Suicide prevention is evil

[DoneFighting]

This thread is more confusing and fucked up than my mind is lmao. Wtf is going on here?

 

[Chinaski]

This thread is more confusing and fucked up than my mind is lmao. Wtf is going on here?

People who aren't overtly pro-suicide are an absolute stain on humanity, but the theme from MASH is quite good.

 

[Johnnythefox]

MASH is quite good.

 

[Mrs.O'Leary'sCow]

View attachment 7815

That's funny and apt.

 

[Final Escape]

This video is really good, and it should have more views. Pretty much summarized why suicide prevention (in most cases, not necessarily impulsive, irrational acts) is horrible and only makes the suicidal's lives worse (more medical debt, shit treatment, violation of dignity and rights, and more). This guy is really eloquent in his speech and explanation. I feel like I relate to this guy in so many ways and pretty much agree with just about everything he said.

Also, here are some other videos that he has regarding suicide.

Death with dignity


His additional vlog in regards to suicide and logical thinking

Those are pretty good. I agree with most of it

 

[Mrs.O'Leary'sCow]

Never seen either the film or a single episode of the series tbh, but iirc the film is the first film to feature the word "fuck".

That doesn't surprise me (first use of "fuck" in a film). Shit was really hitting the fan over here (Stonewall riots, Kent State student murders, "The Beatles" grew long(er) hair and stopped being "cute," Black Panthers openly carrying firearms, et al.) and taboos were falling left and right. The counterculture needed a subversive critique of the Vietnam War and nothing was more subversive (at the time) than use of the "dirtiest" of the four letter words.

 

[JustAboutDone]

People who aren't overtly pro-suicide are an absolute stain on humanity, but the theme from MASH is quite good.

:-)

Would you please précis all the mega threats in the same way?

 

[Zzzzz]

What i mean is the line is blurry. Its subjective because by that logic if a 10 year old truly wants to die we should let them...

That's true . I'm not referring to minors or children, though. There are concerns regarding that. I think the age should be 18, or legal adult. There is no real reason why adults shouldn't have the right to choose a humane death.

 

[Zzzzz]

I think a lot of people are missing the main point the man is trying to make. People are commenting without even bothering to watch the video.Yes, saying suicide prevention is evil is provocative , and doesn't acknowledge the people that the movement saves. But likewise anyone who says that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the suicide prevention movement supports the idea that suicidal people deserve a cruel, inhumane death. What a cruel belief.

 

[Redt2go]

That's true . I'm not referring to minors or children, though. There are concerns regarding that. I think the age should be 18, or legal adult. There is no real reason why adults shouldn't have the right to choose a humane death.

Okay. Line is still blurry though....

 

[Zzzzz]

Who is a genuinely suicidal person, and who is not? ... I think some people should be careful on the way down from that narcissistic cloud they seem to be flying upon.

Do you have a mental illness? Do you want to be treated like an infant that doesn't know what's best for itself? There is a difference between having an illness and being crazy. Most mentally ill people are not crazy. Every bipolar person I have ever known IRL was completely capable of making important and rational decisions for themselves, despite their illness. They were fully aware that their mind had issues. That's precisely why many choose to kill themselves . They don't want to suffer anymore. This isn't as complicated as people make it out to be.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

Suicide prevention is never a good thing, no exception.

Reserves like : But what if it's a young person who is thankful afterwards for being saved ?

Are counter-acted by reserves like : But what if he suffers hell for 4 years afterwards regretting not having CTB when he has the will and the means to ? What if he gets cluster headache, or cancer, or some awful illness or debilitating mental pain afterwards ?

It's only by giving 0 value to the temporality of protracted suffering and considering life as something sacred a priori that the first type of reserve trumps the second one.

It's not like we aren't dying anyway, and it's not like a dead person can regret having rushed. But regretting not having CTB or living ? Happens all the time.

I'm not saying we should encourage people to CTB, but that they should be left to their own device.

 

[Zzzzz]

Okay. Line is still blurry though....

That's true. But I would be content if adults just had the right to choose. I see it as one step at a time. First legalize it for adults, then maybe figure out if 18 is really where that line should be. What are your thoughts on it?

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

That's true. But I would be content if adults just had the right to choose. I see it as one step at a time. First legalize it for adults, then maybe figure out if 18 is really where that line should be. What are your thoughts on it?

I agree with 18.

With exceptions made on case by case basis for people who are under 18, for instance someone who was suicidal since he was a six years old and lived in abject physical and mental pain.

