Discussion The fixers are back

[waiting4thenextbus]

Edit. My connection cut out! No need to apologise to me. Your comment was directed at bubugirl. I think stating your opinion is fine but I don't see the need to make it personal.

Thanks for your response! Please(if you have the time) would you point out how I directly might've offended @bubugirl, in fact I thought I was being pleasant since I said she might be one of the exceptions of her generation - aka a nice boomer? I will gladly apologize once I know exactly where I went wrong, and if I caused anyone pain.

 

[Symbiote]

Fixthe26 never left the internet, if they did, then they would've gotten some sense and sought therapy instead of having Twitter beefs with the anti-suicide prevention groups and us. FT26 have bolstered their numbers a bit, more parents involved who have lost a loved one to suicide whether it be from this site or elsewhere. I engaged about 14-16 months ago with the Nihills, from the view of a concerned person. Yes they lost their son, an adult son, a son who was in the same house as the rest. Instead of seeking grief counseling and therapy, they're form of therapy is seeking revenge against the person that had a brief exchange with their son. Going so far as to doxxing said person and harassing that person until that person CTB'd. Instead of putting it to rest afterwards, they celebrated and continued the fight by doxxing a few more and then running a controlled agenda by appealing to the heartstrings of the gullible masses that read NY Post, NYT, and all the UK tabloids.

For as long as the families hold their bitterness and hatred towards this community and other like-minded communities, they set a precedent where their families will never have any peace for as long as suicide communities exist and the transient people within either recover or CTB, we'll be viewed as enemy #1 in their eyes. You can reach out to them, you'll end up being a target of harassment and eventual doxxing if you're not careful. They have employed private investigators to anyone who communicates with them. As former members of this site have learned that they are not to be trusted even if you go to them for help, they'll use your information and then use you as a scapegoat.

Their campaign to change the laws have been met with conservative politicians or what I call struggling politicians who willingly take up a social cause to save their careers. There's another bill that has been in legislature hell since it was drafted back in 2003 when Alt.SuicideHoliday was still around and parents wanting that to be shut down. This bill for Section 230 is in the same fate and neither side of the political spectrum will dare challenge the tech corporations because of financial reasons. This site has its purpose on the Internet, to serve as a community for pro-choice and the right to die movement. We can talk freely and seek support without judgement no matter where you came from or what beliefs you have. I believe that's what the founders of this site intended it to be, that even making it private would go against those beliefs.

That's all I wanted to say, thanks for reading and sorry you're here.

 

[rationaltake]

Thanks for your response! Please(if you have the time) would you point out how I directly might've offended @bubugirl, in fact I thought I was being pleasant since I said she might be one of the exceptions of her generation - aka a nice boomer? I will gladly apologize once I know exactly where I went wrong, and if I caused anyone pain.

Please don't lump all boomers together. I'm a boomer and I'm here like anybody of any age is here. We're all humans.

You might be one of the few decent exceptions. In my personal experience edit:(and opinion) most boomers suck.

I don't want to derail this thread but I appreciate your asking for my point of view. Thank you for being willing to discuss it.

I understand that you were trying to be pleasant and weren't intending to offend anyone.

For me it's basically about respecting each other as humans and individuals.

I think you're saying that most of the boomers you have actually met suck. Based on your experience you formed the opinion that most of the boomers in existence - including every single one you haven't met - also suck. Due to their age. This is making a judgement about an individual based purely on a single attribute which they can't change. It's a generalisation.

It's like saying to someone you've just met and know nothing about "Most people I know with green hair are liars. You've got green hair so it's very likely you're a liar too - though there is a small chance you're one of the few decent people with green hair".

I think it's disrespectful to say that someone might be one of the few decent exceptions because you've already judged this person and decided there's a far greater chance that this person sucks than there is that they are decent. To me this isn't respecting someone as an individual or treating them according to their behaviour.

So that's my take on it.

 

[chocolatebar]

After reading this long thread, I can only think about one thing: We're not really a community. Nothing really unites us in here besides the fact that we want to die and, if we lived in the same place, I don't think our interactions would be good. In fact, I think we would only replicate the very world we're tired of living in.

You might be one of the few decent exceptions. In my personal experience edit:(and opinion) most boomers suck.

