SS in the news?

[Apathy79]

It was a documentary on BBC1 about a girl who killed herself within about a month after coming here. Essentially a half hour doco about this site without actually mentioning it by name.
Nothing new or interesting in it. But might create some unwanted attention over the next 24 hours.

 

[Defenestrator]

Oh dear, it's blowing up in the papers over here in the UK.

 

[HelensNepenthe]

Purchased a VPN since I don't have access to iPlayer to watch this. Here's a condensed summary of the broadcast:

The first few minutes is talking over the life of Callie Lewis. Her mom brings up that she was passionate about animals and animal rights. She would enjoy animals more than people. There are some webcam clips of Lewis talking about how she doesn't get people and how it's like they're talking to Spock. The commentator comments that they've been conducting this documentary for the past sixteen months "trying to find out what went wrong". SS is never brought up but it is addressed as an "online suicide forum".



Her mom comments that "Without those forums, I think my daughter would have really struggled to find the information that she was looking for about how to die."

"Callie had begun to think seriously about ending her own life. Callie spent hours searching the internet, and eventually she came across where she felt she might be able to get some help. We're not going to name the site, because it contains extremely harmful content, but it was a chat forum where she would post anonymously. And in one of the first posts that she left, she said, "I'm glad I found this site, as it feels near impossible to discuss suicide openly."

Somewhere in the midst of her unfortunate situation, she was going through a breakup (or had a breakup) with her ex boyfriend. Her relationship with her mother was declining and she was living with a person named Jan. Jan is this male figure who is a lot older than she is.


Lewis in her final dates was at Windermere (in the Lake District) asking people how to go through with her attempt. In quote "How to go through with it and how best to stop her friends and family from finding her, and from stopping her." This follows up with a few voice-over actors quoting telling her good luck and may you find peace. These quotes (without me double-checking) are allegedly from her final goodbye thread on the forum.



In the last few minutes of the show, the commentator is basically commenting how they've tried tracking down the owners of SS, but "they've gone to extraordinary lengths to keep their identities a secret. They hide behind these online aliases, and there is no physical address or way of contacting them, except by sending a message through the website itself." In addition, BBC tried to contact an on-film interview with one of the staff members but they wouldn't appear on camera. Instead they only would send text messages through WhatsApp.

In our conversation, they told us, "We offer a space to discuss the topic of suicide without censorship. Our community and website does not encourage suicide. That's strictly against the rules."

When I asked them if it was harmful to provide vulnerable people with detailed suicide methods they said, "Information is power. What you do with it is your responsibility."

[Another scene pans over with Lewis' mom talking about the administrator's reply to the forum]

"I think they're kidding themselves if they think that actually these are helpful forums, because I think, without those forums, I think my daughter would have really struggled to find the information that she was looking for about how to die."

The rest of the program ends with NHS comments over Lewis' death and how suicide is preventable. The family still firmly believes that the system failed her.

Callie was a whole person. She wasn't just her illness, she was somebody who... you know, lived a really fully life, and had some amazing experiences. And... Yeah, I just want her remembered like that.

 

[Mm80]

I feel for the mom, but there are parts of the article that anger me. Callie had tried to CTB on multiple occasions prior to visiting a forum. She had struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts her entire life. She was diagnosed with Asperger's, which is typically considered fairly high functioning, but Mom continued to interfere in Callie's medical treatment, to the extent that Callie instructed her medical team NOT to discuss her health with her mother. Callie's mom stated that Callie would "sometimes talk about ending her life but until those final few weeks I never thought she'd actually do it. I used to imagine her still alive at 90 surrounded by cats and cups of tea probably still saying she wanted to die". Mom also stated that Callie would never fit into a normal mold, but was still loved unconditionally.

To me, this reads as a young woman pretty set and determined on catching the bus, with a mom who constantly helicoptered and refused to accept her daughter's strengths or struggles. I feel like there were more than enough warning signs that the mom acknowledged but did not consider "serious". In the end she is projecting her own guilt onto a forum that did nothing more that allow Callie the opportunity to find a method specific to her needs. There is absolutely nothing in this article to support the idea that, had Callie NOT found an online forum to discuss her thoughts, that she would be alive today.

