Discussion Opinions on incels and “nice guys”?

[obei]

First of all, I dont wanna start an arguement, I just wanna have a conversation.
I dont hate them, just have different opinions from them, as I am a female myself.
If you are an incel or a woman or just someone who has an opinion on a topic, lets have a polite conversation :)
Also, if you dont know what an incel is, here is my description of them (you can tell me if I am wrong): incel is a term made by forums that describe a guy that dont seem to be able to get a female partner and have sex, so they kind of dont like all women because of it. They consider themself "nice guys" and tend to think women are money and power hungry and go only for "bad guys"

 

[EvisceratedJester]

My opinion on them isn't very positive. From the misogyny to the entitlement towards sex and relationships, to the communtities extreme toxicity, there aren't really any redeeming qualities I can think of that apply to them. It's funny, because from what I know, the incel community actually used to be a friendly online community that gave each other tips on things, like how to improve your social skills, but it sadly went to shit.

 

[4am]

either the most terminally online losers you'll ever see, or mass shooters, nothing in between

 

[sserafim]

Incels are misogynists. Well, they've met their match because I'm probably a misandrist. I also self identify as feminist. I've never had any positive experiences with men (apart from my grandpa and uncles who are actually nice). My dad abused me (physical, emotional, verbal, psychological) and I hate men. Abuse is normalized in Asian culture, so I didn't even know that this was classified as abuse. However, incels are incels out of failing to get relationships and to be successful with women, not because of abuse. I also think that incels are misguided. They project their hatred onto women instead of fixing themselves and seeing why they're unattractive and unloveable. Women are people; they're not objects that owe you anything or obey your every call and whim.

either the most terminally online losers you'll ever see, or mass shooters, nothing in between

Lol

 

[Agon321]

They are indifferent to me.

I'm half an incel.
Currently my age is 21
I can't talk to a girl 1 on 1. I've never had sex and never will.
In fact, I've never even been kissed.

However, I don't blame all women in the world. That would be completely idiotic. This is mainly my problem.
I'm not an interesting person.
It is also true that girls want strong guys.
We can fool ourselves, but this is the truth. We cannot cheat nature.
In this world you can't be a completely nice person and a pushover, because no one will respect you.
Sometimes you have to show your fangs and claws :).

At the very beginning you have to look for the problem in yourself, then in others.
Incels need to start respecting themselves.

 

[psp3000]

I do not have an opinion / I am only an observer at most I only find the topic / various subcultures within it and adjacent to it interesting because I want to know how it went

from this to what we see today and I am hoping that the episodes of this series are eventually found and aren't lost media anymore

Alana's Involuntary Celibate Site / Incel Site

Lost Episodes / The Incel Project

 

[Oliver]

The truth is that most incels simply have very bad genetics and are either too ugly or too short to ever make a woman attracted to them. It's simply the uncomfortable and extremely unfair truth. However, blaming women is very stupid since it's not women's fault that they are unattractive. Men and women are BOTH attracted to looks. It's just human nature, and yes it is sick and unfair that some people are born truly ugly and other people are born truly beautiful - but it's just how it is. Nothing we can do about it. You just have to make the best of what you got.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Incels are misogynists. Well, they've met their match because I'm probably a misandrist. I also self identify as feminist. I've never had any positive experiences with men (apart from my grandpa and uncles who are actually nice). My dad abused me (physical, emotional, verbal, psychological) and I hate men. Abuse is normalized in Asian culture, so I didn't even know that this was classified as abuse. However, incels are incels out of failing to get relationships and to be successful with women, not because of abuse. I also think that incels are misguided. They project their hatred onto women instead of fixing themselves and seeing why they're unattractive and unloveable. Women are people; they're not objects that owe you anything or obey your every call and whim.

Lol

Misandary and feminism don't really go together, despite what people claim. One important aspect to feminism is understanding that the patriarchy hurts all of us, including men. While the impact is much worse and more apparent in women, it still does end up harming men too. This can be seen in things, such as men being expected to only express their emotions via anger, male victims of DA and/or SA at the hands of female perpentrators not being taken seriously as a result of it going against the gender dynamic that is promoted by our society (man = strong and dominant, woman = weak and submissive), issues with men embracing their feminity, etc.

