SS in the news?

[BooGirl]

That quote caught my eye as well:

"She did sometimes talk about ending her life but until those final few weeks I never thought she'd actually do it. I used to imagine her still alive at 90 surrounded by cats and cups of tea probably still saying she wanted to die".

That's straight up fucked.

It's so invalidating. First, patronizing to be like, there there, you won't actually kill yourself (and then OMG she actually killed herself!?? Big fucking surprise there, huh). Second, making her death wish seem petty and silly enough that its nbd she still wants to die at 90. Not that it mattered anyway, since she was all talk and no action... oh wait. Turns out she was serious.

Maybe if she had been taken seriously, maybe then she would still be alive.

Even the NHS didn't take her seriously enough to check up on her.

I was gonna mention that myself. I wish that people took suicide more seriously.

 

[HopeDiesLast]

I believe the tone of this forum may have changed a bit since Callie's (and Shawn Shatto's) publicized suicides. In my time here I've seen plenty of posts where members tried to talk someone "off the ledge" or let them know that it's perfectly okay to change their minds and that they will be supported either way. There's also a recovery section that's fairly busy. However, this has not always been the case.

I went back to look at Callie's goodbye thread, and it honestly makes this forum look worse than it (currently) is. There was not a single post that offered encouragement for anything other than CTB. In fact, after it appeared that Callie had died, one member (whose post was deleted, but preserved in a quote) expressed their disbelief that not one person tried to encourage her to live. Another member replied that (paraphrasing) "this kind of talk will get you banned and is not wanted here". That's pretty damning.

The site owners and admins (and many members) seem to be more mindful of public perceptions now than they were back in 2018.

 

[Flippy]

Good points and i feel terrible for the mother.but do you agree with her interpretationof the site being about vulnerable people helping vulnerable people when we are not in the position to ? Ive come across many level headed intelligent strong people on here and dont share her view.

I think it's valid to say that may be the case sometimes, however, I feel it's completely untrue that people on here will only try to help by offering guidance on suicide. Most seem to try to persuade people to postpone or reconsider. I suppose it doesn't matter how vulnerable a person is, if they can help someone else survive then I suppose the only thing I would say is why are vulnerable people able to help more effectively than professionals. There is something apparently missing from care providers strategies that seems to be present here on SS. Maybe it's the freedom to discuss things that if spoken in most other places might land you in hospital/sectioned. I'm not sure, but for a lot of people I've spoken to, this site helps them survive.

 

[ladolcemorte]

"When there was no mental health bed available for Callie that night, she spent the night with officers in a police car."......

Sounds like the real story here is a lack of funding for mental health care. The health authority admitted negligence here. That's the real tragedy. Not that the young woman turned to the internet but that when she turned to real world health care providers they failed her.

 

[Flippy]

"When there was no mental health bed available for Callie that night, she spent the night with officers in a police car."......

Sounds like the real story here is a lack of funding for mental health care. The health authority admitted negligence here. That's the real tragedy. Not that the young woman turned to the internet but that when she turned to real world health care providers they failed her.

I think you are absolutely right! It was found that the health service let the poor woman down, yet it leaves you with the impression that SS was the reason!

 

[aramir]

I think it's valid to say that may be the case sometimes, however, I feel it's completely untrue that people on here will only try to help by offering guidance on suicide. Most seem to try to persuade people to postpone or reconsider. I suppose it doesn't matter how vulnerable a person is, if they can help someone else survive then I suppose the only thing I would say is why are vulnerable people able to help more effectively than professionals. There is something apparently missing from care providers strategies that seems to be present here on SS. Maybe it's the freedom to discuss things that if spoken in most other places might land you in hospital/sectioned. I'm not sure, but for a lot of people I've spoken to, this site helps them survive.

I don't think anyone should be shamed here for not talking people out of their intentions , I can't imagine how frustrating it would have been if when I asked questions about suicide methods I get bombarded by spam like " it gets better ". the whole point of this website is to be realistic about people's situations and to respect them as people who deserve to either live or die in dignity. I get disgusted when I think that somehow we're supposed to try and talk someone out of suicide when most of the times we don't know enough about their situations to begin with; any attempt at "saving" them comes across as patronizing and extremely disingenuous.

sure if a poster expresses doubts in their writing then I agree that it might be appropriate to discuss alternatives. but if someone firmly asks for a safe and dignified suicide then the only respectful thing to do is provide them with correct information and bid them farewell ; whether or not the person will actually go through with CTB is a different story and only people who see no way out of their suffering will do anything.

 

[revenge88]

If someone could post via we send it

 

[Carrotcake]

If it wasn't for this site, I probably would have tried some stupid, painful and ineffective method. Which would have left me "alive", but seriously
hurt/damaged.

