Suicide prevention is evil

[Chinaski]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/anybody-like-watching-jordan-peterson-talks-on-youtube.10355/

Pulpit once saw this Jordan Peterson thread on the go and couldn't wait to stick it to the lefty libtard generation snowflake whatever, it didn't quite go to plan, since then he's done the usual schtick of jumping into threads I'm in with deliberately provocative crap and then cried bullying when he gets decisively shown the door, here is another example of him pulling the same stunt:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/posts/235232/

To reiterate, safe haven for discussing ctb? Yeah. Safe haven for this shit? Nah.

 

[Johnnythefox]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/anybody-like-watching-jordan-peterson-talks-on-youtube.10355/

Pulpit once saw this Jordan Peterson thread on the go and couldn't wait to stick it to the lefty libtard generation snowflake whatever, it didn't quite go to plan, since then he's done the usual schtick of jumping into threads I'm in with deliberately provocative crap and then cried bullying when he gets decisively shown the door, here is another example of him pulling the same stunt:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/posts/235232/

To reiterate, safe haven for discussing ctb? Yeah. Safe haven for this shit? Nah.

You're right again mate, I was going to dig those out but couldn't be arsed.

 

[lululoo]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/anybody-like-watching-jordan-peterson-talks-on-youtube.10355/

Pulpit once saw this Jordan Peterson thread on the go and couldn't wait to stick it to the lefty libtard generation snowflake whatever, it didn't quite go to plan, since then he's done the usual schtick of jumping into threads I'm in with deliberately provocative crap and then cried bullying when he gets decisively shown the door, here is another example of him pulling the same stunt:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/posts/235232/

To reiterate, safe haven for discussing ctb? Yeah. Safe haven for this shit? Nah.

I see there is more crap going on than I was aware of. I think I jumped in before pulpit joined the scene, though. But anyway, I do not condone the alt-right bullshit at all. I had just reached my boiling point with a trend I had noticed on this site which I think extends beyond just threads with alt-right or alt-right-adjacent content.

 

[Chinaski]

I see there is more crap going on than I was aware of. I think I jumped in before pulpit joined the scene, though. But anyway, I do not condone the alt-right bullshit at all. I had just reached my boiling point with a trend I had noticed on this site which I think extends beyond just threads with alt-right or alt-right-adjacent content.

I think my first challenging engagement to you was in reply to you taking obvious offence at me referring to Pulpit in rather direct pejorative terms, which is essentially what led to this derailment; and I'll be honest here and say clearly that l see a very different trend, one visibly exhibited by others in this thread, but l guess we're going to have to accept our disagreement there.

 

[Choice]

Very strange for someone who registers on a Saturday to be saying this so soon after registering, especially for someone who "isn't here enough to give a fuck". We've clearly met before.

I am completely obvious, mate, and you know it. I'm here for a decent reason, and make absolutely no apologies. Why should I? Don't cry about it if it upsets you, make a fucking report and get me seen off. That's clearly an easy thing to do.

Btw I'm never going to be "kind" to alt-right types anywhere, and this includes those who pour their dreadful politics on here, the fact that it's a suicide forum should not give that shit a pass, if people (and it's usually the same ones here) are going to present their more controversial political opinions so enthusiastically and obnoxiously it's perfectly acceptable to push back against it. But you know this already.

You forgot to read all the words in my post. I said sure, have a go at dickheads, fair game mate, and fwiw I agree totally about alt right losers, particularly misogynistic bullying ones.

Check my post though - the one that offended you with the cute lobster story. I was replying to Lululou, as it happens. Then ffs read what I actually said in the subsequent post to you.

Did you even read Lululou's previous posts when she was offering her opinions and trying to join the "conversation"? She was non aggressive, and had some thoughtful things to say. She ventured to disagree with you, which I thought showed a fair amount of guts. You just verbally beat her up. Why would you do that? That's what I don't get.

Mate, like I said, when you get angry and wound up, it looks like you've only got one gear. Attack. Not every discussion is a competition, and you don't need to go for soft targets just to entertain your many supporters here. You're also smart enough not to have to go for cheap shots. It lets you down imo when you do.