While misandry doesn't have the same systematic backings the same way misogyny does, it's still bad and isn't looked upon too fondly by a lot of feminists (at least in most of the feminist circles I've been in). It's more associated with radfems, who aren't liked that much by other feminists.

With that in mind, if you recognize your own misandary then it's important to try and unlearn it the same way it's important for us to unlearn our own misogyny. Misandary does more harm than good.

 

[persimmon]

One thing I found interesting when I started investigating the incel movement was photos of their meet ups. Most of them were pretty decent looking. No absolute stunners but a couple decently handsome, the majority in the middle who could definitely be improved by better grooming, none of them by any means grotesque. I'm not saying it's all in their heads but I'm sure social awkwardness is off the charts. The misogyny is obvious but terminally online communities seem to tend towards extreme views by their nature.

 

[kilowatt]

Incels get their name for a reason

 

[trashprincess]

I basically grew up raised by incels for the first 20 or so years of my life. Its a culture that's just bad for everyone.

Incels are just as shitty to each other as they are to women and other people they're prejudiced towards. It creates an environment where everyone is miserable, yet they're all convinced they like it.

It's like the 'Assassin Clan' trope popular in shonen anime. Like the Uchiha Clan of Naruto. Everyone suffers in the name of becoming stronger. The problem is, in the real world, growing up in the Uchiha Clan wouldn't make you strong, it would just give you debilitating PTSD.

Likewise, growing up an incel, you think you're making yourself stronger looking at gore and making fun of people, but none of that stuff has anything to do with strength. Real strength would mean discipline and emotional intelligence, things incels despise. Real weakness is having problems that your not doing anything about. And from my experience, being and incel is about ignoring your problems, and just creating more.

I just wish the incels could notice this too...

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm an incel and I agree we all suck. We should be ashamed of ourselves for even having the audacity to feel the way we do and euthanized for our transgressions. I unironically think the world would be such a better place if we were all just wiped out.

I do believe that being an incel is also a mindset thing more than anything. I'm tall and have good looks according to some people and yet I've still never been able to attract a woman I like long enough to have a relationship with them. What else could I be called except an incel in that case?

 

[obei]

I'm an incel myself. All women reject me because of my looks. Personality is a meme when it comes to sexual attraction.

True, but why hate for all female population because of the nature of attraction? Just asking, I am curious about ualls thought pattern on all that

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

True, but why hate for all female population because of the nature of attraction? Just asking, I am curious about ualls thought pattern on all that

Can't speak for that guy but nothing about being an incel mandates hating women. Incel simply stands for "involuntary celibate" and the term was even started by a woman. Involuntary: meaning against one's will. Celibate: meaning to live without any form of sex.

Best comparison I can make is Atheism. Nothing about atheism mandates a hatred for religion, it simply means a lack of belief in a higher power. Sure there are a handful of atheists who do hate religion but it's ridiculous to say they all do or that being atheist necessarily precludes a hatred for theism.

 

[escape_from_hell]

Truth is there are many men who are not attractive enough to get a real partner. The problem might be mental, physical, or social.

The struggle and subsequent loneliness and pain comes first. Then the misogyny. The origin of the misogyny is the pleasantries they are fed when they ask about their struggles. Basically they are told to hit the gym, take a shower, be funny/witty, and worst of all be nice. That is where the whole nice guy association originates.

If you are just not attractive that is mostly it. That is the cruel world in which we reside period. But they are not told this. They are instead given poor advice about what women do and do not find attractive and what to do to make themselves attractive. They become resentful because there is only so much you can change but they are fed the just-world fallacy over and over. Those who are on the border might find partners who do not really love them but use them for resources and jump ship at their low point, further deepening the resentment. (both sexes use each other in relationships so it's not a one-way phenomenon of course)

Now, unattractive people can and do still meet romantic partners on some other basis. They should not be misled that it is not a possibility at least. But it will be a rare thing. It will come with many years of torment trying. And in the end most relationships do not work out anyway.

