Discussion What are your opinions on incels? (The non-violent ones)

[John Ryder]

Well we're talking about male incels so that's why...and yeh it's probably an epidemic that affects both sexes but I'm just responding to the fact SO many men these days seem to struggle socially. Maybe they just talk about it more online than women IDK. Obviously it's still not the majority of men who are out there dating and in relationships but it does seem to be becoming more common to see men struggle to have any success with women.

This, probably. But yeah "it be that way" for sure

 

[xXAJBXx]

I remember when I first took the incel label.

I was in (and still am unfortunately) an absolute state of sheer loneliness, despair, and yearning. I looked around online a bit for a community of people who shared the same plight as me. I mean hell, there was no possible way I was the only one feeling like this, was there?

The term kept coming up again and again. "Incel" "incel" "incel". From what my dumbass could figure out from a few simple Google searches, it sounded about right for what I thought I needed, or at least the closest I could find.

Managing to somehow be completely blind to all of the negative associations / connotation linked to them, I joined an incel forum...

I was banned two days after for saying that a woman being r*ped was not a (and i quote) "W" for male kind....

In a world that glamorize long lasting, emotionally investing and loving healthy relationships on one hand and the carpe diem, lust driven hookup culture on the other. Its a confusing landscape that frankly some people aren't able to walk.

All humans have a primal/subconscious/ingrained/ whatever the fuck its called motivation to survive and reproduce, attempting to reach as much self fulfillment as they deem possible/necessary in the meantime.

These both involve meeting some level of sexual/intimacy need. And not meeting those can leave a person to subconsciously feeling hopeless, lost, stuck, and a whole bunch of other not good feelings...

...Feelings that just make CTB seem like the most enticing option.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Like other people have said, I feel so sad for people who are lonely. Feeling like you can't connect to this world is absolutely a reason to make you feel like you don't want to be here.

I've probably had the equivalent of female incel thoughts in the past. That this world was biased towards attractive, thin, girly women. I probably developed a mistrust of men quite early on. I'm not so sure I got as far as hating men though. I just saw them as being out of my league. I think that's maybe the difference though- male incels (maybe not all) seem to feel entitled.

I think it is the expectation and then resentment part I find difficult to warm to with the male incel population. Basically- no ones owes anyone anything. It's natural to feel unhappy when you feel like you don't fit in and people shun you. I think it is ok to criticize the culture that influences the world to be like this. BUT there is a lot of resentment and hatred towards actual women with incels. No one (and women in particular) is REALLY going to warm to someone and feel sorry for them when they sense that that person feels resentment towards them.

 

[ChronicPain23]

I think that these definitions of the word "incel" have been heavily changed over the past few years.
In the beginning it meant a men who is involuntarily celibate, just that.
As of today, involuntary celibacy+misogyny+mental disorder(posing a threat to society). That women are guilty of incel sex is already total craziness and that's what total retards think.


I don't know what to call myself if I'm unattractive, can't talk to women thus not having sex? Am I an incel?

However, to women(regardless of appearance)someone often comes forward when it comes to sex, companionship, intimacy. A man if he is not attractive has a very hard time when it comes to the things mentioned above.

 

[Holu]

IMO incel is a bad word to use, since it's generally negative and doesn't really just mean "involuntary celebrate" anymore. In a speech to the U.N. as U.N. Ambassador for women, Emma Watson said something along the lines of, "modern feminism has become synonymous with man hating. In the same way, I believe the term incel has become synonymous with female hating, and as such, would recommend to be cautious if you're choosing to identify with that group. That being said there are definitely valid critiques regarding the two main genders. There very much are legal, cultural, and societal inequalities, and it's not surprising that it frustrates so many. I just personally dislike anyone who actively attacks, harms, harasses, or uses their belief to slander random women. I also think that it's all too common for both male and female "incels" to take an aggressive stance in which they essentially generalize all women, such as when they comment on how "women empowerment has all women feeling like goddesses" when in reality most studies around show show the opposite where the majority of women didn't feel beautiful. Ultimately, I just wish "incels" would take a second to stop focusing on women, and start looking to focus on gender equality.

