This site made me doubt God's existence even more

[Empty Smile]

I grew up in a non-religious family and I did not even know what God/creation/religion was until I was ten years old. The first time I heard about those things, I was at school in the beginning of a new school year while the teachers were signing us up for religious classes. So for me God is less believable than Harry Potter.

Harry Potter wasn't a real person?

 

[laila888]

Harry Potter wasn't a real person?

He was, I just did not want the muggles to find out!

 

[Empty Smile]

He was, I just did not want the muggles to find out!

I'm still sad though that Dobbie was killed... He was my favorite little creature.

 

[marcusuk63]

simply god does not exist, and religion is a way of manipulating people who can not think for themselves.

and to "put the fear of god into them "

 

[GeorgeJL]

@KnightOfEnceladus I agree that Jesus isn't god. God is formless for the most part. The only person I know of that has engaging conversation with God is NDEer Eben Alexander. So yes for the most part God is source. I also agree that God doesn't demand worship. We are all sons of God in training. Jesus is just an ascended master. I also don't think Jesus was absolutely perfect. He was only good enough and God/reality honored that.

 

[Mbound]

Lol I tried to convince myself I believed in God at one point. I think it's all delusion (and there are about 10000 holes one can easily poke in it ) but I do think if I had a completely earnest belief in it, I would feel happier. The concept of Hell is so laughably evil and nonsensical though, I don't think I could ever begin to get on board with that.

If you weren't raised with it, it's pretty hard to convince yourself of any of it.

 

[yppah71]

I think it is interesting how three of the the world's most prescriptive religions (islam, judaism and christianity) all came from a small and hostile part of the world. Imposing social taboos, dietary rules and enforcing civil order all ensured the propagation of the culture and people. Great religions don't come from tropical islands for a reason. So I don't find a terrible amount of relevancy in something hermits in a desert wrote 2100 years ago and advise people the same.

People struggling with depression and anxiety - and expressing fears on social media - resonate a lot more with me.

 

[been_there]

I find it disappointing that so many human beings require a god to back up their opinions. It really comes across as a restriction to what is usually an interesting mind with worthwhile opinions. Critical thinking isn't really that daunting.

 

[Oblivion]

Does anyone else have the same experience? Where is God when we suffer and plan to CTB? So much suffering on this site it is unbearable for me...Does He wait till we die to throw us into hell for eternity? I am a Christian but I had my doubts even before but now they become more and more solid...
If you are a believer how do you deal with this site? Where is your God?

I really cannot understand how we, sane human beings tend to believe in a invisible god that created the world, i mean COME ON! WHY CANT WE USE OUR HEADS!!!
we are really still primitive and will never grow as long as we believe in such myths.

 

[Mljonzy]

I never belived in god ever and i think we are all here by coincidence of evolution ect. If he was real i think he would have shown up by now and revealed himself all this religion stuff started by a book and stories and people just believe in god without questioning anything. I don't hate people that believe in a god i just see religion as a cult.

 

[Rukia]

If you do go atheist, just don't do what this atheist professor did and follow beings into grey dark places.

The Case of Howard Storm: A True Story

I watched it a while ago...It still scares me...But then he is more or less contradicting the Christian doctrine...Where is the "particular judgement" in this case?

@GeorgeJL do you believe this story ?

 

[inconsequential]

What humans call "god" is just a negative entity that thrives on suffering and control. When you're a higher entity, it's pretty easy to convince early man that you're a deity.

 

[GeorgeJL]

I watched it a while ago...It still scares me...But then he is more or less contradicting the Christian doctrine...Where is the "particular judgement" in this case?

do you believe this story ?

I read his original book years ago that is no longer in print. I still have it.

I wrote this almost perfectly the way it was in the book if not perfectly.

----------------------

Question: Which is the best religion?

I was expecting them to answer something like Methodist or Presbyterian, or Catholic or some denomination.
They answered, 'The religion that brings you closest to God'.

