Suicide prevention is evil

[TAW122]

This video is really good, and it should have more views. Pretty much summarized why suicide prevention (in most cases, not necessarily impulsive, irrational acts) is horrible and only makes the suicidal's lives worse (more medical debt, shit treatment, violation of dignity and rights, and more). This guy is really eloquent in his speech and explanation. I feel like I relate to this guy in so many ways and pretty much agree with just about everything he said.

Also, here are some other videos that he has regarding suicide.

Death with dignity


His additional vlog in regards to suicide and logical thinking

 

[Zzzzz]

I appreciate his courage to call society out on its bullshit. Death is not objectively wrong. There's no reason to think it's unnatural either . The only reason people think death is wrong is because it's not desired . If someone wants death, it's no longer wrong for them to end their life.

 

[Onomotopoeia]

I agree with a lot of points as i would guess many here will. Still, even I think attempting to protest a suicide prevention rally would have been the wrong approach so probably a good thing he did not. Suicide prevention in itself is a good thing, there are younger people and/or people who experience a crisis situation where suicide prevention efforts may be helpful for some individuals. The real issues start when you try forcing those prevention methods on adults. Mandatory psych holds for adults are a ridiculous and ineffective and often even damaging policies.

I got a little sidetracked but yea there should be an easy option for adults, for any reason or no reason at all. The world is not ready for this though hell many still struggle with assisted suicide for terminal patients. I think something as simple as a mandatory waiting list to prevent rash decisions should be enough.

 

[Chinaski]

only makes the suicidal's lives worse (more medical debt, shit treatment, violation of dignity and rights, and more).

I'll admit here I'm not going to bother watching some bloke talking shit on a vlog, but this thread title is absolutely bizarre for a start ("evil"? Really?), and the above point is ridiculous. Let people die because muh medical debt is Soylent Green territory, absolutely ridiculous. "Violation of dignity and rights"? Adolescent trash. Suicidal gesturing is literally a thing too. A great number of people *do* want to be saved, not every suicidal act is serious or genuine, suicide prevention and intervention is there for a good reason, but can also be very easily avoided if ctb is the actual and genuine intent.

 

[TAW122]

I'll admit here I'm not going to bother watching some bloke talking shit on a vlog, but this thread title is absolutely bizarre for a start ("evil"? Really?), and the above point is ridiculous. Let people die because muh medical debt is Soylent Green territory, absolutely ridiculous. "Violation of dignity and rights"? Adolescent trash. Suicidal gesturing is literally a thing too. A great number of people *do* want to be saved, not every suicidal act is serious or genuine, suicide prevention and intervention is there for a good reason, but can also be very easily avoided if ctb is the actual and genuine intent.

I'm afraid I agree to disagree @Chinaski. I will however, agree with you on one point, which is the impulsive suicide of teens or those who just use a snap judgment. The bloke that is talking about why suicide prevention is evil is not referring to impulsive suicides or people who just have a temporary crisis. He is referring to people who have suffered a long time, contemplated suicide (planned it and obtained the means), and then decide to do the deed.

 

[Chinaski]

I'm afraid I agree to disagree @Chinaski. I will however, agree with you on one point, which is the impulsive suicide of teens or those who just use a snap judgment. The bloke that is talking about why suicide prevention is evil is not referring to impulsive suicides or people who just have a temporary crisis. He is referring to people who have suffered a long time, contemplated suicide (planned it and obtained the means), and then decide to do the deed.

Either suicide prevention is evil, or it isn't. The thread title clearly states your belief that the latter is true; one can't be expected to very quickly assess every ctb attempt for qualifying criteria on its own merits and it's understandable and perfectly acceptable that prevention and intervention are the norm, bearing in mind the significance of what is at stake. The volume of shitty white noise about how people are mean for not, like, encouraging people to off themselves on this website is getting to maddening levels.

 

[Onomotopoeia]

Either suicide prevention is evil, or it isn't. The thread title clearly states your belief that the latter is true; one can't be expected to very quickly assess every ctb attempt for qualifying criteria on its own merits and it's understandable and perfectly acceptable that prevention and intervention are the norm, bearing in mind the significance of what is at stake. The volume of shitty white noise about how people are mean for not, like, encouraging people to off themselves on this website is getting to maddening levels.

Is that really a thing here? i'm new so guess I could have missed it, but this is the first thread i've seen saying such things. There is a far cry between being pro choice and actively deciding suicide prevention is evil. I would like to think most people can see that suicide prevention serves a purpose and ideally would still exist albeit in a different form should the world ever be ready to accept a more option based platitude for the suicidal.

 

[Chinaski]

Is that really a thing here?

Yeah, it's definitely a "thing" here.