They, and no beings, are entitled to anything. Life is not fair. They should be told the truth that if they did not develop into an attractive enough man by mid-20's or so that they will face a lifetime of loneliness and that society still expects them to be productive for tax harvesting purposes even though they are returning to a cold empty studio and are likely given poor treatment on account of their looks throughout the day. Of course also advised about the aforementioned much more reduced chance of lucking into a partner through social connections that likely will not work out well.

They should be told the truth that even very attractive people must go through many partners and damage and trauma before encountering some semblance of a genuine relationship. And even those fade. However, they should not be lied to about that. They should be well aware that those people will not endure the same degree of emotional pain from loneliness for extended periods (i.e. life).

This applies to women too. Maybe they are just given a healthier dose of reality and guidance from fellow women that emphasize dress and cosmetics which are popular in many cultures.

Unfortunately sexuality is also competitive. They will remain lonely as their fellow man in general is a competitor. They can and do sabotage each other for romantic prospects. You will notice those incel spheres are toxic places, even amongst themselves. They constantly harass each other, so they are not getting much healthy feedback from any place.

All that said. Do not underestimate the severity of the emotional pain they are experiencing. The horrendous behaviours you observe are partly driven by the pain. But mostly the bad attitude comes from combining that pain with the lack of forthrightness in what they are told versus what they experience. They should not have to turn to those toxic incel spheres to hear the truth. That just reinforces the misogyny.

It would benefit everyone to offer them euthanasia instead of showers. Do we hide diagnoses of terminal illnesses from patients who will face extreme suffering in their final days? Then why hide the diagnosis from incels. Give them nembutal for christ's sake and stop breeding especially if you yourself are not good looking or have high charisma.

 

[derpyderpins]

I'm not frequent enough on popular social media/forums to know how obnoxious incels as a group currently are.

As a concept, I do feel bad for them. They are a symptom of a lot that is wrong with our society right now, and it's just one of several bad mental health outcomes we're going to keep seeing more of. Of course, they are seeing the world in a distorted sense, and have given up on fixing it. Most of them could become someone better, someone capable of being loved, but they have a mental block on taking that path. As someone who's been posting on here a lot the last few days when I should be getting work done, I can sympathize with that.

It is more difficult to meet people and form relationships now than it used to be. I was with my college girlfriend for some time after graduating, and when we broke up and I started trying to meet someone else . . . it was just very different. I eventually succeeded, but I understand it is rough, and not saying either gender has it "worse," men face unique difficulties in this paradigm (as I'm sure women do, too.) This is going to lead to a rise in men giving up on making a relationship work, and some of them will declare themselves "incels".

None of that excuses any of them who take their frustration with their personal situation out on women, though.

 

[Oliver]

Truth is there are many men who are not attractive enough to get a real partner. The problem might be mental, physical, or social.

The struggle and subsequent loneliness and pain comes first. Then the misogyny. The origin of the misogyny is the pleasantries they are fed when they ask about their struggles. Basically they are told to hit the gym, take a shower, be funny/witty, and worst of all be nice. That is where the whole nice guy association originates.

If you are just not attractive that is mostly it. That is the cruel world in which we reside period. But they are not told this. They are instead given poor advice about what women do and do not find attractive and what to do to make themselves attractive. They become resentful because there is only so much you can change but they are fed the just-world fallacy over and over. Those who are on the border might find partners who do not really love them but use them for resources and jump ship at their low point, further deepening the resentment. (both sexes use each other in relationships so it's not a one-way phenomenon of course)

Now, unattractive people can and do still meet romantic partners on some other basis. They should not be misled that it is not a possibility at least. But it will be a rare thing. It will come with many years of torment trying. And in the end most relationships do not work out anyway.

They, and no beings, are entitled to anything. Life is not fair. They should be told the truth that if they did not develop into an attractive enough man by mid-20's or so that they will face a lifetime of loneliness and that society still expects them to be productive for tax harvesting purposes even though they are returning to a cold empty studio and are likely given poor treatment on account of their looks throughout the day. Of course also advised about the aforementioned much more reduced chance of lucking into a partner through social connections that likely will not work out well.

