Reincarnation Soul Trap

[Smaragdine]

Hi,
I'm new to this site and I wanted to ask if there are people here who are aware of the reincarnation soul trap hypothesis and take that into account regarding their views on preparing for exiting. A little intro to the topic can be found here for example.

Because most people here seem to assume that death equals non-existence.

 

[Namarupa]

I've been having nightmares about Samsara/Metempsychosis/Hell for the past few months. As for reincarnation itself, as far as I'm aware of, it isn't present in the belief systems of any seriously regarded religious tradition in human history. It's mostly a misinterpretation of Buddhist cosmology.

 

[Soontobegoner]

I've been having nightmares about Samsara/Metempsychosis/Hell for the past few months. As for reincarnation itself, as far as I'm aware of, it isn't present in the belief systems of any seriously regarded religious tradition in human history. It's mostly a misinterpretation of Buddhist cosmology.

Hinduism got alot of reference to it but I don't care for that one. I found Buddhist explanation more realistic. Why do you say they got it misinterpreted?... Buddha used to relay stories of his own past life and sometimes of other people. Unless budhha was a scam artist or a fool parading as enlighten... His words should be taken into account as well no?

 

[Smaragdine]

I've been having nightmares about Samsara/Metempsychosis/Hell for the past few months. As for reincarnation itself, as far as I'm aware of, it isn't present in the belief systems of any seriously regarded religious tradition in human history. It's mostly a misinterpretation of Buddhist cosmology.

Hinduism? I don't care all to much about religions anyway, but more the NDE testemonies and their implications. And they happen worldwide, no matter the background of believe (or lack there of).

 

[sserafim]

I believe in reincarnation and the soul trap. I believe that we're all stuck in a reincarnation cycle on this prison planet (aka earth). According to Buddhism, we're all forced to reincarnate, and the only way to escape samsara (the cycle of rebirth) is through nirvana (enlightenment). The believers of prison planet theory think that escaping is as easy as refusing to go into the light though. I don't know what would happen to you or where you would end up if you do that. The Tibetan Book of the Dead says to go into the first white light and recognize it as your mind, but you're only able to do this if you've practiced Buddhism enough and attained a certain level. For most people, this isn't even an option and they're forced to reincarnate against their will. Buddhists also think that committing suicide gives you negative karma, which affects your rebirth in the next life

 

[Smaragdine]

I've been having nightmares about Samsara/Metempsychosis/Hell for the past few months. As for reincarnation itself, as far as I'm aware of, it isn't present in the belief systems of any seriously regarded religious tradition in human history. It's mostly a misinterpretation of Buddhist cosmology.

May I ask about the nature of those nightmares? What happened in them?

I believe in reincarnation and the soul trap. I believe that we're all stuck on this prison planet (aka earth). According to Buddhism, we're all forced to reincarnate, and the only way to escape samsara (the cycle of rebirth) is through nirvana (enlightenment). The believers of prison planet theory think that escaping is as easy as refusing to go into the light. I don't know what would happen to you or where you would end up though. The Tibetan Book of the Dead says to go into the first white light and recognize it as your mind, but you are only able to do this if you've practiced Buddhism enough. For most people, this isn't even an option and they're forced to reincarnate against their will

I think buddhism comes with many problems. Firstly, If the historical Buddha did indeed exist *and* would have been truthful about his "life is suffering" insight, he would have to have told people that procreation is a crime against life. But therefore narcissisticly insulted his whole social environment, and would have most likely be killed (see socrates, jesus etc., even if those are just stories). So either he lets say adjusted the truth or his followers did. And since most of his followers would either have children or would be afraid to see the act of their parents bringing them into this realm as a crime, the followers would have watered the teachings down heavily. And whatever the Buddha saw or didn't saw, even if we would have a 100% true record of his experiences and they would be also 100% translatable into human language, that wouldn't say anything about their correctnes. I think logic, ethics and training oneself in astral projecting are more relaible than any wolrd religion or spiritual practise, which is, since carried through the centuries by people who haven't denounced proceration, necesarrily deeply corrupted.

The believers of prison planet theory think that escaping is as easy as refusing to go into the light though.

That is sadly true for most of them, yes, and its absurd. I had many arguments with some of them about this ignorant talking point. As long as we are here, we don't know. But we can sharpen our mind for the problem.

 

[Namarupa]

May I ask about the nature of those nightmares? What happened in them?

They mostly start pleasant, I'm usually alone in tranquility. Then it gets progressively more maddening as I become aware of the nature of eternal punishment. I can't use my senses, I try to scream without success.