Have you spent time and talked to older people outside of your social circle and angry people on the internet?
What you're doing is discriminating people. It's called ageism and, for some reason, it's growing in the internet lately

My guess on why ageism is being promoted is because it's a great tool to keep people separated and fighting each other instead of looking for the real culprits of so many problems we face. And it's getting easily accepted by the people because it's lets us make lazy judgements and not put much thought into things.

 

[waiting4thenextbus]

I don't want to derail this thread but I appreciate your asking for my point of view. Thank you for being willing to discuss it.

I understand that you were trying to be pleasant and weren't intending to offend anyone.

For me it's basically about respecting each other as humans and individuals.

I think you're saying that most of the boomers you have actually met suck. Based on your experience you formed the opinion that most of the boomers in existence - including every single one you haven't met - also suck. Due to their age. This is making a judgement about an individual based purely on a single attribute which they can't change. It's a generalisation.

It's like saying to someone you've just met and know nothing about "Most people I know with green hair are liars. You've got green hair so it's very likely you're a liar too - though there is a small chance you're one of the few decent people with green hair".

I think it's disrespectful to say that someone might be one of the few decent exceptions because you've already judged this person and decided there's a far greater chance that this person sucks than there is that they are decent. To me this isn't respecting someone as an individual or treating them according to their behaviour.

So that's my take on it.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this.

I appreciate that you've described the way I went wrong and now that you've pointed it out I realize it was a really unfair and to be frank, shitty comment to make. It was ageist and ignorant, and I'm sorry my comment showed a separatist, dividing attitude. This is not my intention. Everybody on this community belongs IMO.

I shouldn't generalize. Not all boomers are pro-life (or anti-choice), or asked nor agreed to be dealt shitty hands in the world we live in and also may be very nice people.

Not that this excuses it, I got caught up in the moment because I'm angry with the fixers and also someone earlier in this thread made a really good argument about how boomers contributed to some of the most soul destroying societal systems that are in place today, which make my life directly difficult. My parent is a boomer too so that could also have something to do with it. Once again - this doesn't excuse it, just some context.

If you're listening, sorry @bubugurl

 

[chocolatebar]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this.

I appreciate that you've described the way I went wrong and now that you've pointed it out I realize it was a really unfair and to be frank, shitty comment to make. It was ageist and ignorant, and I'm sorry my comment showed a separatist, dividing attitude. This is not my intention. Everybody on this community belongs IMO.

I shouldn't generalize. Not all boomers are pro-life (or anti-choice), or asked nor agreed to be dealt shitty hands in the world we live in and also may be very nice people.

Not that this excuses it, I got caught up in the moment because I'm angry with the fixers and also someone earlier in this thread made a really good argument about how boomers contributed to some of the most soul destroying societal systems that are in place today, which make my life directly difficult. My parent is a boomer too so that could also have something to do with it. Once again - this doesn't excuse it, just some context.

If you're listening, sorry @bubugurl

Don't be hard on yourself. It's good that you see how you were thinking in a clouded way. It happens to al of us.

 

[rationaltake]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this.

I appreciate that you've described the way I went wrong and now that you've pointed it out I realize it was a really unfair and to be frank, shitty comment to make. It was ageist and ignorant, and I'm sorry my comment showed a separatist, dividing attitude. This is not my intention. Everybody on this community belongs IMO.

I shouldn't generalize. Not all boomers are pro-life (or anti-choice), or asked nor agreed to be dealt shitty hands in the world we live in and also may be very nice people.

Not that this excuses it, I got caught up in the moment because I'm angry with the fixers and also someone earlier in this thread made a really good argument about how boomers contributed to some of the most soul destroying societal systems that are in place today, which make my life directly difficult. My parent is a boomer too so that could also have something to do with it. Once again - this doesn't excuse it, just some context.

If you're listening, sorry @bubugurl

Thank you for making the effort to engage with me. We all go wrong at times but it takes a really big person to own up.

I completely understand being caught up in the moment and we're all influenced by our personal circumstances. I have to try really hard not to be down on parents in general because my own parents were absolutely atrocious.

Thinking about it now one of my posts in this thread really wasn't inclusive. I didn't make it clear I was being ironic and another member pointed out that they hadn't picked up on the irony as English isn't their first language.

I hope I respond as graciously and honestly as you have the next time somebody tells me I got something wrong.

