stoicism as seen on tiktok

[DeersCanTalk]

I don't know if anyone remembers but a few years back (like 2-3) stoicism became a trend on social media, mostly because of Andrew Tate and all that. I really wonder how much damage this has done to some people. From my understanding what was being pushed onto people was that you should bottle up your feelings, do things you don't want to do (ice bath trend that followed was sooo cringe) and that you basically shouldn't express yourself, basically making yourself a person that just works or "grinds" and ignores what their instinct and soul is trying tell them.

We are lucky to be able to express ourselves, why hold it back?

Now i haven't read Meditations or any "stoic" literature myself but i feel like this tiktok variant is completely contradictory to how (most) romans and greeks really lived and that they really just took this and plastered it over they're bs "work work work" lifestyle to try to make it cool and "ancient". I like to see stoicism as doing whatever you want and accepting that you may not be accepted.

I'm completely convinced that this was another psyop to try to make people stray further away from who they really are and making them lose their personality, didn't Andrew Tate get exposed as a freemason anyway? lmao

What do you guys think about stoicism? Do you have an interpretation of stoicism? Do you practice it and has it helped you?

 

[Hvergelmir]

To me stoicism is about separating oneself from the environment - to focus on your own actions and your impact, rather than oppression and limitations.
I also think your interpretation aligns well with that: "I like to see stoicism as doing whatever you want and accepting that you may not be accepted."
I think it's a good counter balance to the trend of justifying feelings by finding sources of oppression.

I agree that Tate helped popularizing it, and that it's been dumbed down. Behind the veil of bullshit I think there's quite a bit of wisdom to be found, though.
Sadly characters like Tate are needed to get the attention of modern audiences. "Become a tough successful man in 5 easy steps", sells much beter that "a 3 hour, thorough comparative analysis of stoic philosophy".

Do you practice it and has it helped you?

Yes. I routinely use stoic or stoic-adjacent principles to push through discomfort in a pursuit of personal integrity and truth.
I don't think stoicism alone have all the answers though. I perceive it more as a tool to resist coercion and peer pressure, and maintain self confidence in the face of opposition.

I'm completely convinced that this was another psyop...

In stoic fashion I think one ought to take what one want from stoicism. The important thing is what You do with it. Tates intents, secret societies, and psyops, are irrelevant, if you stand up for yourself and do what you want.
(Also, from what I've seen of freemason philosophy, it aligns poorly with Tate's attitudes.)

 

[SoLowHollow48]

I wrote a think piece around stoicism in college. Stoicism came from men who have been struck by fate too many times and yet, they moved forward anyway. Marcus Aurelius was an emperor who lost many of his children in battle at the time and Zeno of Cyprus had just lost his trading boat in the ocean. These men could just say "fuck it" and give up but they didn't.

I've found that some people interpret stoicism as giving up because it means to not give a fuck about your surroundings anymore and just be nonchalant but that shit's just plain wrong. To be stoic is to accept that you can't fix everything and so you fix what you can. You can lose your children, but you still have your wife, brothers, and friends who still have your back. You focus on what you can do at that moment. It's a very grounding perspective.

 

[jw_sisyphus97]

Do you think its still worth reading the original stoics? I don't want my interpretation mediated by tiktok videos!

 

[annointed_towers]

I wrote a think piece around stoicism in college. Stoicism came from men who have been struck by fate too many times and yet, they moved forward anyway. Marcus Aurelius was an emperor who lost many of his children in battle at the time and Zeno of Cyprus had just lost his trading boat in the ocean. These men could just say "fuck it" and give up but they didn't.

I've found that some people interpret stoicism as giving up because it means to not give a fuck about your surroundings anymore and just be nonchalant but that shit's just plain wrong. To be stoic is to accept that you can't fix everything and so you fix what you can. You can lose your children, but you still have your wife, brothers, and friends who still have your back. You focus on what you can do at that moment. It's a very grounding perspective.

until you don't have even these, anymore. friends, that is. never had a spouse or children.

