Discussion What is the safe age to ctb?

[MEoDP]

I remember encountering this article a few months ago:
http://martin-manley.eprci.com/suicide_preface

Martin Manley,a guy decided to CTB but not for the common reasons people choose to do so. He did himself in at the age of 60,to avoid the eventual fate of having to live as a cripple in old age and possibly dying a painful/gruesome old-age related disease.

60 was Martin's chosen number. For an actually happy and successful person(who is not in a hurry to CTB like many here),what do you think is the generally safest number beyond that age to CTB before losing all bodily autonomy to old age? Assuming that person is putting in the fitness work necessary. I'm thinking 75 might be the latest age you can prolong. anything past that,and you risk eventually being crippled by old age and once that happens,you may no longer have the power to carry out your plans to CTB. (We all know how asinine the law in most places is about the right to die.)

 

[Deleted member 847]

My grandpa is 66 and he's relatively healthy. Living is like playing dice, you can get lucky or you can get paralyzed at 20.

 

[Wantingpeace]

60 seems quite young

 

[Deleted member 847]

60 seems quite young

yeah very young indeed

 

[MEoDP]

60 seems quite young

I honestly agree,that's why I made this thread. I feel 75 may be the best age to do so for a happy person to maximizing squeezing whatever happy moments that will come to follow in their life.

Of course,this isn't universally true of everyone,some may be prone to reach the "cripple stage" at an earlier time due to lifestyle,genetics,etc. so I'm only asking for a generalized number. Do you agree that 75 would be the best age?

 

[MEoDP]

My grandpa is 66 and he's relatively healthy. Living is like playing dice, you can get lucky or you can get paralyzed at 20.

There's definitely no denying the latter,but may I ask if your grandpa lives a healthy lifestyle? does he exercise,eat healthy meals,and all that usual stuff we know...

 

[Deleted member 847]

There's definitely no denying the latter,but may I ask if your grandpa lives a healthy lifestyle? does he exercise,eat healthy meals,and all that usual stuff we know...

No but he has a healthy social life thanks to the church he's in. Doesn't eat junk food.

 

[Nem]

Not certain if age has much to do with it. Circumstances play a much bigger role along with staying away from pharmaceutical medications as much as possible...most healthy people don't take them so not sure whether that's a coincidence or not.

 

[Wantingpeace]

I honestly agree,that's why I made this thread. I feel 75 may be the best age to do so for a happy person to maximizing squeezing whatever happy moments that will come to follow in their life.

Of course,this isn't universally true of everyone,some may be prone to reach the "cripple stage" at an earlier time due to lifestyle,genetics,etc. so I'm only asking for a generalized number. Do you agree that 75 would be the best age?

Really I just don't know. I have never considered any of this before an excruaciting conditoon came along. I was very pro life but felt each to their own if they wanted to end their life. Now I can see why someone might do this before they become incapacitated but saying that many people die extremely old and happy until their very last days so I don't know if I can agree universally on an age.

 

[setianism]

Genetics also play a good role here, 3 of my grandparents died before reaching the age of 65 because of natural causes

 

[MEoDP]

Really I just don't know. I have never considered any of this before an excruaciting conditoon came along. I was very pro life but felt each to their own if they wanted to end their life. Now I can see why someone might do this before they become incapacitated but saying that many people die extremely old and happy until their very last days so I don't know if I can agree universally on an age.

The real issue is that most laws refuse to respect/acknowledge the right to die. If you can afford to move to an area where that is not the case,such as Belgium,then chances are,this will not be an issue for that person. of course,not everyone can successfully achieve this.

I'm surprised to hear that you're pro-life.(unless you're referring to the distant past before you signed up here)
I suppose this primarily means that you're against abortion?

 

[Over n' Out]

75 is too old. A lot of things can get you before then. A neighbour had a stroke at 65, he was physically fit. The only lasting damage from the stroke was he went 100% blind. He had a wife that did everything for him for 10 years till he died of another one.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

I'm 34 and just had a stroke. Well I mean, it's a boring Sunday, what are you gonna do, you know?

In any case, I would probably operate on the basis of new symptoms/conditions that sprung up and made my life difficult. I wouldn't ctb pre-emptively on the basis of not having anything wrong with me, assuming health reasons were my primary concern.

