Resource Stability of SN and N

[Relic]

True but that could've been that their sn may have been something else from the start but this establishes that sealed sn in a closet will be just fine for a long time.

Everything is possible. Back then the main concern was purity, storage was secondary. Also when someone tested their source, everyone who had bought from the same source could calm down, because almost all sellers were chemical suppliers with their own methods and standards. Now there is a bit more uncertainty, because the few remaining sellers are opportunistic and care less about quality, because the goods always sell.
But if it's the real deal then the same rules apply. Storage methods should meet expectations. Anyway, I'd like to see how fast the badly stored SN degrades. I'm sure someone has done that experiment before, but my mind is blank.

 

[Mimas]

I think a lot of people are now a bit panicked about storage.
In my opinion, this is unnecessary if you have received them in a well-sealed container or doypack.

I myself received my SN in sealed packaging and store it in a dry place.
It should keep for some time that way.

I don't know if it's really necessary to transfer it to containers now.
A mistake could happen.

 

[tbroken]

I think a lot of people are now a bit panicked about storage.
In my opinion, this is unnecessary if you have received them in a well-sealed container or doypack.

I myself received my SN in sealed packaging and store it in a dry place.
It should keep for some time that way.

I don't know if it's really necessary to transfer it to containers now.
A mistake could happen.

This is what i think also. But we should ask if anyone on the forum kept the SN unopened for multiple years...

 

[Relic]

In my opinion, this is unnecessary if you have received them in a well-sealed container or doypack.

I myself received my SN in sealed packaging and store it in a dry place.
It should keep for some time that way.

It's exactly about the personal needs. If you don't need some ten years, it might be fine. It's just that "well sealed" has a different meaning for different people. Water diffuses through plastic, and together with environmental factors, it can get unpredictable.

If you don't need that kind of security, you can absolutely store it whatever you received it in. I don't think anyone has ever bought nitrites with long-term storage in mind, until recently. Nitrites are produced and used by the industries on a daily basis, and no one is normally stockpiling them.
The expiration dates on commercial packages reflect the manufacturer's confidence in their packing methods. If you buy 99% anything with the expiration date of 01.01.25, then the manufacturer basically guarantees, that when you open the package before or on that date, it is in fact at 99%.

 

[SadjDuck]

I'd like to preface this to hopefully help people not make rash decisions due to the fear that their suicide method will go "bad" and they feel forced to take it before they truly want to. Freedom of choice means everything.

There is a lot of misconception on here about how long both of these chemicals last before they are no longer useable. both SN and N are highly stable compounds in general when stored in a cool, dry, dark environment and unopened the change in potency will diminish very slowly over time. Even when stored in "unstable" conditions, they both will last for a very long time and the loss of potency is negligible. Almost all chemicals are good past their expiration date, an expiration date is not what you may think, " Since a law was passed in 1979, drug manufacturers are required to stamp an expiration date on their products. This is the date at which the manufacturer can still guarantee the full potency and safety of the drug." [1] most drugs will last for decades past expiration, some even for centuries. In the US expired drugs are sold to the military at a discounted price since legally they are no longer acceptable to be sold to the general public.

Stability of Sodium Nitrite

First we will look at SN since it is far more commonly used. "Curing salt has no hard expiration date. If your curing salt is only salt and sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite, it's good forever. Salt itself never goes bad, though yellowing and other discoloration is common. Moisture is a potential problem as it attracts microbes. To prevent such threats, store curing salts in dry, moisture-lock, airtight containers and in a cool dry place, such as your pantry or a dry goods storage closet. Do not refrigerate or freeze curing salt." [2]

Some people are worried that clumping lowers it's efficacy, this is not the case. Here is a picture of pure sodium nitrite [3] and as you can see there is clumping. Small compounds will slowly stick together over time, it is natural and usually has nothing to do with it's efficacy.

View attachment 128403

Another article showing that is it highly stable
click here

This is a picture of an aquarium test strip that was used on SN that has been sitting in a bottle of tap water with a cap on for almost a year. previously it was believed you needed to use distilled water to insure sodium nitrite would breakdown into sodium nitrate at a much slower rate. considering this SN is still useable in very subpar conditions shows this is not the case as well as shows how stable it is as a compound.