-----------------

I have emailed Howard storm 3 times now. He has always gotten back to me. I told him why are you perching Christianity if that was what the angels said. And he basically said in a nutshell. That he thinks we should work in the framework of the christian church.

Recently i emailed him and asked him if hell is eternal and he said that the angels didn't say whether it was eternal or not. But he said that hell is best thought of as finite. Which means not eternal. But that would mean a very very long time. We really don't know.

Before I get into fully answering your question though, I should say that I am a univeralist, I draw on the wisdom of all the religions and spiritual tools, including astral projection, near death experiences, psychedelics, meditation etc. So the judgement is his own judgement. Meaning we create our own reality. So note that Howard was totally convinced and he believed that he deserved that in some way. And in a way he did. Obviously Jesus and the angels thought he had enough so they saved him, but even still he lived a life of self fulfilling desires, a tough guy, and I suspect an alcoholic.

Basically what I am trying to say is that every religion is like a blind man that is touching an elephant. One of them touches the tail and says it's a rope, the other touches the leg and says it's a tree, the other touches the ear and says it's a curtain. But what I am saying is that they are all seeing the same thing but from a different point of view. I mean do you really think reality and truth is easily seen? Hell no, we have had science for centuries now and we are still refining how to tell what is true from what is false. Likewise figuring out spirituality will take many centuries for us to refine and perfect. That is why I am a universalist.

Also there is something that I realized. Jesus wasn't perfect as in every syllable that came out of his mouth was perfect. But rather he was just perfect enough that God honored that. I know this because Jesus didn't teach us critical thinking, or the scientific method, both of which are vitally important for discovering the truth.

So basically what I have learned is that the Bible isn't 100 percent spot on literal, but it was inspired by spiritual masters, and spirituality. It's not perfect, but there are truths in it that no other religion has which makes it uniquely special.

In short yes I believe Howard. He has no reason to lie, I mean he was a staunch atheist, so it wouldn't make sense that he would lie about that. I mean he gave up his job as a professor to be a preacher. Only someone with a real conviction would do something like that.

Anyway those are my thoughts on that.

 

[Rukia]

Question: Which is the best religion?

I was expecting them to answer something like Methodist or Presbyterian, or Catholic or some denomination.
They answered, 'The religion that brings you closest to God'.(...)

So the judgement is his own judgement. Meaning we create our own reality. So note that Howard was totally convinced and he believed that he deserved that in some way. And in a way he did.(...)

Thank you for answering @GeorgeJL

I heard that one with the "best religion" before...So maybe it is true, who knows...

I fear this... that it is our "own judgement" as I know where I will land...

What do you think about Bill Wiese's story?


Bill Wiese's story

PS. I am too dumb to insert a video lol...

 

[GeorgeJL]

Thank you for answering @GeorgeJL

I heard that one with the "best religion" before...So maybe it is true, who knows...

I fear this... that it is our "own judgement" as I know where I will land...

What do you think about Bill Wiese's story?


Bill Wiese's story

PS. I am too dumb to insert a video lol...

That is a very tough question. If you would have asked me that years ago I would have thought that that he was just making it up. I am now one of the few universalists that actually believe that demons are real, and Jesus won't save you from hell if you fucked up too much over many reincarnations. And what I mean by that is someone that fucks up royally over and over again. Most of us are protected if we go to hell. Many of us will be saved. IMO what Bill and Howard have shown is that some people are saved from hell. But as Jesus warns Bill Wiese that even some Christians are going to hell. And yes I have seen many videos of Bill Wiese before.

But again as a universalist I believe that eventually everyone will be saved.
"
As far as you going to hell, well I have talked to many astral projectors. These are people that can have OBE out of body experiences on demand. Their energetic bodies of consciousness or souls can exit their body at night. This is something that can be learned or it's something that people are born with. Most all of them never experience any kind of hell. But I have run across a few of them that go to what they call the "bad lands." But even the bad lands can be childs play compared to the lower lower dimensions.