Very well put post. Im fuming.they zoomed in on ss being a site with lots of evil people encouraging and helping vulnerable people to ctb. Bullshit.its a group of people in the same boat finding support and compassion from people in the same posiiton, and all equal. They didnt once mention that its a pro choice community, not pro suicide, didnt mention there is a recovery forum.also didnt take the time to look into the fact that nobody encourages suicide and on the contrary, we advise against it if someone is unsure or could find happiness. This site has probably saved many lives.the samaritans are useless although they try. I havent seen carries posts but i can almost guarantee that she would have been supported and never encouraged to ctb. Carrie was set on ctb and this sites info helped her to have a peaceful end. Would mum have preferred it if she jumped in front of a train or from a great height? Because without these resources people get more desperate and thats what happens. It gets gruesome. Suicide was around for hundreds of years before this forum, and i dont believe that ss has raised the suicide statistics at all. Lets talk about suicide openly, unless you actually are going to do it. Hypocrites. I felt very sad for carries mother.maybe if the nhs or wider society knew (or gave a shit) about high functioning autism carrie would be here today

 

[Apathy79]

Just reading through her goodbye thread now. She was absolutely 100% committed. Stone cold. I'd bet my life she would have gone through with it and succeeded with or without this site.

 

[Defenestrator]

Just reading through her goodbye thread now. She was absolutely 100% committed. Stone cold. I'd bet my life she would have gone through with it and succeeded with or without this site.

What was her username?

 

[MaybeSoon]

If it wasn't for this forum I would probably be gone by now or at least living as a vegetable after trying a method without education.

People here offer encouragement for recovery and often warn against rash decisions because of how risky methods are.

That seed of doubt planted stalled my efforts and for that I'm glad as now I'm unsure, I've had some good moments since. Does that mean I will never CBT? no because I still have the same issues and you never know what the future may hold. But it will be my choice and at least now I know it will be relatively peaceful if it ever comes to that.

 

[Apathy79]

I'm not going to post it. Don't want to fan more flames. You can probably find it yourself or message me.

 

[Banquo501]

If it wasn't for this forum I would probably be gone by now or at least living as a vegetable after trying a method without education.

People here offer encouragement for recovery and often warn against rash decisions because of how risky methods are.

That seed of doubt planted stalled my efforts and for that I'm glad as now I'm unsure, I've had some good moments since. Does that mean I will never CBT? no because I still have the same issues and you never know what the future may hold. But it will be my choice and at least now I know it will be relatively peaceful if it ever comes to that.

That's a really valid point. Without reading websites like this I would have seriously considered downing a bunch of paracetamol and I'd now be dying a slow painful death. The fact that most peaceful methods require a lot of work and planning could make a lot of people think twice.

If someone is committed they will do this one way or another. It's relatively easy to kill a human being, it's just a matter of how peaceful and assured that death is.

 

[Quarky00]

If it wasn't for this forum I would probably be gone by now or at least living as a vegetable after trying a method without education.

Same .

Make your voice heard if you feel the same
​

.

 

[CyanideSoup]

I just watched it, it was upsetting.

 

[UpandDownPrincess]

There are so many of us here who have backed off our plans and encouraged others to do so as well.

This site has helped me so much. I'm a much healthier person because I have a place to talk about the impulses and to be reminded that I'm not alone.

 

[Flippy]

Same .

Make your voice heard if you feel the same
​

.

I'm pretty sure I would have ended up with horrible chemical burns and a trip to intensive care, where I would have spent a brief time before expiring from my injuries! This site has spared me and others around me from that horror. I now know of a much more safe and peaceful way to exit if I ultimately choose to. If it wasn't for SS I would probably be dead by now. For now I'm doing my best to take each day as it comes. I'm still here because of SS, if it were left to the Samaritans etc as a lot of us are advised to call I have no doubt by now I would not be here.

