Time to Normalize giving up

[dust-in-the-wind]

I suffer from a severely crippling depressive disorder where I barely function and spend much time in bed.
Tried therapy, no less that 30 med/combos, ketamine and ECT. I'm to the point where I just get passed around now because I'm too difficult a case. I've been sent to the hospital when I express my desire to die. Even the hospital is out of options for me. Last stint had me doing arts and crafts and chair yoga..lol. Yet I still get told platitudes of things getting better. They are lying through their teeth. They all know I'm too far gone and my brain is obviously diseased with no cure. It's time to be honest with patients like me and normalize it being ok to give up without any shaming. Giving false hope is unethical. Who anyway is to judge if someone's life is worth living? I am already dead anyway and everyday is torture. Maybe some of you can relate to this post??

 

[SomewhatLoved]

I feel that modern human life is completely unnatural. Our ancestors lived entirely different lives from us. If I was born 1000 years ago I would have died at 15 years old from an infection on my hand. I failed to prevent it with hand hygiene, and if not for antibiotics and access to a physician I would have been unable to control it. Honestly I would have likely not even made it to that point given that perinatal and infant mortality rates were much much much higher than they are now, hygiene and knowledge of health was much poorer, quality of life and living conditions were worse, etc. People used to have dozens of kids because a lot wouldn't make it through birth, and even then a lot would die over the winters. Is suicide unnatural? I would say generally yes. It's not really proven that other animals can die by suicide, but humans do. We do in droves, it's consistently year after year in the top 20 ways people die around the world. However, our lives are entirely different from that of any other animal. No other animal has technology like us. No other animal manipulates nature like us. We circumvent death in ways that no other animal does. There is very little intraspecific competition among humans the same way there is in other animals, and even interspecific competition is negligible. Humans are pretty much unchallenged for our niche. We control our environment so well, that it is rare for people in most places in the world to even ever come face-to-face with an animal the same way our ancestors might have.

We live completely different and we die completely differently. Most animals die from injury or acute disease. Humans? Almost all of our leading causes of death have to do with chronic disease, aging, poor lifestyle...

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

I'm 56 years old with a lot of life before me. Aging and chronic diseases coming my way courtesy of genetics, feeds my depression. I don't understand how many people will do anything to stay alive. I don't want to live in a physically diseased body. Mental disease is brutal enough.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

i relate

it took me a while to find out many mental health suggestions aren't really that effective unless someone has short-term acute depression

there are countries where people have a right to die after trying options, where doctors will say "okay, it won't get better"

it also seems like psychiatry and psychology often emphasize big pharma drugs, "coping skills" (like arts and crafts, visualizing relaxing scenes, and journalism), and other more extreme interventions (ECT, psychosurgery, which they do less of now because it was starting to make them look bad). i think at the end of the day, money plays a big role of things, including getting patients to still be clients, in a sense

i sometimes wonder if these interventions (drug or electric interventions, small coping skills) aren't that helpful and people need more sort of almost structural changes to how they live life. By structural changes, I mean changing locations, changing jobs, finding a completely new set of experiences. but that may not do anything either

It's hard for me to read you consider your brain diseased because it's hard to know that's what's going. maybe we live in a horrible societal situation and anyone decent would be horribly depressed, but most people have adapted to become numb or hypocritical? to exist in society, most people are paying taxes, these taxes fund wars, death, torture in some situations; there are people on the street, miserable and suffering, and people just walk on by...; and society is completely indifferent to the fact that it continues to destroy the planet, with many believing in fake religions to help deal with the distress caused by a non-functional cruel society. What if you're the normal person and everyone else is fucked up?

i've read your posts on here. i can tell you are a smart person. what if you tried changing some of the most horrible things in society? would it help to try to change things in the world around you? but, i also don't know if that would help. it may be something that is epigenetic or genetic in nature in which you default happiness level is too low. most people have a baseline amount of happiness or unhappiness and tend to go back toward that midpoint. Then again, a lot of how people experience the world and exist and a lot of human health is influenced by epigenetics, which responds to changes in the environment.

Most likely none of this is helpful, but it's hard to know. I've read your posts and sense your intelligence, so anything I've thought of you may have already thought of too. Maybe normalizing giving is a form of changing the world? But really, to normalize it requires a desire for political change, not just cultural change. It's hard to work on such things while depressed.

Hope you at least somewhat better tomorrow, but I understand the struggle.

also regarding your fears of chronic medical problems while getting older, the singularity is near. we may have already past it. technological change and societal change, if society continues to exist, may become exponential in terms of the rate of change, including how medical issues are treated. this may not feel helpful, but also recall what the world was like in the 1990s when the internet first arrived, now look at things now. We are just starting to harness the power of AI for biotechnology. It will change everything.

 

[darksouls]

I am so sorry you are suffering so much
that all sounds very cruel
I wish you the best
hope you find the peace you deserve

 

[FuneralCry]

I really understand finding it so torturous to exist, it sounds like you've suffered so much and it's all so cruel and dreadful to me how there's all this suffering in existing and I see so much cruelty in how humans are forced to suffer in this existence they never even chose with no acceptance towards the right to die, all I wish for is to cease existing peacefully and never suffer in this dreadful existence ever again.

 

[ava_sparkle]

I think if someone is no longer alive, they can't make money for someone else. Either as a worker, a consumer, a medical patient, or an unhoused person. Modern society is driven by profit, not compassion.

 

[-Link-]

We will progress to a point where medical assistance in dying becomes widely available for people with chronic physical health conditions, and it will also be expanded to include people with mental illness.

