Discussion Opinions on incels and “nice guys”?

[Mirrory Me]

It's a strange and salty definition of a person, and the fact that people speculate on the reasons for it by belittling and generalizing their "characteristics"... At least it would annoy me if someone called me that.

 

[Terry A. Davis]

Incels don't even view women as human beings. They view us as objects. They need to first stop being misogynistic, and then maybe they would be justified in feeling entitled to a female. They call women "femoids". Can you really be justified in feeling entitled to half of the human which you're vehemently misogynistic against and view as objects? I'm sorry but I don't think that incels are justified

We're lumping a lot of people into a very narrow view of the world by using statements like this. Being involuntary celibate is a different thing from being a stereotype who hates women. Take a step back and realise your view of them is exactly the same as their view of women. Everyone loves to put people into boxes because its easier to understand but the reality is that human beings are very complex and situations are much more nuanced than people like to give credit to.

I've interacted with incel spaces for many years and my conclusion is that 90% of incels are quietly depressed and self hating. The loudest 10% are the people you are referring to.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

@Dr Iron Arc you just come across as a heartbroken guy from years ago, not really an incel like two of the other users on here.

No matter how heartbroken I am, I'm still involuntarily celibate and therefore an incel. Nothing could change that until I actually have a girlfriend which I don't deserve because I'm an incel and I might as well still be just as bad as all the others.

 

[Pikanoose]

They are indifferent to me.

I'm half an incel.
Currently my age is 21
I can't talk to a girl 1 on 1. I've never had sex and never will.
In fact, I've never even been kissed.

However, I don't blame all women in the world. That would be completely idiotic. This is mainly my problem.
I'm not an interesting person.
It is also true that girls want strong guys.
We can fool ourselves, but this is the truth. We cannot cheat nature.
In this world you can't be a completely nice person and a pushover, because no one will respect you.
Sometimes you have to show your fangs and claws :).

At the very beginning you have to look for the problem in yourself, then in others.
Incels need to start respecting themselves.

You are still an incel. There's no point in romanticising it, it is not at all OK to be a boring lame pushover and we must both work on this or we're doing ourself a disservice. The way I see it you're trying to feel like a good person which is a brutal trap to fall into.

I basically grew up raised by incels for the first 20 or so years of my life. Its a culture that's just bad for everyone.

Incels are just as shitty to each other as they are to women and other people they're prejudiced towards. It creates an environment where everyone is miserable, yet they're all convinced they like it.

It's like the 'Assassin Clan' trope popular in shonen anime. Like the Uchiha Clan of Naruto. Everyone suffers in the name of becoming stronger. The problem is, in the real world, growing up in the Uchiha Clan wouldn't make you strong, it would just give you debilitating PTSD.

Likewise, growing up an incel, you think you're making yourself stronger looking at gore and making fun of people, but none of that stuff has anything to do with strength. Real strength would mean discipline and emotional intelligence, things incels despise. Real weakness is having problems that your not doing anything about. And from my experience, being and incel is about ignoring your problems, and just creating more.

I just wish the incels could notice this too...

Shit like that just happens to males, if you end up at home with free time a computer, problems (bullying or just insecurities) and little (percieved) support you will end up online spamming hate towards women and other races (/pol/ faggotry). It's yet again, a brootal trap to fall into.

But like that's generally a cope. Whereas Women and especially desirable/sexhaver males (who YOU could end up with) can become bitter resentful and toxic in worse ways something you should be more concerned with.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Being an incel is more than just being involuntarily celibate though, it's a mindset and ideology of misogynistic views. I've never seen you lean in that direction. Following pickup artists and following the doctrine makes you an incel.

I don't have to follow the beliefs to be one unfortunately. There are Atheists who don't browse Reddit and Christians who don't go to church. I also don't speak Mandarin but that doesn't mean I'm not Chinese. Doesn't change who I am and trying to deny I'm an incel doesn't help either.

 

[Mirrory Me]

There's no joy in it for anyone if someone else is mentally moralized and put in a box. I even dreamed about this.

 

[DeadButDreaming]

Misandary and feminism don't really go together, despite what people claim. One important aspect to feminism is understanding that the patriarchy hurts all of us, including men. While the impact is much worse and more apparent in women, it still does end up harming men too. This can be seen in things, such as men being expected to only express their emotions via anger, male victims of DA and/or SA at the hands of female perpentrators not being taken seriously as a result of it going against the gender dynamic that is promoted by our society (man = strong and dominant, woman = weak and submissive), issues with men embracing their feminity, etc.

Those downsides are a small price to pay for the advantages bestowed by a patriarchy, not that we actually have a patriarchy in the West. But when we did you had a wife who stays at home, keeps the house clean, looks after your children, does the shopping, does the washing, and cannot divorce you unless you beat or cheat on her. That's more than enough compensation for, say, not being able to blubber at a funeral. You can argue that such a system is unethical, but from a male self-interest perspective a patriarchy is clearly advantageous.

As for incels, I don't see how wallowing in self pity does them any good. It's doesn't make them any more appealing and it doesn't them any happier. You can't hold your lack of sex appeal against the other people. They need to understand that a man needs some strength of personality to be appealing. I think they chalk all their failures up to their appearance.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Those downsides are a small price to pay for the advantages bestowed by a patriarchy, not that we have a patriarchy in the West. But when we did you had a wife who stays at home, keeps the house clean, looks after your children, does the shopping, does the washing, and cannot divorce you unless you beat or cheat on her. That's more than enough compensation for, say, not being able to blubber at a funeral. You can argue that such a system is unethical, but from a male self-interest perspective a patriarchy is clearly advantageous.

As for incels, I don't see how wallowing in self pity does them any good. It's doesn't make them any more appealing and it doesn't them any happier. You can't hold your lack of sex appeal against the other people. They need to understand that a man needs some strength of personality to be appealing. I think they chalk all their failures up to their appearance.

Yeah, I love the advantages of...

There are few advantages to anyone outside of cis-het men. I'm virtually seen as just property under this system. I'm automatically sexaulized and objectified just for my gender. We do still have the patriarchy in the West. Also, while the patriarchy does of course have plenty of advantages for men, it also still has its downsides. Men are forced to suppress their emotions and vulnerabilities, men are forced to be hypersexual, men not being allowed to show any interest in things that are considered to be feminine, etc. The patriarchy, in regards to how it impacts men, is like a pill that's very effective at what's meant to do but that has a long list of side effects.

Incels exist as a result those expectations and structures place. The self-pity they feel comes from frustration over not being able to meet those gender expectations and the entitlement they feel towards sex and relationships comes from the fact that women's bodies and sexualities are treated as things that men are entitled to.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Go to niceguys on Reddit. It's comedy

 

[LXXCH]

Incels and "nice guys" are just misogynistic, but tbh they're indifferent to me. I consider myself to be a misandrist, based on my experiences with men I believe men are disgusting and somewhat animalistic but I won't be going into that on here.

I will say tho, I don't hate all men. To me, placing blame on a whole entire group of people is stupid. Yet when it comes to incels, they tend to project their hatred onto all women instead of fixing their own problems themselves. That to me is what makes them more annoying than anything else really.