They should be told the truth that even very attractive people must go through many partners and damage and trauma before encountering some semblance of a genuine relationship. And even those fade. However, they should not be lied to about that. They should be well aware that those people will not endure the same degree of emotional pain from loneliness for extended periods (i.e. life).

This applies to women too. Maybe they are just given a healthier dose of reality and guidance from fellow women that emphasize dress and cosmetics which are popular in many cultures.

Unfortunately sexuality is also competitive. They will remain lonely as their fellow man in general is a competitor. They can and do sabotage each other for romantic prospects. You will notice those incel spheres are toxic places, even amongst themselves. They constantly harass each other, so they are not getting much healthy feedback from any place.

All that said. Do not underestimate the severity of the emotional pain they are experiencing. The horrendous behaviours you observe are partly driven by the pain. But mostly the bad attitude comes from combining that pain with the lack of forthrightness in what they are told versus what they experience. They should not have to turn to those toxic incel spheres to hear the truth. That just reinforces the misogyny.

It would benefit everyone to offer them euthanasia instead of showers. Do we hide diagnoses of terminal illnesses from patients who will face extreme suffering in their final days? Then why hide the diagnosis from incels. Give them nembutal for christ's sake and stop breeding especially if you yourself are not good looking or have high charisma.

Clever post and I agree with most of it. It really makes me sick to my stomach to think about how brutal, cynical and unfair nature really is. Your genetics will determine most of your life and that is just the honest and brutal truth of it. The absolute worst combination for a man is being both short and ugly. Your life is just one long humiliation and in most cases, probably not worth living. I sympathize with the pain that incels are going trough although I don't understand the misogony. It's not women's fault. It's much bigger than that. It's natures fault - and maybe a bad diet while growing up could also contribute in getting a less developed face/bonestructure later in life, but by and large it is simply just a fault of nature - a sick design imo.

 

[persimmon]

The two cofounders of Sanctioned Suicide originally founded multiple incel sites so we do owe them a debt. Maybe even a quick fumble? Not my call.

 

[Malaria]

I am not a huge fan of ContraPoints (nothing against her, I just no longer have any interest in politically-charged YouTube videos anymore, I tend to prefer books these days), but my thoughts on incels more or less was already said by her. A lot more eloquently than I ever could.

 

[LevUwU]

Into the blender with them I say!

 

[ForsakenDial]

Many incels who hate women are entitled assholes. They do not see the opposite sex as people. To them women are sexual objects. Their hatred forgoes any logic or reason. Rife with double standards as well.

- A woman is a whore if she sleeps around, but men are not in their view. Men are celebrated for sleeping with woman in their eyes.

- It is always somehow the woman's fault, even if the man does unspeakable things to her. But if a man is just inconvienced in the most inoffensive way possible.... Its still the woman's fault and shes a monster.

- Women are met to be servants for X,Y, and Z, but when men show those same traits it is acceptable. IE; A woman working as a doctor is seen as doing a nuturing role, somehow related to her "female instinct". But a man doing it makes him high earning and intelligent.

- If she has a career she is worthless and too mascline, she must find all her power and wealth through a man. If a woman then looks for that power through a man, she is now a gold digger and only cares about power.

A "nice guy" will insult a woman, degrade her, and if they could physically and sexually abuse her. But when woman don't want to be with them shes the monster. If a nice guy receives even a fifth of what she goes through they make it their mission to hurt women. We have men punching women on the streets in New York now because women don't want to sleep with them. A nice guy would shoot up a kindergarten if they were defenesless and attacked like that.

Nice guys, redpillers, and misogynistic incels (not all incels, misogynistic ones in specific) want the subjugation and suffering of women. They are another form of humanity's desire to gain pleasure through the harm of those they precieve weaker than them. They hate women, and I believe as women we should hate them just as much in return. They'll never love a woman, why should a woman love them?

