Discussion Responding to antiacid discussion

[Wrath]

I've read some reports here by people who took way less than is recommended in PPEH (just a few grams) and would very likely had died were they not 'rescued'. Interestingly they didn't report any serious adverse effects. In general they were quite positive about the method and said that they would use it again. The only drawback was a longer time to unconsciousness. There is also a report of a nurse who died from as little as 1 gram of SN. Do you think that taking a large amount (20+ grams) would actually cause most of the suffering and pain that some people unfortunately have experienced? To me it seems logical after reading what you said about the chemical reactions taking place in the stomach and how they probably could cause chemical burns in it and pain. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's just my opinion, but I think it's very irresponsible of Nitschke to recommend such high doses when a way smaller ones are lethal. Why? Because the more the better? One article I've read stated that for humans a lethal dose is somewhere between 0.7 and 3.6 grams. Other source stated a lethal dose to be 78 mg/kg of body weight. Even so, with my body weight (60 kg.) I'd only need 4.6 gr. And even if I double that it would be 9.2 gr. Why on Earth would I need to take 20 or 25 gr? I want to euthanize myself (euthanasia actually means 'good death') and not to simply execute myself.

Once I read somewhere that if you live by the book you'll die from a mistake in it. For so many people PPEH is like the Bible and they would rather follow it by the letter because it is THE BOOK than do any extra research and learn from as many experiences as they can, and there are plenty of those on this site.

Also, LD50 is not a good reference for humans, as these values are derived from tests on animals, mostly rats and rats are generally known to tolerate way higher doses of poisons than humans.

I'm looking forward to your reply!

New thread because of mod post.

Adding my own opinion. Wouldn't potential discomfort from pure sn be defeated by taking antiacids? It's anecdotal but going off of the hundreds of posts I've read on here, the ones that took antiacids seemed to have better results. I can't conclude anything yet though. I would like to hear your opinion. Antiacid or not is still one of the biggest what-ifs on this forum.

Antiacid debate you need it or not for SN Method

Antiacid debate you need it or not: In 2019, when Stan wrote his guide he used Ppeh as a reference and that year ppeh book recommended to use antiacid In Stan own words, "so what is this gastric juices? Well there are a lot of enzymes and this thing called Hydrochloric Acid. A chemical...

sanctioned-suicide.net

We have discussions about whether it will delay consciousness, leading to more peace if not taken.

Why antacids for SN are useless if metoclopramide or domperidone is used

The September 2022 update of the PPeH removed the recommendation of using an antacid when taking sodium nitrite (SN). In the April 2022 edition, the basis for this recommendation was “reducing the amount of gastric acid in the stomach”: A reliable death is dependant on the nitrite overwhelming...

sanctioned-suicide.net

We have discussions that it's not useful in the presence of antiemetics.

SN - A Comprehensive guide including method

I don't know why it should be ruined...ppl with try to ask questions that are not in the main topic...the difference between this and the previous one is the previous don't have so much useful info on the first page so people had to scroll 180 pages to get what they wanted and maybe even after...

sanctioned-suicide.net

SN Successful and Unsuccessful cases 2023 update

I have combined and added all the brief summary of all the attempts, assumed successful and unsuccessful, of SN suicide. These are all posts that the member has made to document the method, news articles, and scientific articles. If I have missed any I apologise and it would be great if you can...

sanctioned-suicide.net

And we have discussions about the chemical reactions that it avoids, leading to less discomfort due to less converted salt.

I'm leaning towards yes for antiacid.

 

[UltimateTrip]

After reading the post that I quoted in that other thread I'm leaning towards an antacid too. Especially that I don't have access to a recommended antiemetic. And after all the reports that I've read and other data from articles regarding the effective lethal dose of SN for humans, I'm also leaning towards a sufficient (but not unnecessarily excessive) dose of SN. An antacid + a reasonable dose of SN would lead to less irritation and damage to the stomach which would lead to a more peaceful and comfortable deliverance.

At the moment SN is my backup method. But if I were to go that way, my regimen would probably look something like this: amitriptyline (no access to benzos) + ibuprofen + an antacid (30 min prior to SN) + 5 gr. SN with a backup dose of 2-5 gr. SN in case I vomit. Also, I'm considering an option to use gelatin capsules because 1) it's very likely I'd want to puke just because of the taste alone and 2) because there were a few reports of people using them and finding them to be helpful. One user first tried SN in capsules, failed (was 'saved'). The second time he took SN in water and failed. And in his last and successful attempt he used capsules again. But I don't know how much an antacid would affect the break down of capsules in the stomach.

 

[UltimateTrip]

P.S. I remebered that I have a variant of CBD that is stronger than classic CBD. I might use it as a sedative and an antiemetic. I thought I'd mention it in case some people don't have an access to a prescription antiemetic but can easily get some CBD.