View attachment 128405

This shows Sodium Nitrite is much more stable than previously thought, even in unpleasant environments.

Stability of Nembutal (pentobarbital)

Onto Nembutal, although it isn't talked about much anymore I still think it would be a good idea to show some information regarding it. In the past there was a lot of fear that it would go bad past the due date, as well as once it was opened you had to drink it in a certain amount of time. I would like to showcase why this is wrong.

I believe these two articles are the most notable and shows N in both it's stable and unstable environment and how it reacts.

Article 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26234474/

The biggest takeaway from this is, "We determined that the drug degraded at a maximum of 0.5% per year in our preparation (alkaline water/propylene glycol/ethanol) when stored in the dark at room temperature. "

Article 2: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23982045/

The biggest takeaway from this is, "the pentobarbital sodium in injection appears to be very stable, because the loss in potency was only about 6.2% after it was boiled in water for 1.5 hours."

This isn't really related but I thought I'd share this as well. There is an anecdotal report on Erowid about a person who took N recreationally for an extended period of time. The biggest thing to note is they found expired vet N had a worse taste. "some of the bottles were past a use-by date they seemed to be the most foul to drink and provided an inferior experience". An inferior experience in this context refers to the high and possibly that the potency of N was only slightly diminished.

Pentobarbital - Erowid Exp - 'Nice but Zombie Effects Long Term'

An Experience with Pentobarbital. 'Nice but Zombie Effects Long Term' by Whynot

www.erowid.org

As you can see N is also a highly stable compound and will last long past it's shelf life with very little loss in potency. When the liquid turns cloudy it means nothing in terms of efficacy loss and is just an arbitrary rule in determining it is no longer good for sterile use in a medical setting.


I hope this thread has helped to clear up the air that Sodium Nitrite and Nembutal do not go bad quickly. You do not have to make a rushed decision to ctb because of the fear that either compound will not work. both substances are highly lethal decades past expiration. Exercise caution and make sure ctb is the right choice for you.





[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-expiration-dates-do-they-mean-anything
[2] https://www.leaf.tv/articles/does-curing-salt-expire/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Also when someone tested their source, everyone who had bought from the same source could calm down, because almost all sellers were chemical suppliers with their own methods and standards.

I remember seeing this in my time on the forum browsing through threads from years past, the more trusted sources from chemical suppliers were available and I suppose more and more people got their hands on that to use to ctb but now, with all the regulations and businesses only being sold SN, the amount of quality out there isn't as great.

The expiration dates on commercial packages reflect the manufacturer's confidence in their packing methods. If you buy 99% anything with the expiration date of 01.01.25, then the manufacturer basically guarantees, that when you open the package before or on that date, it is in fact at 99%.

You know what's crazy about this, my Sn expires in December of next year so I've got two years with it. It's 01/12/25 on the package and it was produced back early-mid December of 2022. I haven't opened either bottle because one is for testing while the other for ctb day although since it's from a local chem supplier from within my country, I'm pretty certain it's pure.

 

[Relic]

the amount of quality out there isn't as great

Some sellers operate somewhere in the gray area, no certificates or international standards. The chemical suppliers need to have at least local certificates to be able to sell anything, so I think you're safe if you bought from one of these. I'm assuming they sold it in a bottle.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

The chemical suppliers need to have at least local certificates to be able to sell anything, so I think you're safe if you bought from one of these. I'm assuming they sold it in a bottle.

On both occasions, I got transparent communication and a COA each time and the bottle, I could show you a picture but it's that "classic" white with blue sealed cap, the info of impurities and the minimum purity as well on the side as well the expiration date. The international standard is NIST.

"NIST traceable calibration certified " thats what said on the COA plus from a visual appearance as compared to numerous others who've posted their sn here, I'm pretty damn sure my sn is pretty damn good.

 

[Relic]

On both occasions, I got transparent communication and a COA each time and the bottle, I could show you a picture but it's that "classic" white with blue sealed cap, the info of impurities and the minimum purity as well on the side as well the expiration date. The international standard is NIST.

