the world is getting more right wing.

[Pessimist]

i stand by my initial comment i am afraid, nothing i initially said is wrong and can easily be found on wikipedia if you can be bothered to read up on modern China in the last 30 years

According to ProleWiki (the communist version of Wikipedia), China is a "one of only five socialist states in the world today".

Sweden, for example, is much closer to those socialist standards than any of the states listed to be "communist", and yet they don't call themselves like that.

Sweden is very social democratic, but has nothing to do with Marxism–Leninism.

 

[unabletocope]

According to ProleWiki (the communist version of Wikipedia), China is a "one of only five socialist states in ....

don't claim to be an expert on China as i have a lot on my plate in life but it is a country that has changed since the 70s, kind of how Russia changed when the USSR collapsed, China embraced capitalism more openly in the 90s and has been embracing it more and more to the point where calling it a communist country is outdated, it's more of a hybrid of communism and capitalism these days than just a pure communist country

 

[Chinaski]

Just looked up "capitalism" on Wikipedia, sounds bad, idk

 

[Pessimist]

don't claim to be an expert on China as i have a lot on my plate in life but it is a country that has changed since the 70s, kind of how Russia changed when the USSR collapsed, China embraced capitalism more openly in the 90s and has been embracing it more and more to the point where calling it a communist country is outdated, it's more of a hybrid of communism and capitalism these days than just a pure communist country

Just because Chinese policy no longer causes a famine that kills 50 million people in three years, doesn't make it capitalist.

Just looked up "capitalism" on Wikipedia, sounds bad, idk

Communism doesn't sound great either.

Cannibalism under Communism – The Skeptical Libertarian

blog.skepticallibertarian.com

 

[unabletocope]

Just because Chinese policy no longer causes a famine that kills 50 million people in three years, doesn't make it capitalist.

View attachment 143734

how many foreign and illegal wars have western capitalist countries waged and invaded to impose their versions of ideology and democracy on, killing millions as they go? China is an authoritarian state which confuses legitimate discussion of ideology, how many people die, kill themselves on the back of modern work culture? its worth pointing out that i am not a communist but neither am i saying pure free market capitalism has improved the world or makes life work, people are caught up in free market capitalism now, we are literally on the brink of going for it beyond the 1980s and i don't know, i think it could cause a fucking world war if we're not careful, for all it's faults i don't recall world wars breaking out on the back of communism

 

[Pessimist]

how many foreign and illegal wars have western capitalist countries waged and invaded to impose their versions of ideology and democracy on, killing millions as they go?

This isn't directly related to economic systems, unlike famines under communist regimes. If you're talking about crimes in general, then some of the most horrific crimes have occured under communist regimes as well: the Great Purge in the Soviet Union, the Cultural Revolution in China, the Cambodian genocide in Kampuchea, etc.

 

[unabletocope]

This isn't directly related to economic systems, unlike famines under communist regimes. If you're talking about crimes in general, then some of the most horrific crimes have occured under communist regimes as well: the Great Purge in the Soviet Union, the Cultural Revolution in China, the Cambodian genocide in Kampuchea, etc.

View attachment 143735

you used the term chinese policy and i'm running with that, economic policy and ideology can go hand in hand and both can be imposed as a form of authoritarianism or a way of destroying a democracy or killing millions regardless of whether its communism or capitalism, China is generally a communist country and i do accept that but a famine, while terrible and unimaginable, isn't as damaging as a world war and you know which ideology tends to push for world wars? capitalism

 

[Pessimist]

you used the term chinese policy and i'm running with that, economic policy and ideology can go hand in hand and both can be imposed as a form of authoritarianism or a way of destroying a democracy or killing millions regardless of whether its communism or capitalism, China is generally a communist country and i do accept that but a famine, while terrible and unimaginable, isn't as damaging as a world war and you know which ideology tends to push for world wars? capitalism

Capitalism can really suck sometimes, but I hate the left-wing populist idea idea that capitalism is the most abhorrent thing while communism is acceptable. National Socialists also hated capitalism, so the deadliest ideologies are actually anti-capitalist.

 

[unabletocope]

Capitalism can really suck sometimes, but I hate the left-wing populist idea idea that capitalism is the most abhorrent thing while communism is acceptable. National Socialists also hated capitalism, so the deadliest ideologies are actually anti-capitalist.

