Thank you for the response. Let me first say just to set the tone that I'm not approaching our exchange as an argument or debate, but rather as a conversation.
Likewise. Just a friendly conversation.
1. I think we are having some kind of semantic disagreement - my assertion is that these are feelings, not philosophical positions. You can use philosophy to justify or rationalize those feelings, but the feelings themself are not "philosophical" in nature. If a person can't find meaning in the world it isn't because of a philosophical question, anymore than you need philosophy to find "meaning" in the world. Feelings, such as the search for meaning, can be influenced or rationalized by philosophy, but the feelings themselves are not inherently philosophical.
I disagree. Feelings can be triggered by thought.
While finding no meaning in life doesn't necessarily have to start with a philosophical question, it can.
It can also come from a growing disillusionment with everyday life over time. A growing 'feeling' of disillusionment, I guess.
But it can also come from one of the main philosophical questions to do with life: "does life have any meaning?"
2. Life is absurd in nature - to say that it is meaningless is again to fall victim to a kind of semantic trap - meaning is not a characteristic of life, and it never could be. Meaning comes from the will and our desires - when we feel ourselves being pulled by those inherent urges the world is coloured by them and we create meaning only in the context of our own will.
Saying life is meaningless is just a rational way of looking at life.
The need for meaning comes from a human need or desire.
I agree that we create our own meaning.
3. I've had personal experience with depression and suicidal thoughts, as well as with family members who have experienced illness that they expressed they wished to induce death to avoid experiencing. One of those family members also worked in the healthcare profession and witnessed first hand pain and suffering that evidently caused them to give these issues great consideration. They enjoyed their life, but deeply feared being unable to escape it while suffering from a debilitating pain and loss of their mind. Recovering from my own mental health issues as well as solidarity with my loved ones who deserved the right to death are the two converging issues that inform my desire to participate here. These experiences have caused me to think about these issues quite a bit, and I want to share and learn from others who are stakeholders in these issues.
I was just wondering out of curiosity why you were on this site if you enjoyed life. Your reason for contributing on here is perfectly valid.
4. Cheers
5. Yes it certainly is not easy - in fact depression can be one of the most difficult afflictions to overcome, especially when it's severe and/or accompanied by hard conditions in a person's life. It's a very complex issue but I was trying to boil it down to the simplest form of the idea.
Some people are depressed because of the material conditions of their life - this can be so difficult because the depression makes it harder to change those conditions, and often even without the depression the cards can be stacked against us. This is a kind of depression that you might call realist depression - they are depressed because the world they live in is depressing. Some people are depressed because the world they lived in was depressing, and now it's a bit better but their psychological state hasn't adjusted. And still some people really have a lot going for them in life, but they are afflicted with depression because of a physiological condition (this one I would argue is actually pretty rare - usually people are depressed for a reason).
In any case - even when the depression is a symptom of the depressed world that the person lives in - the depression itself is a subjective experience - it's a "mental disorder" and this is backed up by modern biology and advancing medical studies.
Life is a subjective experience.
Depression isn't always a mental disorder. Sometimes it can be a rational response to life. To our mortality, and like I said earlier, to life's meaninglessness.
And I just want to make sure this clear because I think that while depression often causes people to report the world more accurately, I also believe that it clouds judgement in some equal and opposite ways. I think one of the issues is that we have medicalized mental health issues and created a system that tries to use drugs for example as a band-aid. In reality the vast majority of these problems are caused by "problems in living" - the actual lives of people (Thomas S. Szasz).
Problems in the living? As in life itself? Yeah, that's what I'm referring to.
And yes I really feel for all of the people who have exhausted all of their options. There are many here who I have read from and they give accounts that paint exactly that picture. Even for those people, and for all the people who still have options remaining, I just want to try to provide something like a sober and honest account of the facts - not one characterized by the influence of depression or resignment, and equally not one characterized by societies irrational fear of allowing people autonomy over their own life or death.
"An honest account of the facts" can only ever be your subjective view of things.
Thank you this was a very in depth and thought out reply! I appreciate it! :)
I enjoy most things in life. However, I don't have any interest in doing the things I enjoy for so many more years. I feel life is kinda lived out. I don't care to continue doing things I enjoy because they're no longer interesting. I don't see anything that could fill the gap of something interesting out there. And having to work and deal with the pains of life is not worth doing things that I feel aren't enjoyable/interesting enough in exchange. I'd just rather go into whatever death is and call it early. Whether better/worse I am content with choosing it over life.
I guess if you're still getting some enjoyment out of life, why not continue to do so until you no longer get
any enjoyment out of it? The only real measurement of a "good" life is if you are enjoying it or not.
I believe that my "will" to do things in life is still present. However, I believe that my will to do things is weak. I think there's nothing left in life that I am interested in enough to the point that I would choose it over death.
...I've never really had trouble in life. I am well off when it comes to finance, intelligence, opprotunity, position, fitness, attractiveness etc. I live my life in a very healthy way. I am physically and socially active and tend to have a very optimistic view on life. I have many friends and could find someone to date incredibly easy. I go on walks to simply "enjoy the day" all the time. Enjoy sunsets. Enjoy company. And live a pretty "normal" lifestyle. I just have a strong suicidal desire compared to most in my position.
I get what you're saying that your will to do things in life is weak. But maybe if you are still getting enjoyment from it, like you mention above, it might be worth sticking around longer until all of that is totally gone?
But obviously only you can truly know for sure.
