Resource SN FAQ - Antiemetics, Benzo, Antacid, Beta-blockers, Painkillers [DRAFT]

[Quarky00]

Wiki says not to use acid-regulators

Ignore that. Stan researched it – plain antacid or acid-regulators work well. The wiki reference was deemed Incomprehensible – here, here, here Wrong – here, here, here

Revision (links added) ^

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there were more people who used almonds instead of supplements.

Moonside used almonds .. with SN DOCUMENTATION. Others bought or use it as well. If really interesting you could open a thread and collect evidence :)

 

[Quarky00]

Others complained the FAQs in general are confusing. Any ideas how to make it more readable?

~

Final Revision for Benzo/Beta

Benzo / Sedatives
What they do:	Reduce Anxiety Any physical reaction / sensations Induce sleep
Do I need it?	No, many didn't use these at all Considered useful for anxiety + peaceful journey
Are they available?	Kinda. Prescription only – but common and easy. GPs prescribe benzo under these circumstances: Immediate relief and occasional/temp/short-termuse of: Severe insomnia Severe panic attacks Anxiety – add-on therapy Do not ask for Xanax Occasional – be responsible cautious patient, say the truth: "It's once week" "I don't want full box heard benzos not good" "Can I try 5 for emergency only" etc Notes, notes
Warnings:	Yes, though not harmful: Benzos effects vary greatly: Potency, tolerance, onset (how quick), duration (how long) change. Some benzo affects within 10m, others take 1h, and this changes individually Taken too soon – may fall asleep before SN Test small dosage beforehand Avoid extended-release – act too slow
Which benzo? Is benzo X good? How much to take? What if I have tolerance?	Can't answer that. There are dozens. Anything that affects you more than 4h. See above "Benzos effects vary greatly" Check this personally Benzo "half-life" does not indicate long/short effects. Tolerance – take more than usual
Other Sedatives
Can I use Z-drugs?	Yes, similar to benzo: Less physical pain, discomfort, etc Induce strong sleep (peaceful) More drowsiness, may fall asleep – test and time it Anxiety - mild to moderate reduction (benzo more powerful) Notes, notes
Can I use other 'sleeping pills'?	No. Need strong GABA sedatives Antihistamines, Herbals, OTC – won't work: Drowsy but not asleep No reduction of sensations / anxiety
Can I use other sedatives?	Perhaps real anesthetics, we don't know – be cautious. Little to no information about using anesthetics with SN Propofol – dangerous – may cause respiratory arrest Ketamine – considered safe – member used
Can I use opioids?	YES. But: Check contraindications Anything of the opioid family significantly reduces: metabolism gastric emptying intestinal absorption Will take twice the time. See here and here.

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Beta Blockers
What they do:	Reduce fast heartbeat after SN May reduce headache These meds reduce blood pressure.
Do I need it?	No. Most people don't use them Used only to reduce heartbeat (more comfortable) – You need that? SN reported headache, pain, vomiting – heartbeat was concern but minor Some already use these, or easy to get due to conditions Benzo/painkillers could also help
Are they available?	Prescription only. Consult physician. May be acquired at online pharmacies.
Which should I use?	Propanolol
Can I use others?	We don't know. Some suggested Metoprolol, Nebivolol (could work well) Had not been test
What else can I do?	Benzo/painkillers could help with fast heartbeat (not solution but helps) SN fast heartbeat can be scary for some Similar to anxiety attack (sitting quietly while heat beats), Benzos are CNS depressants & muscle relaxants, should ease that (more)

 

[jgm63]

@Quarky00 : Your posts add *enormous* value, so please don't stop, even if the "polish" level is imperfect. Much better to get the info recorded.

Maybe we should use the wiki more, to allow ongoing editing (unless we can somehow allow that on this site).
Although I do believe in having 1 owner of a document, since "too many cooks".
Perhaps there's some method of transferring ownership when the original owner is inactive for a certain time period.
Maybe someone could look into how all that works and publish a short and sweet "how to use wiki" guide, but don't feel obliged to do that since I'm sure you're already very busy....

