when adam was having an orgasm with his daughters, his first thoughts were that his genes were 'very pure', and not at all 'not mutant' - and so he slept peacefully the following nights (no reason to question his own morality - because god is so 'righteous' !); just wondering if the daughters were consumed by any guilt, or felt raped…

yet, religion condemns all incestuous relations - this is the superior moral high ground, because:

2. Certainly, Adam and Eve, coming from the creative hand of God:

- adam and eve come directly 'from the hand of god', therefore the rest of humanity doesn't come 'from the hand of god', therefore you didn't come 'from the hand of god'

- eve 'came from the hand of god', yet she was evil because: she tempted adam with the forbidden fruit
(to you, there are no obvious contradictions here ?!)

other sources: Incest in the Bible - from wikipedia.org


these are the best answers to support the bible?! really?!? in 2023 ?!?
these are the reasons that women are seen as an inferior sub-human species ?!

and women are asking themselves why are they treated unfairly by men ?!
it is because of this indoctrination that includes country leaders and governments !!!

to all the religious leaders today: i hope you get depressed by constant nightmares, so you'll disappear from this society !!!

these mental gymnastics and guilt-riddled manipulation need to be seriously questioned and stopped !!!

do women not understand that so many rapes were fueled by deep religious propaganda ?
are they still willing to stay docile and fearful ? do they not consider themselves as rational ?

the basis of religion indoctrination is not rational, and extremely detrimental to human development
all this ridiculousness needs to stop - we need to have a society based on intelligence and common sense

—-

another point about religion vs science:

religion is extremely arrogant, condescending, and 'righteous':
- all unknowns are actually known - by god only: he knows all the answers !
- so don't you dare question anything - ever !!!

a society based on science is humble:
- for every new discovery made by scientists, humanity discovers 10 more fundamental unknowns
- every question shows us just how much we don't know, and if anything: we need much more knowledge!

between the two: which one contributed to human development, and which one stopped all progress ?!
(hint: if it were up to religion, we would still believe the earth was actually flat - in 2023 !)

---

so, i'll repeat my initial question:

why are religious people (and women specifically) not outraged by religion?! (i know i am !)



ps. to religion:
- how does it feel when your 'superior' moral values are being questioned? well: you deserve brutality !