Discussion Taking a step back

[SmollMushroom]

I think I finally realise one of the things I've been doing wrong for all these years.
I never take a step back in a discussion if I know for a fact that I'm right.
I come to no compromises. Nonetheless I say I'm wrong. Nothing, I just sit on my point.

My therapist says that this is wrong, and that's why I struggle so much at socializing.
That I shouldn't idealize other people and assume that they will agree with me purely on the fact that I'm objectively right.
They say that I should turn the situation in my advantage, and that that's how the "adult" world works.

For exemple, if you argue with your mom for one thing even if you know she's wrong, you should still say: it's my fault, I'm sorry. I'll be better. Even if you know she was wrong.

And it is so hard for me because I'm a logic/rational person. So I told my therapist that I didn't like it. That it feels like manipulation and that I'd rather be honest. They said I'm stubborn and repeated me that that's how society works.
The problem is that, I start thinking they are right...
Always proving to be right, brought me here. I lost so many friends over fights that I can no longer remember just for the sake of justice.
Because I was in the right, so they should have apologized, right? Wrong... Well it appears to be wrong now...

What you guys think? You think it's always better to take a stand if you know you're right, even if you would have to fight your dearests over it, or not?

 

[Abandoned Character]

You would benefit from learning about the structure of the Rogerian argument, outlined by psychologist Carl Rogers. My understanding is that it goes like this:

1. Present the problem that needs to be solved (framed as a collaborative effort, not a combative one)
2. Reiterate their argument in your own words (if you do not agree on how they feel, how can you proceed?)
3. Communicate that you understand their position (they are, after all, a rational, thinking and feeling being, you would be foolish to think there is nothing valid in their position)
4. Explain your position, having now shown that the other side is also heard.

Just spitballing here, but this structure emphasizes the importance of empathy, patience, and focus when it comes to conflict resolution. Do not get sidetracked with ad hominem and irrelevant data. Focus on the problem, as an issue that we must solve together. Take from this what you will.

ALSO, side note, in my opinion your therapist is very imposing, which is unlike what they are trained to do. "That's just how society works"? Maybe there's more to it , but I totally disagree, what a silly thing for a professional to say! Who knows though, I'm just some guy.

 

[SmollMushroom]

You would benefit from learning about the structure of the Rogerian argument, outlined by psychologist Carl Rogers. My understanding is that it goes like this:

1. Present the problem that needs to be solved (framed as a collaborative effort, not a combative one)
2. Reiterate their argument in your own words (if you do not agree on how they feel, how can you proceed?)
3. Communicate that you understand their position (they are, after all, a rational, thinking and feeling being, you would be foolish to think there is nothing valid in their position)
4. Explain your position, having now shown that the other side is also heard.

Just spitballing here, but this structure emphasizes the importance of empathy, patience, and focus when it comes to conflict resolution. Do not get sidetracked with ad hominem and irrelevant data. Focus on the problem, as an issue that we must solve together. Take from this what you will.

ALSO, side note, in my opinion your therapist is very imposing, which is unlike what they are trained to do. "That's just how society works"? Maybe there's more to it , but I totally disagree, what a silly thing for a professional to say! Who knows though, I'm just some guy.

Seems simple enough on paper, but in practice I think I already fail at point 1. I become very passionate when I'm sure to be right. That definitely can be perceived as combative effort by someone.

Regarding my therapist yeah, I don't know how to feel about them.
I've talked about them a bit more extensively on this thread - but I can agree that they seem a bit oppressive at times. Unfortunately they are my only choice atm.

 

[tiltherainstops]

So to people correctly, we have to apologize and take accountability even when we weren't in the wrong? The math ain't mathin.

There is definitely worth in presenting your side of things in a way that is better received, or to know which hills to die on. But that sounds like weird advice, especially from a therapist. I'm sorry the relationship is so off and you're sorta stuck with them.

 

[SmollMushroom]

So to people correctly, we have to apologize and take accountability even when we weren't in the wrong? The math ain't mathin.

There is definitely worth in presenting your side of things in a way that is better received, or to know which hills to die on. But that sounds like weird advice, especially from a therapist. I'm sorry the relationship is so off and you're sorta stuck with them.

Yeah. I think their approach with me comes from the fact that they know what situation I'm in, which is better described on this thread - and that I'm very vulnerable in this moment, therefore I'm not in the position of voicing my opinions, no matter what, even if I'm right. At least that is my understanding of it, even if I don't agree at all.

 

[tiltherainstops]

Yeah. I think their approach with me comes from the fact that they know what situation I'm in, which is better described on this thread - and that I'm very vulnerable in this moment, therefore I'm not in the position of voicing my opinions, no matter what, even if I'm right. At least that is my understanding of it, even if I don't agree at all.

