SN is not a dignified way to die

[Xta4Love]

Excuse me because my english is not that good.

SN is not a humane or dignified way to CTB. Sorry you guys. It is a fair warning
This is according to a book from a dutch psychiatrist named Uitweg by Boudewijn Chabot.
In this book there are 3 ways described how to humanely CTB.
There is also a chapter about SN called toxic cocktail. Even if you use anti vormit tablets, a pain killer and benzo's with the SN the death struggle can last up to 40 hours. With convulsions and epeleptic seizures. Sometimes SN is peacefull but you take a risk.

The advised methods are:
Stop eating and drinking when you are old
Medications using a combination of a lethal drug and sleep medicine
Using an inert gas such als helium or nitrogen gas

I recommend getting the book if you understand the dutch language. It very detailed
Boudewijn Chabot- Uitweg

 

[FuneralCry]

This is just a fear mongering post, I don't know what you are trying to achieve by trying to scare suicidal people but just don't bother. To me SN just sounds a bit unpleasant, certainly not as horrible and risky as many of the other methods, I think that those who are able to access it are fortunate.

 

[Justnotme]

Before an epileptic seizure, a person loses consciousness. Therefore, he does not feel convulsions and convulsions. Someone who knows correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Vizzy]

Excuse me because my english is not that good.

SN is not a humane or dignified way to CTB. Sorry you guys. It is a fair warning
This is according to a book from a dutch psychiatrist named Uitweg by Boudewijn Chabot.
In this book there are 3 ways described how to humanely CTB.
There is also a chapter about SN called toxic cocktail. Even if you use anti vormit tablets, a pain killer and benzo's with the SN the death struggle can last up to 40 hours. With convulsions and epeleptic seizures. Sometimes SN is peacefull but you take a risk.

The advised methods are:
Stop eating and drinking when you are old
Medications using a combination of a lethal drug and sleep medicine
Using an inert gas such als helium or nitrogen gas

I recommend getting the book if you understand the dutch language. It very detailed
Boudewijn Chabot- Uitweg

No one said sn is peaceful but it is not bad to do ctb compared to various methods

Wrong everything you read about sn failure because people don't follow the right steps to do the procedure right way, people who don't come to this forum don't have clue and they just take sn without any research and learning

I am not taking this guy (Boudewijn Chabot) serious as he is just a psychiatrist and researcher of peaceful methods who clearly went out of touch to have a clear thinking and just saying some weird things in his books to make a quick buck

I have read more than 30 cases in this forum and also through research papers available in internet, sn mostly gives you headache, nausea, stomach pain, vomiting which are uncomfortable but it is not bad, even if a person have failed in their sn attempt they recover quickly, damage is very less to body compared to any other methods, brain damage is literally impossible but with other methods if you fail brain damage is likely

Don't just read a book and come to conclusion, do your own research and more learning before posting something like this which can hurt a lot of people who are suicidal

 

[Deleted member 31858]

Please do not spread fear of a method that has been chosen and accepted by many, besides there are many threads and compilations where they describe SN as something peaceful, some uncomfortable and others few painful, in fact there is none where they talk about 40 hours of agony, maybe you are confusing nitrate with nitrite.
I really feel that even stopping eating and drinking is so much more painful and it can take many days for that to happen unless you mean doing it in a nice environment like a hospital with the staff administering medication to make things more peaceful.

 

[freelifexit]

Some SN cases are painful, some cases are discomforting, some cases are peaceful. Everybody reacts different.

Here you can find description of painful cases and here peaceful and discomforting cases and symptoms.

Also there are no negative info about consequences from people who failed SN on this forum, except two cases who got problems with kidneys.

But there is info from this Russian article about SN poisoning consequences (first two paragraphs on page 6).

"In severe cases of intoxication due to degenerative changes in erythrocytes and a decrease in their resistance, hemolysis and secondary hemolytic anemia occur (on the 3-5th day after poisoning). In this case, hemoglobinuria, kidney damage (nephropathy with varying degrees of acute renal failure) and liver damage (toxic hepatopathy) can be observed. Severe acute vascular insufficiency (nitrite shock), coma, pulmonary edema may develop. The clinical picture of poisoning is highly variable. In some cases, changes in the respiratory organs come to the fore, in others - in the cardiovascular and central nervous systems, in others - in the blood system."