 

[SoLowHollow48]

Then you make some along the way. If not with other men, with animals, with plants even. You can't talk to them but having a living thing as company helps. At least, from my experience. Stray cats are like drinking buddies to me.

until you don't have even these, anymore. friends, that is. never had a spouse or children

Do give it a shot, yes. Don't let socmed pollute your authentic interpretation of stoicism.

Do you think its still worth reading the original stoics? I don't want my interpretation mediated by tiktok videos!

 

[annointed_towers]

Then you make some along the way. If not with other men, with animals, with plants even. You can't talk to them but having a living thing as company helps. At least, from my experience. Stray cats are like drinking buddies to me.

Do give it a shot, yes. Don't let socmed pollute your authentic interpretation of stoicism.

stoicism polluted my interpretation of stoicism.

I studied philosophy and intellectual history. existentialist literature. I didn't find any of the -isms fit my worldview, based on the experiences that created the worldview. not even Buddhism and it's remarkably similar.

I'm in my 30s and not dying any time soon of natural causes. just disabled and bedbound. maybe you can make a life talking to plants and cats exclusively, but that's not a life I'm interested in.

and there's no cats around here, anyway. and most days I just have a tree I see through a window.

 

[X-sanguinate86]

stoicism polluted my interpretation of stoicism.

I studied philosophy and intellectual history. existentialist literature. I didn't find any of the -isms fit my worldview, based on the experiences that created the worldview. not even Buddhism and it's remarkably similar.

I'm in my 30s and not dying any time soon of natural causes. just disabled and bedbound. maybe you can make a life talking to plants and cats exclusively, but that's not a life I'm interested in.

and there's no cats around here, anyway. and most days I just have a tree I see through a window.

I've heard people compare it to buddhism before. Does it include psychology and psychological exercises the way buddhism does? if so I might look into it but thus far it always seemed kind of basic and almost bordering on toxic positivity (which sometimes also happens in buddhism).

 

[annointed_towers]

I've heard people compare it to buddhism before. Does it include psychology and psychological exercises the way buddhism does? if so I might look into it but thus far it always seemed kind of basic and almost bordering on toxic positivity (which sometimes also happens in buddhism).

I don't think so
I think it's just detachment
Not caring
Stoicism as philosophy on social media is just detachment and provably overwhelm
By the brother and
By the world ms
Witch
Dirt. Type can't

 

[Ironweed]

What do you guys think about stoicism? Do you have an interpretation of stoicism? Do you practice it and has it helped you?

I've read both Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius and have concluded the philosophy is simply too remote and too removed from how human beings actually live to be workable for the vast majority of humanity. I'd suggest that it is no surprise that its two most well known proponents are an emperor and a former slave. To over-simplify it, the ethical and moral system as Stoicism has come down to us are basically Christianity without the promise of heaven, or much of a promise of anything.

What is interesting is that both Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius were vehemently anti-suicide, while most of the earlier stoics were noted for how often they ended their lives voluntarily, sometimes for some very odd reasons. (IIRC one starved himself to death after breaking a toe, even after being assured by his physician it would get better.) Unfortunately very little writing from these earlier Stoics has come down to us, so why the shift in attitude toward suicide occurred is sadly not known.

FWIW, I'm personally far more attracted to the main contemporary rival to Stoicism, Epicureanism. Just makes a great deal more sense to me. Or would be if I was rich enough to sit in a pleasant garden reading poetry and eating beans (the personal favorite food of Epicurus, founder of the school, curiously.) Untroubled by the world outside. Sadly, poverty prevents such an outcome.

mostly because of Andrew Tate and all that

Andrew Tate is no more a stoic than he is a feminist, personal opinion.

 

[vitbar]

The manosphere took bits of stoicism, especially the wisdom of the ancients selling point. Not all of it bad, but plenty of it twisted. Broicism I've seen people call it.

 

[Canto XIII]

Zeno, Chrysippus and Andrew Tate