Knowledge IS important.

"Don't shoot the messenger" is what comes to mind here. This forum is not evil.

 

[Flippy]

I don't think anyone should be shamed here for not talking people out of their intentions , I can't imagine how frustrating it would have been if when I asked questions about suicide methods I get bombarded by spam like " it gets better ". the whole point of this website is to be realistic about people's situations and to respect them as people who deserve to either live or die in dignity. I get disgusted when I think that somehow we're supposed to try and talk someone out of suicide when most of the times we don't know enough about their situations to begin with; any attempt at "saving" them comes across as patronizing and extremely disingenuous.

sure if a poster expresses doubts in their writing then I agree that it might be appropriate to discuss alternatives. but if someone firmly asks for a safe and dignified suicide then the only respectful thing to do is provide them with correct information and bid them farewell ; whether or not the person will actually go through with CTB is a different story and only people who see no way out of their suffering will do anything.

I guess a lot of people instinctively want to prevent death wherever possible. I think it's probably true to a large extent that ctb is a means to escape from pain whether emotional or physical, not necessarily a will to die. If the pain someone experiences is so great that they don't feel they can continue living, then if mental health services intervene there needs to be a consistent and genuine attempt to prevent that pain from continuing. This is where things seem to break down quite rapidly for a lot of people.

There's a general attitude, that on the surface seems to make sense, that medicating a person should be temporary. For example prescribing sedatives. Giving someone a short course of benzos might halt the ctb planning for a while but without continued support people will likely relapse again. I personally think if people are that determined to end their lives and the idea is to prevent that, then I honestly don't see why there's such reluctance to prescribe meds that, yes might be addictive but could help someone live a much longer life in the long run. I'm not saying everyone would be happy to accept that as a solution of course. I just think if the idea is to prevent people from ctb then surely it's better to offer meds that truly help or at the very least, make damn sure that services follow through and offer genuine support to the people that need it.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I agree with the points that have been made, the site appears to have been misrepresented.

However, I joined this site in 2018 and I can't help but feel the tone was different. I remember reading posts and being chilled at the offhand way people discussed suicide seemingly with little attempt at support. I'll admit, I didn't care back then. If an outsider read things like that then I'm not surprised their attitude was to vilify this site.
Before my life collapsed, I would have probably have had the same attitude. Its only through walking this path that I have learned differently. And I'd rather be my ignorant previous self with a functioning life. I don't condone an ignorant attitude (in fact I find it endlessly frustrating and anger inducing, I meet it SO often in my own life), but I can understand it.
In an ideal world, critics would read more of what goes on here and take a balanced approach, but its not that easy. Where there is death, there is usually guilty feelings and anger. Its understandable, though not excusable that those feelings find an outlet.
We ALL need to be better, to make allowances for each other and try to understand. Otherwise a valuable debate turns into a worthless argument. But this is far from easy, and its even harder if you are suffering.
But to shut this site would be to sweep the problem under the carpet, to ignore it and hope it goes away. That is pure ignorance.
'If you save someone's life, then you become responsible for that person.'
But what I see is people bullied into survival without tackling what brought them to that point, then abandoned in an even worse situation than previously. It often seems like people don't want to help, they want you to go away and suffer in silence.

 

[Mm80]

I agree with the points that have been made, the site appears to have been misrepresented.

However, I joined this site in 2018 and I can't help but feel the tone was different. I remember reading posts and being chilled at the offhand way people discussed suicide seemingly with little attempt at support. I'll admit, I didn't care back then. If an outsider read things like that then I'm not surprised their attitude was to vilify this site.
Before my life collapsed, I would have probably have had the same attitude. Its only through walking this path that I have learned differently. And I'd rather be my ignorant previous self with a functioning life. I don't condone an ignorant attitude (in fact I find it endlessly frustrating and anger inducing, I meet it SO often in my own life), but I can understand it.
In an ideal world, critics would read more of what goes on here and take a balanced approach, but its not that easy. Where there is death, there is usually guilty feelings and anger. Its understandable, though not excusable that those feelings find an outlet.
We ALL need to be better, to make allowances for each other and try to understand. Otherwise a valuable debate turns into a worthless argument. But this is far from easy, and its even harder if you are suffering.