 

[waiting4thenextbus]

Don't be hard on yourself. It's good that you see how you were thinking in a clouded way. It happens to al of us.

I appreciate your understanding, thank you it's important that we all feel accepted and like we belong in this community.. And it's good to pay attention to comments that don't reflect that. You guys are so understanding and forgiving!

Thank you for making the effort to engage with me. We all go wrong at times but it takes a really big person to own up.

I completely understand being caught up in the moment and we're all influenced by our personal circumstances. I have to try really hard not to be down on parents in general because my own parents were absolutely atrocious.

Thinking about it now one of my posts in this thread really wasn't inclusive. I didn't make it clear I was being ironic and another member pointed out that they hadn't picked up on the irony as English isn't their first language.

I hope I respond as graciously and honestly as you have the next time somebody tells me I got something wrong.

Thanks @rationaltake - you've displayed patience and understanding in the way you handled my very misguided comment. I appreciate that you gave me the opportunity to see where I went wrong and to rectify it. Your username checks out! ;)

It is sometimes difficult to stay objective when talking about triggers, thanks for pointing that out. That's exactly where I went wrong! I appreciate you sharing a personal story of yours. It sucks that there are atrocious parents out there, and I'm sorry you also had your fair share of that.

I think I saw that comment and you guys handled it pretty well and got to the bottom of it like decent human beings! I'm happy to learn from examples like this.

Coming back to the topic of the thread, what are we going to do about the fixers, to prevent the shut-down of this website? What is the consensus of making the whole of SS temporarily private? I haven't got any other ideas Honestly petrified, this website is all I have. Making the website temporarily private is not an ideal solution by any means, but it's certainly better than a shut down.

 

[rationaltake]

I appreciate your understanding, thank you it's important that we all feel accepted and like we belong in this community.. And it's good to pay attention to comments that don't reflect that. You guys are so understanding and forgiving!

Thanks @rationaltake - you've displayed patience and understanding in the way you handled my very misguided comment. I appreciate that you gave me the opportunity to see where I went wrong and to rectify it. Your username checks out! ;)

It is sometimes difficult to stay objective when talking about triggers, thanks for pointing that out. That's exactly where I went wrong! I appreciate you sharing a personal story of yours. It sucks that there are atrocious parents out there, and I'm sorry you also had your fair share of that.

I think I saw that comment and you guys handled it pretty well and got to the bottom of it like decent human beings! I'm happy to learn from examples like this.

Coming back to the topic of the thread, what are we going to do about the fixers, to prevent the shut-down of this website? What is the consensus of making the whole of SS temporarily private? I haven't got any other ideas Honestly petrified, this website is all I have. Making the website temporarily private is not an ideal solution by any means, but it's certainly better than a shut down.

Thank you very much for making this boomer feel appreciated I try to live up to my username.

I'm so sorry that your circumstances have led you here. Abusive parents suck and it sucks that disabled people don't get the financial assistance they need and deserve. I feel very strongly about both these issues.

I'm glad I've been able to learn from your open-minded approach and I apologise for saying your comment was disrespectful. You've given us a masterclass in respecting other people and considering their views.

Returning to the main topic I rely on this site more than I would care to admit and I share your fears about losing it.

Making the site private has been mentioned in the suggestions forum. It's still open for discussion if you want to wade in.

This is what Rain said earlier in this thread about keeping the site going:

I wouldn't worry too much though regarding their ancounements that this website will go down soon. They have done this for the last 3 years and they have exhausted pretty much all options. That NYT article was their last shot in my opinion. There is no indication that this website will be gone in the near future. It's a coping mechanism. The idea that we could be gone soon is empty hope after 3 years of intense work to get us from the internet with no results. They're doing this to keep themselves on track.

 

[rationaltake]

Didn't pick up on the irony since English isn't my first language(I feel pretty stupid for that). And in the case of boomers as a generation I believe generalizations are due. Since the corporations and governments of those times were elected or run by the boomers and these entities are primary culprits behind the poisoning of the earth and the general destabilization of society. Taking the two examples of cyber bullying and child labor in China you mentioned into account. Yes in a way the cyber bullying experienced by people in this generation can be blamed on this generation as a collective as we are the ones who have failed to create a more regulated and safe environment online where people can share their opinions and experiences without getting bullied. We are to blame for not setting up watchdogs or agencies that lobbied for more internet safety. I believe a generation is responsible for the wrongdoings of those that belong to it. Because before this generation there was no cyberspace to bully anyone.