 

[CyanideSoup]

Just last night I was talked down by another member after some very overwhelming command hallucinations pushed me over the edge, and I know if it hadn't been for her and this site I wouldn't be here right now. We are all people who feel the same way that Callie felt. We aren't demons for respecting another person's right to do what they want with their own body.

 

[Polly]

"Without those forums, I think my daughter would have struggled to find the information that she was looking for about how to die,"​

What a stupid quote. If she didn't have "those forums", she very well could have just jumped in front of a train or jumped into an ocean/lake. Everyone knows how to CTB. It doesn't take a genius to come up with a simple plan.The methods online do nothing more than give more peaceful alternatives.

This.

 

[Mm80]

I'm pretty sure I would have ended up with horrible chemical burns and a trip to intensive care, where I would have spent a brief time before expiring from my injuries! This site has spared me and others around me from that horror. I now know of a much more safe and peaceful way to exit if I ultimately choose to. If it wasn't for SS I would probably be dead by now. For now I'm doing my best to take each day as it comes. I'm still here because of SS, if it were left to the Samaritans etc as a lot of us are advised to call I have no doubt by now I would not be here.
[/QUOTE
Your right about the samaritans.im sure they have nice intentions but the staff are usually middle class middle aged people who have had really nice lives and cannot relate to why you want to ctb. What the lady from the samaritans said is that websites like this shoukd be buried and proper methods of support should flag up on search engines first. Correct me if im wrong but this already happens? Samaritans etc always come up first on search engines. Plus i feel really sad for her mother. But i cannot agree that this is community full of vulnerable people helping other vulnerable people to ctb.if someone has appeared vulnerable or erratic or not in a clear frame of mind, i have seen others go out of their way to encourage them not to ctb until they are less vulnerable. The documentary was very biased.

This.

Exactly. The poor girl had tried hanging 4 times before coming on here. A failed attempt could have left her with serious long term problems and disabled her. I think that they are really playing down callies intelligence and commitment to ctb.Without the info she would have become more desperate and chose one of the methods you have mentioned, and caused more pain to unconnected people. What they could have done is made the documentary more about how aspergers syndrome left her isolated from a society that doesnt understand it and care enough,and probably contributed massively to her reasons to ctb. Instead they offered no education on the syndrome or how to help people with it. Its all ss fault instead.

 

[Flippy]

I'm going to watch the docu on iPlayer in a moment if I can get through it that is :-/ You are quite right though, if I search specifically for SS on Google I get two hits ahead of SS for the Samaritans and NHS I believe (from memory) if I search just plain old "suicide" there's plenty of hits before I would happen upon this site. And I would also agree that the Samaritans have good intentions but due to their training and possibly fear of litigation if they go off script, you are likely to just get your last statement parroted back to you disguised as a question. I understand why but if you are essentially at your wits end and you are talking to a sock puppet of yourself then I fail to see how that's going to help really. People generally only land on this site through search engines (at least I did) when I looked up the specific term "suicide methods". I think it's pretty clear you have already crossed that mental line if you are searching for that specifically. The Samaritans et al are not equipped to deal with people at that stage.

 

[Defenestrator]

I'm going to watch the docu on iPlayer in a moment if I can get through it that is :-/ You are quite right though, if I search specifically for SS on Google I get two hits ahead of SS for the Samaritans and NHS I believe (from memory) if I search just plain old "suicide" there's plenty of hits before I would happen upon this site. And I would also agree that the Samaritans have good intentions but due to their training and possibly fear of litigation if they go off script, you are likely to just get your last statement parroted back to you disguised as a question. I understand why but if you are essentially at your wits end and you are talking to a sock puppet of yourself then I fail to see how that's going to help really. People generally only land on this site through search engines (at least I did) when I looked up the specific term "suicide methods". I think it's pretty clear you have already crossed that mental line if you are searching for that specifically. The Samaritans et al are not equipped to deal with people at that stage.