Now astral projectors will gladly ignore NDEs like these. Granted most NDEs are never that bad. Both were extraordinarily bad NDE experiences. But I did meet a very good astral projector that said one day when he was in an astral projection that he was taken to what they call hell or what some of them call the bad lands by the guides. One of them was a normal guide, the other had wings of an angel. They took him to the lower dimensions of pain and suffering. He witnessed some of the most horrific suffering imaginable there. Suffering magnified many times over. He said they were wallowing in their own feces. The stench, the sorrow, the fear, was overwhelmingly intense. Then they brought him out of that place. He said that he couldn't reach these lower dimensions even if he wanted to, and he's a very experienced astral projector with many years of experience even in the middle bad lands. These lower denser places of torment are so far removed from the safety of the middle dimensions that it's extremely hard to find them. I was terrified of going to hell so I kept on bugging him about if I would go to hell. Eventually he said, "they are of their own kind." Meaning humans don't go to places like that. Then he said. "And what are you going to do if you die bury yourself in a hole." And with that I accepted that it was hard for me to reach these bad lands. But if Howard was able to find these lower dimensions through being duped by these evil beings, it makes me wonder how many others are duped into following beings into these lower dimensions. BTW the astral projector that told me these things he's a moderator on astral pulse. His name is Szaxx, you can PM him if you like, but he's usually very busy these days. He's a very important person. Very smart, very kind, very busy. LOL

 

[Rukia]

What is making me wary of the Bill Wiese's experiences is that he saw no purgatory.,.. and I as a Catholic believe in purgatory...And there is one more testimony that frightens me:

Brian Melvin's testimony

As for this very important person I am so anxious that I doubt he will calm me down...and I will only waste his precious time

 

[GeorgeJL]

What is making me wary of the Bill Wiese's experiences is that he saw no purgatory.,.. and I as a Catholic believe in purgatory...And there is one more testimony that frightens me:

Brian Melvin's testimony

As for this very important person I am so anxious that I doubt he will calm me down...and I will only waste his precious time

I've read Brian Melvins story before. His story is so crazy that I think it might have been just created by his subconscious. Since we create our own reality it's totally possible that we can see demons in the afterlife but they would really just be reflections of our own subconscious mind. He mentioned demons from what I remember, but the thing that you must know about believing in demons is just the mere belief that they exist can cause people to experience them in the astral/afterlife. So be careful what you believe. That is also way I don't believe this idea that Christianity is the only way because Christians that have NDEs will just reflect back to them their own beliefs. So be careful of NDEs by Christians. I trust astral projectors more than NDEs for learning the truth about the afterlife, because astral projectors have had many experiences out of body, so they have learned to discern what is objective, and what is made up by their own minds in the astral/afterlife. I do trust Bills story a little bit more simply because Jesus was in it.

BTW If you think Bill's, Howard's, and Melvin's experience was crazy just read Mary K Baxters book a divine revelation of hell. But IMO she and Jesus omit that those people in hell are there from messing up in many reincarnations.

As far as purgatory goes all purgatory is is the middle dimensions. There is no such thing as purgatory as an objective place that God puts you when you die to work through your sins. Basically Jesus didn't show Bill Wiese the middle dimensions. He only showed him the lower dimensions from what I can gather. But the middle dimensions are perfect places for people to work through the trauma and pain of life from being here on earth.

Also note that all demons are are beings that left heaven the upper dimensions eons ago to be rulers of the lower dimensions. But in doing so they left us as sheep without any shepherd. And they messed up the natural order of things so God gave up deformed bodies. Meaning if they had stayed in heaven and helped us there wouldn't be all this suffering on earth as there is now. So people like to blame God, but really they should be blaming the angels that left us as sheep without a shepherd.

 

[Soul]

Ahhh, yes, the Fatima visions. If there was ever a case of deliberate misrepresentation of the facts, combined with the sappiest, most insultingly patronizing religion-porn you can imagine, that would be it.

I am convinced that if they did happen, it was some sort of extraterrestrial encounter, and not friendly ones either.

I seem to have missed something. What are "the Fatima visions", please and thank you?

