Venting Too many pro lifers on here

[Source Energy]

I totally agree with supporting one's choices.
I only feel that the slightest encouragement toward recovery is heavily frown upon.
Let's not be the reverse of r/suicidewatch. I saw one of the posters I follow attacked a lot just for daring to consider all options.
As I said...not all situations are without hope. Mine is. Yours might be. But some users are in recovery, and they came here wanting to ctb. There is no one-size-fits-all
Let's keep and open mind. Attacking each other would turn this into reddit. We are all already in a lot of pain.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I totally agree with supporting one's choices.
I only feel that the slightest encouragement toward recovery is heavily frown upon.
Let's not be the reverse of r/suicidewatch. I saw one of the posters I follow attacked a lot just for daring to consider all options.
As I said...not all situations are without hope. Mine is. Yours might be. But some users are in recovery, and they came here wanting to ctb. There is no one-size-fits-all
Let's keep and open mind. Attacking each other would turn this into reddit. We are all already in a lot of pain.

It is only frowned upon when the post blatantly implies one doesnt want to recover, or there is a hint at a bias towards no recovery from the poster.

On your point about not all situations being without hope, there are a few problems with this.
1. There are some people who "can" recover/cope, but don't want to. They have decided that the net gain from coping isn't worth it (which is why they are here in the first place). It is true that not everyone here (in the suicide discussion section) have impossible circumstances, BUT some do not want recovery if it means coping and living below standard lives.

2. The users that are in recovery are in the recovery section, and not this section for a reason. I am sure you would not like it if some pro lifer tried to offer you the same ol tired rhetoric, so why do a disservice to people who post in this (specific section) and do it yourself?

3. It is not your job to judge who's life is worth salvaging and who's cannot. That is completely up to the beholder to decide. And if they have even the slightest doubt about their life being unsalvagable, I am sure they will indicate interest in advice.

Usually when someone is hell bent on CTBing, but they insist on trying to solve other people's problems, they use the individual as a surrogate to make up for the fact that they lost control of their own life. I get it, being in a lonely and dark place sucks and we don't want other people to feel that way. However, we should also realize how shitty it might be to offer unsolicited advice since we ourselves wouldn't want it.

You cannot solve everyone's problems, nor can you understand the extent of their problems without being in their shoes. It is something that you need to accept. If you want to pat yourself on the back, help the people in the recovery section speed up their recovery.

 

[SamTam33]

It also doesn't help when people offer their generic advice like, "You are loved" and the OP responds by thanking them for their kind words...

It's not intentional, but it encourages them to keep doing it IMO.

I understand the natural desire to thank someone for saying something nice, but it's like feeding a stray cat.

Feed them (or give them positive reinforcements) and they keep coming back.

 

[Noi]

I totally agree with supporting one's choices.
I only feel that the slightest encouragement toward recovery is heavily frown upon.
Let's not be the reverse of r/suicidewatch. I saw one of the posters I follow attacked a lot just for daring to consider all options.
As I said...not all situations are without hope. Mine is. Yours might be. But some users are in recovery, and they came here wanting to ctb. There is no one-size-fits-all
Let's keep and open mind. Attacking each other would turn this into reddit. We are all already in a lot of pain.

I'll speak for myself as I can't speak for others. My situation is not unfixable and never was. Yet there's a reason I too have found my way here. It's not really pain nor suffering but just tiredness. My main objection to living hasn't been that my life is particularly miserable for a long time. It's the overall pointlessness of the everyday struggle. I've followed about every advice I've ever gotten on how to get better yet with every milestone I hit, there's just more nothingness. I'm just tired of doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

 

[SamTam33]

This happened after the Ny times article before . And now Maybe more pro-lifers joined here cause of that video from that nothing youtuber. also maybe the DDOS attacks. I tried to warn people not to talk about that dumb video , link it , post threads about it cause it would make the video more popular because more people clicking it would make it rise in the youtube algorithm and the youtube algorithm would suggest it to others. . I still don't get why anyone would care what a youtuber says. .