That makes more sense with some context. That sounds like a rough situation. Although your therapist generalizing to all of society is a bit much. I'm part of society and MUCH prefer when people are real with me.

 

[SmollMushroom]

That makes more sense with some context. That sounds like a rough situation. Although your therapist generalizing to all of society is a bit much. I'm part of society and MUCH prefer when people are real with me.

Oh yeah, he's definitely real with me... Maybe even too much real. Up to the point that makes only feel me more depressed about my life.
But it's also true that mine can be surely considered a rough situation, I wouldn't be on this forum otherwise ç.ç

 

[puella]

The person you're arguing with likely also thinks they're right. It's very good to take a step back, and just empathize with the person. You don't have to lie and say you think you're wrong. Just say you value the other person and their opinions, and try to move on.

 

[Foreverix]

Hey Smoll

I've learned to take this road quite a bit: even if I feel or know that I'm right, I will concede to the other person just to avoid bickering or some other unwanted outcome I may not want to deal with. You're right, it is a form of manipulation. But I, in general, don't care about manipulating others in small ways because 1. it can make things easier for me and serve me, and 2. they're probably manipulating me in their own way as well. So I might as well steer conversations or arguments to work for me when I can.

Edit: caught up on your other threads. Clearly your therapist is kind of a dick, but very blunt. The balance of power is clearly not in your favor within your home life. If you can't find a way to leverage the situation, then you may have to find a way to change the situation altogether and adapt. In general, your therapist is right that you will have to open up with people more to be able to establish real relationships. I'm not a fan of this either, it often sucks, but it can pay off if you're able to learn to do it.

Being drugged up on a ward isn't going to solve your issues and would be far from a recovery. Finding a life where you live off the government and sequester yourself probably isn't going to be as easy either, though it may seem comfortable now. You can try to escape all these things that make you really anxious. Or, like your dick therapist recommends, you can lean into those anxieties and try to learn from them. If a path to recovery is what you want, I would follow the latter path, as painful as it may feel.

But that's easier said than done. So I'll take a step back.

 

[SmollMushroom]

Hey Smoll

I've learned to take this road quite a bit: even if I feel or know that I'm right, I will concede to the other person just to avoid bickering or some other unwanted outcome I may not want to deal with. You're right, it is a form of manipulation. But I, in general, don't care about manipulating others in small ways because 1. it can make things easier for me and serve me, and 2. they're probably manipulating me in their own way as well. So I might as well steer conversations or arguments to work for me when I can.

Edit: caught up on your other threads. Clearly your therapist is kind of a dick, but very blunt. The balance of power is clearly not in your favor within your home life. If you can't find a way to leverage the situation, then you may have to find a way to change the situation altogether and adapt. In general, your therapist is right that you will have to open up with people more to be able to establish real relationships. I'm not a fan of this either, it often sucks, but it can pay off if you're able to learn to do it.

Being drugged up on a ward isn't going to solve your issues and would be far from a recovery. Finding a life where you live off the government and sequester yourself probably isn't going to be as easy either, though it may seem comfortable now. You can try to escape all these things that make you really anxious. Or, like your dick therapist recommends, you can lean into those anxieties and try to learn from them. If a path to recovery is what you want, I would follow the latter path, as painful as it may feel.

But that's easier said than done. So I'll take a step back.

Hi! First of all, thank you for going through my other threads! I really appriciate it and it proofs you really wanted to give me your best advice!

About communication, I admit that the older I get the more I am understanding the point of it. After all, we humans have developed a way to talk to one another for what reason, if not expressing our needs and necessities? Under a certain perspective, one could say that every form of communication has a underlevel of manipulation beneath it. I guess we all learned how to use it and defend us from it while growing up, except me, as I lived most of my life as a recluded hikikomori.

Even tho my therapist said that it's time for me to observe communication in a more adult way, the fact that they aslo say that manipulative people is also easily subject of manipulation still sends a shiver down my spine. I guess I just don't like it... The whole idea of how communication, and for extension society works, where you always have to wear a mask and use everyone around you for your own good to succeed... I'll never get accustomed to that.

I guess I fell behind in all of this during the years - I still act surprise when people try to read between the lines of what I say (that's another thing that I don't do and I don't understand), as I'm generally very honest when I talk. But some people get mad at me because when they try to find some other meaning in what I say, and can't (because there isn't) then they assume I'm lying.

It's all so absurd to me.
I made a test online and it gave me results that I might be partially on the spectrum - like not completely autistic but half way there. And that would explain soooooooooo many things. BUT my dick therapist says I'm fine. And honestly I think they only say that because they want me to play their game.

Oh one last thing - I heard from a very reliable source (someone who went through it) that open wards in Germany are not that bad!
So that could be an option too, if things go very bad!