I think it is interesting how three of the the world's most prescriptive religions (islam, judaism and christianity) all came from a small and hostile part of the world. Imposing social taboos, dietary rules and enforcing civil order all ensured the propagation of the culture and people. Great religions don't come from tropical islands for a reason. So I don't find a terrible amount of relevancy in something hermits in a desert wrote 2100 years ago and advise people the same.

These are some intriguing statements. Can you say a bit more about the assertion that "great religions don't come from tropical islands"? Great in what sense, and what's the reason?

@GeorgeJL, can you also elucidate what you mean by "I also don't think Jesus was absolutely perfect. He was only good enough and God/reality honored that"? Which bit of his biography do you see as God/reality honoring Jesus? Thanks!

 

[anna-morphosis]

i've always been completely incapable of believing in any sort of benevolent omnipotent being, though i've also always been interested in "alternative" spiritualisms, especially stuff like gnosticism to the extent that it holds that if a god is in control of this world, it's more of an evil, demonic one, from which we must free ourselves (the demiurge etc). i'm easily prone to spiritual delusions of various sorts and have used different kinds of occultism, highly heretical gnostic-flavored readings of christianity, and even philosophical interpretations of animistic belief systems like the japanese shinto tradition as foundations for those delusions, though i pretty readily acknowledge them as delusions nowadays. i think there's a kernel of truth to a lot of that stuff, but it's really more metaphorical than anything, and taking it too literally can easily lead to getting lost in the maze of psychotic projections of personal struggles. i was raised by atheist parents, so i guess i only ever really saw my personal use of religion as a way to push mental boundaries rather than as a stifling worldview people i trusted forced on me that i had to learn to shake

once when i was like 12 or something i actually remember making a "personal challenge to god," asking that if god in the traditional monotheistic sense actually existed, it should prove itself to me by completely ruining my life. my life DID get pretty completely ruined, increasingly and from around that time, but really it was still too easy to write it all off as a case of contingently falling apart in this indifferent world rather than as an actual thing that god did to me cuz i asked lol. tho maybe it did set me up for the creeping feeling that it might just be all the demiurge's fault

i had a phase not too long ago where i got really obsessed with the philosopher alain badiou, and i think to a big extent i saw a kind of more refined, rational and atheistic gnosticism in his complex quasi-dualistic struggle between the more or less opposed forces that he calls "being" and "event" (which i feel like is really a more or less materialist attempt to account for the division between "matter" and "spirit" - i know he sees "being" as mathematical set theory which is a little diff from "matter" in the usual sense but my main point is that it's like, "legal" limits on that-which-exceeds-it, he literally compares it to the apparatus of state power lol). he does like to write reflections on christian theology though and even complains about gnosticism being too black and white, though i kinda feel like, yeah exactly, that's why my hopeless manic depressive ass has such a thing for narratives like that sigh lol

 

[Soul]

I also keep meaning to say, and might as well: I've seen a bunch of posts along the lines of "a god who does XY or Z wouldn't be worth worshipping, ergo I don't care whether s/he exists".

It would definitely be nice if being repellent in one's thinking and behaviour disqualified one from positions of power, but it doesn't.

Sorry, that sounded more profound in my head than it does out in the open. As you were! 8]

 

[KnightOfEnceladus]

@Soul: in that respect, it's not that being repugnant on its own would be a disqualifier for existence, per se, but that in order to be God a being needs to meet certain requirements, and most peoples' conception of God doesn't.

The prime example is "any being that demands worship is by definition unworthy of it." In order to be God, a being would have to be absolutely complete, perfect, self-sufficient unto itself, and lacking nothing. This means it has no desires and no demands. Therefore, any being that demands worship is imperfect, subject to desire, incomplete, and not self-sufficient, and therefore not God.

My own hypothesis is that if Yahweh exists in any way other than as myth, he's some kind of blasphemous demon arrogating the title God to himself, something like the Gnostic idea of the demiurge.