View attachment 143816

i never said capitalism is abhorrent, just pointing out it's flaws. you mean the nazis, who hated communism?

 

[Placo]

UK, US, France, Italy, Israel, Russia. i tend not to make political comments on here but the world is going more and more right wing and i genuinely wonder how it is going to play out, things will continue to get more dangerous i guess

Modi was also re-elected in India and soon there will be a far-right government in France too. In the American elections I believe Trump will win so the USA will also turn to the right.

The only consolation for the global left recently was the fact that the Bolivian coup was overturned, the European elections demonstrated a clear turn to the right even if the left still claims victory, I don't know why.

For us it's not a good thing because we know that the right is prolife, therefore against abortion and assisted suicide, I wouldn't be surprised if we went back to criminalizing suicide itself.

 

[Pessimist]

you mean the nazis, who hated communism?

Nazis and communists hate each other, but both are anti-capitalists for different reasons. Communists are responsible for more murder, by the way. At the end of the day, these are two sides of the same totalitarian coin.

 

[unabletocope]

Nazis and communists hate each other, but both are anti-capitalists for different reasons. Communists are responsible for more murder, by the way. At the end of the day, these are two sides of the same totalitarian coin.

View attachment 143861

the nazis were keen on capitalism more than communism, why else do you think they are known as right wing

 

[Chinaski]

the nazis were keen on capitalism more than communism, why else do you think they are known as right wing

*Wikipedia link pointing out how the nazis were actually called National Socialists don't you know, checkmate fucko!!!!* incoming in 5...4...3...

 

[unabletocope]

french exit poll has the far right in front. between that and biden on the way out, it's begun

 

[Chinaski]

french exit poll has the far right in front. between that and biden on the way out, it's begun

It has them in front but it has the left bloc second, the Liberal Centrist Sensible Pinstripes in third. The right can easily be stopped if these people back the left however, as I've mentioned in other threads, they will always pick a fascist over a socialist.

 

[Dot]

Apolgis if n.e of slf commnts r Captn Obvs - slf politcl educatn = 'N-gagd bt avrge' - own knwldge of commnsm vs captlism ds nt g/ furthr thn 'shard rsourcs vs privtsatn & commrce' s/ am nt goin2 pretnd 2 knw mre thn tht

Am Intrstd hwver 2 C rsults of UK electns bcse of combnatn of cmplacncy & apthy

Ppl takng fr grantd tht Labr wll win s/ wll ppl jst nt fl as tho thy nd t/ vte

Own famly hs rnge of politcl vws frm Librl Dem leanng t/ Rform spportrs bt 1 issu tht evry1 agrees on = tht thre = jst lss diversn betwn prties & = as if th/ identties of dffrnt prties - espclly Labr & Consertves r jst bleedng in2 1 murky grp

Lke Chnski sd - if slf sw crrctly - = tht Jermy Corbyn ws prbbly th/ bst xample of actul leftsts bt Labr outcastd hm - slf ws surprsd 2 C tht h/ ws kickd frm prty recntly whn h/ ws re-elctd fr yrs - havng hm run as indepdnnt nw wll srely split thr vte & comprmse thr chnces in Hghbry & Islngtn

Am persnlly feelng tho tht = stll lingrng effcts frm 2008 financl crsh bcse publc wll oftn vte fr mre hrd-linrs durng tmes of scarcty & ws nt surprsd t/ lern tht currnt consrv8tve P.M ws 1 of th/ ppl wh/ nt only proftd heavly frm tht crsh bt bordr-lne Ngineerd wht happnd

& nw obvsly wth globl econmy/cst of livng/hse prices ppl wll stll b vulnrble t/ fallng fr '= bcse of th/ immgrnts' evn mre

If welth gp = widnng mre & mre acrss westrn cntries thn th/ increasd numbr of mllionres & bllionres wll srely hve vestd intrsts in keepng rght wing govnrmnts in powr in ordr t/ hld on2 thr welth

S/ jst hpe tht if Labr r votd in 2mro/Frdy tht thy cn inspre ppl & mke enuf chnges thru thr 1st term bcse imo th/ currnt electn = jst a steppng stne t/ hw poltclly leanng th/ cntry wll b ovr th/ follwng terms rathr thn Labr jst b-ing an 'anti-Try protst vte'

& if thngs d/ nt imprve thn th/ Nvirnmnt whch = facilt8tng th/ fr-rght sentmnts wll jst kp xistng

 

[rainwillneverstop]

Dot's post translated:

I apologize if any of my comments are C aptain Obvious. My political education is "engaged but average."
My own knowledge of communism vs capitalism does not go further than "shared resources vs privatization and commerce" so I'm not going to pretend to know more than that.