Also there are no comments about brain damage on this forum from people who failed SN.

There are several articles which say that brain damage is possible.

From this article (Page 2, Discussion, 2nd paragraph): "Nitrite is also a potent vasodilator and can
cause coronary ischemia and stroke as a result of hypotension, tachycardia, and hypoxia."

Also article about survived case with brain damage: "Delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy (DPHL) is a demyelinating syndrome that occurs days to weeks after the brain has recovered from a coma. It is caused by the period of hypoxia and is characterized by mental disorders, extrapyramidal system symptoms, and motor changes. Common causes include cardiogenic shock, severe anemia, massive blood loss, and poisoning. There are only a few reports of DPHL due to nitrite poisoning in literature.

Most patients usually recover completely. However, DPHL can easily induce long-term neurological deficits. Within a few weeks, patients with mild symptoms gradually begin to recover some functions, such as speaking and walking. After 1–−2 years, most patients return to their baseline level, but following such poisoning, cognitive impairment including short-term memory deficits and fatigue may persist and hamper the patient's independence, reducing their quality of life."

 

[PurpleParadigm]

There is no way VSED is more peaceful than SN unless you are extremely elderly.

SN is uncomfortable and requires a very strict regimen before use but it is reliable, in addition it is still less painful and risky than many other methods.

I had a demyelinating syndrome as a child, very severe case in a country it occurs very rarely. It did leave lasting effects mainly on my legs as well as some nerve damage so slower reaction time etc. I don't know there was any brain damage, my short term memory is very bad and I do get fatiqued easily but I think that is because of years of untreated depression, anxiety and ADHD rather than the syndrome.

 

[blue_muse]

No gain without pain.

 

[Xta4Love]

Thank you all for your responses. It gave me new insights. I thought this book is good to share. It alarmed me. A lot. But perhaps you guys are right and in that case I apologize. In the Netherlands we also have an organisation who assists suicide. I will be asking them for their expertise too. SN was my prefered method :(

 

[Aisley]

Lol, what actions in life are 'dignified'? Stop eating and drinking when you're old? What kind of an option is that? Author sounds a little heartless, tbh.

 

[Valky]

In that sense, no method of suicide is dignified, even medically assisted one's.

 

[Vizzy]

Thank you all for your responses. It gave me new insights. I thought this book is good to share. It alarmed me. A lot. But perhaps you guys are right and in that case I apologize. In the Netherlands we also have an organisation who assists suicide. I will be asking them for their expertise too. SN was my prefered method :(

No organization is gonna give you sn as a preferred method, if you call them they gonna redirect you to the suicide prevention program

In that sense, no method of suicide is dignified, even medically assisted one's.

Medically assisted one's have opioids involved so it is just like going to sleep but they give it in high doses using iv which is the best and dignified way to go

 

[betternever2havbeen]

They determined it was humane enough to use on wild pigs so I'll take my chances. I know pigs are not humans and subject to different "humane" standards (actually they often get treated far more humanely than us when it comes to death) but in the UK and probably other countries, you're not even allowed to drown vermin as it's considered inhumane so I can't imagine they'd call SN humane if it wasn't even by our standards.

 

[Xta4Love]

No organization is gonna give you sn as a preferred method, if you call them they gonna redirect you to the suicide prevention program

Medically assisted one's have opioids involved so it is just like going to sleep but they give it in high doses using iv which is the best and dignified way to go

The organisation is called de Einder. They are not a suicide prevention organisation. They help with what is called self- euthanasia.

 

[Vizzy]

The organisation is called de Einder. They are not a suicide prevention organisation. They help with what is called self- euthanasia.