The child labor in China however is not something that can be blamed on this generation, because it is actively authorized and propagated by a government of boomers that still struggling with old world blues. Even if the peaceful pills author is a boomer it still doesn't change my statement though. I said that the person who is providing the methods for a peaceful exit has done much more for distressed minds than the entire boomer generation as a collective has ever done. I still think that the boomers who created this terrible world should get a life and suffer on this trash heap, there is no change to that. Although I do agree that a birthdate don't necessarily define the character of a person I do believe the environment in which a person grows up will definitely influence their character and the time frame in which the boomers grew up is what created the selfish generation that left the future generations to die on sinking trash heap.

The generation of the boomers was an extremely selfish one and they exploited the resources of this Earth, consumed without end and poisoned the soil and the seas in the name of progress. Boomers in general show a uniform behavior pattern and pointing out that there is a small minority within this generation that didn't want any of this is not a justification for the actions of the vast majority. There were Nazi SS soldiers that saved Jews from the concentration camps and provided escape routes for hundreds of Jews at the height of WW2, does that mean the SS shouldn't be blame for their atrocities and that their behaviors shouldn't be generalized? See how your argument falls apart when you start to nitpick?

As for shaping institutions, yes I am doing my best as an individual to break away from archaic traditions in my field. I am trying my best to be kinder and understanding of the various people I am dealing with. I actively contribute to groups that lobby ancient institutions for change and slowly there is change. But that isn't enough, and you can thank bureaucracy for that. I agree that nothing is black and white, but boomers as a collective is to be blamed for the shitty condition of the world right now.

I didn't thank you for this interesting post. I appreciate your making the effort to explain your position and for answering my questions.

I think it's brilliant that you've done your best to try and change things as an individual.

I can understand now that you feel each generation has a collective responsibility. So you're not just blaming boomers in particular.

 

[CursedSoul]

man i fucking hate those people, i would bash their fucking heads in. For once in my life i can speak with people like me and not those retarded pro lifers or doctors, and they want to remove this website ? they can go fuck themselves.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Why can't we just start our own barrage against them on Twitter ourselves? We all have something to say about this and our thoughts and opinions on CTB are just as, or more, valid that theirs, since it will affect us directly when our choice is made. I think in this kind of a circumstance, sitting on the sidelines is not the way to go. I think interjecting into their conversations about what we think is the way to go.

 

[lofticries]

Some of these ppl really act like we get goodie bags filled with sn and n once we join this forum.

I've been suicidal and depressed for as far back as I can remember and this place makes me no more suicidal than I already was. In fact it oddly does the reverse.

 

[waiting4thenextbus]

Thank you very much for making this boomer feel appreciated I try to live up to my username.

I'm so sorry that your circumstances have led you here. Abusive parents suck and it sucks that disabled people don't get the financial assistance they need and deserve. I feel very strongly about both these issues.

I'm glad I've been able to learn from your open-minded approach and I apologise for saying your comment was disrespectful. You've given us a masterclass in respecting other people and considering their views.

Returning to the main topic I rely on this site more than I would care to admit and I share your fears about losing it.

Making the site private has been mentioned in the suggestions forum. It's still open for discussion if you want to wade in.

This is what Rain said earlier in this thread about keeping the site going:

It's really a big pleasure :D Thanks for helping this millennial know what's what, by showing a huge amount of patience and grace!

I think this is one of the very few places I've been met with patience and level-headedness in my whole life. Yet another reason why I find this website a sanctuary and why it should stay. Most people I've encountered here seem to be really kind and understanding.

No need to apologize for pointing out my comment, I thank you as I've learnt from you. I'll admit that for me its difficult to learn things and accept that I'm wrong, but when met with grace and patience as you and the community displayed - it's much easier

Thank you for including Rain's post, reading it made me feel a lot more comfortable. Can't believe I missed that. I'll check out the post on the suggestions forum and see what's happening. Think I'll suggest that if the site is under threat of being shut down, we should move to the deepweb again. I can't remember why the deepweb site was shut down but might be a good alternative if the law closes access to this clearnet site.