 

[Quarky00]

Maybe we should use the wiki more, to allow ongoing editing (unless we can somehow allow that on this site).
Although I do believe in having 1 owner of a document, since "too many cooks".
Perhaps there's some method of transferring ownership when the original owner is inactive for a certain time period.
Maybe someone could look into how all that works and publish a short and sweet "how to use wiki" guide, but don't feel obliged to do that since I'm sure you're already very busy....

Thanx Wish we could use Wiki -- proper hierarchy styling! Instead of table & bullets. Problem as mentioned that SWiki has little critical review or editorial input. "Don't Use Antacid with SN" (and other dangerous things).

~

STYLE​

A good idea arose, to convert "Data Sheet" format to an "Article" format. I like article format. But that was a problem to begin with (for many members). Thus, this was meant as a quick reference, to solve a common problem: "I've read somewhere XYZ but can't find it..."

That's why I condensed it and used bullet points. I thought a table of questions (left column) was better to quickly locate an issue, with current styling constraints. Classical FAQ could be "a nice read", but for 80 questions without hierarchy - I think it'll be too much for many members. Wonder which is better for purpose, 1 or 2.

1. Classic FAQ



2. Data Sheet

 

[jgm63]

Not too sure... Keep in mind that "you can't please all of the people <etc>".
So I wouldn't worry too much....
If 5 people say something is "bad", there might be 30 people who think it's good but just never said anything.....
You'd have to do a survey and try to ensure both fans and non-fans take part to be able to build any meaningful picture, but then that could get a bit OTT....
I think your data sheet style is pretty good...

 

[Quarky00]

Not too sure... Keep in mind that "you can't please all of the people <etc>".
So I wouldn't worry too much....
If 5 people say something is "bad", there might be 30 people who think it's good but just never said anything.....
You'd have to do a survey and try to ensure both fans and non-fans take part to be able to build any meaningful picture, but then that could get a bit OTT....
I think your data sheet style is pretty good...

I'm not worried or into pleasing people, taking feedback to make it more readable . Maybe other formats are better . That's why I showed pros/cons . And exactly my goal -- let members opine :) Which they find comfortable as quick reference Q&A.. 1 or 2 ..

 

[jgm63]

I'm not worried or into pleasing people, taking feedback to make it more readable . Maybe other formats are better . That's why I showed pros/cons . And exactly my goal -- let members opine :) Which they find comfortable as quick reference Q&A.. 1 or 2 ..

Fair play, LET THE GAMES BEGIN !!

So everyone, are you :
1) classic all day long
OR
2) datasheet for-the-win
?

 

[Quarky00]

Antacids & Regulators​
Do I need those?	No. But many use. Considered widely-available and cause little harm. These are the least critical component.
Warnings	No Check interactions with your meds
Can't get any – what to do? I'm not sure about my antacid?	Skip it; don't use antacids. Don't overthink – you don't really need it Stan explained why Widely available on Internet
(1) Antacids
Can I use other antacids? Can I use Sodium Bicarbonate?	We don't know. PPH previous practice was sodium bicarbonate. It was not bad. PPH moved to acid-regulator (more effective, less interactions in stomach) Some used Rennie and the like Gavison may not be good
(2) Acid-regulators
Already taking acid-regulators, what to do?	If PPI used regularly (your health treatment) – Continue PPI as normal Don't add antacids or acid-regulators Don't change dosage If PPI used occasionally – May try to replace it with acid-regulators , test first

Rewriting antipsychotics

"The 13 Others"​
What are they?	If you do not take them regularly – DO NOT USE – this section is not for you. They affect over weeks – so only if it is your regular medication. Droperidol, Benperidol, Trifuperidol, Spiperone, Haloperidol, Bromperidol, Lurasidone, Sestindole, Paliperidone, Risperidone, Olanzapine, Clozapine, Quetiapine Last 4 – strong antiemetic Others are fine as well Stan listed with nM (receptor affinity); higher numbers may indicate stronger effects.
Warnings:	YES. Abrupt dosage change – harmful Tampering is done over weeks EPS effects Harsh withdrawal (psychosis) Therefore Don't take a single dose Don't double dose Don't change prescribed dosage
How much should I take?	As prescribed, don't change Personally-tailored – dosage varies greatly between individuals (explained here & here) Example .
Do I need AEs?	NO. They cover all antiemetics requirements. If you use them regularly – you don't need any Meto or AEs.
How do I use with Stat?	They totally replace AEs – use Stat directions – without Meto. Read directions and ignore any AE/Meto reference.