I said they will not answer you unless you are terminally ill, they gonna send your call to the suicide prevention team

 

[Xta4Love]

I said they will not answer you unless you are terminally ill, they gonna send your call to the suicide prevention team

That is not my experience with them at all

English – Stichting de Einder

www.deeinder.nl

 

[TeflonMummy]

Before an epileptic seizure, a person loses consciousness. Therefore, he does not feel convulsions and convulsions. Someone who knows correct me if I'm wrong

I'm a pedantic asshole but I'm somewhat qualified to clarify since I experience non-epileptic seizures: seizures aren't really categorized as "epileptic" or "non-epileptic" as those are the causes of the seizures themselves, but rather into subcategories based on the area of the brain the seizure effects and what symptoms you have.

The ""classic"" seizure you've seen in media is referred to as a tonic-clonic seizure and can have several painful postictal effects. I often have very severe headaches post seizures that can sometimes last for a day. Also from personal experience after having convulsions when I regain consciousness I will have very little understanding of whats going on and for someone in the death throws of an SN attempt could easily trigger a flight or fight response.

Granted if you're going to die by SN the after affects aren't really going to be the biggest deal; it just certainly makes the attempt "unpeaceful" which honestly I agree with OP about. The organic salts method seems like its a mixed bag compared to something like inert gas, and I'm not even sure if its any more challenging to set up after researching some of the regiments and drugs you have to acquire alongside SN for it to be as peaceful as possible.

 

[Vizzy]

I'm a pedantic asshole but I'm somewhat qualified to clarify since I experience non-epileptic seizures: seizures aren't really categorized as "epileptic" or "non-epileptic" as those are the causes of the seizures themselves, but rather into subcategories based on the area of the brain the seizure effects and what symptoms you have.

The ""classic"" seizure you've seen in media is referred to as a tonic-clonic seizure and can have several painful postictal effects. I often have very severe headaches post seizures that can sometimes last for a day. Also from personal experience after having convulsions when I regain consciousness I will have very little understanding of whats going on and for someone in the death throws of an SN attempt could easily trigger a flight or fight response.

Granted if you're going to die by SN the after affects aren't really going to be the biggest deal; it just certainly makes the attempt "unpeaceful" which honestly I agree with OP about. The organic salts method seems like its a mixed bag compared to something like inert gas, and I'm not even sure if its any more challenging to set up after researching some of the regiments and drugs you have to acquire alongside SN for it to be as peaceful as possible.

But the op didn't even justify by saying yes it is not peaceful but not bad, op just entirely named the topic "sn is not a dignified way to die" that's where the problem arise because that's a huge accusation made on a sn method which was successfully used by the past members to ctb and it is hurtful to hear for the recent members who are doing research on sn for ctb

Inert gas method involves more research than sn because many people don't even know about different gases, when you start to research about inert gas without any knowledge it gonna sound like a new language and execution is hard, sn is not bad when it comes to preparation to ctb

Ppeh gave sn 8/10 for peacefulness but inert gas method got only 7/10

 

[Xta4Love]

Thank you all. Can this topic be closed? I got my answers. Thank you

 

[TeflonMummy]

But the op didn't even justify by saying yes it is not peaceful but not bad, op just entirely named the topic "sn is not a dignified way to die" that's where the problem arise because that's a huge accusation made on a sn method which was successfully used by the past members to ctb and it is hurtful to hear for the recent members who are doing research on sn for ctb

Inert gas method involves more research than sn because many people don't even know about different gases, when you start to research about inert gas without any knowledge it gonna sound like a new language and execution is hard, sn is not bad when it comes to preparation to ctb

Ppeh gave sn 8/10 for peacefulness but inert gas method got only 7/10

Tbh in my opinion if you are going to do enough SN research to successfully preform the method, a post like this probably isn't going to stop you. I think its for a very particular type of person who is very specific in how they want to die, and if you are that kind of person, I'd probably agree SN has too many complications to be a method for you.

PPEH's rating doesn't really mean anything to me to be honest as peacefulness is subjective regardless, but actually they gave them the same rating, at least in the handbook version I've searched through that's linked to this form.




They also gave inert gas a higher overall rating, 80 vs 82 percent.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch methods here, just clarfying some info about the things I personally have experience with to have more informed forum users.

Edit: one last thing, I don't think the OP needs to really justify their post title either, as its their own opinion.

