Discussion When did you become so cynical? (If you are) and, when did you start to question authority? (If you do)

[Forever Sleep]

I'm not sure whether cynicism and questioning authority are common traits amongst suicidal people but- I imagine they are. Do you have them and, when did they develop?

By and large, I'm actually pretty square and I follow the rules. I think maybe I'm a rebel at heart though! I'll likely follow rules and authority but I question them all the same. I remember even at primary school- I was maybe 7 or 8 or younger maybe. But, we were doing this experiement with a tank of water. We had to bring in stuff to do it with. Anyhow, I dropped this item by mistake. I still remember how gracefully it sank to the bottom. But, the teacher went ballistic! I must have been scared because I was a shy child but I remember thinking- what's the big deal? It was just an accident. This item belonged to my Dad actually but I knew he'd understand I didn't do it on purpose. I just remember thinking all this watching this teacher's face turn a red-purple colour. So, maybe I was willing to challenge the rules from a young age to an extent. I feel like that is an element of CTB- because- suicide is so taboo.

I know I was cynical from a young age too. I remember a few times at school where the older students were expected to look after/ keep order amongst the younger ones and it was supposed to be this great privelage and I'd just be thinking- this is slave labour so the teachers get to enjoy their tea breaks! But yeah, really early on I felt dustrustful of large corporations and governments. How about you? Do you think it plays a part in wanting to CTB and, did you develop these traits young?

 

[Kit1]

Never really trusted so called authority and or people who walk around trying to convince others that they possess the knowledge or authority to save others. I got chucked out of nursery before the age of 5 - I have no memory of this. Apparently I locked all the teachers in a room and the "adults" found me leading the entire class of children under the age of 5 down a busy main road! For context, I was non verbal and considered to be "mentally retarded" amd what the heck were all the teachers doing in one room leaving all under 5s in another classroom? No one thought tp question this at the time. Anyway that apparently spelt the end of my nursery career.

Barely survived the education system between 6 and 12 - showed up for school across various countries and went feom being non verbal to being able to communicate in 5/6 languages and was still told that I was "mentally retarded" aged 12 - I told (very politely in so called middle class language) the teacher a few home truths about her and the stupid education system that she and the school apparently did not take a liking to - ended up in another country where education system was better suited and I excelled. However due to abuse, left home and hid from police and social services as I did not trust them to take care of me. Got to 16, college, university and working (since 13/14) amd still don't trust anyone in authority.

Strangely I have a job which people will see as one of "authority" as I am in a privileged role to empower people and make a positive difference to lives when people are at their most vulnerable. A lot fo clients who h come to us (often without choice) don't trust us and colleagues can never understand how the vast majority of clients actually trust me! The truth is simple - authority is not to beat change forcefully, but to service and be of service to our fellow human beings when they are at their most vulnerable.

This is just my personal, humble opinion.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Never really trusted so called authority and or people who walk around trying to convince others that they possess the knowledge or authority to save others. I got chucked out of nursery before the age of 5 - I have no memory of this. Apparently I locked all the teachers in a room and the "adults" found me leading the entire class of children under the age of 5 down a busy main road! For context, I was non verbal and considered to be "mentally retarded" amd what the heck were all the teachers doing in one room leaving all under 5s in another classroom? No one thought tp question this at the time. Anyway that apparently spelt the end of my nursery career.

Barely survived the education system between 6 and 12 - showed up for school across various countries and went feom being non verbal to being able to communicate in 5/6 languages and was still told that I was "mentally retarded" aged 12 - I told (very politely in so called middle class language) the teacher a few home truths about her and the stupid education system that she and the school apparently did not take a liking to - ended up in another country where education system was better suited and I excelled. However due to abuse, left home and hid from police and social services as I did not trust them to take care of me. Got to 16, college, university and working (since 13/14) amd still don't trust anyone in authority.

Strangely I have a job which people will see as one of "authority" as I am in a privileged role to empower people and make a positive difference to lives when people are at their most vulnerable. A lot fo clients who h come to us (often without choice) don't trust us and colleagues can never understand how the vast majority of clients actually trust me! The truth is simple - authority is not to beat change forcefully, but to service and be of service to our fellow human beings when they are at their most vulnerable.

This is just my personal, humble opinion.

This is amazing! Sorry- but I laughed so much at your 5 year old self locking all teachers up and taking the class on an excursion. Lucky it didn't end badly but you're right- not good for those teachers to be outwitted by a pre-schooler! Sounds like you had such a tough life though- I'm sorry.

Reminds me of a story I heard about a commuter being sick of their buses running late. So- supposedly, not only did they steal the bus, they picked up all the passengers and dropped them off at their bus stops on their way home! Presumably, they abandoned the bus when they got to their stop. Can't remember where I heard the story or even if it's true but I just found it so funny!

