This site made me doubt God's existence even more

[fastFWD]

so about 22 years or so ago i woke up to an all bright white light figure standing next to my bed that seemed to be looking over me. i was extremely frightened and wanted to scream but i believe the pure shock factor of the situation rendered me unable to use my voice.

the figure was made up of pure white light and was thin per say as the light emanating from its body was not as intense as what seemed to be coming from the figure's head. As my view shifted toward the being's face, the light from this area was so brilliant and blinding that i had to look away; it was like i was looking directly at the sun but as if it were much closer in range. a few seconds later, when i reopened my eyes and turned my head back to gaze at the figure, it was gone...

 

[durba1]

God is supposed to be "love" as believers claim, but wild nature say otherwise, watch how god's loving "plan" is working on that poor & helpless animal. This total contradiction will makes you figure out the nonexistence of that imaginary omnipotent & omnipresent God.

 

[IsItReallyParanoia]

With all the bullshit and suffering in this world, I am now certain that if, and I say IF this God exists, we're either only his experiment, like he literally just created us and just watching, taking some fucking notes in his golden notebook or some shit, and that's it lol, or he hates everyone and none of us be going to heaven.

 

[Alan James]

If God really existed, it was he who was to blame for the all sufferings of all living beings that ever existed. He would be an absolute evil for people, a criminal, a sociopathic sadist. I never understood why those who believe in him worship him? They never received anything from this "God". What good did he do?

In the entire Bible (surprisingly), the most honest, fair, kind, respectable character is Lucifer (this is also the same as Prometheus probably). It is written that he (or she or it) was created artificially (not born) as part of the system of control and manipulation of people and everything else. He was the one who had everything possible, was respected and loved by this God and all these angels or what is it. But he considered this God and this system infinitely cruel and unfair, and himself as an instrument of evil and he rebelled against this god, tried to help humanity break out of this terrible system realizing that he had no chance of winning.

 

[johnonymous]

Any god that would condemn someone to eternal hell fire for ending their life because the pain was unbearable is a sadist not worth worshiping. Or even believing in, for that matter.

 

[Jean Améry]

My point was something either makes sense to you or it doesn't. Maybe examples I used are too strong but you have people who are insane that don't find 2+2=4 compelling and there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. Same for flat earth. It's hard to talk about objective reality when everything we experience and know is through our fundamental intuitions, including 2+2=4. We can't know if there is a universe where that is not true, no matter how ridiculous it seems. We can't know absolute truths.

I don't even know what does rational even mean in this context. If life is suffering (for you) and not existing is better than suffering (again for you, since who's the judge here?) why live? If life is a joke suicide is logical.

Of course what we consider reality is what is we perceive (i.e. not necessarily the ultimate reality, or even 'real' for that matter) but some aspects of that reality are more objective than others. That objects fall to earth is a given as it can be demonstrated to be so. That life has worth or a certain painting is considered a masterpiece is a question of subjective opinion.

Generally a suicide is considered rational if the individual seriously considered the pro's and con's and there was no other way to remedy the situation.

An example of a non-rational suicide would be to hang oneself over a failed relationship.

I do agree dying makes more sense than endless suffering. If that wasn't the case I would not frequent this site.

 

[AxsenInsomnia]

Same here. I don't really think orthodox religion is made to make sense, it's made to control. When you actually start thinking and questioning without fear, I think it's natural to stray from it.

 

[LastFlowers]

The thing is, whether you believe in god or not, the world has proved to be the type of place where if there was a master designer, an over looker, a higher power, what have you...well they're not the type of benevolent force many religious communities purport them to be.

There were many things that made me stray from religion at a very young age. (Catholic)
One was when I started to side with the fallen angel himself in class readings of the Bible.
If you are an otherwise good person and start rooting for the devil, you know there is something amiss.
God, the way he was recorded, is the epitome of a human psychopath and/or tyrant.
He manipulates, he exerts control, he plays sadistic games, he expects obedience without knowledge or doubt, and if you disobey, you pay the ultimate price.
If you do obey, you could end up in no better a place than the ones that didn't.

Some people believe he made this world but can no longer have a hand in it. Then why pray? Why thank him every time something good happens?
Why make out things that began and ended in your lifetime, the work of God?
The most god-fearing individuals are the ones who don't ask themselves the hard questions. And if they do, they don't answer them honestly.

I don't believe in God or an afterlife, but if they existed as the Bible described them, I'd rather burn in Hell.