 

[stage4johnny]

I'm refferring to the Incels that are described as (mostly) men that have experienced intense loneliness, which includes, but not limited to.

• No friendships
• No friend/experience with women in general (including Not having a girlfriend in their entire life).
• Touch starvation or even being starved from empathy.

Basically Outcasts from society that have been ignored since the beginning of their lives (Or a big part of them)
Do you guys think its valid people like them are starting to feel like committing CBT?

(Again, I'm not refferring to the violent, mean, popular-idea of incels)

I dont think you should ctb. This may sound dumb,I realize,but you should keep trying to find a connection. Or find success in some way. You are good. You should get some good out of life,even if it's not all u want it to be. I am not a wise person,( you can take that to the bank!) just trying to help.

 

[busybee]

If they want to ctb it is their choice. Lonelyness is hard to endure either way.
I am just very confused about the ones that are out there trying to date in odd ways. To be fair that also goes for people on the other end of the spectrum dating wise.
One side is "Oh come on I know it is 11 pm but we can just meet half an hour ;) Don't you wanna fuck? No? That's a lie you were flirting, come on now" and the other side is "we just met yesterday but I already crave hearing your voice please meet me today- oh you are busy? You are such a social cripple!"
(real life examples from my personal experience)
My general conclusion for many years was that men just do be like that. Made me open my dating profiles to women lol

 

[Archness]

Incel as a term certainly transformed over the years.
It's an ideology that turns self-hatred and loathing into hatred of others, especially women, who "deprive" them of sex and intimacy, and need to be, let's say "strongly encouraged" to give the goods.
It also seemingly provides all the answers to why they're lonely, whether it's right, wrong, or in-between

More importantly, it aligns with the all too common experience of always loosing the game of life.

Sex/love/intimacy isn't the only problem you'd need to have to get into incel-ideology, but it's often the most dominant/painful (loneliness). It's also easy to falsely think everything else would fall into place if the sex-problem was fixed; making many over-focus on the lack of intimacy and thus align with the incel-ideology.

Men are also more easily categorized as worthless-losers. If people will call you an incell anyways for being low-value, you might as well start to adopt it as an identity.

While it can be somewhat understandable why men who've become outcasts of society, and can't get the great-signifier of success for a man (SEX!) join the incel ideology, it DOES NOT excuse the hatred, misogyny, racism, and every other horrid thing about the incel community. It's a destructive path, for oneself and/or maybe others.

 

[psp3000]

I find them interesting and very observable although most that I have observed were alarming, violent, or had questionable morals

I just observe them and research them to help or try to understand men's mental health / why men's mental health is very bad at the moment

and also to understand their struggles and perspectives

although I do not always agree but I always try to listen and read to see why they think or believe the things they do or see the world the way they do

rather than generalizing or making assumptions based on the majority of the violent ones

along with my bad experiences with men who either had the same traits but didn't identify as such or didn't have those traits at all nor identified as such

I don't know and I am unsure if I will ever understand but I have interviewed/had a conversation with a former incel

 

[FeyB]

I am not an incel by definition but I lurk around the italian community of incel.

Incel as involuntary celibate at the core, aren't in any way dangerous and are just lonly people who, most often than not, are very bad or unable to communicate with others. Incels in this situation might be hikkikomori or people who never expressed hate towards others and live normal life.

Unfortunetly, echo chamber created what is now more commonly refered as incel which I would rather describe with 2 aspects which almost always come togheter but not necesserly, i know personally some of them who think only one of the two:
-thinking that beauty is objective and things like bone structure or eye shapes are define the society we live in
-the right to have intimacy with the other sex, especially relationship even more than the act of sex
I agree with neither of the 2 but I won't ponder about it here.

