"Narcissistic" is typically a term used to describe those who happen to be self-centred with an exaggerated sense of self-importance which is usually marked by one having an outrageous amount of love and admiration for one's self. Hating yourself goes against one of the main key aspects of that term.
Someone obsessing over their flaws is more so due to us being a social species and thus feeling naturally inclined to put a lot of importance on how others think of us. Same thing with talking about ourselves. People in general tend to find that talking about themselves provides them with feelings of pleasure, but this is the case even when it comes to us mentioning neutral things about ourselves. This is, again, a natural inclination that we happen to have due to us being a social species, not necessarily due to some strong sense of self-importance. These are things that are just byproducts of evolution that we do not have much control over. These aren't signs of narcissism behaviour, especially since these do not play into having a grand sense of admiration for oneself.
Those who tend showcase a lot of narcissism traits usually happen to have a high sense explicit self-worth, explicitly thinking if themselves as being above others. The main focus people tend to have when talking about narcissism is this aspect.
Valid point about narcissism traditionally being seen as someone who's self-centered with an inflated sense of self-importance. But psychological research shows that narcissism is more complex than just loving yourself. Narcissism can also be driven by deep insecurity, and that's why self-hatred is tied into it.
It might seem like hating yourself goes against the idea of narcissism, but narcissists don't always have high self esteem. Honestly many of them have low implicit self-esteem, despite appearing confident on the surface. They still obsess over how others see them, whether it's positive or negative, and that self-obsession can manifest in ways that look a lot like self-hatred.
You're right that as social beings, we naturally care about how we're perceived, but when someone constantly fixates on their flaws and assumes people are judging them, they're still putting themselves at the center of every interaction. That's what makes it narcissistic it's the focus on the self
Narcissism. Is. Not. Just. About. Thinking. You're. Better. Than. Others. It's about being overly focused on yourself, which can happen whether you love or hate yourself.
That's an interesting idea. My Grandma said something similar to me once. I must have been saying how much I hated how I looked and she replied it was vain of me to be so obsessed with my appearance. Nice bit of reverse psychology in a way. I didn't like the idea of being vain at all.
Athough really, in both cases- narcissism and vanity are surely more descriptive of a person who has a very high opinion of themselves.
I'm not sure I agree with it entirely though. I suspect a lot of people with self hatred have internalised hate that's been directed at them. Sometimes by actual narcissists! They have to be among the best in bullying people, gaslighting them and making them hate themselves.
Of course, the narcissist can't have gotten that way by chance either. Undoubtably, they must have internalised things to make them the way they are.
Still- self hatred isn't always expressed. Sometimes, it's just something that's festering in someone underneath and they're doing all they can to live with it without others knowing the extent of it. It's doubt in a way. Doubt that we don't measure up to the rest of humanity. That isn't entirely self centred. It could be that the person is afraid that they can't in fact contribute to society the way other people can.
Plus, actual narcissists display common types of (incredibly destructive) behaviour towards other people. People that hate themselves I often find to be genuinely empathetic towards others.
But sure, I expect most of us are focussed on ourselves. We've been encouraged to do that since birth. Maybe our brains are geared to do that. It's not like we're part of a hive mind. Maybe a person can't even become suicidal without being a bit narcissistic- suicide is all about what we want or what we want to escape.
You bring up a lot of interesting points. You mentioned that narcissism and vanity typically refer to people who have a high opinion of themselves. As stated before. That's traditionally how we view narcissism, but it's not the full picture. People with narcissistic traits can also experience deep insecurity and self-loathing, which is why you often see narcissists seeking constant validation from others or acting out to cover up their feelings of inadequacy. This can overlap with self-hatred, because even though the person might hate themselves, they are still obsessively focused on how they're perceived, just in a negative light.
When you say self-hatred might come from internalized hate from others, especially from actual narcissists, you're definitely onto something. Narcissists can be incredibly damaging to those around them, manipulating or gaslighting people into feeling worthless. This can lead to someone internalizing that negativity, which is why self-hatred can stem from abusive relationships with narcissists. But that still fits within the idea that self-hatred can become a form of narcissism because the focus on one's own flaws and shortcomings is still a type of self-centered thinking. It's like the person is stuck in a loop of "I'm not good enough," but that thought still revolves around them.
However, i will concede the point that periods of self-hatred are not always narcissism, and could be caused by trauma related incidents or other related mental illness. Although these forms of self-hatred tend to go away with time and/or proper treatment.
I would also like to mention, it could be seen as outwardly destructive when someone lays out their emotional baggage onto an unwilling participant if they aren't ready for that. Some people just can't handle dark emotional weight. In the same way the traditional narcissist manipulates others to get what they want, the covert narcissist manipulates others with guilt and sympathy. They attact attention by preying upon the empathy of others.
Your point about self-hatred not always being expressed is definitely true. Some people hide it well, but the internal focus is still there, eating away at their self-esteem. This doesn't automatically mean they're narcissistic in the grandiose sense, but it does mean they're still intensely focused on their perceived inadequacies. Whether it's expressed or not, the person is still centering their thoughts on themselves, which fits into a broader definition of narcissism.
When you mentioned people with self-hatred being empathetic, it's important to note that narcissists can also be empathetic (at least on a surface level.) They often display "cognitive empathy," they can understand other people's feelings but only to manipulate them. People who hate themselves, on the other hand, might genuinely care for others, but that doesn't negate the self-focus of their inner world.
You're right about society encouraging us to focus on ourselves, our brains are wired to survive and think about our own place in the world. And yes, suicidal thoughts do involve a hyper focus on the self, which in a way, could be seen as a form of narcissism. It's all about that inward focus, whether the person is thinking they're superior or unworthy.
Narcissism isn't just about self-love, it's about being fixated on yourself. Regardless of if it's in a positive way. Self-hatred, especially when obsessive, still fits within that framework.