You absolutely did. I remember. You were spot on.

 

[missingpeace]

I haven't come across that many, from the few that I've seen, the moment they express their pro-life opinions, someone shuts them up anyway

 

[BasqueClown]

Death is a taboo, and suicide is more taboo in society. So being pro life/pro recovery seems the good or the morally duty.
I was pro recovery too, but I desist after I realized that I don't have a reason to stay. The only thing who is retain me is my family to demonstrate I'm not crazy, but I'm not sure how long I'll handle it.
Sure, I want to being married, or to be a theatre writer, but I'm really tired of pills, my relapses, my psychotic episodes.
I think that pro lifers are here in order to being "comfortable" with their consciousness. As a kind of missionary duty. If someone is team recovery, cool, but don't shame others like you or me who decided to take our lives.

 

[TapeMachine]

When/if i make a goodbye thread on this forum, i'm going to explicitly request that people don't try and stop me out of respect. I have done everything in my power to get help. I've waited for so, so fucking long.

And yet, i doubt this would do anything. Even on goodbye threads i still see people pleading for them to consider stopping - even after the OP asked to not be stopped. It's honestly pretty disrespectful on this forum IMO.

I don't mind people suggesting recovery options- as long as its tasteful and specific to the thread. Not some broad bullshit like "get therapy, you aren't alone, you have family who cares for you" etc. We just don't know enough about someone here to make those kinds of comments.

It's when it's done in a persons last thread that really bothers me. This is meant to be a safe haven- let it be that way if they've already decided.

Yeah, I've highly considered not making a goodbye thread myself. In my final moments, I don't want to read a bunch of "it's not too late, but if you're sure...", "life could get better", etc like I've seen on many recent goodbye posts (especially when the OP has kindly asked for others not to suggest/plead that they reconsider ctb.) I don't know, it really does seem disrespectful..

 

[SexyIncél]

Let's not be the reverse of r/suicidewatch. I saw one of the posters I follow attacked a lot just for daring to consider all options.

Could you please share a link, so we can use it as a case study? If you think it'll cause fights, could you PM it to me?

I try to explore many options. Even yesterday overstepped into recovery-mode. (Then corrected myself.) But no one jumps on me

I have another case study where a pro-choicer acted pro-lifer. It's not about identity. It's about a certain way of acting that possesses us and creates toxic positivity, where we beat down people for not being smiley cult members. "Drink down the drugs," we say, "go to the secular priest and do confession therapy"

And take people who attack FuneralCry. Pro-lifers attempt to split us; if successful, they'll whittle us down further. But the ideas of pro-mortalists like FuneralCry are worth thousands of pro-lifers, because everyone knows pro-lifers' disneyfied worldview. I'm not pro-mortalist, but they deepen my understanding of suffering. Before them, I didn't realize that much life on this planet requires tearing each other apart -- or die of starvation in a few days

What if I went to the recovery forum and kept asking them to consider suicide?

 

[ZRA]

Could you please share a link, so we can use it as a case study? If you think it'll cause fights, could you PM it to me?

I try to explore many options. Even yesterday overstepped into recovery-mode. (Then corrected myself.) But no one jumps on me

I have another case study where a pro-choicer acted pro-lifer. It's not about identity. It's about a certain way of acting that possesses us and creates toxic positivity, where we beat down people for not being smiley cult members. "Drink down the drugs," we say, "go to the secular priest and do confession therapy"

And take people who attack FuneralCry. Pro-lifers attempt to split us; if successful, they'll whittle us down further. But the ideas of pro-mortalists like FuneralCry are worth thousands of pro-lifers, because everyone knows pro-lifers' disneyfied worldview. I'm not pro-mortalist, but they deepen my understanding of suffering. Before them, I didn't realize that much life on this planet requires tearing each other apart -- or die of starvation in a few days

What if I went to the recovery forum and kept asking them to consider suicide?