The two aspects very often transform into hatred towards society and the other sex which is abnoxious especially the ladder.
Hate towards an entire group of people just because of their sex they born with is totally unjustifiable and I hate any form of it both online and in real life. I can't stand it at makes me very suicidal to see how much this shit is widespread. In Italy especially gender roles are still medival times and seeing people saying "its okay to hate fags" UNIRONICALLY makes me wanna cbt asap.
IMO the italian incel community especially, is full of degenerates, racist, and sexist (although again not saying all incel are like that) who fail to understand that themself, establishing objective beauty standards etx, ARE IGNITING THE PROBLEM.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't get in the way of their wish to cbt just because I don't agree with their reasonings.

 

[Amelie]

It's already been said above, but I think it would be ridiculous to hate all Incels just because the word is more commonly associated with rampant misogynists. Incels are people who are involuntarily celibate and that's it. Nothing to dislike or fear or vilify..

 

[wristcutangel]

i mean, it depends. self-identified incels are disgusting to me, personally for choosing to knowingly identify with a label with that sort of association to it. but someone that just happens to be extremely alone without any real choice of their isn't really harming anyone. although personally i wouldn't refer to them with that label myself, because again, connotations.

regarding wanting to ctb though, it's not really my, or anyones place to judge others reasons for wanting to commit.

 

[Rocinante]

Indifferent. They're most insufferable crowd on the internet, that much is certain. Don't care to hear from them, don't care to hear about them.
I don't know what non-violent means. Single virgin? Identifies as incel but doesn't frequent blackpill spaces?
Cant really make an argument for them considering if you go on their forum their posts will either be related to raping women and children, or race bait.
Most will never make any efforts to improve themselves, and instead be stuck in an endless loop of self loathing and projecting their problems onto others. I wonder how many actually aren't "incel" and instead got into blackpill spaces as a result of receiving little to no attention, thus having others convince themselves they're undesirable. Doing anything other than what they do, which is complain in their internet spaces, would benefit their circumstances.

it's sometimes hard to tell if their posts are satirical attempts at baiting or if theyre dead serious

The best way to enforce patriarchy is female genital mutilation without anesthesia.

If a man marries a woman, he may simp to her by trying to make her orgasm, and this can also include eating her out. The only orgasm that matters is a man's orgasm, since that is necessary for reproduction. A woman's sexual pleasure is at best frivilous, at worst something she can shame her man...

incels.is

 

[Mndcntrl]

It doesnt matter what a person are: Everyone has the right too commit cbd. For some people like the hard incels some people describe here I would pay that they do it (people like Andrew Tate...)!
To your other question what I think over this people: the "normal friendly version" you describe in the opening are just "normal" extrem lonely dudes. For the hard incels there some other desribe here I cant find any word I could write whitout risking a bann. That should say everything what I think over them.

 

[odradek]

To anyone who self-identifies as non-violent, I'd say don't self-identify as an incel. You don't have to identify with this term. It's not a requirement for legitimate loneliness.

The incel ideology itself is a cancer in our society. The individual adherents? They can change their views and I will be the first to welcome them to the side of sanity. (well maybe not the first, but you get my drift) Those who will not or cannot change? I'm sorry, that's a rough life you have chosen. No one is going to like you except people who are already like you. That is legitimate misery, no argument from me.

To those appealing to pedantry, it's doesn't matter the origin of the word, what matters is it's meaning in its current context. That context is undeniably hateful, misogynistic, and sometimes violently so.

For example a lot of these guys sometimes identify as "nice" guys. Let's take a look at the origin of the word "nice":

Nice, it turns out, began as a negative term derived from the Latin nescius, meaning "unaware, ignorant." This sense of "ignorant" was carried over into English when the word was first borrowed (via French) in the early 1300s. And for almost a century, nice was used to characterize a "stupid, ignorant, or foolish" person.

Are these guys unintentionally telling on themselves or is a word's origin irrelevant to its present context?