 

[gingermacie]

Like all people, victims of societal circumstance. They were sold a dream that doesn't exist and many have developed insatiable entitlement due to it. If I were born male I can see how I could've slipped into the mentality. Experiencing the bitter reality of womanhood puts their ideology in perspective.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It depend on the definition of incels that people use. If you use the definition of incel as "involuntary celibate" which is the original definition of the word, then I have nothing wrong with them. However, if you use the definition of incel in the same way most people use it nowadays to describe a specific group of people who are involuntarily celibate but also hate women due to it, I don't like those types of people but, at the same time, I more so blame society and nature for creating these types of people instead of blaming them themselves. I doubt they would be hating all women for their own shortcomings if they were told the truth that you will have a significantly lower chance of getting women if you are ugly. However, they get fed the "just world" fallacy and people wouldn't explicitly say to them that they're ugly or unlikeable as people want to act polite

 

[untothedepths]

I think I may have met 'incels' in my life who tried to hook up with me. The thing is, I didn't say no to dating them because I found them unattractive, I simple really wanted to get to know them first sincerely. I want to at least foster some possibility of trust before even thinking about a relationship considering all of the abuse I have been through. Every time though without fail they would get mad at me for not giving them a chance to date them only after knowing me for a short time. I would just sit there helpless as I was claimed to have pushed them into a friend zone. That hurt a lot, so I just withdrew even more. Every relationship I've ever been has that "bar of entry" for me, no one is an exception. A guy could be a perfect "10" and I still wouldn't care. They would have needed to wait. I'm even less interested in appearances, they don't matter as much to me as a good person. So ironically, I would have loved to have been with a "nice guy". Maybe I was just too cautious.I just wanted to minimize pain that I could receive and the pain I could inflict on them (mostly uncomfortable situations dealing with my triggers).

That ship has set sailed though, and I have learned I am superbly uncomfortable with any sort of sexuality, which would possibly be a detriment to others. I am not fit to be in a relationship with anyone. I guess this doesn't help as I'm an abnormality as is, but some folks just want to get to know someone first before dating. Perhaps I was confused as to what dating and getting with someone really meant, but for me if I was dating someone, I was doing activities with them with the explicit purposes to be with them. I realize that this mind set is not for everyone, and people don't have all the time in the world.

 

[surroundedbydemons]

so they kind of dont like all women because of it

why hate for all female population because of the nature of attraction

I think it's better to approach this topic with an open mind.
Correlation is not causation. Being an incel (male/female) does not imply that the person hates the opposite gender.


I think the problem is the negative attitude towards them that perpetuates the negativity cycle. Take some comments here, for example:

either the most terminally online losers you'll ever see, or mass shooters, nothing in between

Incels are misogynists.

Into the blender with them I say!

Many incels who hate women are entitled assholes.

Just because some people give the community bad rep does not mean that all the people there are bad as a whole.

All the incels I knew were incredibly ambitious people who, unfortunately, had to sacrifice their social life. However, this is my biased observation because I studied at t1 college.


~~~
(Not an incel)

 

[ForsakenDial]

I think it's better to approach this topic with an open mind.
Correlation is not causation. Being an incel (male/female) does not imply that the person hates the opposite gender.


I think the problem is the negative attitude towards them that perpetuates the negativity cycle. Take some comments here, for example:


Just because some people give the community bad rep does not mean that all the people there are bad as a whole.

All the incels I knew were incredibly ambitious people who, unfortunately, had to sacrifice their social life. However, this is my biased observation because I studied at t1 college.


~~~
(Not an incel)

There are some incels who do not hate women. Those who said incels as a whole without clarification will most likely clarify their statements.

But lets not be dishonest here. Majority of them do. In almost every online space dominated by incels there is an overwhelming hate for the opposite sex. Elliot Roger and those like him are celebrated in their communities. The shootings targeting women, the rape of women, the belief that all women are whores and only sleep with "chads", etc.

One of the core beliefs some of these incel communities have is that women are ruining their lives because they won't have sex with them. Seeing women as objects. Anyone who peers into any incel dominated community sees this. Lets not pretend otherwise.

I think the problem is the negative attitude towards them that perpetuates the negativity cycle.

And not the open and blatant desire from the majority of incels to hurt women? We're going look at the group(women) who are relentlessly attacked, victims to physical violence, sexual harrassment and assault to sympathize with the perpetrators?

This is what women are talking about. In a world were there are people walking in the streets assaulting women, celebrating their rapes and murders, and abusing women somehow its still somehow women (the ones who have the most negativity towards incels, rightfully so) who perpetuates the cycle. All because women said they hate them back.