I'm interested however to see results of UK elections, because of a combination of complacency and apathy.

People taking for granted that Labor will win, so will people just not feel as tho they need to vote.

My own family has a range of political views from liberal democratic leaning to reform supporters.
But 1 issue that everyone agrees on is that there's just less diversion between parties and it's as if the identifies of different parties - especially labor and conservatives are just bleeding into 1 murky group.

Like Chinaski said, if I saw correctly, is that Jeremy Corbyn was probably the best example of actual leftists but labor outcasted him.
I was surprised to see that he was kicked from the party recently when he was reelected for years.
Having him run as independent now will surely split the vote and compromise their chances in Highbury and Islington.

I'm personally feeling tho that it's still lingering effects from the 2008 financial crash.
Because public will often vote for more hardliners during times of scarcity, and was not surprised to learn that current conservatives P.M was one of the people who not only profited heavily from the crash, but borderline engineered what happened.

And now obviously with global economy/cost of living/housing prices, people will still be vulnerable to falling for "it's because of the immigrants" even more.

If the wealth gap is widening more and more across western countries, then the increased number of millionaires and billionaires will surely have vested interests in keeping right wing governments in power, in order to hold onto their wealth.

So just hope that if Labor are voted in tomorrow/Friday, that they can inspire people and make enough changes through their first term
Because imo, the current election is just a stepping stone to how politically leaning the country will be over the following terms, rather than Labor just being an "anti-try protest vote

And if things do not improve then the environment which is fostering the far-right sentiments will just continue."

 

[Dot]

Eithr wy tho am jst watchng UK electn wth n,e1 els intrstd

 

[unabletocope]

uk goes to the polls today. i voted. starmer to win, sunak mordaunt and hunt to lose their seats. starmer will be our joe biden, not looking forward to it, thought sunak had a chance of turning them around but the right are on the march all the way now. i miss corbyn, i hope he keeps his seat. don't think starmer will handle anything well. maybe i am too bleak to be objective but things will get worse

 

[Dot]

uk goes to the polls today. i voted. starmer to win, sunak mordaunt and hunt to lose their seats. starmer will be our joe biden, not looking forward to it, thought sunak had a chance of turning them around but the right are on the march all the way now. i miss corbyn, i hope he keeps his seat. don't think starmer will handle anything well. maybe i am too bleak to be objective but things will get worse

Th/ Jonthn Pi cmedian dd a vdeo on Labr v recntly & hs wordng resn8td imo - if electn algns wth th/ polls thn Labr r b-ing handd th/ govrnmnt on a pl8 bt stll no1 knws wht h/ = actully standng fr - h/ = abt as charsmatc as a T-cosy

 

[Dot]

Jermy Crbyn ws electd as an indpndnt

Thght tht mght happn

Wy t/ trn an Ntire cnstitncy agnst Labr in ordr t/ pandr t/ othr ppl


Also - alwys a winnr

 

[Chinaski]

Jeremy Corbyn is the best of us and the vilification he has received for nearly a decade as our political classes try to eradicate him from public life is obscene. Remember folks, they ain't just coming for him, they're coming for all of us, he just happens to stand in the way and l was so relieved to see the only man this century to lead Labour to in excess of 10m votes (and he did it twice) retain his seat over some parachuted bootlicker.

 

[Dot]

Jeremy Corbyn is the best of us and the vilification he has received for nearly a decade as our political classes try to eradicate him from public life is obscene. Remember folks, they ain't just coming for him, they're coming for all of us, he just happens to stand in the way and l was so relieved to see the only man this century to lead Labour to in excess of 10m votes (and he did it twice) retain his seat over some parachuted bootlicker.