I found this site looking specifically for hanging methods. Pretty sure we all ended up here searching for methods, you're absolutely right there.

 

[Bas]

The system failed this poor girl not a website. Unfortunately we are just not in a time and place that can truly help people like Callie and some people here and the services that are trying to fix that are constantly having their funds cut all the time. What do they think will happen? Until a change in society starts many more cases like this will continue to happen and at the moment I see no evidence of it starting any time soon. RIP Callie, I hope you are at peace now.

 

[Mm80]

The system failed this poor girl not a website. Unfortunately we are just not in a time and place that can truly help people like Callie and some people here and the services that are trying to fix that are constantly having their funds cut all the time. What do they think will happen? Until a change in society starts many more cases like this will continue to happen and at the moment I see no evidence of it starting any time soon. RIP Callie, I hope you are at peace now.

Spot on. Its a wider societal problem. And yes rip callie.

 

[Polly]

I'm going to watch the docu on iPlayer in a moment if I can get through it that is :-/ You are quite right though, if I search specifically for SS on Google I get two hits ahead of SS for the Samaritans and NHS I believe (from memory) if I search just plain old "suicide" there's plenty of hits before I would happen upon this site. And I would also agree that the Samaritans have good intentions but due to their training and possibly fear of litigation if they go off script, you are likely to just get your last statement parroted back to you disguised as a question. I understand why but if you are essentially at your wits end and you are talking to a sock puppet of yourself then I fail to see how that's going to help really. People generally only land on this site through search engines (at least I did) when I looked up the specific term "suicide methods". I think it's pretty clear you have already crossed that mental line if you are searching for that specifically. The Samaritans et al are not equipped to deal with people at that stage.

In fact, twice when I have finally been able to communicate my level of despair ti the Samaritans I have been blocked from their chat line. It just doesn't fit with their view of life.

 

[Quarky00]

Hi @BBC , did you get enough input here?

For some reason I don't see any of your "investigative journalists" doing any investigating here. I don't see your "documentary crew" actually documenting -- giving voice to those who cannot speak ; showing real stories unadulterated. I guess "Site Kills People" brings more ratings. And that "good luck" quote is more outrageous, despite not representing even an iota of the truth.

This is the culture of the sensational.

SS members' misrepresentation is just a drop in the ocean. This culture, propelled from the top, had changed the way humans act and think. It is harmful and destructive. The age of rage -- and "likes".

Enough already.

 

[Flippy]

In fact, twice when I have finally been able to communicate my level of despair ti the Samaritans I have been blocked from their chat line. It just doesn't fit with their view of life.

I remember your post on this! Absolutely shocking considering quite often in a crisis situation the services will recommend you call them until they have the resources to assist you. I mean, wtf can you do if the Samaritans have decided that you are a bit too suicidal for them!? Beggars belief! >:-(

 

[Mm80]

I'm going to watch the docu on iPlayer in a moment if I can get through it that is :-/ You are quite right though, if I search specifically for SS on Google I get two hits ahead of SS for the Samaritans and NHS I believe (from memory) if I search just plain old "suicide" there's plenty of hits before I would happen upon this site. And I would also agree that the Samaritans have good intentions but due to their training and possibly fear of litigation if they go off script, you are likely to just get your last statement parroted back to you disguised as a question. I understand why but if you are essentially at your wits end and you are talking to a sock puppet of yourself then I fail to see how that's going to help really. People generally only land on this site through search engines (at least I did) when I looked up the specific term "suicide methods". I think it's pretty clear you have already crossed that mental line if you are searching for that specifically. The Samaritans et al are not equipped to deal with people at that stage.

Very well put flippy and true. Im not into trying to criticise organisations that want o genuinly help. I just cheched on tge website and the following is one of the samaritans 5 core values....
People making their own decisions
We believe that people have the right to find their own solution and that telling people what to do takes responsibility away from them.
Wow that sounds familiar to ss values.