Just don't identify or associate with the term. You don't have to. Empathy is for those whose worldview is not fundamentally opposed to the concept.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

It's interesting when I watch their videos because in virtually every instance I can point out a number of things they could change fairly readily which I just know would help them, socially. Our world is incredibly shallow, and as humans we respond to so many things instinctually. And so if a receptive incel has a few pointers that they actually implement then I often feel quite sure they can at least get more of a foot in the door, in many instances.

A few things I observe often:

- Very poor emotional control. This is a big one. These guys often have so much pent-up rage and frustration that it takes virtually nothing for them to implode. It also means they have very little resilience when it comes to the next (inevitable) rejection.

- Shoddy appearance. I see a lot of awful facial hair, raggedy clothing, poor weight management etc.

- Lack of accountability. These guys tend to shift the blame from themselves onto everyone around them, for a whole multitude of reasons. They're blaming other people's responses rather than looking at what they can do themselves.

Ultimately I do feel bad for incels, but there is typically room for improvement. I agree with not self-identifying as one where possible. The connotation is enough to put many people off.

 

[Bobbylobby]

While I feel a bit bad for them and am extremely sympathetic towards the touch starved/neglected part of it. I also see it as them not taking care of themselves and making no effort to even talk to women

 

[sick.faery]

i think identifying with that label is retarded. if you cant get a gf, or sex, do yourself a service and never identify with that community. most of what they believe it twisted and really strange, and will probably hold you back in life and keep you from fixing your problem. anyways you dont need to be chad to get laid, most dudes are bland as fuck and get laid and get gfs. even most chunky or slightly bad looking guys get laid and gfs. the guys who cant get that its usually cos they're scared of girls and are loners with bad social skills. unless you look like a freak you're not a true 'incel'

 

[SexyIncél]

My bad on posting this, i was expecting some empathy but that's on me, i won't make the same mistake again, thank you all for your answers.

Sorry! I joined in the derailing

Yeah, as much as we can improve at supporting lonely guys, at least we're better than before. I really was traumatized when people cruelly piled on a suicidal asian guy. His parents moved to the UK, and he got homesick & wanted an asian girl

He never returned, who knows if he ctb'd. Or now posts on incels.is, haha. He didn't self-identify as an incel. But the word "chad" was enough provocation to bully him. Because it's socially ok to bully supposedly weak men — and it's open season on anyone you can call an incel

(After all, we don't bully liberal feminists, though they're always supporting hyper-violent people: one, two)

It's funny, I help girls get guys, despite their strange ethnic or other obsessions. Real talk: irl girls virtue-signal waaaay less than online ones. A good female friend of mine advises guys to get:

• the porsche
• the shoes
• the rolex

She says yeah, you'll get the gold diggers. But you're just building a supply of them — including their social connections. Sooner or later, one of them's gonna have a virtuous friend worth loving. And after giggling, maybe Aristotle would agree

So, yeah, I don't know online places where lonely men get great empathy & serious help

 

[Konnsz]

Sorry! I joined in the derailing

Yeah, as much as we can improve at supporting lonely guys, at least we're better than before. I really was traumatized when people cruelly piled on a suicidal asian guy. His parents moved to the UK, and he got homesick & wanted an asian girl

He never returned, who knows if he ctb'd. Or now posts on incels.is, haha. He didn't self-identify as an incel. But the word "chad" was enough provocation to bully him. Because it's socially ok to bully supposedly weak men — and it's open season on anyone you can call an incel

(After all, we don't bully liberal feminists, though they're always supporting hyper-violent people: one, two)

It's funny, I help girls get guys, despite their strange ethnic or other obsessions. Real talk: irl girls virtue-signal waaaay less than online ones. A good female friend of mine advises guys to get:

• the porsche
• the shoes
• the rolex

She says yeah, you'll get the gold diggers. But you're just building a supply of them — including their social connections. Sooner or later, one of them's gonna have a virtuous friend worth loving. And after giggling, maybe Aristotle would agree

So, yeah, I don't know online places where lonely men get great empathy & serious help

I really, REALLY appreciate your response, I felt a little of empathy and i was not alone in the feeling on lonely men not getting empathy in general.

i think this post greatly represents that idea.