"NIST traceable calibration certified " thats what said on the COA plus from a visual appearance as compared to numerous others who've posted their sn here, I'm pretty damn sure my sn is pretty damn good.

It most likely is good. Such small amounts are usually sold for analysis, and if there are undeclared impurities, consequences could be severe. The expiration date means that it should not be used for its intended purposes beyond that, but in no way is it useless.
The last chemical I bought was ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (yes, I had to copy and paste that name), a chelating agent also used as a corrosion inhibitor. It has no expiration date, but it is meant for analysis, including medical. These companies do not fuck around and do everything to protect themselves from problems, including lawsuits. If there is an expiration date, it just means that the chemical needs special attention.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Such small amounts are usually sold for analysis, and if there are undeclared impurities, consequences could be severe. The expiration date means that it should not be used for its intended purposes beyond that, but in no way is it useless.

Theoretically, even if I don't use it after Dec 2025, itd probably still be good in 2026 unopened although I don't plan to be around for any longer than late 24.

All the impurities were noted so I'm sure it'll be good.

It has no expiration date, but it is meant for analysis, including medical. These companies do not fuck around and do everything to protect themselves from problems, including lawsuits. If there is an expiration date, it just means that the chemical needs special attention.

True and they absolutely should to avoid any mistakes because they're selling to businesses who may need the paperwork to be order and for that, the chemical itself needs to be up to standard.

 

[Relic]

Theoretically, even if I don't use it after Dec 2025, itd probably still be good in 2026 unopened although I don't plan to be around for any longer than late 24.

Not much happens to it that fast.

they're selling to businesses who may need the paperwork to be order and for that, the chemical itself needs to be up to standard.

Some sell to pharmaceutical companies. Big Pharma makes most of their stuff in reaction vessels that need to be cleaned out before another drug is started. They seem to have forgotten to do it a few times, and there have been casualties. All those rules and regulations need to be good for something, at least.

 

[lilin]

Not much happens to it that fast.


Some sell to pharmaceutical companies. Big Pharma makes most of their stuff in reaction vessels that need to be cleaned out before another drug is started. They seem to have forgotten to do it a few times, and there have been casualties. All those rules and regulations need to be good for something, at least.

My glass bottle is a little bit too big for the amount of sn I have. There will be around 2/3 centimeters unfilled left. Do you think it'll help if I put medical cotton wool in this unfilled space, to reduce the air? Will it react with sn overtime/demage it?

 

[Relic]

My glass bottle is a little bit too big for the amount of sn I have. There will be around 2/3 centimeters unfilled left. Do you think it'll help if I put medical cotton wool in this unfilled space, to reduce the air? Will it react with sn overtime/demage it?

Leave it as is, nothing should be in the bottle with SN. If it's hermetically sealed otherwise, the degradation will be minimal.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Not much happens to it that fast.


Some sell to pharmaceutical companies. Big Pharma makes most of their stuff in reaction vessels that need to be cleaned out before another drug is started. They seem to have forgotten to do it a few times, and there have been casualties. All those rules and regulations need to be good for something, at least.

That's true. They gotta count for something in the end.

 

[Daxter_87]

Sorry to be so dense, but it is said on this thread that you should fill the bottle as much as possible so that there's as little air as possible. However, it is also recommended that you make sure that the SN doesn't come into contact with the seal. How do you fill the bottle completely and, at the same time, avoid the SN touching the seal?

Also, if I order 100g, would a 100ml bottle be enough?

Many thanks to @Carcass, @Goku Black, and all the people who have replied so far for their time, energy, and patience.

 

[Relic]

is said on this thread that you should fill the bottle as much as possible so that there's as little air as possible. However, it is also recommended that you make sure that the SN doesn't come into contact with the seal. How do you fill the bottle completely and, at the same time, avoid the SN touching the seal?

It can touch the seal, as it has to be plastic. I used double-sided tape and plastic film to make the first seal, it needs to be clean, no salt between the bottle/tape/seal. I had to make that seal, because in my case the cap was metal and a flat surface against the glass. There's a plastic disc/pad usually included with this type of cap, but I don't trust that thing. If the cap is plastic with a lip inside, that seal is not needed. If it is a flat surface cap, the seal should be made.