In one of those nightmares I heard someone (I Think it was an archangel) describe to me my sentence. I'd have to live in this purgatory for a hundred years in order to cleanse my soul. It felt relieving, in comparison to the utter despair I felt at the thought of eternity.

Writing this reminded me of a passage I once read of a Catholic mystic describing his visions: "Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, thirty-threethousand people also died. Out of this number, Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell."

 

[Soontobegoner]

If the historical Buddha did indeed exist *and* would have been truthful about his "life is suffering" insight, he would have to have told people that procreation is a crime against life.

Actually budhha was not the only one in that period, Mahavira... From Jain relegion (it's not as popular as Buddhism is) held the same belief regarding reincarnation.

As to discouraging procreation.... Buddha encouraged everyone to become monk and those who couldn't practice monk hood chose to be an householder practicing Buddhism . Not being involved in sexual activities is one of the 5 rules of practicing Buddhism.

 

[Namarupa]

Actually budhha was not the only one in that period, Mahavira... From Jain relegion (it's not as popular as Buddhism is) held the same belief regarding reincarnation.

As to discouraging procreation.... Buddha encouraged everyone to become monk and those couldn't could practice rules being an householder. Not being involved in sexual activities is one of the 5 rules of practicing Buddhism.

If I'm not mistaken, Buddhism believes in the non-existence of a self or soul, what is there to transmigrate?

 

[Soontobegoner]

If I'm not mistaken, Buddhism believes in the non-existence of a self or soul, what is there to transmigrate?

It's just a different way of addressing the same thing. Buddha rejected soul abbreviation because those time term soul was associated with hindu practices and as per budhha they had wrong belief. So Buddhist call it consciousness.

 

[Smaragdine]

They mostly start pleasant, I'm usually alone in tranquility. Then it gets progressively more maddening as I become aware of the nature of eternal punishment. I can't use my senses, I try to scream without success.

In one of those nightmares I heard someone (I Think it was an archangel) describe to me my sentence. I'd have to live in this purgatory for a hundred years in order to cleanse my soul. It felt relieving, in comparison to the utter despair I felt at the thought of eternity.

Writing this reminded me of a passage I once read of a Catholic mystic describing his visions: "Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, thirty-threethousand people also died. Out of this number, Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell."

Interesting, thank you for sharing. In the dream: How did you react to that archangel and pronouncement of your sentence? Did you accept this procedure as just? Did you accept the legitimacy of the process? Did you believe that this was a necessary means to cleanse your soul?

Actually budhha was not the only one in that period, Mahavira... From Jain relegion (it's not as popular as Buddhism is) held the same belief regarding reincarnation.

As to discouraging procreation.... Buddha encouraged everyone to become monk and those who couldn't practice monk hood chose to be an householder practicing Buddhism . Not being involved in sexual activities is one of the 5 rules of practicing Buddhism.

"Buddhist teachings on sexual ethics are not clearly formulated but there are two general ideas that run through Buddhist ethics on this matter: celibacy is preferred to marriage, and the only legitimate forms of sexual contact within marriage should be procreative in nature."

It's just a different way of addressing the same thing. Buddha rejected soul abbreviation because those time term soul was associated with hindu practices and as per budhha they had wrong belief. So Buddhist call it consciousness.

That is my understanding of buddhist views too. But I think the answer buddism gives here is a cop-out. Because with that Buddhists adopt the idea of reincarnation and that reincarnation isn't something blind, but instead a very elaborate process which can be a way to reach nirvana, but avoid the answer of who or what is behind it. Why suffering and the wheel of samsara in the first place? Of course every buddhist would say "nobody, we don't believe in an personal god or deities". That there is this intelligent fabric of reality, which transfers the spiritual essence of a person from body to body over potentially thousands of incarnations, that this process has an (ideal) destination (nirvana), but that the nature of the intelligence/force behind that process is never addressed... I don't see how this is not a form of spiritual gaslighting. Gaslighting and absurdity on the same level like in Christianity where it is never addressed why again exactly god has to incarnate and kill himself in human form in order to free humanity of sin.
In both narratives the core question which every child asks - "Why suffering?" - is purposefully obscured.

 

[doneforlife]

Interesting, thank you for sharing. In the dream: How did you react to that archangel and pronouncement of your sentence? Did you accept this procedure as just? Did you accept the legitimacy of the process? Did you believe that this was a necessary means to cleanse your soul?