 

[Xta4Love]

But the op didn't even justify by saying yes it is not peaceful but not bad, op just entirely named the topic "sn is not a dignified way to die" that's where the problem arise because that's a huge accusation made on a sn method which was successfully used by the past members to ctb and it is hurtful to hear for the recent members who are doing research on sn for ctb

Inert gas method involves more research than sn because many people don't even know about different gases, when you start to research about inert gas without any knowledge it gonna sound like a new language and execution is hard, sn is not bad when it comes to preparation to ctb

Ppeh gave sn 8/10 for peacefulness but inert gas method got only 7/10

Yes and I apoligize. I quoted the book. That was too harsh.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Do you think they'd let someone starve to death in a hospital/ nursing home? By the time you're that old- chances are very little is dignified anymore- incontinence, dementia, frailty. I'd rather go before I got to that stage. Really- at that stage- you're depending on the mercy of those around you. Some care facilities may up your pain meds and let you pass peacefully. Others may- I assume stick a feeding tube down your nose.

Drugs would be great but- how do you get ahold of them? How do you know what you've got will be enough to kill you? I imagine there is still the risk of vomiting and failure unless you have been prescribed these drugs in assisted suicide.

Obviously- a clinical setting would be the ideal- but, how many people qualify for this? By the time you do- chances are, your life won't be all that dignified anymore. People who qualify for assisted dying are presumably at a stage where their lives are intolerable. Not sure which is worse- an 'undignified' death which may last a few hours, or, an 'undignified' life which may drag on for years/ decades.

Inert gas also sounds peaceful- although- as a DIY method- things can presumably still go wrong. Out of interest- does it endanger the people who discover the body? Does gas continue to be released after the person has gone? Wouldn't be very dignified if other people get injured in the process.

 

[Vizzy]

Tbh in my opinion if you are going to do enough SN research to successfully preform the method, a post like this probably isn't going to stop you. I think its for a very particular type of person who is very specific in how they want to die, and if you are that kind of person, I'd probably agree SN has too many complications to be a method for you.

PPEH's rating doesn't really mean anything to me to be honest as peacefulness is subjective regardless, but actually they gave them the same rating, at least in the handbook version I've searched through that's linked to this form.

View attachment 112561
View attachment 112562

They also gave inert gas a higher overall rating, 80 vs 82 percent.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch methods here, just clarfying some info about the things I personally have experience with to have more informed forum users.

Edit: one last thing, I don't think the OP needs to really justify their post title either, as its their own opinion.

But this kind of posts will create unwanted doubts to members who are already doing research which is not a good thing

I don't understand what you mean by this specific statement "I think its for a very particular type of person who is very specific in how they want to die, and if you are that kind of person, I'd probably agree SN has too many complications to be a method for you." Which particular type of person you talking about and if they want to find a specific way on how to die they should be researching instead of making post like this

How you can say ppeh ratings doesn't mean anything because it is written by a doctor who done his research by looking into various death and suicide happened before and this specific doctor got the record of 30 people sent to him who all did ctb using sn method

Overall ratings doesn't matter because it has a lot of other factors

I have read all the failed attempts of sn, also read informed forum members experience and read a lot of reports regarding the sn deaths, it was not bad, most of the failed attempts members said they experience headache, stomach pain, vomiting, skin Change color, nausea but most of them said they will try the sn method again to do ctb which strongly suggest sn ain't that bad

Edit: one last thing, I don't think the OP needs to really justify their post title either, as its their own opinion.

There is a huge flaw in this statement, yes op can say their opinion but they can't say opinion on fact which is already proven by many, if they want to say their opinion especially when it comes to ctb methods they better back up with research, sources and proofs because saying a ctb method is not dignified death is a huge claim!