 

[BaconCheeseburger]

Someone linked to that man's website a while back. Fascinating read and I fully commend him for the amount of time and effort he put into it.

 

[MEoDP]

Someone linked to that man's website a while back. Fascinating read and I fully commend him for the amount of time and effort he put into it.

Definitely. He's a role model for us on how seriously you should take preparations. He only made 1 attempt,and it was a complete success. (although you don't have to go as far as he did and make a site memorial. I also don't really like his method,a pistol through the head/mouth I believe. but he prepared so well that he placed himself in a location where he won't be rescued too soon.)

I honestly do believe he deserves a place at the Guinness Book of Records. Sadly,chances are he won't get the credit he deserves,we know how the shitty world refuses to acknowledge the Right to Die.

 

[Wantingpeace]

The real issue is that most laws refuse to respect/acknowledge the right to die. If you can afford to move to an area where that is not the case,such as Belgium,then chances are,this will not be an issue for that person. of course,not everyone can successfully achieve this.

Yes

I'm surprised to hear that you're pro-life.(unless you're referring to the distant past before you signed up here)
I suppose this primarily means that you're against abortion?

Oooh ok no no I'm for choice whether to live or die. I would explain more but can't find the words right now

 

[Final Escape]

Genetics also play a good role here, 3 of my grandparents died before reaching the age of 65 because of natural causes

My oldest relatives made it into 90's but being poorer and living under totally different conditions I highly doubt I could make it to that age but primarily due to poverty and not having had family or marrying well. If u did take care of your kids properly when young they are more likely to care for u in old age.

 

[MEoDP]

75 is too old. A lot of things can get you before then. A neighbour had a stroke at 65, he was physically fit. The only lasting damage from the stroke was he went 100% blind. He had a wife that did everything for him for 10 years till he died of another one.

True that. Perhaps your symptoms(any permanent diseases/complications you've picked up),your life circumstances(Martin Manley's insurance was about going to expire on the exact day of his attempt,I believe),and how you feel throughout the days are better indicators than your age number.

 

[Trashcan]

It depends on who you ask. I would think even if I were fit and ate healthily, by 30. But lots of people would agree more with you.

 

[MEoDP]

My oldest relatives made it into 90's but being poorer and living under totally different conditions I highly doubt I could make it to that age but primarily due to poverty and not having had family or marrying well. If u did take care of your kids properly when young they are more likely to care for u in old age.

Yeah,its not just age and your physical health. your life circumstances is a very important factor as well,perhaps just as important.

I sincerely don't believe in having kids just for the sake of having someone to care for you at old age. not only is this not really guaranteed(you could screw up raising them),but I find it unethical as well. (your kids are people with dreams too.)

I consider CTB a far more ethical old-age plan than forcing people into existence just to care for you.

 

[Final Escape]

Yeah,its not just age and your physical health. your life circumstances is a very important factor as well,perhaps just as important.

I sincerely don't believe in having kids just for the sake of having someone to care for you at old age. not only is this not really guaranteed(you could screw up raising them),but I find it unethical as well. (your kids are people with dreams too.)

I consider CTB a far more ethical old-age plan than forcing people into existence just to care for you.

Believe it or not before the government got involved a primary motive for kids was to have help in old age and it was economically beneficial rather than the drain it is now. So it actually worked out quite well because it's way nicer to have your own family helping u out in old age than strangers who don't give a shit. Then you're surrounded by family and grand kids in old age instead of a lonely sad old age in a nursing home w strangers who aren't even related to u. Of course when it became more difficult for families to stay in one area for employment for example, this broke down the comfort and security provided by the extended family. Your aging parents could also help with baby sitting which then takes away that cost and sometimes the danger out of leaving your kids with strangers who will not care for them as someone who is related.

 

[MEoDP]

I'm 34 and just had a stroke. Well I mean, it's a boring Sunday, what are you gonna do, you know?

In any case, I would probably operate on the basis of new symptoms/conditions that sprung up and made my life difficult. I wouldn't ctb pre-emptively on the basis of not having anything wrong with me, assuming health reasons were my primary concern.