Its intersting that you say that the tone was different, as i have just read the goodbye thread. I joined in may 2019 and i hate to say it, looking at carries post from aug 2018, it seemed to be too matter of fact and lacking a touch of compassion, in relation to how she was supported. Her goodbye thread went on for days with failures in between, and reading between the lines imo she was desparate and amost reaching out. The posts were erratic and anxiety and a lot of overthinking seemed to be there. Carrie didnt seem to be at peace, more like panicking to get the job done.
I believe if the same goodbye thread was on here today, many would have picked up on what was going on and asked her to reconsider. Ive seen it happen recently. Im all for choice and support when someone wants to ctb, but my conscience will only be clear if i feel that they are at peace with their decision, have thought through their method and are sure.
Thanks

 

[purplemoon]

'Without suicide forums, Callie might still be alive' I think her mother wants to say 'No matter how painful her life is, it doesn't matter. The important thing is the pain I suffered because of her death. Since I do not want to experience the pain that I feel due to my daughter's death, I prefer her to suffer by living. We have no idea what my daughter feels like. There must be suffering enough to cause her to prefer death. This is not important. Although she lived with the idea of suicide every day, she should have stayed here and make us happy. You see how much I love her'

You're a genius, I could not have said it better myself.

I'm not saying she didn't love her daughter, but she even acknowledge that it was a mistake looking to strangers with a job title to help save her daughter in the most important moments of her life.

I don't understand why the mother didn't just go get her in person to save her?

I'm sorry for her loss, but I wish people would wake up and understand these moments are critical, and imperative to show the person how much you love them by being there for them in person...not just easy and convenient words over the telephone or an email. In the end, it should be about loving that person personally and directly, not by writing a check to some so called Dr., or so-called "help,"...

Family, significant others, friends, need to stop all this "seek professional help" nonsense and THEY need to be there for the person themselves from their HEART, they ARE the REAL HELP... NOT a bunch of strangers that must be paid damned MONEY in order to "help"...


What you wrote is true, though tragic...

"Since I do not want to experience the pain that I feel due to my daughter's death, I prefer her to suffer by living."

i want to respect the mother's grief, but i also the daughter's pain.

i wish peace for them both.

 

[Mm80]

I guess a lot of people instinctively want to prevent death wherever possible. I think it's probably true to a large extent that ctb is a means to escape from pain whether emotional or physical, not necessarily a will to die. If the pain someone experiences is so great that they don't feel they can continue living, then if mental health services intervene there needs to be a consistent and genuine attempt to prevent that pain from continuing. This is where things seem to break down quite rapidly for a lot of people.

There's a general attitude, that on the surface seems to make sense, that medicating a person should be temporary. For example prescribing sedatives. Giving someone a short course of benzos might halt the ctb planning for a while but without continued support people will likely relapse again. I personally think if people are that determined to end their lives and the idea is to prevent that, then I honestly don't see why there's such reluctance to prescribe meds that, yes might be addictive but could help sosmeone live a much longer life in the long run. I'm not saying everyone would be happy to accept that as a solution of course. I just think if the idea is to prevent people from ctb then surely it's better to offer meds that truly help or at the very least, make damn sure that services follow through and offer genuine support to the people that need it.

I agree with the op point about not being patronizing or spamming or ingenuine by trying to help people not ctb. But there is a balance to be found. Sometimes people do not want to ctb and really need attention, in this case they should get that attention as it could save a life that the person really wants to have. Plus sometimes people ask about extreme, inhumane methods that will give them a gruesome ending, and cause added trauma to others.of course we should discourage that imo. Plus if someone is asking how to jump in front of a train, maybe that is a cry for help as it doesnt take much thinking.
On the other hand, when someone has made their mind up, done their research and seem coherent and at peace, i think this shoukd be fully supported and respected of course.
Flippy about the medicine i totally agree. Im in the uk and presume you are. I have had arguments with docs and psychiatrists about benzos. They will only prescribe a tiny dose for say 3 weeks. They are terrified. I have had problems with alcohol and said if they would prescibe benzos (which work on increasing the same neurotransmitter gaba) i wouldnt need to drink as much and would be healthier. They argue that benzos have tolerance and dependence issues. I argue that alcohol does aswell but is more harmful to the body. Its ssris all the way in their narrow view.
Thanks

 

[purplemoon]

What's more contentious than the existence of this site is the fact that there is a necessity for it to exist at all.

This has got to be one of the most active Web forums I've ever seen. What does that say about society?

Exactly!

People should be able to discuss their real feelings like we do on here...instead of having to hide it because of being automatically locked up against your will like a prisoner, and then on top of that...

they're so-called help usually doesn't even help much!

They need to stop regurgitating the brainwashed mantra of "just get professional help from strangers", and actually be there for the person directly instead without having to pay anyone money.

PEOPLE need LOVE AROUND THEM...

NOT "counseling"...

 

[Mm80]

I believe the tone of this forum may have changed a bit since Callie's (and Shawn Shatto's) publicized suicides. In my time here I've seen plenty of posts where members tried to talk someone "off the ledge" or let them know that it's perfectly okay to change their minds and that they will be supported either way. There's also a recovery section that's fairly busy. However, this has not always been the case.