 

[Choice]

Yeah I don't know if it's because I really only skimmed some of the posts but I did not catch on to all that going on. And I'm not going to dig into every poster's history to find out if they are misogynist or alt-right or whatever.

You absolutely did not deserve being attacked and ridiculed. I read what you were posting, agreed with somethings and disagreed with other things, but I was genuinely shocked when I came to the reactions you got. Yeah, that alt right dickhead and a couple of others have an appalling history on this forum, but you are just a normal person genuinely trying to say something. I'm sorry that that happened to you.

Why not name who it is directed at? If people are going to enter this "safe haven" to splutter barely legible, half-baked opinions it's absolutely fair enough that they'll be assessed on it and perhaps expected to defend it. This whole "where is the empathy / compassion? This is a SUICIDE FORUM, it's a SAFE HAVEN!" horseshit could perhaps be better directed at the folks who trot out puerile alt-right crap, misogynistic bitterness, snake-oilers on the make, the numerous alts of weird stalkers, the fakers, the phoneys, the outright and obvious liars, than it is at those who simply post in a style which you personally dislike.

I couldn't believe I was reading this, directed at you by someone who should know better. And fwiw, you definitely didn't splutter.

I think soundness of an argument is very important. I wouldn't disagree with your argument and agree with someone else just because you expressed yourself unkindly. All I am addressing is that I disagree with a certain manner of expressing opinions. I am not saying that the other person wins the argument because they didn't call you an idiot.

Trust me I am also bothered by certain crazy political views found here. But I doubt that responding aggressively is what will stamp them out.

I'm going to stop now, don't have it in me for this.

I felt sad when you posted this and politely said you were going to stop because you didn't have it in you. You being pushed into this corner is a fucking disgrace to this forum and all those supporters who cheered on a bully. The barking pissfighters drove you out of the discussion. You've got more dignity than the lot of them put together.

 

[Redt2go]

How do you guys write so much? Are y'all on laptops?

 

[Boochky]

How do you guys write so much? Are y'all on laptops?

For real, though.

 

[OfficerK]

How do you guys write so much? Are y'all on laptops?

 

[Chinaski]

I am completely obvious, mate, and you know it. I'm here for a decent reason, and make absolutely no apologies.

The first bit is correct, l agree. The second part is false. We both know that your purpose for being here is to bring your own personal gripe which l didn't understand a week ago and certainly don't fathom now, I'm genuinely not fucking interested in it.

 

[Choice]

The second part is false. We both know that your purpose for being here is to bring your own personal gripe which l didn't understand a week ago and certainly don't fathom now, I'm genuinely not fucking interested in it.

Oh dear. You think you actually know, and you're not interested? Well, fuck, I should leave then.

Seriously mate, you're going way over the top as the king shit around here. And fwiw, I think it's a good thing that someone bothers to keep an eye our for a scammer who keeps coming back. Then in this thread I was not impressed with how someone like Lululoo was being bulldozed. I make absolutely no apologies for these things. You are so enraged, you've been angry this entire thread way before I was here, and now you turn up and throw weird shit at me?

Jesus, you really don't like someone disagreeing with you, do you? You just don't cope if someone stands up to you. That's not good at all. Never mind though, I'm done with this thread. Go make some report and get me removed if it makes you happier.

 

[JustAboutDone]

That would be a shame as I think you are a valuable contributor @Choice and an expert in spotting trolls and master of methods involving snake venom. Please stay.

 

[Chinaski]

Go make some report and get me removed if it makes you happier.

You say this as if, like, I'm some kind of reporter of shit posts. Not enraged btw, just genuinely confused by your weird inconsistency dude/bro.

"You only have one gear, which is both angry and also funny", says the person who is siding with someone who seeks to tone police the way in which right-wing trolls are dealt with, and yet took a very different view in this thread which was on a similar theme:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...because-life-is-not-a-duty.11468/#post-224532

Seriously, what the fuck are you actually doing, and why?