But I think it would at least be a good idea to start taking serious caution once you're 75 years old,even if you're seemingly in good or perfect health. If you're beginning to feel that something isn't right(maybe you have more trouble moving than before,or whatever...),that may be warning signs that shouldn't be ignored.

 

[MEoDP]

Believe it or not before the government got involved a primary motive for kids was to have help in old age and it was economically beneficial rather than the drain it is now. So it actually worked out quite well because it's way nicer to have your own family helping u out in old age than strangers who don't give a shit. Then you're surrounded by family and grand kids in old age instead of a lonely sad old age in a nursing home w strangers who aren't even related to u. Of course when it became more difficult for families to stay in one area for employment for example, this broke down the comfort and security provided by the extended family.

Yup,I'm aware of that. Funny but insightful video that points it out:

 

[Perdition]

75 sounds about right. I work with people in their nineties and they're usually miserable, falling apart at the seams, require many expensive surgeries and resources to keep them kicking around for a few more months. I can't help but find it absurd that our gov. finds money to keep these fossils alive for as long as possible but there is little to no funding for mental health for young people. To me, living into your 90s is selfish and grotesque. People who commit suicide are called selfish, cowardly but these people are celebrated... yikes

 

[Perdition]

Believe it or not before the government got involved a primary motive for kids was to have help in old age and it was economically beneficial rather than the drain it is now. So it actually worked out quite well because it's way nicer to have your own family helping u out in old age than strangers who don't give a shit. Then you're surrounded by family and grand kids in old age instead of a lonely sad old age in a nursing home w strangers who aren't even related to u. Of course when it became more difficult for families to stay in one area for employment for example, this broke down the comfort and security provided by the extended family. Your aging parents could also help with baby sitting which then takes away that cost and sometimes the danger out of leaving your kids with strangers who will not care for them as someone who is related.

I work in a nursing home and you'd be surprised how few visitors these people get despite usually having at least 3 children, many grandchildren and great grandchildren. They just dump them off here and expect total strangers to be compassionate for them. Having kids no longer ensures you will be looked after in old age, people either don't have the time or are unwilling to look after an ailing elderly relative anymore. I think part of the problem is that people are living way too long nowadays.

 

[MEoDP]

75 sounds about right. I work with people in their nineties and they're usually miserable, falling apart at the seams, require many expensive surgeries and resources to keep them kicking around for a few more months. I can't help but find it absurd that our gov. finds money to keep these fossils alive for as long as possible but there is little to no funding for mental health for young people. To me, living into your 90s is selfish and grotesque. People who commit suicide are called selfish, cowardly but these people are celebrated... yikes

Wasting resources just for the sake of forcing people who no longer have any quality of life whatsoever to keep on living. Indeed,even if the Govt doesn't give a fuck about morality,they'd save a whole lot on resources just by allowing the right to die for the elderly. (I believe it should be available to everyone,but from a purely selfish and utilitarian perspective of the Govt,you can't allow young workers the right to opt out.)

 

[MEoDP]

I work in a nursing home and you'd be surprised how few visitors these people get despite usually having at least 3 children, many grandchildren and great grandchildren. They just dump them off here and expect total strangers to be compassionate for them. Having kids no longer ensures you will be looked after in old age, people either don't have the time or are unwilling to look after an ailing elderly relative anymore. I think part of the problem is that people are living way too long nowadays.

Precisely! You are far better off saving for retirement(which won't be as hard if you aren't having children to take care of. its amazing how much of a financial drain having children are)or failing that,saving so you have the resources to CTB in your old age are much wiser(not to mention,ethical) choices.

I'm damn astonished at so many of the people I know having kids. I know poor people who used to work with my family who have now decided to get into a relationship and have kids,ensuring that they are forever trapped in poverty. Its absurd because a lot of these people are getting into relationships to escape the shitty cards they were dealt with in life. (Love can be real soothing in these times,you have to admit)

That plan would actually work(to some extent)if they chose to be responsible and not end up popping out kids,but because they do the latter,they are instead just making their situation worse.

 

[MEoDP]

Now,if you'll excuse me,I really must sleep. I've got to attend school tomorrow. Good night,everyone.