Several times I emphasized I didnt meant the popularized type of incels, I was meaning the ACTUAl definition of involuntary celibate, and still people refused to even listen and started bashing on the hateful ones, generalizing, as usual on the internet

 

[leloyon]

I think a lot of people don't understand incels but pretend they do.
Incels often don't care about sex but about relationships, and most are more angry towards society and the cards they have been dealt in life (ugliness, short height, mental illness etc.) rather than women per se.
I don't think a lot of them feel entitled to anything, they're frustrated that they've been rendered unable to be loved by another person (one of the most commonly desired things, as well as third on the pyramid of needs just outside of basic needs, some would even call it the reason to live) due to circumstances outside of their control.
Also, Andrew Tate isn't an incel and many dislike him. He preaches that men just have to be confident and do this and that (the red pill) while incels say that doesn't matter if you're not born desirable to begin with (the black pill).

 

[Adûnâi]

A few things I observe often:

- Very poor emotional control. This is a big one. These guys often have so much pent-up rage and frustration that it takes virtually nothing for them to implode. It also means they have very little resilience when it comes to the next (inevitable) rejection.

- Shoddy appearance. I see a lot of awful facial hair, raggedy clothing, poor weight management etc.

- Lack of accountability. These guys tend to shift the blame from themselves onto everyone around them, for a whole multitude of reasons. They're blaming other people's responses rather than looking at what they can do themselves.

I'm reserved, wear my autistic formal shirt, and I've read this comment to check what I could do better. I have not talked to anyone in my life aside from my mom and teachers during classes, I'm a 27 year-old Ukrainian, and I have no idea where even to start. Creeping on females in libraries? In the park? Joining dancing classes? Zero clue.

 

[Disappointered]

I think it would be a win-win for all stakeholders to place Sarco pods in the nightclub districts. That way the loser males who realized that they will never be validated as proper men and will live as disrespected rejects can just check out of life at the end of another sad night. It would also significantly reduce the frequency of mass murders.

In the morning, a lot of these males will have lost the full effect of the "suicidefuel". That's why placing the Sarco right outside the club would be ideal.

If mods think this post reflects badly on the forum I have no problem with it being removed. I just think life shouldn't have to be an 80 year misery sentence and since most incels won't get better it is actually more humane to have Sarcos (or a similar device) outside of clubs.

 

[Adûnâi]

I think it would be a win-win for all stakeholders to place Sarco pods in the nightclub districts. That way the loser males who realized that they will never be validated as proper men and will live as disrespected rejects can just check out of life at the end of another sad night. It would also significantly reduce the frequency of mass murders.

In the morning, a lot of these males will have lost the full effect of the "suicidefuel". That's why placing the Sarco right outside the club would be ideal.

If mods think this post reflects badly on the forum I have no problem with it being removed. I just think life shouldn't have to be an 80 year misery sentence and since most incels won't get better it is actually more humane to have Sarcos (or a similar device) outside of clubs.

This is an ingenious idea, but overthought. After all, what you're arguing is an easy availability of suicide - and that is my idea as well.

On the other hand, I would argue for the abolition of night clubs and dating culture overall - along with free love. If males have a proper way to get married, everyone will be happier. And only then the _real_ losers (or sensible thinkers) will choose suicide - and the state will only win out.

 

[Disappointered]

This is an ingenious idea, but overthought. After all, what you're arguing is an easy availability of suicide - and that is my idea as well.

On the other hand, I would argue for the abolition of night clubs and dating culture overall - along with free love. If males have a proper way to get married, everyone will be happier. And only then the _real_ losers (or sensible thinkers) will choose suicide - and the state will only win out.

I'm hesitant to support such a radical suggestion but I suspect it would indeed improve the situation.

Banning free love would be difficult to achieve though, especially at the stage we're at now. The less appealing men might still not find happiness or their wives (if they find any) might end up cheating on them or also being miserable. That could prolong the suffering whereas leaving humanity with it's chosen vices + suicide pods for those not owed full distribution of resources necessary to a good quality of life who fail to secure it in the marketplace will be propelled to terminate themselves. It's hard to go back once we've opened Pandora's box. Your idea might work though, I'm really just thinking out loud.