I went back to look at Callie's goodbye thread, and it honestly makes this forum look worse than it (currently) is. There was not a single post that offered encouragement for anything other than CTB. In fact, after it appeared that Callie had died, one member (whose post was deleted, but preserved in a quote) expressed their disbelief that not one person tried to encourage her to live. Another member replied that (paraphrasing) "this kind of talk will get you banned and is not wanted here". That's pretty damning.

The site owners and admins (and many members) seem to be more mindful of public perceptions now than they were back in 2018.

Couldnt agree more with this post. Except i dont give a shit about public perception and dont think anyone should on here. Reading the thread it was obvious that callie was desperate and had not thought the method through. The thread went on for days with failed attempts, and it seemed that all the other users just wanted to help with the technical details of getting it right, rather than checking her emotional state and if she was in the right headspace to make such a decision. Users were blunt with her in the thread, and i generally got the feeling that most just didnt care about her. In my opinion she was desperate and reaching out for more than just technical help. If carries goodbye threadhappened today i think the outcome may have been different, if not, the bbc would certainly have had a much more balanced view of SS. That thread made this community look pure pro suicide and extreme. (Plus telling a member who showed concern to shut up or get banned, is disgraceful and goes against the free speech values we are meant to have )

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I wonder if the people who want to close this site down will read it before trying to take action. I doubt it, and even if they did, there would be so much pressure on them to act, they'd have to go ahead anyway.

 

[HopeDiesLast]

The threat of being banned for posting something other than cheering her on in her suicide attempt is heart-breaking and outrageous. I don't know if that poster self-deleted their post out of fear, or if it was actually deleted by a mod at the time. Either way, it's fucked up...and not consistent with the forum that I've joined and come to appreciate. I, for one, would have been ashamed to be a member of this forum back in 2018 when this occurred. I'm glad this community has found a healthy balance.

To the mods: If my posts and attitude are too critical of the (former version of the) forum or not "pro-choice" enough, feel free to ban me. It's not something I'd want to be a part of.

 

[Flippy]

I agree with the op point about not being patronizing or spamming or ingenuine by trying to help people not ctb. But there is a balance to be found. Sometimes people do not want to ctb and really need attention, in this case they should get that attention as it could save a life that the person really wants to have. Plus sometimes people ask about extreme, inhumane methods that will give them a gruesome ending, and cause added trauma to others.of course we should discourage that imo. Plus if someone is asking how to jump in front of a train, maybe that is a cry for help as it doesnt take much thinking.
On the other hand, when someone has made their mind up, done their research and seem coherent and at peace, i think this shoukd be fully supported and respected of course.
Flippy about the medicine i totally agree. Im in the uk and presume you are. I have had arguments with docs and psychiatrists about benzos. They will only prescribe a tiny dose for say 3 weeks. They are terrified. I have had problems with alcohol and said if they would prescibe benzos (which work on increasing the same neurotransmitter gaba) i wouldnt need to drink as much and would be healthier. They argue that benzos have tolerance and dependence issues. I argue that alcohol does aswell but is more harmful to the body. Its ssris all the way in their narrow view.
Thanks

Yes I am indeed in the UK. I'm no expert on benzos etc but I do think it's time there was a serious rethink on how mental illness is treated with regard to medication. I honestly think SSRIs have done me way more harm than good. It's like that old saying, the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. From what I have read recently, there is growing evidence that SSRIs don't really help depression or anxiety. I think it's far better that people be prescribed meds that enable them to function. It's better to be "hooked" on a med that is careful monitored and controlled than it is for people to self medicate with alcohol as you have said, or in my case excessive amounts of nicotine. It seems like we are in topsy turvy land when that situation is deemed to be more acceptable. :-( at least that's how I see it.

 

[RainAndSadness]

This is a horrible documentary, narrated from a pro-life perspective. This documentary isn't about Callie. Like, what she wanted isn't a topic at all. Only her family gets a voice and it's all about their feelings, not really about the feeling of Callie . Like, with all respect, but what my family wants once I'm gone couldn't be more irrelevant to me. And I don't know why it should matter when it comes to decisions that affect my life and only mine. That means I am the one who has to go through the pain. I have to suffer every single day. My family doesn't have to go through that, so yeah - of course, it's a tragic incident and maybe it could have been prevented but the attitude of the family is irritating. Nobody in the documentary is considering how it must how felt, going though severe mental pain every single day and I'm sure that's what Callie went through. You can definitely blame the mental health care system in the UK though. I don't think they did enough. She was committed into a mental facility, but as I said in the past: locking someone up doesn't help them. This isn't gonna magically solve chronic and deeply routed mental health issues. We need to stop with those psych wards and pretend that they're working out for anyone. Like, Switzerland has an insane admission rate, compared to other European countries. That's nothing to be proud of.