But from 18, there should be no case by case basis, everyone should have the mean to do it whithout even justifying himself.

 

[Chinaski]

But from 18, there should be no case by case basis, everyone should have the mean to do it whithout even justifying himself.

They do. That is literally how it is, right now, for all of us.

 

[Zzzzz]

They do. That is literally how it is, right now, for all of us.

They can hang themselves. They can Shoot themselves. They can Jump in front of trains . Do you really believe they deserve these kinds of violent, inhumane deaths? Do you believe they don't deserve a more humane painless death? Why should society prohibit a compassionate ,humane death for these people?

 

[Chinaski]

They can hang themselves. They can Shoot themselves. They can Jump in front of trains . Do you really believe they deserve these kinds of violent, inhumane deaths? Do you believe they don't deserve a more humane painless death? Why should society prohibit a compassionate ,humane death?

The argument here seems to be, as always, that suicide is made difficult, deliberately so, by a mean and cruel society. This is just adolescent rubbish. Anyone who apparently hasn't ctb because Society / Pro Lifers is talking shit imo. When you want to go, you'll go, and you're at liberty to do so at any time.

 

[Zzzzz]

The argument here seems to be, as always, that suicide is made difficult, deliberately so, by a mean and cruel society. This is just adolescent rubbish. Anyone who apparently hasn't ctb because Society / Pro Lifers is talking shit imo. When you want to go, you'll go, and you're at liberty to do so at any time.

It doesn't matter if it's deliberate or not. Denying a humane death for human beings who are suffering is still unacceptable.

 

[Chinaski]

It doesn't matter if it's deliberate or not. Denying a humane death for human beings who are suffering is still unacceptable.

What do you propose here? A free to use Dignitas clinic at every GP surgery? Seriously, this site is littered with so much of this abject bullshit about how Society ls Evil for not making death accessible yet it's always couched in vague cod-philiosophy and devoid of any practical suggestions for progress in this regard that l find it hard to take seriously at all.

 

[Hopeless_soul]

Do you have a mental illness? Do you want to be treated like an infant that doesn't know what's best for itself? There is a difference between having an illness and being crazy. Most mentally ill people are not crazy. Every bipolar person I have ever known IRL was completely capable of making important and rational decisions for themselves, despite their illness. They were fully aware that their mind had issues. That's precisely why many choose to kill themselves . They don't want to suffer anymore. This isn't as complicated as people make it out to be.

I don't see how that is related to what I posted... Yes, I'm full aware of the fact that people with mental illnesses, including me, are capable of making important rational decisions.

 

[Zzzzz]

I don't see how that is related to what I posted... Yes, I'm full aware of the fact that people with mental illnesses, including me, are capable of making important rational decisions.

I'm saying that determining who is genuine and who is not would not be a very difficult thing. And that basically we should take someone's word for it.

 

[Zzzzz]

What do you propose here? A free to use Dignitas clinic at every GP surgery? Seriously, this site is littered with so much of this abject bullshit about how Society ls Evil for not making death accessible yet it's always couched in vague cod-philiosophy and devoid of any practical suggestions for progress in this regard that l find it hard to take seriously at all.

A dignitas clinic in every major city would be an fantastic idea.

 

[Chinaski]

A dignitas clinic in every major city would be an fantastic idea.

I have absolutely no problem with the broadening of accessibility to euthanasia for those who fit the required medical criteria. The problem l have is that this horseshit is not concerned with that issue, at all; it's a puerile rant about how Society somehow prevents people from committing suicide by, like, not painlessly euthanising anyone who simply asks for it.

 

[AveryConure]

Suicide prevention is never a good thing, no exception.

Reserves like : But what if it's a young person who is thankful afterwards for being saved ?

Are counter-acted by reserves like : But what if he suffers hell for 4 years afterwards regretting not having CTB when he has the will and the means to ? What if he gets cluster headache, or cancer, or some awful illness or debilitating mental pain afterwards ?

It's only by giving 0 value to the temporality of protracted suffering and considering life as something sacred a priori that the first type of reserve trumps the second one.

It's not like we aren't dying anyway, and it's not like a dead person can regret having rushed. But regretting not having CTB or living ? Happens all the time.

I'm not saying we should encourage people to CTB, but that they should be left to their own device.