That's a fantastic way of looking at how to help people though I think- to be of service rather than to be authoritive and force them to do things- where possible. I worked in care for a bit and that was difficult- trying to change people who had say soiled themselves when they don't understand that you're trying to help them- no matter what you say. That's tough but you do really sound like a force for good. I'm sorry you find yourself so unhappy- or, I imagine you wouldn't be on this forum.

 

[Kit1]

This is amazing! Sorry- but I laughed so much at your 5 year old self locking all teachers up and taking the class on an excursion. Lucky it didn't end badly but you're right- not good for those teachers to be outwitted by a pre-schooler! Sounds like you had such a tough life though- I'm sorry.

Reminds me of a story I heard about a commuter being sick of their buses running late. So- supposedly, not only did they steal the bus, they picked up all the passengers and dropped them off at their bus stops on their way home! Presumably, they abandoned the bus when they got to their stop. Can't remember where I heard the story or even if it's true but I just found it so funny!

That's a fantastic way of looking at how to help people though I think- to be of service rather than to be authoritive and force them to do things- where possible. I worked in care for a bit and that was difficult- trying to change people who had say soiled themselves when they don't understand that you're trying to help them- no matter what you say. That's tough but you do really sound like a force for good. I'm sorry you find yourself so unhappy- or, I imagine you wouldn't be on this forum.

I love the 'stealing the bus' story and hope it was true - then perhaps bus companies would put passengers in front of profit!

I have a lot of respect for people who are carers who deliver personal care. In the UK, we have 1000s of carers who work for minimum (or close to minimum) wages, no recognition, no respect, usually not much job security as most are on zero hour contracts and certainly terrible working conditions (the last teo apply to especially carers working within the community) and they are our unsung heroes (often not heroes out of choice, but out desperation). I would struggle to work in that role as I can be short tempered (especially with badly behaved bosses) and would probably be sacked on day one. Honestly if so many people in this country can continue to work and sleep peacefully knowing that their elderly or disabled relatives are being looked after, it is because of our carers who go in day in, day out, put up with all the crazy that is thrown at them and do a very undignified job (undignified due to the manner in which they are regarded and treated).

Forever Sleep, I have been lucky in many ways and there is not a day that I am grateful for how life has turned out. I am trying ro keep myself alive as I have two children to care for. The harsh reality is that when my foundation (birth to teenage years) is rotten at its core with so much abuse, pain and betrayal - that painful torture doesn't quite leave the psyche. I am still trying to give life a go - but talking about people in authority, those who can possibly make a positive difference to whether I live in dignity or die have decided to put their egos, ignorance and money above service and cynical as I am, I refuse to bow down to their crap and have chosen to live my life to the best foe as long as possible and end my life when I can no longer carry. In a sense, this is an ultimate turning my back on authority at the cost of my life and sadly my children's happiness if it happens too soon (hopefully it wouldn't). I have written a letter to the coroner explain why and what had happened that I had to stop all treatment and also prepared a legal case. Hopefully that might help those who come after me.

 

[R_N]

Not sooner than I felt the consequences of naive trust on my own skin. Unfortunately.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I love the 'stealing the bus' story and hope it was true - then perhaps bus companies would put passengers in front of profit!

I have a lot of respect for people who are carers who deliver personal care. In the UK, we have 1000s of carers who work for minimum (or close to minimum) wages, no recognition, no respect, usually not much job security as most are on zero hour contracts and certainly terrible working conditions (the last teo apply to especially carers working within the community) and they are our unsung heroes (often not heroes out of choice, but out desperation). I would struggle to work in that role as I can be short tempered (especially with badly behaved bosses) and would probably be sacked on day one. Honestly if so many people in this country can continue to work and sleep peacefully knowing that their elderly or disabled relatives are being looked after, it is because of our carers who go in day in, day out, put up with all the crazy that is thrown at them and do a very undignified job (undignified due to the manner in which they are regarded and treated).

Forever Sleep, I have been lucky in many ways and there is not a day that I am grateful for how life has turned out. I am trying ro keep myself alive as I have two children to care for. The harsh reality is that when my foundation (birth to teenage years) is rotten at its core with so much abuse, pain and betrayal - that painful torture doesn't quite leave the psyche. I am still trying to give life a go - but talking about people in authority, those who can possibly make a positive difference to whether I live in dignity or die have decided to put their egos, ignorance and money above service and cynical as I am, I refuse to bow down to their crap and have chosen to live my life to the best foe as long as possible and end my life when I can no longer carry. In a sense, this is an ultimate turning my back on authority at the cost of my life and sadly my children's happiness if it happens too soon (hopefully it wouldn't). I have written a letter to the coroner explain why and what had happened that I had to stop all treatment and also prepared a legal case. Hopefully that might help those who come after me.