Also, I really don't like how the documentary portrays this forum as evil. I mean, that's basically what they do. At some point in the documentary the mother of Callie said members in this forum aren't capable of helping each other and the only help people could expect in this forum is assistance for suicide. What? Speak for yourself. Like, yeah - back then, I think we didn't have the recovery forum. Maybe that would have been an option for Callie. But things changed and you can find plenty of thread right now, in this moment, of people helping each other and giving advice. Advice that goes beyond simple suicide assistance. This is such a simplistic portrayal of the forum. As usual, we're the evil ones. Give me a break. I've heard it before. And sure, let's completely ignore the fact that all of us are suffering from various different conditions and problems too. We're a member in this forum for a reason. This forum has 10'000 members, all of them have a reason to be here. This means several thousand people that have a tendency for suicidality so maybe you should step down from your high horse and start to ask some questions. How many more people need to join this forum until you, the media, politicians and people in general realize that something is going horribly, horribly wrong in this society? There are issues in this society that can't just be fixed by just preventing suicide. That's the sad reality. This isn't just a flaw in the mental health care system either. If you think you can fix suicide if you just lock up enough people into psych wards, well - I have a bridge to sell you. As a trans person, just one example, health care isn't my only problem. But this isn't about me, so let's put that aside. Outrageous documentary, pointing the finger to one single problem.

Also, the Samaritan, Jacqui Morrissey had the audacity to literally say, that suicide ideation is only "temporary". What? Are you serious? I am very sure, most members in this forum would describe their suicide ideation as anything but temporary. My suicide ideation came up when I was 14 years old. 10 years later, nothing changed. And as far as I remember, Callie also said that her suicide ideation started in early childhood. So what is that person even talking about? Absolute failure. Incompetence. I'm not surprised society is failing us, with people like her in charge of things. She said "there is always another option". What? Are we doing the pro-life bullshit bingo now? No, there isn't "always" another option. There are cases where all "other options" are exhausted and the perspective on life is very grim. There are people who suffer from mental and physical conditions who are suicidal, for good reasons. Such a stupid argument, it's always the same pro-life logic, which doesn't make any sense in the real world and it kinda tells me, this person has no clue. She probably never went through a serious suicidal phase in her life. So frustrating.

I'm not even gonna touch the fact that people have a right to check out. I understand her family is sad. But we can't always only consider the voice of the family. Callie also has a voice and she was old enough to make decisions, right? And who listened to Callie anyway, when she still was alive? What about her voice? And who are we, to decide what's right for others? I really hope that my person isn't completely pelt with rotten tomatoes once I'm gone because that's really disrespectful. But hey, I learned something. I'll say in my goodbye note, whenever my time comes, that I don't want to be slandered by the media by misinterpretation and rewriting of my situation, thoughts and desires. I think people in this forum should start to do the same.

 

[Mm80]

I wonder if the people who want to close this site down will read it before trying to take action. I doubt it, and even if they did, there would be so much pressure on them to act, they'd have to go ahead anyway.

I wonder if the people who want to close this site down will read it before trying to take action. I doubt it, and even if they did, there would be so much pressure on them to act, they'd have to go ahead anyway.

I can

The threat of being banned for posting something other than cheering her on in her suicide attempt is heart-breaking and outrageous. I don't know if that poster self-deleted their post out of fear, or if it was actually deleted by a mod at the time. Either way, it's fucked up...and not consistent with the forum that I've joined and come to appreciate. I, for one, would have been ashamed to be a member of this forum back in 2018 when this occurred. I'm glad this community has found a healthy balance.

To the mods: If my posts and attitude are too critical of the (former version of the) forum or not "pro-choice" enough, feel free to ban me. It's not something I'd want to be a part of.

Couldnt agree more with this post if i was a member and saw callies post at the time, i couldnt have just said nothing as to me it was obvious that although determined she wasnt ready to ctb. Dare i say that she felt compelled to ctb because she was very vulnerable and felt the pressure to do it as she told the pro suicide forum she would? I was fuming when i watched the documentary at the way SS was portrayed. But when i read the full thread, sadly i could see how they come to this conclusion. Its a shame they didnt look at some of the more recent goodbye threads though to get a more up to date accurate view.
Thanks

This is a horrible documentary, narrated from a pro-life perspective. This documentary isn't about Carrie. Like, what she wanted isn't a topic at all. Only her family gets a voice and it's all about their feelings, not really about the feeling of Carrie . Like, with all respect, but what my family wants once I'm gone couldn't be more irrelevant to me. And I don't know why it should matter when it comes to decisions that affect my life and only mine. I have to live. I have to go through the pain. I have to suffer. My family doesn't have to go through that, so yeah - of course, it's a tragic incident and maybe it could have been prevented but the attitude of the family is irritating. You can definitely blame the mental health care system in the UK, I think it's their fault and I don't think they did enough. She was committed into a mental facility, but as I said in the past: locking someone up doesn't help them. This isn't gonna magically solve chronic and deeply routed mental health issues. We need to stop with those psych wards and pretend that they're working out for anyone. Like, Switzerland has an insane admission rate, compared to other European countries. That's nothing to be proud of.