Without a doubt to me, it would seem that all functioning societies need a strong belief in a diety in order to function. So it makes sense that dieties are, shall we say, 'embellished' by Man to be functional. I'm not saying that there is absolute proof in God, but rather that the notion of a diety has a pragmatic purpose.

That's right. Religion is there so that people like Steve Harvey can have their moral barometers.

I've found recently that-besides those born into it-a lot of people who turn to religion, are those who cannot figure out right from wrong themselves and need a fear of being punished and a promised reward for remaining civil and humane.

 

[NOT]

You know there are other Gods except Jesus and Lucifer.
There is Mayan God Quatzelcoatl.
Egyptian God Osiris.
The Tao, Asian.
Appollo Greek.
3 million Gods in India.
Etc. Etc.

 

[Empty Smile]

"IF YOU COMMIT SUICIDE, YOU WILL GO TO HELL. I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE IT..."

That's what I have been told numerous times. I say bring on hell, it can't be any worse then the hell I live in now.

 

[Alan James]

"IF YOU COMMIT SUICIDE, YOU WILL GO TO HELL. I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE IT..."

That's what I have been told numerous times. I say bring on hell, it can't be any worse then the hell I live in now.

I never understood how they think that they will burn in hell if they have no body? What will burn in hell? Will they give a new body there? Or will it be some kind of simulation? What is the logic of these fanatics (if it exists at all)?

 

[Empty Smile]

I never understood how they think that they will burn in hell if they have no body? What will burn in hell? Will they give a new body there? Or will it be some kind of simulation? What is the logic of these fanatics (if it exists at all)?

Ooh.... If they give us new bodies while we are in hell, I wanna be Pennywise the clown!

 

[marcusuk63]

I am one of six and none of us follow or like Football/soccer , the reason ? because my parents don't either , so my dad never took us to kick a ball about as soon as we could walk , dress us in his favourite team colours , take us to matches and brainwash or programe us to to love and worship football etc etc ... get the analogy ?

 

[GeorgeJL]

Does anyone else have the same experience? Where is God when we suffer and plan to CTB? So much suffering on this site it is unbearable for me...Does He wait till we die to throw us into hell for eternity? I am a Christian but I had my doubts even before but now they become more and more solid...
If you are a believer how do you deal with this site? Where is your God?

I use to be a fundamentalist chritian, bible literalist. Now I am a universalist and feel at home, I finally feel like I have found the one true religion. Now as a universalist I still believe in Christianity, just not the mainstream version of it. I evolved out of my christian point of view by learning about NDEs near death experiences, then astral projection, then psychedelics etc.

As a universalist I accept that one day I will end my life and that is OK.

 

[GeorgeJL]

If you do go atheist, just don't do what this atheist professor did and follow beings into grey dark places.

The Case of Howard Storm: A True Story

 

[blanketyblk]

I grew up in a very catholic family, went to church twice a week. Was baptised, did my first communion and even when to a catholic boarding school. I guess before 12 I believed in god. I was given an old bible for my 12th birthday and I actually read it. I know I didn't understand much of it. But I did try and read it and the parts that I did read horrified me. Not just because how women were treated, but how everyone was treated.

I then started to read newspapers that my dad brought home and you could see how much suffering is in the world. Also watching world vision ads on tv.

You kind of realize that either somehow your been blessed to be born into a western society and not into a third world country where as child you might die of starvation or a diseases. or it's just pot luck.

Just look how cruel nature is. Insects that inject there eggs into other insects, which in turn get eaten from the inside out. Or children born with debilitating issues.

I mean if there is a god. He is pretty fucking sick and twisted and darn right cruel. And if that's the case, then I would rather be damned that worship a sociopath that creates us and then torments us for his own amusement.

True Detective had a great quote about the human condition..

I think human consciousness, is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself, we are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self; an accretion of sensory, experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody. Maybe the honorable thing for our species to do is deny our programming, stop reproducing, walk hand in hand into extinction, one last midnight - brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal.

ooh and just watch any youtube video about pat robertson, 700 club and you will soon be totally convinced there is no god.

 

[johnonymous]

 

[Weems]

Pretty weird how He would tell us the whole world was flooded 4,300 years ago, after which all the animals came out of a boat in one place. I mean, it doesn't look anything like that with the fossils and such. Not to mention the age of the earth and universe, which are way over 6,000 years.

"B-but it's not literal!"

Genesis literally gives everyone's age in years.

If God were real, He wouldn't have "revealed" things radically in conflict with everything we can see for ourselves.