 

[Quarky00]

Fix sedatives K link

Can I use other sedatives?

Perhaps real anesthetics, we don't know – be cautious. Little to no information about using anesthetics with SN Propofol – dangerous – may cause respiratory arrest Ketamine – safe – member used

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Fair play, LET THE GAMES BEGIN !!

So everyone, are you :
1) classic all day long
OR
2) datasheet for-the-win
?

Data sheet seems to make it more readable and organized :)

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I have a suggestion. How about making one big SN thread post?

 

[Quarky00]

I have a suggestion. How about making one big SN thread post?

One big post of .. ? a bit more specific .. (I'm dense today:)

 

[WhyIsLife56]

One big post of .. ? a bit more specific .. (I'm dense today:)

You mentioned it before
Compiling everything, all the FAQs and such into one big post that links everything.

 

[Quarky00]

You mentioned it before
Compiling everything, all the FAQs and such into one big post that links everything.

I wish, but thinking about compiling 3 FAQs (with recent additions and corrections etc) -
1. Storage, death, recovery (kinda the basics stuff)
2. AE, as it's a big deal ..
3. The rest :)

The reasoning is that, while I'd like one long reference, appears members find it hard to browse 100 questions over 14 subjects .. Also when I try to answer from the FAQ -- I myself find it hard to quickly locate things (lol). A table of contents with links would have solved that (go straigth to section) .

But I may be wrong on this.. I'm open..

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I wish, but thinking about compiling 3 FAQs (with recent additions and corrections etc) -
1. Storage, death, recovery (kinda the basics stuff)
2. AE, as it's a big deal ..
3. The rest :)

The reasoning is that, while I'd like one long reference, appears members find it hard to browse 100 questions over 14 subjects .. Also when I try to answer from the FAQ -- I myself find it hard to quickly locate things (lol). A table of contents with links would have solved that (go straigth to section) .

But I may be wrong on this.. I'm open..

So like making a thread with a table of contents with the thread linked to each section (Overview, guide, FAQ, Extra--phytic acid stuff)

There are so many answers on thing no wonder people keep asking the same question over and even when using the search function it's not people can easily find their answers hence, asking the questions over and over.

There's got to be some sort of way to make it all organized. Sigh..

 

[Quarky00]

I'm not sure that if it will be more organized people will stop asking.
If instead of answered we'd provide link and say 'read' , like Jean4 said , they'd get the message .

As for a thread of links to subject , that's a good idea . It can also be "in one big thread" , like you wanted . First post will be table of contents, second post will be death , then recovery etc .. and the first post will contain links to all the other posts -- in the same thread . So on the one hand you can see everything on one page . And on the other hand you can link specific sections .
:)

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I'm not sure that if it will be more organized people will stop asking.
If instead of answered we'd provide link and say 'read' , like Jean4 said , they'd get the message .

As for a thread of links to subject , that's a good idea . It can also be "in one big thread" , like you wanted . First post will be table of contents, second post will be death , then recovery etc .. and the first post will contain links to all the other posts -- in the same thread . So on the one hand you can see everything on one page . And on the other hand you can link specific sections .
:)

People won't stop asking even even if they're told to do research. They want direct answers which I understand since there's no pinned post of said method.
Not everyone will) would look at the Resources Compilation.

Is there someone that can do a thread post like that? I was just thinking of doing it in one post instead of separate posts in one thread.
Like
1. What SN does/what SN is
Provide an explanation here.

2. The SN guide
Provide the thread link here

3. The SN FAQs
Provide thread links here.

4. Extra
Provide thread link here.

This kind of format.