Also, if I order 100g, would a 100ml bottle be enough?

It's enough. When you fill it, crush all the clumps to make life easier.

 

[DOKTOR_G'HUL]

Intriguing.

 

[lilin]

It can touch the seal, as it has to be plastic. I used double-sided tape and plastic film to make the first seal, it needs to be clean, no salt between the bottle/tape/seal. I had to make that seal, because in my case the cap was metal and a flat surface against the glass. There's a plastic disc/pad usually included with this type of cap, but I don't trust that thing. If the cap is plastic with a lip inside, that seal is not needed. If it is a flat surface cap, the seal should be made.


It's enough. When you fill it, crush all the clumps to make life easier.

Sorry for bothering you again, I'm kind of paranoid about this... Could you tell me if my sealing wax ingredients seem safe to use? Theoretically it won't touch the sn, but I'm afraid that some microparticles will get into the bottle somehow and cause an explosion or something... Here are the ingredients:

• Colophony from resin - ~50%
• Calcium sulfate (gypsum) - ~30%
• Quartz - ~2%
• Carbon black - ~2%
• Titanium dioxide- ~1℅
• Iron oxide - ~1%

 

[Relic]

Sorry for bothering you again, I'm kind of paranoid about this... Could you tell me if my sealing wax ingredients seem safe to use? Theoretically it won't touch the sn, but I'm afraid that some microparticles will get into the bottle somehow and cause an explosion or something... Here are the ingredients:

• Colophony from resin - ~50%
• Calcium sulfate (gypsum) - ~30%
• Quartz - ~2%
• Carbon black - ~2%
• Titanium dioxide- ~1℅
• Iron oxide - ~1%

It's safe to use. While I have not tried it, I don't think anything noteworthy would happen even with a blowtorch on it.

 

[lilin]

It's safe to use. While I have not tried it, I don't think anything noteworthy would happen even with a blowtorch on it.

Thanks for taking your time to answer all the questions I ask. You're really helping me a lot

 

[Charcoal]

I have already posted it in another thread, but for information here

I wrote to the chemical company, how long is it keeping in the doypack who they send.

The Answer.
this reagent is stable when closed. The expiry date is 2 years from opening the MF packaging

 

[Relic]

I have already posted it in another thread, but for information here

I wrote to the chemical company, how long is it keeping in the doypack who they send.

The Answer.
this reagent is stable when closed. The expiry date is 2 years from opening the MF packaging

Interesting, considering they have no idea about customer habits or actions. Guaranteeing something like that, someone might take their word for it.
But this is not new, this exact sentence was the copy and paste answer years ago. Looks as if they all have hired the same lawyer. Or maybe they didn't want to pay one at all, and some secretary came up with it and everyone then copied each other.

Ask if they are willing to notarize it and cover any damages down the road.

 

[callincards]

I'd like to preface this to hopefully help people not make rash decisions due to the fear that their suicide method will go "bad" and they feel forced to take it before they truly want to. Freedom of choice means everything.

There is a lot of misconception on here about how long both of these chemicals last before they are no longer useable. both SN and N are highly stable compounds in general when stored in a cool, dry, dark environment and unopened the change in potency will diminish very slowly over time. Even when stored in "unstable" conditions, they both will last for a very long time and the loss of potency is negligible. Almost all chemicals are good past their expiration date, an expiration date is not what you may think, " Since a law was passed in 1979, drug manufacturers are required to stamp an expiration date on their products. This is the date at which the manufacturer can still guarantee the full potency and safety of the drug." [1] most drugs will last for decades past expiration, some even for centuries. In the US expired drugs are sold to the military at a discounted price since legally they are no longer acceptable to be sold to the general public.

Stability of Sodium Nitrite

First we will look at SN since it is far more commonly used. "Curing salt has no hard expiration date. If your curing salt is only salt and sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite, it's good forever. Salt itself never goes bad, though yellowing and other discoloration is common. Moisture is a potential problem as it attracts microbes. To prevent such threats, store curing salts in dry, moisture-lock, airtight containers and in a cool dry place, such as your pantry or a dry goods storage closet. Do not refrigerate or freeze curing salt." [2]

Some people are worried that clumping lowers it's efficacy, this is not the case. Here is a picture of pure sodium nitrite [3] and as you can see there is clumping. Small compounds will slowly stick together over time, it is natural and usually has nothing to do with it's efficacy.