This will be normalized in most or all Western countries at various points in the future.

In a future where there are people with non-terminal illnesses choosing to end their lives in a way where their loved ones and doctors can support them all the way through the end, people won't have to be made to feel like they're "giving up". They'll be able to look at it as an act of compassion towards themselves.

Live your life and keep fighting if you can. But if you need to stop treatment or if you just want to focus on "surviving without fighting" or if you want to look at end-of-life options, try to keep other people's judgements in perspective. They don't know what it is to be you, so try to not let them make you feel any of that misplaced guilt and shame. Do whatever you need to do, for you, and let that be OK.

 

[zardoz]

I am truly sorry to hear of your suffering @dust-in-the-wind.
I agree with your views 100% about the response and attitude of the medical services. Very well articulated. It's our life to decide what to do with. There is a point when we need acceptance and understanding of what we are, not constant attempts at "curing". Out of interest, what would you like from the medical profession from this point on, in and ideal world? Some form of assisted dying? Unfortunately mental conditions are still too taboo for inclusion in this even in countries where this is supported. This is wrong imho.

 

[AreWeWinning]

Doctors are useful sometimes, but often they don't know shit, or they're simply lying. It's just a big business!

Like car mechanics... They can fix your car, sometimes, but you can never know when you're going to get lied to or screwed over. And they almost never admit their mistakes or that they simply don't know how to fix something. Doctors and the whole healthcare business are the same. Or even worse, because they are smarter, and people perceive medical experts as an authority – but that doesn't mean that what they say is always right.

Diagnoses are often wrong, and doctors often blatantly lie about the risks, necessity, or effectiveness of treatments. I'm NOT saying this is ALWAYS the case, but it happens a lot more than most people realise – it happens all the time!

Regarding the original topic, giving up is a perfectly valid option. I'm not depressed, but I have other problems for which there are no treatments. If someone has a few such problems, plus the added loneliness and a lack of belonging or any purpose or meaning in life whatsoever, they're fucked. You start questioning, "Why struggle"?

Doctors and society in general will try to tell you that 1) humans are the most important thing in the universe 2) we are so smart, so great, and so magnificent that we have a solution for everything and nothing can stand in our way. Well, I feel otherwise. We don't matter, and we're not that smart. We are just animals trying to outsmart each other for our own benefit – doctors included. That's all.

If I'm obviously the underdog and I feel like a loser all the time because I was born with shitty genetics, then it's pretty logical that I don't want to play the game. It could be depression, other health problems, or WHATEVER. It doesn't matter. If life was just a game, I wouldn't hesitate to give up and try playing something else instead. But then again, life IS just a game. There's nothing wrong with giving up.

 

[TBONTB]

I suffer from a severely crippling depressive disorder where I barely function and spend much time in bed.
Tried therapy, no less that 30 med/combos, ketamine and ECT. I'm to the point where I just get passed around now because I'm too difficult a case. I've been sent to the hospital when I express my desire to die. Even the hospital is out of options for me. Last stint had me doing arts and crafts and chair yoga..lol. Yet I still get told platitudes of things getting better. They are lying through their teeth. They all know I'm too far gone and my brain is obviously diseased with no cure. It's time to be honest with patients like me and normalize it being ok to give up without any shaming. Giving false hope is unethical. Who anyway is to judge if someone's life is worth living? I am already dead anyway and everyday is torture. Maybe some of you can relate to this post??

Your story is so powerful. You should be allowed the truth of your situation, and the ability to speak of it honestly. I think most people inwardly acknowledge this truth and agree that your conditions would lead one to be ready to go. But they aren't allowed by society to acknowledge this. I'm sorry for your situation and hope you find a pathway of relative comfort and peace

 

[dontwakemeup]

I'm sorry you are feeling this way. It seems like you have tried everything and done all that have asked you to do, only to continue back at the same place. I dislike when people offer those false promises, it only makes me angry. I'm not as old as you but I pray I don't make it that far either! What people don't seem to understand is we've had these feelings for decades and like myself even younger. I think these specialist believe this is all new for us or perhaps we need another cocktail of pills. When will they accept we are tired and waking up everyday is so freaking difficult and we hate it?? I wonder do any of these specialist feel the same? Are they pretending also just to fit inside society's norm? I definitely understand how you feel, you are not alone. I've personally given up on taking medication anymore and just waiting to die. Hopefully, you can find a hobby, game, or something to help pass your time. There's this funny saying, "I'll try to remember the point as I may say it wrong. "Those who are enjoying life and having fun, would say, "Time goes by fast!" Those who are depressed or sad would look at the clock and say, "Time is going so slow!" I always remembered that because I'm always aware of the time. Try putting headphones on and listening to an audio book. That will trick your mind and give your brain time to rest.

 

[bankai]

I agree, OP. Health is extremely important to me. It's the one thing I won't compromise on. I mean if my physical health fails. I'm not going to drag myself from place to place in extreme pain and suffering. My mind is already a war zone. I enjoy physical activities . Being healthy is very important to me. Moment my body starts to fail me, I'm done.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

I'm 56 years old with a lot of life before me. Aging and chronic diseases coming my way courtesy of genetics, feeds my depression. I don't understand how many people will do anything to stay alive. I don't want to live in a physically diseased body. Mental disease is brutal enough.

have you ever thought about writing a book just about your depression without a happy resolution?

just like: "this is all the shit I tried and nothing worked"

i mention that just because you are so well-versed on available stuff and perhaps it would be actually a useful addition to research on depression