Also, I really don't like how the documentary portrays this forum as evil. I mean, that's basically what they do. At some point in the documentary the mother of the passed person said members in this forum aren't capable of helping each other and the only help people could expect in this forum is assistance for suicide. What? Speak for yourself. Like, yeah - back then, I think we didn't have the recovery forum. Maybe that would have been an option for Carrie. But things changed and you can find plenty of thread right now, in this moment, of people helping each other and giving advice. Advice that goes beyond simple suicide assistance. This is such a simplistic portrayal of the forum. As usual, we're the evil ones. Give me a break. I've heard it before. And sure, let's completely ignore the fact that all of us are suffering from various different conditions and problems too. We're a member in this forum for a reason. This forum has 10'000 members, all of them have a reason to be here. This means several thousand people that have a tendency for suicidality so maybe you should step down from your high horse and start to ask some questions. How many more people need to join this forum until you, the media, politicians and people in general realize that something is going horribly, horribly wrong in this society? There are issues in this society that can't just be fixed by just preventing suicide. That's the sad reality. This isn't just a flaw in the mental health care system either. If you think you can fix suicide if you just lock up enough people into psych wards, well - I have a bridge to sell you. As a trans person, just one example, health care isn't my only problem. But this isn't about me, so let's put that aside. Outrageous documentary, pointing the finger to one single problem.

Also, the Samaritan, Jacqui Morrissey had the audacity to literally say, that suicide ideation is only "temporary". What? Are you serious? I am very sure, most members in this forum would describe their suicide ideation as anything but temporary. My suicide ideation came up when I was 14 years old. 10 years later, nothing changed. And as far as I remember, Carrie also said that her suicide ideation started in early childhood. So what is that person even talking about? Absolute failure. Incompetence. I'm not surprised society is failing us, with people like her in charge of things. She said "there is always another option". What? Are we doing the pro-life bullshit bingo now? No, there isn't "always" another option. There are cases where all "other options" are exhausted and the perspective on life is very grim. There are people who suffer from mental and physical conditions who are suicidal, for good reasons. Such a stupid argument, it's always the same pro-life logic, which doesn't make any sense in the real world and it kinda tells me, this person has no clue. She probably never went through a serious suicidal phase in her life. So frustrating.

I'm not even gonna touch the fact that people have a right to check out. I understand her family is sad. But we can't always only consider the voice of the family. Carrie also has a voice and she was old enough to make decisions, right? Who are we, to decide what's right for others? I really hope that my person isn't completely pelt with rotten tomatoes once I'm gone because that's really disrespectful. But hey, I learned something. I'll say in my goodbye note, whenever my time comes, that I don't want to be slandered by the media by ymisinterpretation and rewriting of my situation, thoughts and desires. I think people in this forum should start to do the same.

Such a good post. Especially about the samaritans. They try but really dont have a clue.
I looked in their website and their core values are very similar to SS. The following value stood out to me...
People making their own decisions
We believe that people have the right to find their own solution and that telling people what to do takes responsibility away from them

Duh, is that not is happening here ? Difference is the people supporting each other have actually been through shit.theres always another option is a one size fits all bullshit phrase and doesnt apply, like you said, to those of us that have exhausted all options and suffered for decades.
I would urge you to read carries goodbye thread (apologies if you already have) however as i do think back then it was leaning a bit to being a pro suicide forum rather than pro choice,and she didnt get the warmth she might have now in her last days.
Thanks

I can

Couldnt agree more with this post if i was a member and saw callies post at the time, i couldnt have just said nothing as to me it was obvious that although determined she wasnt ready to ctb. Dare i say that she felt compelled to ctb because she was very vulnerable and felt the pressure to do it as she told the pro suicide forum she would? I was fuming when i watched the documentary at the way SS was portrayed. But when i read the full thread, sadly i could see how they come to this conclusion. Its a shame they didnt look at some of the more recent goodbye threads though to get a more up to date accurate view.
Thanks

Such a good post. Especially about the samaritans. They try but really dont have a clue.
I looked in their website and their core values are very similar to SS. The following value stood out to me...
People making their own decisions
We believe that people have the right to find their own solution and that telling people what to do takes responsibility away from them