So if anyone suddenly experiences any serious issue in their life they shouldn't bother trying to find other solutions to their problems and just be told "welp nothing we can do about yer cluster headaches ol chap off to Beachy Head with ya" and just go ahead and ctb cause hey why even try right

 

[Johnnythefox]

I have absolutely no problem with the broadening of accessibility to euthanasia for those who fit the required medical criteria. The problem l have is that this horseshit is not concerned with that issue, at all; it's a puerile rant about how Society somehow prevents people from committing suicide by, like, not painlessly euthanising anyone who simply asks for it.

Thank fek for your common sense mate, unfortunately it's something that can't be taught.

 

[Zzzzz]

I have absolutely no problem with the broadening of accessibility to euthanasia for those who fit the required medical criteria. The problem l have is that this horseshit is not concerned with that issue, at all; it's a puerile rant about how Society somehow prevents people from committing suicide by, like, not painlessly euthanising anyone who simply asks for it.

You don't have the right to decide if other adults deserve a compassionate death or not. You don't have the right to impose any "requirements " for a human to choose this. If any adult wants to die, they should be able to, easily and conveniently. As much as anyone who has terminal cancer. There's absolutely no reason this should not be the case.

I never said society prevents people from killing themselves, they don't. but they do prevent people from choosing humane deaths.

 

[TAW122]

Let me just reclarify my stance on this. Yes, I agree with the OP of that video himself and I still firmly believe that when he is lamenting and criticizing suicide prevention efforts as being 'evil' he is referring to the prevention of rational suicides, and people who have been suffering for a long period time with little chance or any relief. He isn't talking about some teenager or young child who had a bad day or temporary problem and just impulsively decides to commit suicide.

In response to the counter arguments and deciding where to draw the line in terms of allowing or giving permission for people to commit suicide, I would say any legal adult (18+ based on US law) who is able to consent, sign contracts, go to war, smoke/use tobacco products, etc. should have their word be taken at face value and recognized as that is what they want. Of course, there should be a waiting period, screening and vetting as well as signing of documents and consent before going through such a decision. This way it should curb anyone who is just deciding to suicide impulsively or who isn't truly sure that's what they want. Finally, to draw the age line, I would say yes, starting at 18 and then over time figuring out details and nuances of what is acceptable will be a way to go.

 

[Chinaski]

You don't have the right to decide if other adults deserve a compassionate death or not. You don't have the right to impose any "requirements " for a human to choose this. If any adult wants to die, they should be able to, easily and conveniently. As much as anyone who has terminal cancer. There's absolutely no reason this should not be the case.

I never said society prevents people from killing themselves, they don't. but they do prevent people from choosing humane deaths.

Let me just reclarify my stance on this. Yes, I agree with the OP of that video himself and I still firmly believe that when he is lamenting and criticizing suicide prevention efforts as being 'evil' he is referring to the prevention of rational suicides, and people who have been suffering for a long period time with little chance or any relief. He isn't talking about some teenager or young child who had a bad day or temporary problem and just impulsively decides to commit suicide.

In response to the counter arguments and deciding where to draw the line in terms of allowing or giving permission for people to commit suicide, I would say any legal adult (18+ based on US law) who is able to consent, sign contracts, go to war, smoke/use tobacco products, etc. should have their word be taken at face value and recognized as that is what they want. Of course, there should be a waiting period, screening and vetting as well as signing of documents and consent before going through such a decision. This way it should curb anyone who is just deciding to suicide impulsively or who isn't truly sure that's what they want. Finally, to draw the age line, I would say yes, starting at 18 and then over time figuring out details and nuances of what is acceptable will be a way to go.

So in summary, you're both advocating dignitas for free and with a significantly reduced, but poorly defined, vague and essentially frothy qualifying criteria, and Society ls Cruel for not providing you with this. Bullshit, frankly.

 

[Zzzzz]

So in summary, you're both advocating dignitas for free and with a significantly reduced, but poorly defined, vague and essentially frothy qualifying criteria, and Society ls Cruel for not providing you with this. Bullshit, frankly.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said it should be free. The criteria is not vague. If an adult wants to sign up for death , that's it. Its very simple clear criteria. If you want to believe that suicidal people deserve to blow their heads off, good for you, man. Good for you. I believe they deserve better than that. Keep peddling you're incredibly compassionate, altruistic, and noble cause my friend haha.

 

[Chinaski]

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said it should be free. The criteria is not vague. If an adult wants to sign up for death , that's it.

So there is no elibility criteria other than, like, having access to a significant sum of money in order to afford Dignitas? Absolutely bizarre that you'd aggressively state your demand for a "compassionate society" by suggesting a Dignitas in every GP surgery would be good, but the only essential eligibility criteria is hard cash.