 

[Soul]

@Soul: in that respect, it's not that being repugnant on its own would be a disqualifier for existence, per se, but that in order to be God a being needs to meet certain requirements, and most peoples' conception of God doesn't.

The prime example is "any being that demands worship is by definition unworthy of it." In order to be God, a being would have to be absolutely complete, perfect, self-sufficient unto itself, and lacking nothing. This means it has no desires and no demands. Therefore, any being that demands worship is imperfect, subject to desire, incomplete, and not self-sufficient, and therefore not God.

My own hypothesis is that if Yahweh exists in any way other than as myth, he's some kind of blasphemous demon arrogating the title God to himself, something like the Gnostic idea of the demiurge.

Thanks, KoE - I get what you mean, but ... hm. I seem to be having another of my Lao-tse moments - pardon!
Are you going to tell me what "the Fatima visions" are?

 

[KnightOfEnceladus]

@Soul, the Fatima visions happened in the early 20th century in Portugal. They were the glurgiest, most insulting Catholic pornography is it possible to imagine, including Mary showing the girls in question visions of Hell (which looked to them like a rolling sea of molten metal with screaming people burning and being tossed around in it).

Some very odd things happened too. The girl at the center of all this said "Mary" was very short (~110-120cm), appeared to have no hair and was wearing a head covering, and had huge dark eyes. She was apparently very pretty, but the image is undoubtedly of, basically, a Grey alien in drag. She says "Mary" literally beamed down from somewhere and hovered at about short-tree height. The people later reported seeing a dancing, dazzling light behind a thin veil of clouds which dried their clothing, and while they said it would have been the sun, no one else anywhere reported seeing that.

That, to me, sounds like some sort of radiation (microwave?) exhaust from a UFO's thrusters, especially the "dried their clothes in the rain" part. A lot of weird shit went down around this, and the girl, Lucia something or other, apparently at first said she "didn't say it was OUR Lady, just A lady." The RCC of course had substantial stake in twisting this story for their own ends.

IMO, if this happened at all, evil and/or pranking ET intelligences is a much more likely explanation, especially given what we now know about how much of the Catholic dogma is plain not true.

 

[Soul]

Thanks, KoE! Mass hallucinations can be quite interesting as a phenomenon even when the contents are just wet. There's a town not far from mine that has them fairly regularly, with cats and/or little girls talking in the voice of the Virgin Mary. Most peculiar.

 

[KnightOfEnceladus]

I don't think that was a mass hallucination, though I can't rule that out either. Just the idea of mass hallucination strikes me as rather implausible. Certainly more plausible than Catholicism though. Mary herself appears not to have known her own role in some of the Gospels, as she seems *surprised* at it well *after* the bit where she composes The Magnificat. Whaaaaaat?

 

[Oblivion]

I read his original book years ago that is no longer in print. I still have it.

I wrote this almost perfectly the way it was in the book if not perfectly.

----------------------

Question: Which is the best religion?

I was expecting them to answer something like Methodist or Presbyterian, or Catholic or some denomination.
They answered, 'The religion that brings you closest to God'.

-----------------

I have emailed Howard storm 3 times now. He has always gotten back to me. I told him why are you perching Christianity if that was what the angels said. And he basically said in a nutshell. That he thinks we should work in the framework of the christian church.

Recently i emailed him and asked him if hell is eternal and he said that the angels didn't say whether it was eternal or not. But he said that hell is best thought of as finite. Which means not eternal. But that would mean a very very long time. We really don't know.

Before I get into fully answering your question though, I should say that I am a univeralist, I draw on the wisdom of all the religions and spiritual tools, including astral projection, near death experiences, psychedelics, meditation etc. So the judgement is his own judgement. Meaning we create our own reality. So note that Howard was totally convinced and he believed that he deserved that in some way. And in a way he did. Obviously Jesus and the angels thought he had enough so they saved him, but even still he lived a life of self fulfilling desires, a tough guy, and I suspect an alcoholic.