"Buddhist teachings on sexual ethics are not clearly formulated but there are two general ideas that run through Buddhist ethics on this matter: celibacy is preferred to marriage, and the only legitimate forms of sexual contact within marriage should be procreative in nature."

That is my understanding of buddhist views too. But I think the answer buddism gives here is a cop-out. Because with that Buddhists adopt the idea of reincarnation and that reincarnation isn't something blind, but instead a very elaborate process which can be a way to reach nirvana, but avoid the answer of who or what is behind it. Why suffering and the wheel of samsara in the first place? Of course every buddhist would say "nobody, we don't believe in an personal god or deities". That there is this intelligent fabric of reality, which transfers the spiritual essence of a person from body to body over potentially thousands of incarnations, that this process has an (ideal) destination (nirvana), but that the nature of the intelligence/force behind that process is never addressed... I don't see how this is not a form of spiritual gaslighting. Gaslighting and absurdity on the same level like in Christianity where it is never addressed why again exactly god has to incarnate and kill himself in human form in order to free humanity of sin.
In both narratives the core question which every child asks - "Why suffering?" - is purposefully obscured.

"That there is this intelligent fabric of reality, which transfers the spiritual essence of a person from body to body over potentially thousands of incarnations, that this process has an (ideal) destination (nirvana), but that the nature of the intelligence/force behind that process is never addressed.."

Exactly this. I too have been wondering. I am not very sure about this, but what I know is that Buddha was silent on "God" topic. He neither confirmed nor denied. Please do correct me if I am wrong. I did find few queries addressed in Hinduism, where this driving force is God and everything happening to us is our own karma being reflected. But then I never understood, why the cycle began? I do understand why it keeps continuing though. If we are all souls and are capable of eternal existence and have always existed before physical organic life developed , before this solar system came into existence, then why create all this and why not continue with the same state of eternal existence that was in place .

 

[offbalance]

Hi,
I'm new to this site and I wanted to ask if there are people here who are aware of the reincarnation soul trap hypothesis and take that into account regarding their views on preparing for exiting. A little intro to the topic can be found here for example.

Because most people here seem to assume that death equals non-existence.

I like to believe we get to choose whether we get to incarnate or not, I know some others who believe that as well, but our human self doesn't necessarily have the will of our higher self, that actually wants to incarnate. I just hope wherever I incarnate next, it's easier. I like to think we all go into a place of love and prepare for the next life, being stronger the next time around. That's what I'm hoping for

 

[Smaragdine]

"But then I never understood, why the cycle began? I do understand why it keeps continuing though. If we are all souls and are capable of eternal existence and have always existed before physical organic life developed , before this solar system came into existence, then why create all this and why not continue with the same state of eternal existence that was in place ."

Because there is nothing to understand. Its a psychotic lie. In some sense monotheistic religions are even better, because it is more easy to see through, that a god behind this world can not be at the same time all loving, all powerful and all knowing. A child of average intelligence can figure that out. Buddhism, like atheism, takes intent away. That makes it harder to refuse the whole idea. But it is not less absurd or cruel.

 

[sserafim]

I like to believe we get to choose whether we get to incarnate or not, I know some others who believe that as well, but our human self doesn't necessarily have the will of our higher self, that actually wants to incarnate. I just hope wherever I incarnate next, it's easier. I like to think we all go into a place of love and prepare for the next life, being stronger the next time around. That's what I'm hoping for

Don't you hope for the whole cycle to end?

 

[offbalance]

Don't you hope for the whole cycle to end?

Yeah, but if it can't that's the next best thing I suppose

 

[sserafim]

Yeah, but if it can't that's the next best thing I suppose

Do you really think we choose to reincarnate? Buddhists believe that we're forced to

 

[deadinsidex2]

Hi,
I'm new to this site and I wanted to ask if there are people here who are aware of the reincarnation soul trap hypothesis and take that into account regarding their views on preparing for exiting. A little intro to the topic can be found here for example.

Because most people here seem to assume that death equals non-existence.

The idea is a false myth perpetuated initially by some conspiracy theorists, there is no soul trap people who have regular controlled out of body experiences have testified that there is no such thing it's just gloomy nonsense related to the lizard people theory lol reptilians are controlling the earth and there is a soul trap yeah don't think so xD again all the legit ppl who can go out of body have completely refuted this.

 

[offbalance]

Do you really think we choose to reincarnate? Buddhists believe that we're forced to

honestly there's so many beliefs floating around out there but the force thing doesn't resonate with me with the afterlife being a place of love and joy.