Why can't we just start our own barrage against them on Twitter ourselves? We all have something to say about this and our thoughts and opinions on CTB are just as, or more, valid that theirs, since it will affect us directly when our choice is made. I think in this kind of a circumstance, sitting on the sidelines is not the way to go. I think interjecting into their conversations about what we think is the way to go.

Well said. Absolutely, and I think some people are already criticizing the fixers on twitter. The more the merrier though!

 

[bubugurl]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this.

I appreciate that you've described the way I went wrong and now that you've pointed it out I realize it was a really unfair and to be frank, shitty comment to make. It was ageist and ignorant, and I'm sorry my comment showed a separatist, dividing attitude. This is not my intention. Everybody on this community belongs IMO.

I shouldn't generalize. Not all boomers are pro-life (or anti-choice), or asked nor agreed to be dealt shitty hands in the world we live in and also may be very nice people.

Not that this excuses it, I got caught up in the moment because I'm angry with the fixers and also someone earlier in this thread made a really good argument about how boomers contributed to some of the most soul destroying societal systems that are in place today, which make my life directly difficult. My parent is a boomer too so that could also have something to do with it. Once again - this doesn't excuse it, just some context.

If you're listening, sorry @bubugurl

Sweet of you to apologize. This world has, though, been screwed up for a very long time - since long before the Boomers got involved with "further" screwing things up.
I'm Pro-Choice, Pro-Weed, Pro Universal Health Care and pro anything else that will help the citizens of this world. I'm 65 years old and 6 years into a chronic health condition that brought me to this site. I'm still me though - 65 years of age or not.
No hard feelings toward you whatsoever.

 

[waiting4thenextbus]

I wouldn't worry too much though regarding their ancounements that this website will go down soon. They have done this for the last 3 years and they have exhausted pretty much all options. That NYT article was their last shot in my opinion. There is no indication that this website will be gone in the near future. It's a coping mechanism. The idea that we could be gone soon is empty hope after 3 years of intense work to get us from the internet with no results. They're doing this to keep themselves on track.

That's reassuring, thanks for calming our nerves! If they somehow do manage to shut it down, would we be able to create a backup of this on the deepweb? I know there used to be a deepweb site but it's gone now.

 

[RainAndSadness]

What you're doing is discriminating people. It's called ageism and, for some reason, it's growing in the internet lately

Boomer as an internet-slang doesn't describe old people, it describes the mindset of old people if I'm not mistaken. That's why young people started to respond to hateful or close-minded beliefs with "ok boomer", very often these people aren't even in the age bracket of so-called baby-boomers. Anyone can be a boomer at this point.

 

[waiting4thenextbus]

Sweet of you to apologize. This world has, though, been screwed up for a very long time - since long before the Boomers got involved with "further" screwing things up.
I'm Pro-Choice, Pro-Weed, Pro Universal Health Care and pro anything else that will help the citizens of this world. I'm 65 years old and 6 years into a chronic health condition that brought me to this site. I'm still me though - 65 years of age or not.
No hard feelings toward you whatsoever.

I was actually wondering about you, I felt really bad after I realized where I went wrong... Thanks for speaking up

Interesting point you make, and completely true. The world has probably always been screwed up . It's awesome that you're vouching for the people of the world. I wish more people on the planet had your mindset!

Very sorry to hear about your chronic condition and your reason for being here. I'm sure it brings you a lot of pain and heartache. I can relate to chronic illness unfortunately and it's also one of the reasons why I'm here..

Well, I've certainly got your back if you need anything - I'll help where I can. I see you're new to the site so when you're allowed to, PM me if you need tips about anything. Hugs!

 

[Symbiote]

Boomer as an internet-slang doesn't describe old people, it describes the mindset of old people if I'm not mistaken. That's why young people started to respond to hateful or close-minded beliefs with "ok boomer", very often these people aren't even in the age bracket of so-called baby-boomers. Anyone can be a boomer at this point.

We all gonna be boomers one day whenever we grow old, complain about today's music, and how the next generation had more privileges than us. Plus they didn't have to wait in the cold for the school bus to pick them up, nah, in the future they'll be teleported to school.

 

[Still Flutter Girl]

I lost my old login (under just plain "Flutter Girl" bc, I was only logging in on private to avoid this very demonization of SaSu), and hadn't saved my login info. Doubt those in my life would care to look at my phone, anyway

I tried my best, but being forced to do so on my own always ends the same way. I'm hoping to get past SI and be gone within the next month.