Like I said:

- It is always somehow the woman's fault, even if the man does unspeakable things to her. But if a man is just inconvienced in the most inoffensive way possible.... Its still the woman's fault...

And we're tired of it. I'm sick of victims being blamed for what evil people do to them. I'm sick of innocents being blamed for how evil people treat them. Its not okay when it happens to women or men.

You're obfuscating what majority of incel communities are by intentionally placing forth a minority example to represent them.

 

[surroundedbydemons]

In almost every online space dominated by incels there is an overwhelming hate for the opposite sex. [...] You're obfuscating what majority of incel communities are by intentionally placing forth a minority example to represent them.

I do not deny that there are online communities where misogynism/misandry is celebrated and seen as the norm. In fact, the overwhelming majority of those communities are, unfortunately, like that.
However, in my personal experience, I have rarely encountered such extreme attitudes in real life.

its still somehow women (the ones who have the most negativity towards incels, rightfully so) who perpetuates the cycle. [...] I'm sick of victims being blamed for what evil people do to them. I'm sick of innocents being blamed for how evil people treat them.

I did not mean to put it like that; apologies. I wanted to say that when there is hate around, the uninfluenced incels will naturally flock to people like Andrew Tate because they have nowhere to go otherwise. That is most likely how those hateful incels are created. They are provided with short-term support/understanding while the central figure does not care about the long-term consequences of it.

You can express hate towards incels, but I would say that it probably will not lead to a mutually beneficial outcome. Does it matter? It's up to you to decide.

~~~
By the way, I mentioned a similar idea about influencers/politicians in my post about racism and racial equality: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ably-going-to-kill-myself.154118/post-2434999

In politics, it's a common tactic to employ provocative ideas to generate a large following. Historically, religious differences have been exploited for this purpose. Do the people of power care about fighting for the truth or guiding the herd to achieve their goals? The latter seems more probable. Can racial differences be used as a weapon? Definitely, that is also used now as the US approaches the elections, although it is not taken to the extreme as in Nazi Germany.

~~~

And we're tired of it. I'm sick of victims being blamed for what evil people do to them. I'm sick of innocents being blamed for how evil people treat them. Its not okay when it happens to women or men.

That is understandable. I do not blame you for it.

You're obfuscating what majority of incel communities are by intentionally placing forth a minority example to represent them.

I might be, but again, that was just my experience that differed significantly from what could be observed online, and I would not want the online negativity to influence real-life interactions.

 

[ForsakenDial]

I do not deny that there are online communities where misogynism/misandry is celebrated and seen as the norm. In fact, the overwhelming majority of those communities are, unfortunately, like that.
However, in my personal experience, I have rarely encountered such extreme attitudes in real life.

I'm thankful you do not experience those attitude in real life. I can't say the same. And the real world consequences of these communities are a testament to how destructive they really are. From all the damage these groups are responsible for must be acknowledged when referring to incels.

It is the birthplace for ideologies like the Red Pill, Pick Up Artist, and others which has gained massive traction. All built around using a women and abandoning her. The sexual harassment women face from these groups are palpable. Women on this forum speak about how nice guys always in the end attack them.

These attitudes in real life are not shouted proudly majority of the time. There is consequence in harming those in positions of power. They look for vulnerable people to show what they truly believe in. The truth of a person is revealed by how they treat those who they have everything to gain and nothing to lose from hurting.

I did not mean to put it like that; apologies. I wanted to say that when there is hate around, the uninfluenced incels will naturally flock to people like Andrew Tate because they have nowhere to go otherwise. That is most likely how those hateful incels are created. They are provided with short-term support/understanding while the central figure does not care about the long-term consequences of it.

All is forgiven. I'm sorry for misunderstanding you.

These incels flock to Andrew Tate because they found a space to freely talk about their hatred of women. That is why they have nowhere else to go. A woman not sleeping with a man does not lead down the rabbit hole of the red pill by itself. No person is entitled to another person's body. A good person who is a virgin does not begin to support the subjugation of the entire population of the opposite sex.