 

[JustAboutDone]

Actually although I do hate you @Chinaski
because you just are not huggy enough, I do have a modicum of cap doffing for the fact you don't report posts - none of this, "I'm reporting you for being childish"

Which is a good thing imo

 

[JustAboutDone]

Moving back to the original topic. Given that a number of posters to the forum struggle with everyday living and employment and the low self-esteem that comes with a range of depression and poor health, both mental and physical, I can't help but wonder whether a uniform wage - rather than "suicide free for all" is a more compassionate and helpful way forward.

It's appalling to read what people have to go through to try and apply for disability benefits for mental ill health. It's a very strange juxtaposition to make someone already anxious and stressed do something that will lead to greater stress and anxiety in order to gain a very small amount of money to survive on.

 

[Chinaski]

It's appalling to read what people have to go through to try and apply for disability benefits for mental ill health. It's a very strange juxtaposition to make someone already anxious and stressed do something that will lead to greater stress and anxiety in order to gain a very small amount of money to survive on.

It's apt that you mention this because those people undergoing disability assessment in the UK are the ones who spring to mind whenever the argument is made, which feels almost daily, that a "truly compassionate society" would make a swift and painless death readily accessible to those same people.Personally l think a vision of a "compassionate" society sgould be one that doesn't implement government policy which literally drives people to suicide, rather than one that aids its own social cleansing under a guise of "compassion".

I also have similar reservations about the implementation of a UBI, as you suggest in the first paragraph; l can foresee an implementation in the UK making the poorest worse off in real terms when essential public services are dismantled or sold off as a result, but that's a wider discussion.

 

[JustAboutDone]

That's what concerned me about the concept of a "suicide booth" available at a GP surgery
- would it lead to certain elderly people with complex health needs feeling as if they *should* be "put down" to somehow make way for others? It's rather a terrifying prospect :-/

 

[Chinaski]

That's what concerned me about the concept of a "suicide booth" available at a GP surgery
- would it lead to certain elderly people with complex health needs feeling as if they *should* be "put down" to somehow make way for others? It's rather a terrifying prospect :-/

Exactly that. Then there are people here who suggest that The Markets take care of it, thus leading G4S et al to not only cut your benefits, but also kill you in the aftermath. Absolutely ridiculous imo.

 

[JustAboutDone]

@Chinaski talk me through the flaw in the prospect of a universal payment for all (not benefit claimants but for every citizen) was it Denmark or Finland? Somewhere was trialing it at some stage.

 

[Chinaski]

@Chinaski talk me through the flaw in the prospect of a universal payment for all (not benefit claimants but for every citizen) was it Denmark or Finland? Somewhere was trialing it at some stage.

I think as a concept it has great merit and is often propelled by those who see it as a genuinely progressive step, but l can't personally get fully behind it without assurance that the framework of public services currently provided, most of which introduced by the Attlee government's transformative implementation of the findings of the Beveridge Report ("from the cradle to the grave") and which successive governments, both Tories and Labour, have been slowly dismantling are to be preserved. A UBI is only great with a fully funded and functioning NHS, appropriate public sector housing, social care for the elderly and infirm, etc etc. A UBI would be utilised as a great step towards dismantling all of this, the notion being that now the poorest are materially better off they no longer need the "nanny state" but can compete for essential public service provisions which would be provided by an unscrupulous private sector and acts as a get out clause from societal and community responsibility and passes this further on to the individual. I'm not throwing UBI out as a concept, I'm just very cautious about it and don't feel convinced atm that it would deliver for people who advocate for it in the way they hope it would.

Tl;dr - UBI is capitalism adapting in order to survive, as it tends to do, and l need to know the extent of this before fully supporting it.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Yes, that totally makes sense as you have explained it - and given the cuts we have witnessed we literally have proof that the things people depend on for both education and survival; schools, surestart centres, libraries, the NHS are not "sacred" and will just be dismantled, piecemeal, in a manner that no one notices until it's too late.

 

[Choice]

You say this as if, like, I'm some kind of reporter of shit posts. Not enraged btw, just genuinely confused by your weird inconsistency dude/bro.