View attachment 128403

Another article showing that is it highly stable
click here

This is a picture of an aquarium test strip that was used on SN that has been sitting in a bottle of tap water with a cap on for almost a year. previously it was believed you needed to use distilled water to insure sodium nitrite would breakdown into sodium nitrate at a much slower rate. considering this SN is still useable in very subpar conditions shows this is not the case as well as shows how stable it is as a compound.

View attachment 128405

This shows Sodium Nitrite is much more stable than previously thought, even in unpleasant environments.

Stability of Nembutal (pentobarbital)

Onto Nembutal, although it isn't talked about much anymore I still think it would be a good idea to show some information regarding it. In the past there was a lot of fear that it would go bad past the due date, as well as once it was opened you had to drink it in a certain amount of time. I would like to showcase why this is wrong.

I believe these two articles are the most notable and shows N in both it's stable and unstable environment and how it reacts.

Article 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26234474/

The biggest takeaway from this is, "We determined that the drug degraded at a maximum of 0.5% per year in our preparation (alkaline water/propylene glycol/ethanol) when stored in the dark at room temperature. "

Article 2: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23982045/

The biggest takeaway from this is, "the pentobarbital sodium in injection appears to be very stable, because the loss in potency was only about 6.2% after it was boiled in water for 1.5 hours."

This isn't really related but I thought I'd share this as well. There is an anecdotal report on Erowid about a person who took N recreationally for an extended period of time. The biggest thing to note is they found expired vet N had a worse taste. "some of the bottles were past a use-by date they seemed to be the most foul to drink and provided an inferior experience". An inferior experience in this context refers to the high and possibly that the potency of N was only slightly diminished.

Pentobarbital - Erowid Exp - 'Nice but Zombie Effects Long Term'

An Experience with Pentobarbital. 'Nice but Zombie Effects Long Term' by Whynot

www.erowid.org

As you can see N is also a highly stable compound and will last long past it's shelf life with very little loss in potency. When the liquid turns cloudy it means nothing in terms of efficacy loss and is just an arbitrary rule in determining it is no longer good for sterile use in a medical setting.


I hope this thread has helped to clear up the air that Sodium Nitrite and Nembutal do not go bad quickly. You do not have to make a rushed decision to ctb because of the fear that either compound will not work. both substances are highly lethal decades past expiration. Exercise caution and make sure ctb is the right choice for you.





[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-expiration-dates-do-they-mean-anything
[2] https://www.leaf.tv/articles/does-curing-salt-expire/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite

Is sodium nitrate just as effective for I can't find nitrite

 

[aiueo12345]

I have a question about my SN. I have it for around 13 months and I opened it only once to check the product. I have it saved in a black plastic bottle that came from the chemical company, Its really well sealed inside a cardboard with papers strips around the bottle.I've put in my closet in the dark. Does it sound ok to keep it legit ? I also pretty sure it's NaNO2 since the company is legit,the appearance is white and it's not illegal in my country

ps:sorry if my english is bad written

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Is sodium nitrate just as effective for I can't find nitrite

No, Nitrate is not a direct substitution for SN

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I have a question about my SN. I have it for around 13 months and I opened it only once to check the product. I have it saved in a black plastic bottle that came from the chemical company, Its really well sealed inside a cardboard with papers strips around the bottle.I've put in my closet in the dark. Does it sound ok to keep it legit ? I also pretty sure it's NaNO2 since the company is legit,the appearance is white and it's not illegal in my country

ps:sorry if my english is bad written

If you've opened it once then I wouldn't worry about it since it's quite durable.

 

[callincards]

No, Nitrate is not a direct substitution for SN

So where do I find it in the USA ?

 

[HerbieHoover]

Completely filled glass

What does completely filled glass mean?

 

[Relic]

What does completely filled glass mean?

Replete. Although not a hard requirement, there is no reason to leave more room for air. The salt does not expand, and it does not generate any gases that would need space.

 

[OmnipresentSoul]

could someone message me how to get it...asap