Even if we are, it doesn't make sense that we wouldn't have some mercy at least (by that I mean the afterlife preparing us with more love and strength before going into the next life) this is just something I read and it resonated with me but it makes sense. I don't think suicides are punished at all cuz that wouldn't make sense with a loving afterlife.

 

[Smaragdine]

I like to believe we get to choose whether we get to incarnate or not.

honestly there's so many beliefs floating around out there but the force thing doesn't resonate with me with the afterlife being a place of love and joy.

Even if we are, it doesn't make sense that we wouldn't have some mercy at least (by that I mean the afterlife preparing us with more love and strength before going into the next life) this is just something I read and it resonated with me but it makes sense. I don't think suicides are punished at all cuz that wouldn't make sense with a loving afterlife.

But a loving afterlife would make sense with the life on earth? All the people having NDEs experiencing that "loving" afterlife, begging to not be send back in their body and all the pain - and being send back anyway?

 

[offbalance]

But a loving afterlife would make sense with the life on earth?

Yeah, I don't know why we choose to incarnate here. If we do choose

 

[sserafim]

honestly there's so many beliefs floating around out there but the force thing doesn't resonate with me with the afterlife being a place of love and joy.

Even if we are, it doesn't make sense that we wouldn't have some mercy at least (by that I mean the afterlife preparing us with more love and strength before going into the next life) this is just something I read and it resonated with me but it makes sense. I don't think suicides are punished at all cuz that wouldn't make sense with a loving afterlife.

Do you know how to find out your past life? I've always wanted to know mine. I tried the Brian Weiss past life regression video but it didn't work. I didn't see anything

 

[Smaragdine]

Yeah, I don't know why we choose to incarnate here. If we do choose

But you do know that the entities in the near death experiences according to all the testimonies recommend incarnation. So why do you think of that place as loving?

 

[offbalance]

But a loving afterlife would make sense with the life on earth? All the people having NDEs experiencing that "loving" afterlife, begging to not be send back in their body and all the pain - and being send back anyway?

Often they're sent back stronger and more driven though so that's some mercy at least

 

[Smaragdine]

Often they're sent back stronger and more driven though so that's some mercy at least

"some mercy" = loving?

 

[offbalance]

"some mercy" = loving?

Apparently the end goal for all of it is enlightenment and the spirit guides when they recommend incarnation, I reckon, think we're strong enough to handle Earth. Which is the fastest way to get enlightened apparently. But I don't think suicide is punished at all.
I agree though it would be better not to have to incarnate on Earth at all…
Maybe those in the afterlife know Earth sucks but it has to operate how it has to operate. At least until the universe reaches a spiritual evolution where no one else has to incarnate.

 

[Namarupa]

Interesting, thank you for sharing. In the dream: How did you react to that archangel and pronouncement of your sentence? Did you accept this procedure as just? Did you accept the legitimacy of the process? Did you believe that this was a necessary means to cleanse your soul?

The archangel had a very gracious, sublime presence, similar to that of those renaissance paintings of the Madonna. It seemed very natural to me that he was just. I can only recall the intense feeling of relief, to be honest. I'd accept any means necessary in order to not have to go through eternal punishment.

 

[offbalance]

Do you know how to find out your past life? I've always wanted to know mine. I tried the Brian Weiss past life regression video but it didn't work. I didn't see anything

I'd imagine lots of meditation and possibly meeting people you've connected with in past lives. I believe I met my twin flame (yeah, I'm skeptical of things but assuming all this is real) and got a glimpse of what I believe was a pL. So like, spiritual practice and meeting certain souls

 

[divinemistress36]

I like to believe we get to choose whether we get to incarnate or not, I know some others who believe that as well, but our human self doesn't necessarily have the will of our higher self, that actually wants to incarnate. I just hope wherever I incarnate next, it's easier. I like to think we all go into a place of love and prepare for the next life, being stronger the next time around. That's what I'm hoping for

Do you know how to find out your past life? I've always wanted to know mine. I tried the Brian Weiss past life regression video but it didn't work. I didn't see anything

Some psychics claim they can do past life regressions . You can book a session with them . I've done them for fun but I don't take it as an absolute truth

 

[sserafim]

I'd imagine lots of meditation and possibly meeting people you've connected with in past lives. I believe I met my twin flame (yeah, I'm skeptical of things but assuming all this is real) and got a glimpse of what I believe was a pL. So like, spiritual practice and meeting certain souls

How do you know if you've connected with someone in a past life? How did you know that they're your twin flame? I think that my crush might be my twin flame or soulmate, but he stopped talking to me over a year ago. I still don't know why