Basically what I am trying to say is that every religion is like a blind man that is touching an elephant. One of them touches the tail and says it's a rope, the other touches the leg and says it's a tree, the other touches the ear and says it's a curtain. But what I am saying is that they are all seeing the same thing but from a different point of view. I mean do you really think reality and truth is easily seen? Hell no, we have had science for centuries now and we are still refining how to tell what is true from what is false. Likewise figuring out spirituality will take many centuries for us to refine and perfect. That is why I am a universalist.

Also there is something that I realized. Jesus wasn't perfect as in every syllable that came out of his mouth was perfect. But rather he was just perfect enough that God honored that. I know this because Jesus didn't teach us critical thinking, or the scientific method, both of which are vitally important for discovering the truth.

So basically what I have learned is that the Bible isn't 100 percent spot on literal, but it was inspired by spiritual masters, and spirituality. It's not perfect, but there are truths in it that no other religion has which makes it uniquely special.

In short yes I believe Howard. He has no reason to lie, I mean he was a staunch atheist, so it wouldn't make sense that he would lie about that. I mean he gave up his job as a professor to be a preacher. Only someone with a real conviction would do something like that.

Anyway those are my thoughts on that.

yeh cause the mind is incapable of creating real life like vivid dreams, that's impossible to happen, so what this idiot of an atheist saw was definitely true cause he believed its true and became a priest.
just last month i went to sleep 6 am, closed my eyes, 1 second later i opened them and saw myself lying on the bed with a huge spider coming down from the wall behind me, i went to the light switch to turn on the light, and i looked again at the bed, im not there and theres no spider and i found myself standing next to the light switch, should i become a priest now? lol i sleep walked while dreamin, thats the explanation.
that idiot couldn't accept that he hallucinated a vivid dream and believed in childish stories, we human really are still primitive and we have a long way to go.

 

[Severen]

How do you God doesn't just hate humanity?

 

[Suicidal4Ever]

Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore this is what the LORD says: 'I will bring on them a disaster they cannot escape. Although they cry out to me, I will not listen to them.

I've never really been a religious person but this makes me think because for years i've been seeing 11:11 everywhere nearly everyday. Wish I knew why the guy hates me so much.

 

[Lastexit]

My opinion on this is God is not all mighty and powerful. God is just a name for the process of creating Earth. For example, Earth and lives were created and then we are left alone to do what we want just like wild animals.

However, someone found a way to manipulate humanity therefore we have rules and regulation. Some people might say that it's uncivilised to this and that but think about isnt it only natural and no explanation is needed in whatever we do.

There is actually no purpose in life. One person started all these crap for his own Agenda.

People can say live for this and for that be useful blah blah blah but don't you still die in the end?

From age 0-18/21 you study etc after that you start working to pay for everything until you retired and enjoy your retirement, I find that it doesn't make sense. Why not retire from the day you were born and enjoy the natural beauty of the Earth.

We are slaves to be honest, Earth provides us everything we need to survive. Yet we need to pay for it fuck even currency is a fake thing. I'm drifting away from topic tho but if anyone like to hear my thoughts let me know :D

 

[GeorgeJL]

yeh cause the mind is incapable of creating real life like vivid dreams, that's impossible to happen, so what this idiot of an atheist saw was definitely true cause he believed its true and became a priest.
just last month i went to sleep 6 am, closed my eyes, 1 second later i opened them and saw myself lying on the bed with a huge spider coming down from the wall behind me, i went to the light switch to turn on the light, and i looked again at the bed, im not there and theres no spider and i found myself standing next to the light switch, should i become a priest now? lol i sleep walked while dreamin, thats the explanation.
that idiot couldn't accept that he hallucinated a vivid dream and believed in childish stories, we human really are still primitive and we have a long way to go.

You sound like a newbie. You need to know the difference between OBE and a lucid dream.

Are OBEs the same as Lucid Dreams?

Are OBEs the same as Lucid Dreams?

Are OBEs the same as Lucid Dreams? By Bob Peterson Are out-of-body experiences the same as Lucid Dreams? Some people insist they're ...

obeoutlook.blogspot.com