 

[Quarky00]

Yes . That should be part of the future pinned / sticky SN Resource . 4- success stories etc , as we've talked . If we feel ready we may ask admins .

3 should links to a different thread that contains FAQ posts . AEs , Benzo , Antacid -- different posts all in the same thread / page .

 

[Terminally ill]

Is Rennie good to take as an antiacid? How much of it should I take? Here is what I am talking about: https://www.rennie.co.uk/product-range/rennie-peppermint/

 

[jgm63]

Is Rennie good to take as an antiacid? How much of it should I take? Here is what I am talking about: https://www.rennie.co.uk/product-range/rennie-peppermint/

I believe it's a valid choice. People have used it before for their SN protocols...
Stan's guide generally says to take double whatever is stated on the packet....

 

[Sideswipe]

Excellent Resource here. Thank you for this! M̳U̳S̳T̳ H̳A̳V̳E̳ T̳A̳K̳E̳N̳ S̳O̳M̳E̳ S̳E̳R̳I̳O̳U̳S̳ T̳I̳M̳E̳ A̳N̳D̳ E̳F̳F̳O̳R̳T̳ T̳O̳ D̳O̳! T̳H̳A̳N̳K̳S̳!!

 

[Quarky00]

I believe it's a valid choice. People have used it before for their SN protocols...
Stan's guide generally says to take double whatever is stated on the packet....

I've seen several used Rennie, I know these not critical, should we add to FAQ's known antacids?:)

 

[jgm63]

I've seen several used Rennie, I know these not critical, should we add to FAQ's known antacids?:)

Yes, you could probably add them....

My notes :
H2 BLOCKER / ANTACID
You should be able to find these over-the-counter.
Note : They are not considered to be essential.
Some people believe an antacid may be faster acting and more effective, but opinions vary. H2 blockers reduce the amount of acid your stomach makes, whereas antacid neutralises the acid already in your stomach.
H2 blockers : Tagamet (Cimetidine) / Zantac (Ranitidine), or supermarket own brands of cimetidine / ranitidine.
Antacid : I'm not sure what brand or type to recommend. I've seen Mylanta mentioned, but I can't say whether that's a good choice. Some people have used things such as Rennie or milk of magnesia.
Many people seem to go with Tagamet or Zantac, so you could just go with one of those.

Please take anything from above that seems worthwhile.

The other question that sometimes pops up is sodium bicarbonate... Apparently it used to be in the peaceful pill handbook, but was removed, but not sure why. If you confirm it's a bad idea and why, then that's worth adding to the FAQ.... (or just add it and state that it's assumed to not be a good choice, exact reasons to be determined). I suppose you could fire an email to exit intl to find out why it was removed....
You do like to make work for yourself don't you Doctor Quarky00

 

[Quarky00]

Great info , will add soon

sodium bicarbonate... Apparently it used to be in the peaceful pill handbook, but was removed, but not sure why. If you confirm it's a bad idea

Answered in recent updates lol ;)

(1) Antacids
Can I use other antacids? Can I use Sodium Bicarbonate?	We don't know. PPH previous practice was sodium bicarbonate. It was not bad. PPH moved to acid-regulator (more effective, less interactions in stomach) Some used Rennie and the like Gavison may not be good

I honestly don't know, I prefer regulators like PPH, but can't say any antacid is good/bad. Stan said any simple thing will do the job. I hope they don't interact. We can't really know from success testimonials if that helped or not .. We need the same person to die twice, once with antacid and second time without

You do like to make work for yourself don't you Doctor Quarky00

~


Note to self -- add Fasting Rules (inc Alcohol)

a more relaxed fasting practice, considering posts. This was mentioned in Stan's guide & replies. The reasoning is quick gastric emptying for fluids and simple sugars, return to normal pH an hour after emptying, and partially empty intestines sufficient for cause (explained in first quote).