 

[Redt2go]

Either suicide prevention is evil, or it isn't. The thread title clearly states your belief that the latter is true; one can't be expected to very quickly assess every ctb attempt for qualifying criteria on its own merits and it's understandable and perfectly acceptable that prevention and intervention are the norm, bearing in mind the significance of what is at stake. The volume of shitty white noise about how people are mean for not, like, encouraging people to off themselves on this website is getting to maddening levels.

retweet. guess I've been here too long lol

 

[Zzzzz]

I certainly hope that no one is criticized for not encouraging someone to kill themselves. Although if someone genuinely wants to die , we should not tell them they shouldn't.

 

[Zzzzz]

I think people have made very good points from both sides of the discussion. Suicide prevention does help to save some people who are not genuinely suicidal. But it also neglects the many people that are genuine. And asserts that they do not deserve a compassionate death because suicide is fundamentally wrong. The solution would be something that accommodates everyone, including those who are genuinely suicidal.

 

[Redt2go]

I think people have made very good points from both sides of the discussion. Suicide prevention does help to save some people who are not genuinely suicidal. But it also neglects the many people that are genuine. And asserts that they do not deserve a compassionate death because suicide is fundamentally wrong. The solution would be something that accommodates everyone, including those who are genuinely suicidal.

True and 'genuinely suicidal' is such a subjective thing.... Even on a pro choice site we can't decide on the proper age to give up on life...

 

[Zzzzz]

True and 'genuinely suicidal' is such a subjective thing.... Even on a pro choice site we can't decide on the proper age to give up on life...

I don't think 'genuinely suicidal' is as subjective as people make it out to be. In most areas of life, we usually take people at their word regarding how they feel. If someone says they positively want to die, they are probably telling the truth. The myth that suicide is universally irrational doesn't help. As for the age, that does seem a bit more complicated. But I think most people can agree that adults, since they didn't choose to be born, should have the choice to compassionately end it.

 

[mpti]

The volume of shitty white noise about how people are mean for not, like, encouraging people to off themselves on this website is getting to maddening levels.

I have to agree here.

I don't have anything against people who would want to prevent suicide. Most of those guys just want to help, even if it could be misguided sometimes. There are definitely awful things done in the name of "suicide prevention," but I can't bring myself to really be angry with most of the pro-life crowd.

 

[Choice]

Pretty much summarized why suicide prevention (in most cases, not necessarily impulsive, irrational acts) is horrible and only makes the suicidal's lives worse (more medical debt, shit treatment, violation of dignity and rights, and more). This guy is really eloquent in his speech and explanation.

So, he's arguing along the lines of "parents, if your child wants to kill themselves, trying to stop them is evil". Right. So let your child suicide. Do nothing about Uncle Bert turning up each week and raping your child night after night. I mean, if the child was considering suicide as an impulsive act, then that's not ok. But, if your child has a deep seated, long held wish to die - do not stop them! You didn't deserve to have a child, and it was cruel and selfish of you to have a child. You bought the child into the world to suffer. Children are entitled to kill themselves you evil undeserving inconsiderate pro-life arseholes.

 

[Redt2go]

I don't think 'genuinely suicidal' is as subjective as people make it out to be. In most areas of life, we usually take people at their word regarding how they feel. If someone says they positively want to die, they are probably telling the truth. The myth that suicide is universally irrational doesn't help. As for the age, that does seem a bit more complicated. But I think most people can agree that adults, since they didn't choose to be born, should have the choice to compassionately end it.

What i mean is the line is blurry. Its subjective because by that logic if a 10 year old truly wants to die we should let them...

 

[brighter]

Shit I don't even know who I wanna argue for, the parents not wanting to let their kids kill themselves or the kids not being allowed to end their suffering

 

[AveryConure]

Kids and teens still have a chance of getting proper help and their lives improving after intervention.

Even then I wouldn't tell a teen who OD'd on Tylenol just as a cry for help and willing to accept to get proper treatment if offered to just go ahead and keep trying to kill themselves.

 

[Chinaski]

Shit I don't even know who I wanna argue for

That's the thing, you don't have to argue for anyone, nor does anyone have to do ridiculous vlogs or splurge mammoth essays online about how Suicide ls Good But Not Liking Suicide ls Evil Actually, it's all painfully shrill white noise which has literally zero impact on whether someone with real and genuine intent to ctb follows up on their ideation.

 

[JustAboutDone]

I'm guilty of not watching the vlog as the man's earnest expression and facial hair in the still just put me off. Sorry

 

[JustAboutDone]

Suicide ls Good But Not Liking Suicide ls Evil Actually, it's all painfully shrill white noise which has literally zero impact on whether someone with real and genuine intent to ctb follows up on their ideation.

Correct.

In the immortal words of the Manic Street Preachers:
"Suicide is Painless, it brings on many changes, and I can take or leave it if I please"

 

[brighter]

That's the thing, you don't have to argue for anyone, nor does anyone have to do ridiculous vlogs or splurge mammoth essays online about how Suicide ls Good But Not Liking Suicide ls Evil Actually, it's all painfully shrill white noise which has literally zero impact on whether someone with real and genuine intent to ctb follows up on their ideation.