I only did the care job for a bit. I personally found it too understaffed- so- I think they would have been better off going for people with lots of experience. I was going in new. People there were at such high risk and I was just getting myself in a state before I went in. I agree with you though- the staff were incredible for the most part. Literally angels on this earth. They risk their own health for the sake of others. It's awful that they aren't recognised more and you think- they went through covid too with all that risk and being overworked. Kind of shocking because the place was extremely expensive and considered very good. I dread to think what it's like in council run facilities! I still think about them all- the residents and the staff. Some of them were so lovely. I'm sort of sad I couln't make it work but I feel like- when a company dumps you and others in the deep end once- it won't be an improving picture. The seniors there were trying to help too- which was amazing but- there's only so much they can do. It seemed like they had a problem with a fast turn over of staff- so- that really should tell them something! It's a lot of companies though I think- everywhere is so short staffed and looking after their profits. Out of curiousity, I wondered just how much profit they made. Not that I understand much about money but it looked like over £1.5 million in 2022 when some of their residents didn't even have toothpaste! They could buy it apparently but it cost much more than at the shops. I just found that shocking. They're paying over £1,000 per week! I want out before I get old- definitely!

I think you're being so strong for your children. It's got to be so tough but I admire you so much. Yes, I think our childhood's affect us throughout our lives. Mine wasn't as difficult as yours but it was no picnic and it's hard to just put everything behind you when it has greatly influenced who we have become. I'm sorry you haven't received the support you deserved.

 

[AInilam]

For me it was realizing that sure, although corporations have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in "advanced" countries, they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world.

We're not being held hostage by a foreign nation, an alien invasion or even a government or force of nature, our ability and potential to progress is being hamstrung by an invented unit of measurement, a calculated business decision made by a captain of industry long since dead. Our daily marching orders are coming from a ghost. And generation after generation keeps following it, like inheriting a hereditary disease.

While there are good people in every sector of our society who work diligently to serve, protect and help others, as long as they continue to work under these corrupt and outdated guidelines, there will always be reason for doubt. I think what makes its scarier and especially disillusioning for me was realizing that the people who make up these government bodies are only human. They're as human as you and me, and are easily susceptible or corruptible by their own prejudices, personal biases and self-interests. Time and time again we see our political leaders breaking their promises, lying under oath and accepting hand-outs at every given opportunity.

I hope to God there's a higher being out there watching out for us, because as much as I want to, I cannot rely on other humans to hold true to their word or save us from ourselves.

 

[noname223]

I'm not sure whether cynicism and questioning authority are common traits amongst suicidal people but- I imagine they are. Do you have them and, when did they develop?

By and large, I'm actually pretty square and I follow the rules. I think maybe I'm a rebel at heart though! I'll likely follow rules and authority but I question them all the same. I remember even at primary school- I was maybe 7 or 8 or younger maybe. But, we were doing this experiement with a tank of water. We had to bring in stuff to do it with. Anyhow, I dropped this item by mistake. I still remember how gracefully it sank to the bottom. But, the teacher went ballistic! I must have been scared because I was a shy child but I remember thinking- what's the big deal? It was just an accident. This item belonged to my Dad actually but I knew he'd understand I didn't do it on purpose. I just remember thinking all this watching this teacher's face turn a red-purple colour. So, maybe I was willing to challenge the rules from a young age to an extent. I feel like that is an element of CTB- because- suicide is so taboo.

I know I was cynical from a young age too. I remember a few times at school where the older students were expected to look after/ keep order amongst the younger ones and it was supposed to be this great privelage and I'd just be thinking- this is slave labour so the teachers get to enjoy their tea breaks! But yeah, really early on I felt dustrustful of large corporations and governments. How about you? Do you think it plays a part in wanting to CTB and, did you develop these traits young?

My Prussian education (a lot of domestic violence) made me fear authority figures. I am still scared of them. However now when I am suicidal every single day I see everything with a certain distance. I am already that low. I am pretty scared to break rules though. And I am still scared to get in trouble for positing on here one day eventually. But this anxiety gladly decreased.

I am sort of cynical about many things. Volunteer work for example. My parents told me to look mostly after myself. Noone would care otherwise. I still practice that with buying products online. I don't care whether it is bad for the environment or local businesses. Poverty is one major reason for my suicide. I don't see a reason to worry about the material well being of people who have a better life than me. I don't give money to charity organizations but also because I am so fucking anxious about poverty.

On climate change I am cynical which is probably a pretty bad character trait. And in real life I would not admit that (except to my closest friends). The scenarios are pretty catastrophical. But a part of me is glad that also rich privileged people will be affected. At least they will know how awful life can be. At the same time this is very shortsighted because poor people will suffer the most in the climate crisis. I think though I barely make a change on this topic. I think my carbon footprint is pretty low compared to other fellow Germans. I think I don't spend a lot of money for things and I am not owning much, furthermore I never travel. But I also don't have a guillty conscience to import something from China. Statistically 1% of the richest people have a carbon footprint compared to the Netherlands I once read. (it is a long time ago don't quote me on that I read it in a journal). My carbon footsprint is a complete joke in comparison.

I think for being that cynical I spend a little bit too much time into worrying about it. Lol.