 

[Polly]

I remember your post on this! Absolutely shocking considering quite often in a crisis situation the services will recommend you call them until they have the resources to assist you. I mean, wtf can you do if the Samaritans have decided that you are a bit too suicidal for them!? Beggars belief! >:-(

Yes it was really bizarro land. Fortunately it ultimately made me laugh. But not in the moment.

 

[Mm80]

Hi @BBC , did you get enough input here?

For some reason I don't see any of your "investigative journalists" doing any investigating here. I don't see your "documentary crew" actually documenting -- giving voice to those who cannot speak ; showing real stories unadulterated. I guess "Site Kills People" brings more ratings. And that "good luck" quote is more outrageous, despite not representing even an iota of the truth.

This is the culture of the sensational.

SS members' misrepresentation is just a drop in the ocean. This culture, propelled from the top, had changed the way humans act and think. It is harmful and destructive. The age of rage -- and "likes".

Enough already.

So true.no educating on what aspergers syndrome is and how it would have left her isolated and contributed to her health.they could have raised awareness but chose the headline instead. I thought tge same that they were being very selective with which ss quotes they used. On every goodbye post ive seen the person leaving has been fully supported to change their mind i would imagine this would have happened in this case but it didnt fit the narrative of the programme

 

[Flippy]

Just got done watching it. Feel so sad for her mother :-( The bottom line here for me is that she was severely let down by a crumbling mental health service. Would she still be here if they had acted when she was in crisis, I think it's quite possible. This is the paradox of the situation, we believe it's people's right to choose, and it should be. The difficulty is knowing how much of their decision making is as a result of their mental illness. I think it's very difficult to untangle the rational from the irrational. I really do think mental health, for all our apparent social acceptance of those who suffer with mental illness, is still seen as easy to dismiss, malingering or attention seeking. The list goes on. This is only compounded by the brutal cuts to funding which results in dedicated staff being over worked until they break. The remaining staff are usually far too cynical and basically don't care about truly helping people in desperate need. People who are determined to end their lives will, and they will use whatever means at their disposal. I wish it wasn't so. SS doesn't make suicide more likely in my opinion, in fact for a lot of us I suspect, it keeps us going and makes us feel less alone. The people looking to prevent suicide should really pay more attention to figuring out why a load of not very well people (as the mother in the program pointed out) seem to be better at supporting eachother than the professionals are.

 

[MaybeSoon]

Looking at her posts it's clear she unfortunately didn't want help. Lots of cherry picking went into making that program.

 

[Mm80]

Just got done watching it. Feel so sad for her mother :-( The bottom line here for me is that she was severely let down by a crumbling mental health service. Would she still be here if they had acted when she was in crisis, I think it's quite possible. This is the paradox of the situation, we believe it's people's right to choose, and it should be. The difficulty is knowing how much of their decision making is as a result of their mental illness. I think it's very difficult to untangle the rational from the irrational. I really do think mental health, for all our apparent social acceptance of those who suffer with mental illness, is still seen as easy to dismiss, malingering or attention seeking. The list goes on. This is only compounded by the brutal cuts to funding which results in dedicated staff being over worked until they break. The remaining staff are usually far too cynical and basically don't care about truly helping people in desperate need. People who are determined to end their lives will, and they will use whatever means at their disposal. I wish it wasn't so. SS doesn't make suicide more likely in my opinion, in fact for a lot of us I suspect, it keeps us going and makes us feel less alone. The people looking to prevent suicide should really pay more attention to figuring out why a load of not very well people (as the mother in the program pointed out) seem to be better at supporting eachother than the professionals are.

Good points and i feel terrible for the mother.but do you agree with her interpretationof the site being about vulnerable people helping vulnerable people when we are not in the position to ? Ive come across many level headed intelligent strong people on here and dont share her view.

 

[Maravillosa]

Oh drat! I tried to watch the program on BBC iPlayer, but it will not work since I do not live in the UK Thank you, @HelensNepenthe for giving the summary with screenshots.