Yh h/ ws refrrd 2 as an 'xtremst' in mdia 2dy

Thy hve hd snce th/ 80s & b4 t/ notce tht abt hm

 

[Dot]

Rght wng candid8 jst dfeatd in Iran

BBC News - Reformist Masoud Pezeshkian elected Iran's president

Iran election: Reformer Masoud Pezeshkian elected new president

The former heart surgeon has beaten his hardline conservative rival Saeed Jalili.

www.bbc.com

 

[amaluuk]

The increased gains of the right, at least in the West, can be observed to have a pattern that it tends to happen in countries with incredibly ineffectual left-wing alternatives, bought and paid for neolib parties that never seem to follow up on their promises, and no existent or effective popular movement to compensate. It is the right, as extreme and fascist as they are, who provide actual programs of long term sweeping reform and programs to change the order, as drastic as those policies may be. They provide hope for political change that the alternatives just never can.

Usually in a lot of cases, these right wing parties tend to fall apart, sometimes moderately in Poland where voter mobilization kicks them out, and sometimes accidentally and dramatically like what just happened in the UK where the Tories completely collapsed and Labor, which had basically the same electoral margins it had in 2019, is somehow able to pull a win they didn't see coming.

Rght wng candid8 jst dfeatd in Iran

BBC News - Reformist Masoud Pezeshkian elected Iran's president

Iran election: Reformer Masoud Pezeshkian elected new president

The former heart surgeon has beaten his hardline conservative rival Saeed Jalili.

www.bbc.com

No sweeping changes to Iran can be expected here but it's nice to see a fundamental rejection of the conservative establishment by Iranian voters even despite the low turn-out. Still a good day for Iran.

According to ProleWiki (the communist version of Wikipedia), China is a "one of only five socialist states in the world today".

View attachment 143729

Sweden is very social democratic, but has nothing to do with Marxism–Leninism.

ProleWiki is not an actual source. Some guys online calling China actually-existing-socialism cannot magically undo the decades of economic reform under Deng Xiaoping, which continued with Augusto Pinochet being invited to China in the 90s to consult on economic affairs twice (some commie he must have been, aye?), and finally in the present day where China is home to massive private corporations such as Tencent, but I imagine your rebuttal to that would be some sort of "uhh well China le corrupt" which, no, it's not not-capitalism just because it's corrupt.

And for the record, the Nazis invented the word "privatization" because of how much sections of the state they auctioned off to private buyers.

 

[Placo]

In the midst of the black wave the UK turns left.

 

[Dot]

Usually in a lot of cases, these right wing parties tend to fall apart, sometimes moderately in Poland where voter mobilization kicks them out, and sometimes accidentally and dramatically like what just happened in the UK where the Tories completely collapsed and Labor, which had basically the same electoral margins it had in 2019, is somehow able to pull a win they didn't see coming.

Only prt tht wll dsgree wth = tht Labr dd nt C th/ win comng

Th/ writng ws on th/ wll fr consrvtves ths tme & thy wre b-ing kickd 1 wy or th/ othr

Lb Dms wre imprssve in thr stratgy of fcusng thr canvssng on plces whre thy usully cme 2nd - thy mde tactcl votng wrk in thr advntge

Rform also defntly helpd splittng th/ rght-wng vtes tho

 

[unabletocope]

In the midst of the black wave the UK turns left.

very soft left, not marginally different from before tbh, surprised Truss and Rees Mogg lost their seats though, expecting things to kick off with Farage as well

 

[Chinaski]

very soft left, not marginally different from before tbh, surprised Truss and Rees Mogg lost their seats though, expecting things to kick off with Farage as well

I would argue that the UK has not turned left but taken the leap to the right, as discussed. The Labour government is essentially the Conservative govt circa 2012, Labour have spent five years crushing the left and pitching so far right that they have legitimised the reactionary fury which now comprises the opposition.

 

[Pessimist]

I would argue that the UK has not turned left but taken the leap to the right, as discussed. The Labour government is essentially the Conservative govt circa 2012, Labour have spent five years crushing the left and pitching so far right that they have legitimised the reactionary fury which now comprises the opposition.

The Labour Party is centre-left and social democratic. That's ok. Not everything needs to be far-left and revolutionary.