As someone else said, maybe these people should've paid attention to their own kids' situations instead of trying to displace this all onto us. I'm sure a good number of them are behind the BS scare-mongering threads on SN and other methods.

Funny how no one wants to listen or help those of us that could be helped…they only restrict our means of relieving our pain. It's phony, it's projection, and I'm beyond over it
Oh GOD, I just looked it up on Twitter.

These kinds of people are the utter and complete worst, and remind me a lot of autism martyr parents. They hate that they can't control what others do, and tend to care more about what other people think of them - using a fight against SaSu as social currency - rather than truly trying to help others. I'm sure that my own mother will be working on damage control more than anything else after I'm gone.

A lot of people here are poor and disabled…where is the outreach?? Put your money where your mouth is or shut it, Kelli

 

[Dot]

No1 els cn rply 2 thr twts
Sys evrythng rlly

 

[Chinaski]

She has about a hundred followers and only two people engage with her tweets anyway, presumably everyone else has muted her by now.

 

[chocolatebar]

Boomer as an internet-slang doesn't describe old people, it describes the mindset of old people if I'm not mistaken. That's why young people started to respond to hateful or close-minded beliefs with "ok boomer", very often these people aren't even in the age bracket of so-called baby-boomers. Anyone can be a boomer at this point.

I see that trend too, but I also see age-related hate spreading over the internet, from both age ends.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

No1 els cn rply 2 thr twts
Sys evrythng rlly

I can think of one way to reply to that bitch's first question: It's kinda hard to be an activist from inside the Quiet Room.

After reading through all of her tweets, any sympathy that I felt for her the other day is gone now. This Kelli Wilson is only in it to boost her own ego. She's the one using her son's death as a weapon, not us.

Why can't we just start our own barrage against them on Twitter ourselves? We all have something to say about this and our thoughts and opinions on CTB are just as, or more, valid that theirs, since it will affect us directly when our choice is made. I think in this kind of a circumstance, sitting on the sidelines is not the way to go. I think interjecting into their conversations about what we think is the way to go.

How many of us would have to be there for this to make a difference? Would it even help?

 

[Still Flutter Girl]

View attachment 94394
View attachment 94395
No1 els cn rply 2 thr twts
Sys evrythng rlly

What's epic is how she thinks things like the NYT article were some kind of big win…meanwhile that article is how I *found* SS

 

[Shu]

What's epic is how she thinks things like the NYT article were some kind of big win…meanwhile that article is how I *found* SS

May I ask how you found SS through that article?

 

[Cathy Ames]

May I ask how you found SS through that article?

This should be a gift link.

Where the Despairing Log On, and Learn Ways to Die

It has the trappings of popular social media, a young audience and explicit content on suicide that other sites don’t allow. It is linked to a long line of lives cut short.

www.nytimes.com

Scroll down through the interactive. It says...
'"Please help me," she wrote, joining the calls of other parents for Marquis and Serge to be held accountable and for the banning of the site, called Sanctioned Suicide.'

The article also explicitly mentioned SN. Oops.

 

[Still Flutter Girl]

May I ask how you found SS through that article?

Through Google. I was already looking up methods, frustrated that I couldn't access or afford N or gases, and found that article.

I feel like it mentioned the site by name, but don't remember…my memory is shit with Long COVID.

In any case, it's what led me here. It actually helped me find what I was looking for (a method that I find acceptable…SN).

 

[Mocon33]

May I ask how you found SS through that article?

I also had never heard of SS until I read the NYT article, I found this place through google. I initially sympathized with the articles writer but after spending some time here realized they really misrepresented the place, I believe it does much more good than harm.

 

[Shu]

I also had never heard of SS until I read the NYT article, I found this place through google. I initially sympathized with the articles writer but after spending some time here realized they really misrepresented the place, I believe it does much more good than harm.

Which article?

Through Google. I was already looking up methods, frustrated that I couldn't access or afford N or gases, and found that article.

I feel like it mentioned the site by name, but don't remember…my memory is shit with Long COVID.

In any case, it's what led me here. It actually helped me find what I was looking for (a method that I find acceptable…SN).

How did you know about N before learning more about SaSu? Did you know about the PPeH or something?