 

[KnightOfEnceladus]

Ahhh, yes, the Fatima visions. If there was ever a case of deliberate misrepresentation of the facts, combined with the sappiest, most insultingly patronizing religion-porn you can imagine, that would be it.

I am convinced that if they did happen, it was some sort of extraterrestrial encounter, and not friendly ones either.

 

[blanketyblk]

I am convinced that if they did happen, it was some sort of extraterrestrial encounter, and not friendly ones either.

yep, if i am to believe anything happened back then. then that is what i believe.

. Show me a religion that prepares one for death. For nothingness. There's a church I might enter. Yours prepares one only for more life. For dreams and illusions and lies. If you could banish the fear of death from men's hearts they wouldnt live a day. Who would want this nightmare if not for fear of the next? The shadow of the axe hangs over every joy. Every road ends in death. Or worse. Every friendship. Every love. Torment, betrayal, loss, suffering, pain, age, indignity, and hideous lingering illness. All with a single conclusion. For you and for every one and everything that you have chosen to care for. There's the true brotherhood. The true fellowship. And everyone is a member for life.

now that's my kind of religion. one that teachers that this life is al there is.. after this. it's nothingness

 

[KnightOfEnceladus]

If you're interested in the "afterlife," I'd recommend following what @GeorgeJL (and myself) did, which is investigating near-death experiences or NDEs. Like George, I am a universalist, though from a Deist or spiritist direction rather than a Christian one.

A very interesting link to get you started is this one: https://www.near-death.com/religion...ation-conspiracy-how-hell-became-eternal.html

 

[Soul]

Not a new article, but it's worthwhile:

Is God an Accident?

Despite the vast number of religions, nearly everyone in the world believes in the same things: the existence of a soul, an afterlife, miracles, and the divine creation of the universe. Recently psychologists doing research on the minds of infants have discovered two related facts that may...

www.theatlantic.com

 

[blanketyblk]

If you're interested in the "afterlife," I'd recommend following what @GeorgeJL (and myself) did, which is investigating near-death experiences or NDEs. Like George, I am a universalist, though from a Deist or spiritist direction rather than a Christian one.

A very interesting link to get you started is this one: https://www.near-death.com/religion...ation-conspiracy-how-hell-became-eternal.html

ooh interesting. will give that a read tonight.. thanks muchly!

 

[KnightOfEnceladus]

@blanketyblk, you're very welcome :) I've found that, with very few exceptions, knowledge is the antidote to fear. And people like us have so, so very much to fear...

 

[SadGirl]

simply god does not exist, and religion is a way of manipulating people who can not think for themselves.

 

[Crystal Labeija]

I don't believe in god or gods. Too many gods in this world, yet not one can present a shred of evidence.

 

[blanketyblk]

ooh interesting. will give that a read tonight.. thanks muchly!

My mum had 2 NDE's in her life.. she was a Leo and always though she had 9 lives and i think she used up about 11 of them :-) she had her first NDE when she had anaphylactic shock from iodine when she was in hospital. she didn't know she was fatally allergic to it and the second NDE's was when she nearly drowned while swimming in mainly beach when she was about 19.

somewhere i have an audio tape of her talking about experiences. will see if i can dig them up and posted them online.

i don't know what i believe about them. i think the brain can put on a marvelous show when it knows the lights are about to go out.

 

[Empty Smile]

I don't believe in god or gods. Too many gods in this world, yet not one can present a shred of evidence.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[KnightOfEnceladus]

@SadGirl and @Empty Smile: in the sense that people commonly use the word "God" in the west, neither do I, and this is where I break, hard, with @GeorgeJL above.

My take on it is this: imagine we humans are clay pots. Our mistake is in looking for the uber-pot, the Platonic ideal of the pot, when what we should be looking for is clay, the (literal!) ground of all being! I do not believe God is a single, human-like, conscious individual mind; rather, I believe It is the prerequisite to mind and matter both, the Absolute or the Source, and we're all basically parts of or fluctuations in it.

This approach solves all the fatal paradoxes that arise from the idea of a personal God, chief among them that a being that demands worship is by definition unworthy of it and that a being that changes was not perfect and is therefore not worthy of the title God. This viewpoint is called panentheism (distinct from pantheism) and essentially says that God is everything and the source of everything and the ultimate end goal of everything.

 

[laila888]

I grew up in a non-religious family and I did not even know what God/creation/religion was until I was ten years old. The first time I heard about those things, I was at school in the beginning of a new school year while the teachers were signing us up for religious classes. So for me God is less believable than Harry Potter.