"You only have one gear, which is both angry and also funny", says the person who is siding with someone who seeks to tone police the way in which right-wing trolls are dealt with, and yet took a very different view in this thread which was on a similar theme:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...because-life-is-not-a-duty.11468/#post-224532

Seriously, what the fuck are you actually doing, and why?

That's just a stupid question, and unnecessarily provocative.

The only thing, the very only thing I did was to step in to defend Lululoo. You already have had your answer, many times. She got slapped down by you in a way that was astonishingly hostile and rude. Her reaction showed she had been intimidated but she tried to hold her ground nevertheless, and she did this with dignity. I specifically made the point that dealing with dickheads is good, and was not what I was talking about. You then turned on me and rubbished my first post, for no reason. You went full attack. I don't understand that type of response at all.

You keep making it about something else. It's not about anything else. Do you really still not see that? Are you still reacting to someone pulling you up for misplaced aggression? It's like you are refusing, with grim determination, not to read my words, but rather you want me to put me in the same weirdo basket as the person you have been mainly arguing with. Whatever. Big thumbs up for you, good shot mate.

The fact remains that you really did dump hostility on Lululoo, and she was driven out of the discussion for no reason at all. She was trying to stand up for herself, and you squashed her. You are popular here, for good reason, and get applauded for your posts, generally for good reason.

But what you did is just not ok imo. Maybe it takes a different person to you to recognise and respond appropriately to someone who is saying hey, this is not not the way to behave to decent people. Strong guys do that. It's not a weakness. Like I said, you've showed you've got a shit load of anger and you got triggered. That's fucking obvious. I'm sorry that happened. I'm just as sorry that you don't see it. You're never wrong, are you?

That would be a shame as I think you are a valuable contributor @Choice and an expert in spotting trolls and master of methods involving snake venom. Please stay.

Thanks, and I was not planning on leaving, though I could be removed very easily by any dickhead who imagines I looked at them sideways. And no, I don't really think Chinaski is the sneaky reporting sort tbh, though it happens here and it is definitely effective.

 

[Chinaski]

That's just a stupid question, and unnecessarily provocative.

The only thing, the very only thing I did was to step in to defend Lululoo. You already have had your answer, many times. She got slapped down by you in a way that was astonishingly hostile and rude. Her reaction showed she had been intimidated but she tried to hold her ground nevertheless, and she did this with dignity. I specifically made the point that dealing with dickheads is good, and was not what I was talking about. You then turned on me and rubbished my first post, for no reason. You went full attack. I don't understand that type of response at all.

But that's clearly not what is going on here, is it? The "I'm only here with noble intentions to protect people from scammers" line might work better if that's what you were actually doing, rather than jumping into a thread to settle a personal grudge based on something external to this forum, firstly with a babble about child sex abuse, then some peculiar penis/lobster mush in order to support the notion of tone-policing when dealing with trolls, which is something you've clearly cared little for in previous postings, and that's fair enough imo, given it holds little weight - but this inconsistency, whilst certainly establishing that you have more than one gear, is a bit of a giveaway.

 

[Chinaski]

I've read through this thread. You've made several thoughtful and genuine contributions. However, you've been shouted over and talked down to.

Tbh I think you're doing it wrong. If you want to play in threads like this, may I suggest the following:

1. This is a pissing contest. If you don't have a penis, you are not going to do very well at all. You just aren't. Please leave.
2. Opinions are not acceptable. Only facts and logic count. Sensible comments are irritating, and they get in the way of, you know, pissing. If you can't play the game, pull up your girls pants and go home now.
3. Size matters. If you have a smallish penis, use really big words and no-one will notice. Or waggle your testicles around in a cute and endearing manner. Everyone will love you.
4. Don't be reasonable, and don't be courteous. Jesus, that's just lame, and plain embarrassing.
5. Be angry and aggressive and funny. Don't be a snowflake. Snowflakes don't have dicks and so, duh, can't play the game.
6. You must have a really big penis to smack everyone else down. When they are down, sneak up behind them and use your quite large testicles to smother them. Hahaha. So funny. Testicles are tools.
7. The last man to shake his dick is the winner.