Fasting timeline

• Eat a light meal 5h before SN intake, and start fasting.
  • Some may consider 4h as enough, others will want 6h, etc.
  • Avoid alcohol.
    • Very few members may have indulged in a small serving (later ingested SN fatally), but it irritates stomach for few hours, changes acidity, slows metabolism.
• Next 3 hours: You can drink water or non-acidic juices – in moderation.
  • For example juices/shakes made with either carrot, aloe, cabbage, beet, watermelon, spinach, cucumber, pear, etc.
    • That is a glass or two top. Don't drink a lot.
  • Avoid acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks.
    • If you really must have these, and really can't control it, drink 3h before SN intake (at most 2h).
  • If you must eat something:
    • Snack a simple non-acidic fruit/veg.
    • For example: apples are acidic and have fibers (long travel in intestines), but 1 small apple 4h before SN should be ok (know your body).
    • Candy: Simple sugars, no fat, up to ~ 100 calories.
• Next 1 hour: Minimize water intake. But don't put yourself in discomfort. Drink some water if you feel like.
• Next 1 hour: Complete fast – no drinking.
• After SN intake: May have a small chocolate tablet, for taste; don't overdo – may cause nausea. Can use mint etc.

Original (extended) timeline is:

• Light meal 8h before intake, start fasting.
• Next 6 hours: Some water . If you must drink something – small amounts of non-acidic juices.
• Next 2 hours: Complete fast – no drinking

 

[issyishere]

i've been considering taking benzo analogues with mine as i can't get ahold of xanax. Would that still work?

 

[Quarky00]

i've been considering taking benzo analogues with mine as i can't get ahold of xanax. Would that still work?

Good question. This was briefly mentioned here (but I will explain further):

Z-Drugs vs. Benzo

Zolpidem – "Zolpidem is a nonbenzodiazepine Z drug which acts as a sedative and hypnotic."
Sedative – "Iinduces sedation by reducing irritability or excitement. CNS depressants. Produce beneficial relaxing effects by increasing GABA activity."
Z-drugs have fewer of the full desirable effects, compared with those of benzos –

• sedative
• hypnotic (sleep-inducing)
• anxiolytic (anti-anxiety)
• anticonvulsant
• relaxant (muscles)

Benzo basically have these 5 effects which makes them ideal.

Check your analog if it useful for you. Is it just sedative? hypnotic? does it reduce anxiety? Are you okay with falling asleep? Etc.

Out of these effects -- anxiolytic, hypnotic, amnesic, muscle relaxant, anticonvulsant -- you can make your desicion, if your med answers your needs :)


* If my answer is too complex, let me know I'll try make it better .. I'm a bit over the place now :)

 

[jgm63]

Great info , will add soon


Answered in recent updates lol ;)



I honestly don't know, I prefer regulators like PPH, but can't say any antacid is good/bad. Stan said any simple thing will do the job. I hope they don't interact. We can't really know from success testimonials if that helped or not .. We need the same person to die twice, once with antacid and second time without




~


Note to self -- add Fasting Rules (inc Alcohol)

I bet those people would be SO pleased with us : "oh, sorry, we had to bring you back because we need to collect more data....."

 

[SugarbushMtn]

Dont understand the theory against PPIs. If you want to reduce the creation of stomach HCl, there is no better way. The only problem is it takes days, 3-5 days to become fully effective. Maybe that is the concern if someone takes it short term, it will not reduce HCl and therefore is pointless as a stat dose or even a day or two before the SN.

 

[BlueWidow]

Thank you so much for creating this @Quarky00. Thank you for taking all the time and effort. Even though I mostly have my regime down and I am close to my ctb time now, I am always looking to refine the process with any new information, so this is most helpful to me. Thank you.

On a side note, someday somebody should do a time study in which they create one of these faqs and then time how long it takes for it to get completely screwed up with people asking the same question over and over.
I can't imagine that it takes very long before it gets completely messed up. That's why it's even more amazing when people like you take the time and effort to create one.

 

[SpaceForGrace]

Really appreciate the effort here, @Quarky00. Any new insights on Milk of Magnesia? I know some had this on their regimen. This is the only antacid I can get a hold of. Does it help, or does not make a difference, so just better off without? Arguments have been made towards simplicity, so would like to know your thoughts.