Duh, is that not is happening here ? Difference is the people supporting each other have actually been through shit.theres always another option is a one size fits all bullshit phrase and doesnt apply, like you said, to those of us that have exhausted all options and suffered for decades.
I would urge you to read carries goodbye thread (apologies if you already have) however as i do think back then it was leaning a bit to being a pro suicide forum rather than pro choice,and she didnt get the warmth she might have now in her last days.
Thanks

Just to add, Catherine johnson. Ceo of the samaritans was earning 120 000 pounds per year back in 2015. There is a lot of highly paid workers for the organisation and only the guys at the bottom are volunteers

 

[Brick In The Wall]

It's on right now. They're just referring to this site as the suicide forum or suicide website, not by name.

Any links or name of the broadcast? I'm curious and would like to check it out.

 

[Pan]

So what? The important thing to remember is that she came here FOR A REASON. I would gather that her "reason" can be traced to problems she had early on.
I just hope this isn't a prelude to fascist censorship of this site.

 

[overandout]

Any links or name of the broadcast? I'm curious and would like to check it out.

Failed by the NHS Callies Story - Panorama (2020) Documentary" on DailyMotion.

 

[purplemoon]

Couldnt agree more with this post. Except i dont give a shit about public perception and dont think anyone should on here. Reading the thread it was obvious that callie was desperate and had not thought the method through. The thread went on for days with failed attempts, and it seemed that all the other users just wanted to help with the technical details of getting it right, rather than checking her emotional state and if she was in the right headspace to make such a decision. Users were blunt with her in the thread, and i generally got the feeling that most just didnt care about her. In my opinion she was desperate and reaching out for more than just technical help. If carries goodbye threadhappened today i think the outcome may have been different, if not, the bbc would certainly have had a much more balanced view of SS. That thread made this community look pure pro suicide and extreme. (Plus telling a member who showed concern to shut up or get banned, is disgraceful and goes against the free speech values we are meant to have )

I only joined SS recently in late September 2019 a few months ago, You of course know what it was since you were here before me.
From my humble and novice opinion of this incredibly amazing website and the majority of its people who have been kind and even brightened up my day often, this site is more beneficial than detrimental.

I would say 98% of people that I've interacted with have been nothing but interesting, often very intelligent, insightful, and even more supportive of others' feelings (or my feelings...albeit lengthy feeeelings, Lol) than many in real life in person are.

i've been trying to catch the bus often on since I was eight years old, and despite all of the more accurate philosophical formulas to catch the bus on here, I haven't even tried since I joined this site. I've certainly thought about it and planned it, but I'm waiting to see what else life may or may not have for me in the next few weeks. I'm also thinking of the small family I have left that are good souls and i'm trying to think about how they would feel, so I'm a bit torn about that.

Regardless of any past concerns you mentioned before on this site, The majority of post here seem to focus more on helping each other understand our feelings, validating each other's feelings, sharing important realizations and insights...and all of that is so beautiful.

Peace to All

This is a horrible documentary, narrated from a pro-life perspective. This documentary isn't about Callie. Like, what she wanted isn't a topic at all. Only her family gets a voice and it's all about their feelings, not really about the feeling of Callie . Like, with all respect, but what my family wants once I'm gone couldn't be more irrelevant to me. And I don't know why it should matter when it comes to decisions that affect my life and only mine. That means I am the one who has to go through the pain. I have to suffer every single day. My family doesn't have to go through that, so yeah - of course, it's a tragic incident and maybe it could have been prevented but the attitude of the family is irritating. Nobody in the documentary is considering how it must how felt, going though severe mental pain every single day and I'm sure that's what Callie went through. You can definitely blame the mental health care system in the UK though. I don't think they did enough. She was committed into a mental facility, but as I said in the past: locking someone up doesn't help them. This isn't gonna magically solve chronic and deeply routed mental health issues. We need to stop with those psych wards and pretend that they're working out for anyone. Like, Switzerland has an insane admission rate, compared to other European countries. That's nothing to be proud of.