 

[Adûnâi]

who fail to secure it in the marketplace will be propelled to terminate themselves.

The issue is that the hookup culture is a weird American thing, not a predestined given. No nightclubs in the USSR, or the DPRK. That reality is possible. The dating space is ridiculously degenerate, female sexual tastes are caveman-tier, and I would rather have a social credit score where good party officials have access to government-mandated ~~catgirls~~ I mean, waifus.

 

[WonderingSoul]

I know exactly what you are talking about. The people you are describing aren't bad at all, they are just very lonely. However, due to the way the term 'incel' has changed from what it once was, it often gets mixed with misogynistic men. I think some people in this thread had the wrong idea but it's understandable. Honestly OP, I think you should've just typed intensely lonely men instead of incels because nowadays people WILL get the wrong idea if you use the word 'incel' to describe innocent lonely men who aren't hateful at all.

If you are generally been lonely or betrayed most of your life and wish no harm on anyone else, then you have my empathy. I'm sorry life has lead you down this path. My dm is open to anyone who wants to talk or vent.

 

[noSuffering]

Real talk: irl girls virtue-signal waaaay less than online ones. A good female friend of mine advises guys to get:

• the porsche
• the shoes
• the rolex

She says yeah, you'll get the gold diggers. But you're just building a supply of them — including their social connections. Sooner or later, one of them's gonna have a virtuous friend worth loving.

A long time ago, I was sitting in a cafe with several people (oh horror, because there were times when I talked IRL with people and went to the cafe o_O), one girl there said that "the ideal man is a hybrid of a vibrator and an ATM"

 

[daocreator]

I'm refferring to the Incels that are described as (mostly) men that have experienced intense loneliness, which includes, but not limited to.

• No friendships
• No friend/experience with women in general (including Not having a girlfriend in their entire life).
• Touch starvation or even being starved from empathy.

Basically Outcasts from society that have been ignored since the beginning of their lives (Or a big part of them)
Do you guys think its valid people like them are starting to feel like committing CBT?

(Again, I'm not refferring to the violent, mean, popular-idea of incels)

While I do, kinda relate to what an 'incel' means, I don't think just having no relationships and no friends makes you an active opposite gender hater.

That would have to be an ideology brought with them on their upbringing, through the internet.

I am sure that most of them aren't even that bad but just are that way because they love that feeling of validation among them and just seek no way to better themselves; keeping them in that same, neverending loop of no self improvement.

I do think that not having friendships, with the opposite gender or same gender, shouldn't be associated with them. Since that's just loneliness, or incapability to hold onto a proper friendship.

Of course, just because someone hadn't been on a relationship in their entire lives doesn't mean they can't throughout it. Society wouldn't really care much about looks nowadays, since for sure you'd be able to get one if you were at a stable point on your life some day. But that's just not the subject we're talking about, so I'll end this with confirming that not belonging on any group of society doesn't mean you're "the one out". You're inconsequential among the many humans on Earth, so don't consider yourself special in society in general. But that wouldn't mean you can never be someone's special person.

 

[Disappointered]

The issue is that the hookup culture is a weird American thing, not a predestined given. No nightclubs in the USSR, or the DPRK. That reality is possible. The dating space is ridiculously degenerate, female sexual tastes are caveman-tier, and I would rather have a social credit score where good party officials have access to government-mandated ~~catgirls~~ I mean, waifus.

True but the USSR crumbled and a lot of the people there, like a lot of Cubans, were in a non-stop state of frustrated seduction, in love with the idea of the materialistic free love marketplace of "the west". I'm not very familiar with North Korea but from the little I've seen the people do seem happy. They are a very homogeneous population and I suspect that is actually why they are healthier and happier. But outside of that scenario...with all the "pluralism"? I think everything has been ruined.