"Go to the secular priest and do confession therapy" - poetry.
I agree 100%, it's a programmed norm that is pretty much independent from conscious beliefs. Many people happen to fall ideologically in line with the pro-lifer uniform, but the philosophy is downstream of the shibboleth.
It's interesting to consider how this might have evolved, though. Certainly it can't be arbitrary, but it's hard to imagine it reappearing if people all suddenly lost this behavior at once. Do pro-lifers actually save any lives, in the meaningful way where it's not forced survival? Did they ever? I wonder if there was a time when these "you are loved" mantras didn't sound so hollow and saccharine. Back then, perhaps people were actually less likely to ctb if showered in affirmations. Now the pro-life dogma is thoroughly zombified, but there might once have been blood in its veins,

 

[Anonymus]

This is a delicate subject because the reasons why a person wants to commit suicide are as many as there are users in this forum. I for example, if I think I can help someone I try, I don't care if they are in recovery, in the Offtopic or in the suicide section, because sometimes I have met people who had a punctual crisis and the suicide was purely an impulsive act. Sometimes all it takes is a little bit of conversation to realize this.

And as to whether people get better, well, you never know, there are many people who do. When I went to high school there was everything and years later you would meet a classmate in the street that you didn't think would make it, he went from being hooked on drugs to working as a graphic designer in adulthood.
But there are also those who don't get better and die along the way, but it's not easy to know this when you're a teenager full of personal problems, so if I can help someone I'll try.

Other people I know from the forum are very clear about what they want and you share your day to day life with these users without any problem, there are people who don't need help to get better because they have simply decided to die and that's enough, with all legitimacy and a lot of respect from me.

I don't think there are pro-life users on the forum, because a pro-lifer does not advocate suicide under any circumstances. But if there are users with different views on suicide, there are radical positions, others more open to any line of thought ... in any case I'm here because I can not express myself freely about suicide with anyone outside this forum without getting into serious trouble and this helps me a lot to reflect freely ... and I appreciate it very much, really.

SaSu is a diverse community with many different ways of understanding suicide and that is very positive and healthy. Wanting to instate a particular line of thought or user will lose a lot of strength to the community as a whole. It is not good to reproach users for their attitude towards suicide just because they do not share the same thoughts as oneself.
We all defend, at least, that anyone can freely decide to end his or her life when he or she deems it necessary. Otherwise, any user should be free to give their point of view without being attacked by others. Not long ago there was a kind of public lynching against FuneralCry that I did not like at all and the same has happened with users opposed in thought to Funeral's.. there is like a kind of undeclared war that does no one any good .

We should not fight each other, let's respect each other and that's enough.

//

Aquest és un tema delicat ja que els motius per els quals una persona vol poder suïcidar-se son tants com usuaris té aquest fòrum. Jo per exemple si crec que puc ajudar algú ho intento, no m'importa si està a recuperació, a l'Offtopic o a la secció de suïcidi perquè de vegades m'he trobat amb persones que tenien una crisi puntual i el suïcidi era purament un acte impulsiu. De vegades només cal donar una mica de conversa per adonar-se d'això.

I sobre si la gent se'n surt, doncs ves a saber, hi ha molta gent que si. Quan anava a l'Institut hi havía de tot i anys més tard et trobaves algún company de classe pel carrer que no pensaves pas que s'en sortíría, de esta enganxat a les drogues a treballar de dissenyador gràfic a l'etapa adulta.
Però també hi ha que no s'en surten i moren pel camí, però no és pas fàcil de saber això quan ets un adolescent ple de problemes personals, així que si puc ajudar algú ho intento.

D'altres persones que conec del fòrum tenen molt clar el que volen i comparteixes el teu día a día amb aquests usuaris sense que hi hagi cap problema, hi ha gent que no necessita ajuda per ensortir-se'n perquè simplement ha decidit morir i prou, amb tota legitimitat i molt de respecte per part meva.