Also, I really don't like how the documentary portrays this forum as evil. I mean, that's basically what they do. At some point in the documentary the mother of Callie said members in this forum aren't capable of helping each other and the only help people could expect in this forum is assistance for suicide. What? Speak for yourself. Like, yeah - back then, I think we didn't have the recovery forum. Maybe that would have been an option for Callie. But things changed and you can find plenty of thread right now, in this moment, of people helping each other and giving advice. Advice that goes beyond simple suicide assistance. This is such a simplistic portrayal of the forum. As usual, we're the evil ones. Give me a break. I've heard it before. And sure, let's completely ignore the fact that all of us are suffering from various different conditions and problems too. We're a member in this forum for a reason. This forum has 10'000 members, all of them have a reason to be here. This means several thousand people that have a tendency for suicidality so maybe you should step down from your high horse and start to ask some questions. How many more people need to join this forum until you, the media, politicians and people in general realize that something is going horribly, horribly wrong in this society? There are issues in this society that can't just be fixed by just preventing suicide. That's the sad reality. This isn't just a flaw in the mental health care system either. If you think you can fix suicide if you just lock up enough people into psych wards, well - I have a bridge to sell you. As a trans person, just one example, health care isn't my only problem. But this isn't about me, so let's put that aside. Outrageous documentary, pointing the finger to one single problem.

Also, the Samaritan, Jacqui Morrissey had the audacity to literally say, that suicide ideation is only "temporary". What? Are you serious? I am very sure, most members in this forum would describe their suicide ideation as anything but temporary. My suicide ideation came up when I was 14 years old. 10 years later, nothing changed. And as far as I remember, Callie also said that her suicide ideation started in early childhood. So what is that person even talking about? Absolute failure. Incompetence. I'm not surprised society is failing us, with people like her in charge of things. She said "there is always another option". What? Are we doing the pro-life bullshit bingo now? No, there isn't "always" another option. There are cases where all "other options" are exhausted and the perspective on life is very grim. There are people who suffer from mental and physical conditions who are suicidal, for good reasons. Such a stupid argument, it's always the same pro-life logic, which doesn't make any sense in the real world and it kinda tells me, this person has no clue. She probably never went through a serious suicidal phase in her life. So frustrating.

I'm not even gonna touch the fact that people have a right to check out. I understand her family is sad. But we can't always only consider the voice of the family. Callie also has a voice and she was old enough to make decisions, right? And who listened to Callie anyway, when she still was alive? What about her voice? And who are we, to decide what's right for others? I really hope that my person isn't completely pelt with rotten tomatoes once I'm gone because that's really disrespectful. But hey, I learned something. I'll say in my goodbye note, whenever my time comes, that I don't want to be slandered by the media by misinterpretation and rewriting of my situation, thoughts and desires. I think people in this forum should start to do the same.

@RainAndSadness You are spot on with every point you wrote...

 

[Mm80]

I only joined SS recently in late September 2019 a few months ago, You of course know what it was since you were here before me.
From my humble and novice opinion of this incredibly amazing website and the majority of its people who have been kind and even brightened up my day often, this site is more beneficial than detrimental.

I would say 98% of people that I've interacted with have been nothing but interesting, often very intelligent, insightful, and even more supportive of others' feelings (or my feelings...albeit lengthy feeeelings, Lol) than many in real life in person are.

i've been trying to catch the bus often on since I was eight years old, and despite all of the more accurate philosophical formulas to catch the bus on here, I haven't even tried since I joined this site. I've certainly thought about it and planned it, but I'm waiting to see what else life may or may not have for me in the next few weeks. I'm also thinking of the small family I have left that are good souls and i'm trying to think about how they would feel, so I'm a bit torn about that.

Regardless of any past concerns you mentioned before on this site, The majority of post here seem to focus more on helping each other understand our feelings, validating each other's feelings, sharing important realizations and insights...and all of that is so beautiful.

Peace to All


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@RainAndSadness You are spot on with every point you wrote...

i agree with everything you have said. Ive found nothing but support on this site and the members have been so kind and compassionate. I watched the documentary on callie, as im in the uk too and i wanted to see the crap that they had to say about SS. I was fuming after watching it. Firstly because they made out we are pro suicide instead of pro choice. Also they made ss look like a death cult and almost evil. So i found out callies username and thought id read her goodbye thread, To confirm its bullshit.
I think it was aug 2018, it was very different to the goodbye threads i have seen since joining. I didnt see the same compassion and care. Not one person reminded her that it was ok to change her mind.(even though the thread went on for a couple of days with failed attempts) it seemed that the support she got was mainly technical.ie how to get a better tent and how to seal it etc after her failed attempt. 1 person even made a comment (which was deleted) saying why didnt anyone ask her to reconsider? He was replied to with something along the lines of ...if you keep saying things like that you will be banned. Thats awful. From reading the thread, reading between the lines it was obvious that carrie was incredibly vulnerable and impressionable, and desparate to ctb. And nobody picked up on this. It lacked compassion and care
So sadly i can see why the bbc put SS in that light from that thread only. Im very happy that things are so much different now, but at the same time sad for carrie as i think she wasnt truly ready to go. All my subjective opinion of course. Im happy to share the thread/username for others to have a look at and make their own opinions.
Thanks x