 

[TeflonMummy]

But this kind of posts will create unwanted doubts to members who are already doing research which is not a good thing

I don't understand what you mean by this specific statement "I think its for a very particular type of person who is very specific in how they want to die, and if you are that kind of person, I'd probably agree SN has too many complications to be a method for you." Which particular type of person you talking about and if they want to find a specific way on how to die they should be researching instead of making post like this

How you can say ppeh ratings doesn't mean anything because it is written by a doctor who done his research by looking into various death and suicide happened before and this specific doctor got the record of 30 people sent to him who all did ctb using sn method

Overall ratings doesn't matter because it has a lot of other factors

I have read all the failed attempts of sn, also read informed forum members experience and read a lot of reports regarding the sn deaths, it was not bad, most of the failed attempts members said they experience headache, stomach pain, vomiting, skin Change color, nausea but most of them said they will try the sn method again to do ctb which strongly suggest sn ain't that bad

There is a huge flaw in this statement, yes op can say their opinion but they can't say opinion on fact which is already proven by many, if they want to say their opinion especially when it comes to ctb methods they better back up with research, sources and proofs because saying a ctb method is not dignified death is a huge claim!

And those doubts are the responsibility of the forum member to consider.

These types of posts that lead to resources that can clarify or provide new information about SN and the method are useful to people considering the method, provided the information isn't misinformation (which nobody to my knowledge has proven in this thread).

I've said personal subjective feelings such as "peacefulness" aren't really metrics you can consider on an objective or scientific basis. The overall rating was more-so about showing they're on an even playing terms in general effectiveness.

And a "dignified death" isn't really a huge claim either. It's a subjective claim, in which the OP believes based on their morals that it wouldn't be a dignified way for them to die.

A method is only as useful to someone as it is able to actualize their needs.

 

[Vizzy]

And those doubts are the responsibility of the forum member to consider.

These types of posts that lead to resources that can clarify or provide new information about SN and the method are useful to people considering the method, provided the information isn't misinformation (which nobody to my knowledge has proven in this thread).

I've said personal subjective feelings such as "peacefulness" aren't really metrics you can consider on an objective or scientific basis. The overall rating was more-so about showing they're on an even playing terms in general effectiveness.

And a "dignified death" isn't really a huge claim either. It's a subjective claim, in which the OP believes based on their morals that it wouldn't be a dignified way for them to die.

A method is only as useful to someone as it is able to actualize their needs.

All sounds like no empathy to the person who is doing research to get their way out

PS. I ask everyone don't make opinions on the proven ctb methods without research and proofs!

 

[TeflonMummy]

All sounds like no empathy to the person who is doing research to get their way out

I have plenty of empathy for the people on this forum. I don't understand how its not their responsibility to determine what method to use, when we are in agreement that suicide is the ultimate form of self determination.

 

[Vizzy]

I have plenty of empathy for the people on this forum. I don't understand how its not their responsibility to determine what method to use, when we are in agreement that suicide is the ultimate form of self determination.

I don't think so and that's my opinion

 

[Justnotme]

I'm a pedantic asshole but I'm somewhat qualified to clarify since I experience non-epileptic seizures: seizures aren't really categorized as "epileptic" or "non-epileptic" as those are the causes of the seizures themselves, but rather into subcategories based on the area of the brain the seizure effects and what symptoms you have.

The ""classic"" seizure you've seen in media is referred to as a tonic-clonic seizure and can have several painful postictal effects. I often have very severe headaches post seizures that can sometimes last for a day. Also from personal experience after having convulsions when I regain consciousness I will have very little understanding of whats going on and for someone in the death throws of an SN attempt could easily trigger a flight or fight response.

Granted if you're going to die by SN the after affects aren't really going to be the biggest deal; it just certainly makes the attempt "unpeaceful" which honestly I agree with OP about. The organic salts method seems like its a mixed bag compared to something like inert gas, and I'm not even sure if its any more challenging to set up after researching some of the regiments and drugs you have to acquire alongside SN for it to be as peaceful as possible.

Hello. I'm sorry you're having seizures, it's terrible.... But tell me, please, did I understand correctly that the single pain that exists before seizures / after seizures / during seizures is a severe headache?

 

[Valky]

Medically assisted one's have opioids involved so it is just like going to sleep but they give it in high doses using iv which is the best and dignified way to go

I mean that in that sense committing suicide is not dignified at all which therefore involves all methods.

 

[Goodgirlryeo101]

Tbh upon my own research SN has a high successful rate, if I could get it easily where I live I would have gotten it myself…. I tried to look online and all they wanted was only people from legit companies…