 

[UltimateTrip]

I've posted the same information in another thread but since this one is dedicates to antacids I'll copy it here too...

Although the article I'll be quoting is referring to feral pigs, the specific points I'll be addressing can also be considered from a human perspective. We belong to the animal kingdom, whether we want it or not.

"The pH of the bait (in our case water solution?*) should be 7 or higher to inhibit decomposition of sodium nitrite into bitter products. It is preferred that the pH should be higher than 7. It is particularly preferred to incorporate an alkaline material into the bait, such as calcium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate (baking soda*), that can neutralize stomach acid and inhibit vomiting."

"Another difficulty of using sodium nitrite as a toxicant is that feral hogs can sometimes vomit the baits. The acidic decomposition of sodium nitrite in gastric juices can lead to the release of noxious, gaseous by-products that can induce vomiting. This tendency can be counteracted by incorporating into the bait antiemetic compounds, antacid compounds, or both. Antacids include such compounds as sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate (baking soda*), calcium carbonate (used in some antacid pills*), magnesium hydroxide (mentioned in PPH*), magnesium carbonate (used in some antacid pills*), potassium carbonate, amines (e.g. from fish), and potassium bicarbonate... Then after consumption the antacids can help neutralize gastric acid, both inhibiting the breakdown of sodium nitrite in vivo, and also helping to reduce vomiting. Our preliminary results have shown that sodium carbonate is effective in reducing vomiting after toxicant baits are consumed. Anti-emetics can also be employed, for example taste-free ginger extracts containing gingerols. Gingerols directly inhibit vomiting via pharmacological action on serotonin type-3 receptors in the digestive system. Gingerols have the same mechanism of action as drugs such as Zofran (ondansetron), which are prescribed in humans for the treatment of severe, chemotherapy-induced nausea."

https://patents.google.com/patent/US11992013B2/en

 

[woohyun]

After reading the post that I quoted in that other thread I'm leaning towards an antacid too. Especially that I don't have access to a recommended antiemetic. And after all the reports that I've read and other data from articles regarding the effective lethal dose of SN for humans, I'm also leaning towards a sufficient (but not unnecessarily excessive) dose of SN. An antacid + a reasonable dose of SN would lead to less irritation and damage to the stomach which would lead to a more peaceful and comfortable deliverance.

At the moment SN is my backup method. But if I were to go that way, my regimen would probably look something like this: amitriptyline (no access to benzos) + ibuprofen + an antacid (30 min prior to SN) + 5 gr. SN with a backup dose of 2-5 gr. SN in case I vomit. Also, I'm considering an option to use gelatin capsules because 1) it's very likely I'd want to puke just because of the taste alone and 2) because there were a few reports of people using them and finding them to be helpful. One user first tried SN in capsules, failed (was 'saved'). The second time he took SN in water and failed. And in his last and successful attempt he used capsules again. But I don't know how much an antacid would affect the break down of capsules in the stomach.

Hi, I have a couple of questions on your backup method:
1. Pharmaceutical sedatives appear to be really difficult to obtain without prescription. Without this sedative, how would it affect the chances of success? My understanding is it will increase pain / discomfort, but is not related to the success rate.
2. Would 1g capsules work in this case? Anything smaller and it seems you would have to invest dozens of capsules, which I'm not sure how effective or comfortable it would be.

 

[peewee]

are just chewing some rennies ok? how many?

 

[woohyun]

After reading the post that I quoted in that other thread I'm leaning towards an antacid too. Especially that I don't have access to a recommended antiemetic. And after all the reports that I've read and other data from articles regarding the effective lethal dose of SN for humans, I'm also leaning towards a sufficient (but not unnecessarily excessive) dose of SN. An antacid + a reasonable dose of SN would lead to less irritation and damage to the stomach which would lead to a more peaceful and comfortable deliverance.

At the moment SN is my backup method. But if I were to go that way, my regimen would probably look something like this: amitriptyline (no access to benzos) + ibuprofen + an antacid (30 min prior to SN) + 5 gr. SN with a backup dose of 2-5 gr. SN in case I vomit. Also, I'm considering an option to use gelatin capsules because 1) it's very likely I'd want to puke just because of the taste alone and 2) because there were a few reports of people using them and finding them to be helpful. One user first tried SN in capsules, failed (was 'saved'). The second time he took SN in water and failed. And in his last and successful attempt he used capsules again. But I don't know how much an antacid would affect the break down of capsules in the stomach.

I have a couple more questions:
1. Stan's guide mentions 25g of SN but you mentioned 5g, why that number specifically?
1. Do you have the thread where someone tried and was successful with capsules?

Overall I'm interested in looking into this method more as the idea of not having to bother with antiemetics sounds great (almost too good to be true).

 

[black money boys]

is

 

[VioletWitch]

This paper mentions someone who took 6000mg or 6g and was only saved thru significant medical intervention. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073823000609