Venting "People who CTB are cowards"

[thewalkingdread]

Most people who spout that bullshit oxymoron are just the most pathologically callous, cold-ass, brutishly stupid, manipulative, psychopathic NPC bullies that this rat race of a human species can ever produce.

They simply have no empathy at all; and on top of it, they somehow still think it's fun to abuse and degrade people who are going through the most excruciating, immeasurable suffering by slandering them as "cowards."

Humans are such a disgusting piece-of-shit species... the world would be better off without them.

Alas, that won't happens anytime soon because these people keep "popping babies" as if they were Gremlins or Elon Musk...

 

[heliophobic]

I've had this argument many times with people. I find that it's usually people that have never been suicidal that call it "selfish". It's anything but. When someone is suicidal, they feel like a burden and are trying to save everyone around them from having to deal with that. They're thinking of everyone BUT themselves, so how is that selfish? Maybe if all of us that were desperately depressed just thought of ourselves "selfishly", we'd be happy instead, but that's not how it works. We get to be the sensitive, empathetic souls that see the suffering around us but are powerless to control it.

 

[UKscotty]

I think it depends on the context and situation. If someone is CTBing to escape justice or responsibility, that's pretty cowardly in my view.

Also, maybe if they have not given recovery a proper try.

If someone is depressed and can't escape it, then CTBing is actually the bravest thing they can do. The mind wants to live so it takes a lot of courage to overcome that.

 

[enduringwinter]

I think it depends on the context and situation. If someone is CTBing to escape justice or responsibility, that's pretty cowardly in my view.

Also, maybe if they have not given recovery a proper try.

Even in that case I don't think it's cowardly. I mean, they died. That's punishment enough. I don't think dying is easier than taking responsibilities. It might be unfair to others, but not cowardly.

I've started to realise how culture-dependent this mindset (living is the harder and more moral choice etc) is, as in, it is not the universal truth. For thousands of years in Eastern cultures killing oneself was honourable.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm okay with being a coward because I'm far more scared of certain mandatory aspects of life than I am death. At least the scary parts of death can be mitigated with a more peaceful method. Being forced to keep living and experiencing constant fear is partly why I want to CTB at all anyway.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I just think it intensely illustrates our different perspective on life itself a lot of the time. Why play a dangerous, risky and painful game if your view of the game is that it is corrupt, not worth your effort and pointless?

Is it 'cowardly' to resign from a chess match because you know you've lost or- you're at a stale mate and it will go on forever? Depends how much you care about the game I guess.

Same deal with life really. Something has to feel worth fighting for to put the effort in and appreciate the reward- if you even get one. Quite possibly you may not if things like anhedonia/ depression are at play. You may just hang on for a whole lot more monotony. Is that really all that brave? It probably feels kind of foolish to someone who places so little value on life itself.

Obviously, life is going to seem less trivial than a chess match to most people and where I suppose it does differ is- a suicide can devastate loved ones. I doubt it's many people's priority to hurt other people with their suicide though. It's a very unfortunate side effect and, some of us will hang on for years- even decades to spare them that pain. Will they consider that brave? Unlikely. They'll probably just take it for granted till you aren't there anymore. I think many of us are too selfishly wrapped up in our own lives to care that much about others. It's when things affect us we start to take notice.

It's not to say I think continuing to live can't be brave. I do actually admire elderly grandparents in my family who it seemed to me did hang on for as long as they could to be there for us. That was natural death rather than suicide. I do admire suicidal parents who are trying to hang on to be there for their children.

Beyond that though- actually creating a lifeform here that will be dependant on you, I do actually think it's kind of unfair to put this burden on people: 'Your death- especially suicide will upset other people so- don't do it.' Not that we shouldn't take it into account of course but ultimately- we didn't choose this.

We didn't choose or maybe even want people to care and become dependant on us. Perhaps to some extent, we invited it in- if we went out looking for friends and partners. A lot of the time though, we were in situations we couldn't have avoided and these relationships occurred as a result. We were born into families, went to school, college, uni, went to work. It's hard to avoid people completely and avoid some bonds forming. Those choices weren't really choices for us. Our parents made the choice to bring us here. Then, it's pretty much illegal or inviting in destitution if you don't get an education and then a job.

Maybe it's extreme to say but, I feel like we're born into a trap basically and, we're held here via emotional blackmail. I think that's utterly unreasonable. People seem to accept it because I suppose natilism is so normalised. They see life as the status quo that you simply have to accept and do what you can to work with.

We don't though and ultimately, no amount of shaming- calling it cowardly or, guilt tripping- calling it selfish is going to hold back the most desperate of us.

 

[sugarb]

I've had this argument many times with people. I find that it's usually people that have never been suicidal that call it "selfish". It's anything but. When someone is suicidal, they feel like a burden and are trying to save everyone around them from having to deal with that. They're thinking of everyone BUT themselves, so how is that selfish? Maybe if all of us that were desperately depressed just thought of ourselves "selfishly", we'd be happy instead, but that's not how it works. We get to be the sensitive, empathetic souls that see the suffering around us but are powerless to control it.

The suicidal are not unilaterally selfless angels. Such people don't exist but suicidal =\= selfless, sensitive, empathetic, trying to help others, etc as you said.

Case in point, me. By definition, my desire to CTB is extremely selfish. At no point has the thought of being a burden on my family factored into my suicide. It might later if I don't get out soon, but this is still all about how I feel and what I want.

I'm not sadistic. I don't want to hurt anyone, and I'll try to minimize the damage. But at the end of the day, when I CTB it'll be a net negative for literally everyone I care about and I'm going to do it anyway because I don't care enough to suffer through life for them.

 

[Edpal247]

I hate my life and AM a burden. Coward? Maybe

 

[thewalkingdread]

I feel like we're born into a trap basically and, we're held here via emotional blackmail. I think that's utterly unreasonable.

@Forever Sleep, as always, you wrote another well-thought-out and balanced response. I sincerely wish the world had many more people like you. You certainly are one of the fellow members of this forum I most enjoy reading.

Life would still be bad for many others reasons; but the world would suck way less. The lack of balanced opinions is one of the main reasons why it's getting worse day by day. It seems people are getting dumber and more radicalized in their own points of view — which only leads to tragedy, war and destruction.

Thanks for you input on this delicate matter.