No crec que hi hagi usuaris pro-vida al fòrum, doncs un pro-vida no defensa el suïcidi sota cap concepte. Però si hi han usuaris amb punts de vista diferents sobre el suïcidi, hi han postures radicals, d'altres més obertes a qualsevol línia de pensament.. en tot cas jo sóc aquí perquè no puc expressar-me lliurement sobre el suïcidi amb ningú fora d'aquest fòrum sense posar-me en seriosos problemes i això m'ajuda molt a reflexionar lliurement.. i ho agraeixo molt, de debó.

SaSu és una comunitat diversa amb moltes maneres diferents d'entendre el suïcidi i això és molt positiu i sà. Voler instaurar una linía de pensament o usuari concret farà perdre molta força a la comunitat en el seu conjunt. No és bò retreure als usuaris la seva actitud cap el suïcidi només per no compartir els mateixos pensaments que un mateix.
Tots defenem, com a mínim, que qualsevol persona pugui decidir lliurement posar fi a la seva vida quan ho consideri necessari. Fora d'això, qualsevol usuari hauría de ser lliure de donar el seu punt de vista sense ser atacat pels altres. Fa poc temps va haver una espécie de linxament públic contra FuneralCry que no em va agradar gens i el mateix ha passat amb usuaris oposats en pensament al de Funeral.. hi ha com una espècie de guerra no declarada que no ens fa cap bé a ningú.

No em de lluïtar entre nosaltres, respectem-nos i prou.

 

[yive]

even in efilistic/antinatalistic communities there are plenty of ppl who say ugly platitudes like "suicide is selfish", "suicide is wrong", "you shouldn't commit suicide because of x, y, z", "your family will suffer", etc. i. e. anti-suicide bullshit. so this pro-life cancer is literally everywhere, and it's more than disappointing

 

[Disaster]

So, all responses, no matter the situation, should be "yes, go ahead and kill yourself asap"?
Sometimes when you read someone's story, you might want to suggest something first, especially if they have a family and have love in their lives.
If all avenues have been exhausted, and the pain is too great, then of course support that person's choice.
But it feels sometimes that any other kind of conversation is seen as a pro-lifer.
It is a forum - should be allowed to look at things from all angles. That doesn't invalidate anyone's feelings.
I'm as sad and suicidal as it gets, not a pro-lifer at all.
But not all lives are beyond fixing.

You missed the CHOICE part, either intentionally or because of the lack of basic literacy skills. If you're able to read and understand what you read, you could respect people enough to understand their words before responding.
I'm not a fan of anyone here telling anyone what they should do. Everyone here is supposed to be an adult and be able to make their decisions themselves.
"Suggesting other options" after being explicitly told not to is ignoring someone's boundaries. Unsolicited advice is criticism, it's telling other person that they just need to be told what to do by an internet stranger.
And how you dare suggest that, basically, lives of those who don't have relatives are worth less than ones who have family?
Would you like the quality of life to be measured sort of like credit score? Or just internet pro-lifers estimate it from the age and number of living relatives?
Now, I really dislike it that we see threads where people basically ask "is my life bad enough?" - but there, I guess, you're explicitly asked for your opinion, so if someone wants to be subjected to that, none of my business.
If someone asks how much Nutella to eat to overdose, or, on the other side of the spectrum, how to chop off ones own head with an axe, I'm not going to suggest reliable methods, because that's either a troll or a kid or both. I think we shouldn't give advice about reliable methods to people who don't read stuff here.
Each time you give unsolicited advice to someone, you suggest that you're superior to them. That they should just shut up and listen. This is not okay. If you're so pro-life, you could do something to make peoples lives actually better. You could help someone who actually asks for help and wants it. Yet I guess that wouldn't give such sense of superiority, if your behavior is for ego boosting. I hope you'll find some other way of proving to yourself that your life has a purpose. There are other things you could do to make this world actually better.

 

[not_good_enough]

i agree and i think its bcuz the public has been made aware of this site

 

[mistake22]

life has a story to tell death is the start of something we dont know hopefully a better story

 

[Reiter]

You're right man... Too many pro-lifers in this forum and they're kinda ruining it for me.