This is how the game works. Pls pay attention.

"You went full attack, l don't understand this response at all", well this is the post l replied to and I'm really not sure what you were expecting in reply to that tbh, but l suspect this performative flapping about my retaliatory discourtesy is a tad fucking disingenuous.

 

[Pulpit2018]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/anybody-like-watching-jordan-peterson-talks-on-youtube.10355/

Pulpit once saw this Jordan Peterson thread on the go and couldn't wait to stick it to the lefty libtard generation snowflake whatever, it didn't quite go to plan, since then he's done the usual schtick of jumping into threads I'm in with deliberately provocative crap and then cried bullying when he gets decisively shown the door, here is another example of him pulling the same stunt:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/posts/235232/

To reiterate, safe haven for discussing ctb? Yeah. Safe haven for this shit? Nah.

Ok,so since you went personal,i am supposed to accept this role of right-wing troll you have framed me in?
Hell no,i return it to you.
You are the number one dirt thrower in this forum.
I stand by everything i have said,included the post where you defend a criminal.
If you offer no safe haven to others,i offer no safe haven to you either Chinaski.
I will be there to criticize if you throw controversial stuff (and you do) out.You are not the only one with that role you know.
Plus plenty of people disagree with you on the issue at hand in this thread (availability of suicide),so i am not some lone troll stiring things up,sorry.
I am sure a lot of people are tired of your constant dismissive and cynic remarks towards others,and would like to see you taken down a notch.

I am still waiting for the arguments against a suicide clinic.Those remarks about people being intentionally killed off against their will are a bit ridiculous and over the top.Anything better?

 

[Chinaski]

I am sure a lot of people are tired of your constant dismissive and cynic remarks towards others,and would like to see you taken down a notch.

I doubt Choice wants or needs you as an ally, so don't get your hopes up.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

What do you propose here? A free to use Dignitas clinic at every GP surgery? Seriously, this site is littered with so much of this abject bullshit about how Society ls Evil for not making death accessible yet it's always couched in vague cod-philiosophy and devoid of any practical suggestions for progress in this regard that l find it hard to take seriously at all.

Why don't you make a fucking argument? You were the one dismissing the man (who has lost his brother to suicide btw) without even watching the video. You revealed your bigotry a few posts later by dismissing him for having a drum kit and a guitar in his apartment. Another poster dismissed him for his hairdo. Is this the intellectual elite of sanctioned suicide?

It's a simple argument we're making and it's not a pro-suicide argument, it's a pro-choice stance. Paternalizing people and dismissing them by calling them teenagers or cod-philosophers just shows your own inability to use your brain for what it's intended for...

To make arguments. So do you have any counter arguments to the man's claims?

I know this is an old post btw but who gives a damn seems you're still active on the site.

Tl;dr: we all hate these god damn pro lifers, but none of us can agree on what that criteria should be when applying for a free, cosy, comfy-yet-suitably-dramatic exit at our local government sanctioned dignitas kiosk.

Btw such a clinic differs a great deal from drugs, alcohol and even firearms in the way it can be abused, this is an absolutely lunk-headed false equivalence.

We can agree. Many people have thought this through and it is quite easy actually: 1) an age barrier has to be established 2) a waiting period of six months to a year, where the person has to continuously express the wish to die. We could, for example, invite them every two or four weeks and make them sign a form saying "I, chinaski, still firmly have the desire to die at the set date of blablabla".

And saying this would be too expensive for society is just such a cynical stupid thing to say. Dear chinaski, please use your brain once in a while: how do the costs compare, do you think, of giving someone 30 odd of what used to be very common, cheap to produce, sleeping pills to the cost of health care, infrastructure, and on and on the person will require if he makes it into old age. Ridiculous to make such an argument.

It's that simple but it doesn't seem like you have thought about it much anyway.
.

But we won't even sell them the pills for profit! No one is asking for the straw man scenario you portrayed here. People would be satisfied if they could go to their doctor and buy 30 Nembutal pills for a reasonable price and be done with it.