Much less support a human trafficker who stated himself on many occasions how he convinces girls that he loves them, and then trafficks them. Young girls, like Vivian who was only fifteen when he groomed her into his "bottom bitch". A woman who is a tool to convince other women who were never in the sex industry to enter it. All in the pretense that Tate loved them.

There was always something within them that had abusive and malicious tendecies that led them to this route. The amount of understated evil in these groups must be the forefront of discussion.

You can express hate towards incels, but I would say that it probably will not lead to a mutually beneficial outcome. Does it matter? It's up to you to decide.

There is no beneficially mutual outcome. The terms of a majority of incels is for them to have the entitlement to a woman's body. Removing their rights, and making them dependant on them. Making it so women no longer have a choice. What matters is keeping the vulnerable safe. When women do sympathize with these nice guys, and these specifically misogynistic incels it always leads to a level of danger towards her.

Incels target women in their mass shootings or stabbing. They want to take revenge because they see "No" as a slight. Even one of the post in this very thread mentions how she tried to give these people a chance.

I think I may have met 'incels' in my life who tried to hook up with me. The thing is, I didn't say no to dating them because I found them unattractive, I simple really wanted to get to know them first sincerely. I want to at least foster some possibility of trust before even thinking about a relationship considering all of the abuse I have been through. Every time though without fail they would get mad at me for not giving them a chance to date them only after knowing me for a short time. I would just sit there helpless as I was claimed to have pushed them into a friend zone.

Also @untothedepths, I'm sorry you been through this. This is not your fault. Those men were entitled, and this is not a reflection of who you are as a person. You're a wonderful person for wanting to get to know someone. This means you value them, rather than any physical attribute. If you ever decide to date again, I hope you find someone who has similar values.

This is a real problem that comes from incels. They want to date immediately. They want sex immediately. They are not trying to get to know a woman because they don't think women have anything to get to know.

By the way, I mentioned a similar idea about influencers/politicians in my post about racism and racial equality: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ably-going-to-kill-myself.154118/post-2434999

-- In politics, it's a common tactic to employ provocative ideas to generate a large following. Historically, religious differences have been exploited for this purpose. Do the people of power care about fighting for the truth or guiding the herd to achieve their goals? The latter seems more probable. Can racial differences be used as a weapon? Definitely, that is also used now as the US approaches the elections, although it is not taken to the extreme as in Nazi Germany.

I apologize for the poor quoting here.

I agree that people in power do not care about truth. They do guide people to achieve their own ends. This does not mean those who fallen into this trap are any less dangerous. Women still must act accordingly to the threat even if its origin is elsewhere. People tried to talk racist, misogynist, and any other desire of subjugation out of those who are just evil. They are more ammendable in person because again, they might face consequences. But if they could put a bullet between their victim's eyes, or rape them, they shown time and time again they will. That is what they are fighting for. The forest is being lost for the trees.

 

[hot]

Lookism is definitely true - I think everyone will agree with me on this. And everyone suffers greatly from lookism. But i think that women definitely have it easier than men when it comes to dating. A 5/10 woman never has it the same difficult as a 5/10 man in dating, And I have often experienced in my life that 5/10 women don't want 5/10 men. Incels themselves have no desire to be incels, no one becomes that way because they feel like it. I agree with incels on this, but I think killing innocent people and hating woman is def. not the solution on this lol.

I definitely understand and agree with Incels on these things. But I definitely don't understand the misogynistic mindset. I wouldn't even call it misogyny anymore because Incels hate everything and everyone, they hate the whole world, they even hate men. Incels would like to see the whole world burn.

Btw this site once belonged to two incels, right? One of them also hosted 2 other famous incel forums.

 

[N33dT0D13]

Admittedly I don't have much interaction with incels and came to this thread wondering if they really considered themselves the same as "nice guys", they seem like different groups but idk. I'm used to the definition of them as involuntarily celibate and hating women but I guess the hating women part isn't mandatory, that's good to know. Lookism is real and does suck, I'm not completely devoid of sympathy for incels, I just don't have sympathy for the ones who do hate women or think it's okay to attack or hate on others but that goes for everyone. I'm still curious how much overlap there is between incels and "nice guys".