In the end it's the person in question that makes the decision and is affected the most, and by presenting a persuasion/argument you're almost implying that they are not competent to have followed that thought process through in their minds already. As for the vlogs and essays, an input of energy to make their opinions clear and like you said has zero impact on someone, if the intention to ctb is genuine, to change their mind.

 

[Chinaski]

I'm guilty of not watching the vlog as the man's earnest expression and facial hair in the still just put me off. Sorry

The guy has a fucking guitar and drumkit behind him ffs, definitely one to avoid imo.

 

[Chinaski]

Correct.

In the immortal words of the Manic Street Preachers:
"Suicide is Painless, it brings on many changes, and I can take or leave it if I please"

Those words were actually written by Robert Altman's fourteen year-old son. Seriously.

No need for your essays any more, lads - turns out some adolescent Californian brat pretty much summed it up circa 1968, when he helped provide a theme tune for his dad's army hospital sitcom.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Those words were actually written by Robert Altman's fourteen year-old son. Seriously.

No need for your essays any more, lads - turns out some adolescent Californian brat pretty much summed it up circa 1968, when he helped provide a theme tune for his dad's army hospital sitcom.

Really?! I mean I knew MSP were only covering it but that's amazing to write at 14.
I need to go and look this up on the hinternet.
(Not that I don't believe you)

 

[Hopeless_soul]

Suicide prevention does help to save some people who are not genuinely suicidal. But it also neglects the many people that are genuine.

Who is a genuinely suicidal person, and who is not? ... I think some people should be careful on the way down from that narcissistic cloud they seem to be flying upon.

 

[Mrs.O'Leary'sCow]

Those words were actually written by Robert Altman's fourteen year-old son. Seriously.

No need for your essays any more, lads - turns out some adolescent Californian brat pretty much summed it up circa 1968, when he helped provide a theme tune for his dad's army hospital sitcom.

You're partially correct. Altman directed the film (1970), the TV series (1972-83) was inspired by the film. Altman hated the TV series. The song was used in both.

M*A*S*H Director Hates TV Version

Director Robert Altman hates the TV series based on his 1970 movie
M*A*S*H - because it completely missed the point of the film.

Altman received an Oscar nomination for his irreverent black comedy set
in a Mobile Army Surgical Hospital during the Korean war but he says the
subsequent hit TV series, that used the same characters as those played
by Donald Sutherland, Elliott Gould and Robert Duvall in the movie, was
"despicable".

Altman fumes, "Personally I hate that television series; I think it was
despicable. It was just the opposite of what my M*A*S*H intended. It
became a propaganda piece."

Altman adds that in his movie he tried to convey the lack of patriotic
feeling in the war. He says, "It was as big a comment as I could make.
You never saw the war, y'know? Just the results of it. The only gunshot
you saw was in the football game at half time."

https://www.imdb.com/news/ni0062165/

 

[iiii5555]

People only care about control, for the human mind is primarily motivated by fear, and the only way to stop fear is by systemizing and overpowering your sorrounding world. That's why technology is so invasive. That's why every social interaction is a control operation. This is all to compesate for humans existential despair.

When someone invade your individual freedom - be it physically or memetically - and tell you what to do and how to do it, is because they are coping with their own biological fatalism and latent desparation.

All humans are ego-evangelists and they are always trying to subjugate you in some way, even when they're "helping". They are so gross.

 

[Redt2go]

People only care about control, for the human mind is primarily motivated by fear, and the only way to stop fear is by systemizing and overpowering your sorrounding world. That's why technology is so invasive. That's why every social interaction is a control operation. This is all to compesate for humans existential despair.

When someone invade your individual freedom - be it physically or memetically - and tell you what to do and how to do it, is because they are coping with their own biological fatalism and latent desparation.

All humans are ego-evangelists and they are always trying to subjugate you in some way, even when they're "helping". They are so gross.

 

[Chinaski]

You're partially correct. Altman directed the film (1970), the TV series (1972-83) was inspired by the film. Altman hated the TV series. The song was used in both.

M*A*S*H Director Hates TV Version

Director Robert Altman hates the TV series based on his 1970 movie
M*A*S*H - because it completely missed the point of the film.

Altman received an Oscar nomination for his irreverent black comedy set
in a Mobile Army Surgical Hospital during the Korean war but he says the
subsequent hit TV series, that used the same characters as those played
by Donald Sutherland, Elliott Gould and Robert Duvall in the movie, was
"despicable".

Altman fumes, "Personally I hate that television series; I think it was
despicable. It was just the opposite of what my M*A*S*H intended. It
became a propaganda piece."

Altman adds that in his movie he tried to convey the lack of patriotic
feeling in the war. He says, "It was as big a comment as I could make.
You never saw the war, y'know? Just the results of it. The only gunshot
you saw was in the football game at half time."

https://www.imdb.com/news/ni0062165/

Never seen either the film or a single episode of the series tbh, but iirc the film is the first film to feature the word "fuck".