Old people selfish

[Susannah]

I wonder sometimes.

I wonder sometimes.

Was a bit quick with the posting. I'm just wondering if you become more selfish with age, in general? There are of course exceptions.

I notice that my parents barely care about me and my life. Now it is part of the story that my mother is nearing the end, and my father is demented. Both are very demanding to deal with. But they have been for the last 10 years. It may be that I am too kind, and have given them too much time, help and attention.

I also notice it in a work context. Elderly (70+) demand top service. It takes a lot to satisfy their demands. I am asked to do everything from moving bookshelves to waiting on the job until they have been to the store. They expect me to be absolutely precise. Which is not always so easy because I depend on how much traffic there is on the roads, e.g. What it looks like at their place, where their internet modem is. Which TV package they want, etc.

I remember when I was in my teens. Then it was us young people who didn't respect the elderly. Now it seems like it's the other way around.

 

[disillusion]

Their cognitive function decrease as brain deteriorates so they definitively become childish. Also they dont have much patience or consideration anymore as they are too old to care and not much energy anyway

 

[FoxtrotEternal]

I'm astonished at the blatant ageism you have displayed. Degrees of selfishness are entirely subjective, and your assertion otherwise is worrying and of great concern to many human rights endeavors, the WHO and the UN. To assert that any arbitrary grouping of people behaves a certain way because they belong to that group is inherently discriminatory and illogical. People who espouse beliefs such as yours are why I will not live until 30. The willingness to self-segregate by birth year and assert that we are unquestionably and fundamentally different is not logically congruent and reminiscent of ableism, racism, sexism, and countless other forms of discrimination. I am ashamed to be a part of this community. Several other individuals have espoused such assertions on this website. Some have devalued the life of an individual due to their age. Again, many have used that reasoning to justify countless atrocities, including genocide and forced sterilization of groups deemed "inferior."
Your experiences do not trump objective facts. In-group versus out-group behavior has existed since entities could fractionate into groups. As a result, any group can disrespect the other. Ageism is a tremendous issue plaguing global society. The US is blatantly and highly ageist towards all middle-aged and older adults. However, young adults and youth also experience it to a much smaller extent. Many eastern countries are routinely much more ageist against the youth and young adults. That does not provide a logically congruent justification for your discrimination and nonsensical assertions. One can express their frustrations with discriminatory claims.

Their cognitive function decrease as brain deteriorates so they definitively become childish. Also they dont have much patience or consideration anymore as they are too old to care and not much energy anyway

"Too old to care." Really? That is your conclusion? Cognitive function throughout the lifespan is HIGHLY individually dependent. To assert, "Also they dont have much patience or consideration anymore as they are too old to care and not much energy anyway," is idiotic and illogical. Your conclusions have been used in modern attempts to justify legal discrimination. This community is not what I expected. Your willingness to express such a nonsensical and discriminatory belief proves that even amongst those hoping to CTB, discrimination, illogical assertions, and hate are thriving.

 

[Susannah]

I'm astonished at the blatant ageism you have displayed. Degrees of selfishness are entirely subjective, and your assertion otherwise is worrying and of great concern to many human rights endeavors, the WHO and the UN. To assert that any arbitrary grouping of people behaves a certain way because they belong to that group is inherently discriminatory and illogical. People who espouse beliefs such as yours are why I will not live until 30. The willingness to self-segregate by birth year and assert that we are unquestionably and fundamentally different is not logically congruent and reminiscent of ableism, racism, sexism, and countless other forms of discrimination. I am ashamed to be a part of this community. Several other individuals have espoused such assertions on this website. Some have devalued the life of an individual due to their age. Again, many have used that reasoning to justify countless atrocities, including genocide and forced sterilization of groups deemed "inferior."
Your experiences do not trump objective facts. In-group versus out-group behavior has existed since entities could fractionate into groups. As a result, any group can disrespect the other. Ageism is a tremendous issue plaguing global society. The US is blatantly and highly ageist towards all middle-aged and older adults. However, young adults and youth also experience it to a much smaller extent. Many eastern countries are routinely much more ageist against the youth and young adults. That does not provide a logically congruent justification for your discrimination and nonsensical assertions. One can express their frustrations with discriminatory claims.

"Too old to care." Really? That is your conclusion? Cognitive function throughout the lifespan is HIGHLY individually dependent. To assert, "Also they dont have much patience or consideration anymore as they are too old to care and not much energy anyway," is idiotic and illogical. Your conclusions have been used in modern attempts to justify legal discrimination. This community is not what I expected. Your willingness to express such a nonsensical and discriminatory belief proves that even amongst those hoping to CTB, discrimination, illogical assertions, and hate are thriving.

Then it must me getting too old then. I'm 46y, so I'm middle- aged. I live in Norway, and this tiny country consists mainly of older people, and we have a huge problem with elderly care.

Life expectancy in Norway is 84 years. 16 percent of the population is over 64 years of age.

I really fear getting older. I fear the future as well. Good to see that you engage yourself in discrimination of all groups.

 

[FoxtrotEternal]

Then it must me getting too old then. I'm 46y, so I'm middle- aged. I live in Norway, and this tiny country consists mainly of older people, and we have a huge problem with elderly care.

Life expectancy in Norway is 84 years. 16 percent of the population is over 64 years of age.

I really fear getting older. I fear the future as well. Good to see that you engage yourself in discrimination of all groups.

Too old is subjective, so I would try not to let the concerns and assertions of others weigh too heavily. You are you. That is all that concerns me and the only information I find relevant.
Caring for older adults is also a worrying and often seemingly overlooked issue in the US. The lockdowns during 2020 and the ensuing chaos resulted in me observing ageist comments devaluing the lives of older adults and witnessing how many were willing to sacrifice them to attempt a return to normal.
I also fear the aging process, but not for the same reasons as many. I was born with achalasia, and it remained undiagnosed until a few years ago when I turned 20. The delayed diagnosis resulted in a negative prognosis in the long term. It also significantly increases my risk for esophageal cancer, so yeah, there's that. In conjunction with ageism and countless other forms of discrimination and human rights abuses, I'm also greatly concerned about the future. I fear my ability to exert any noticeable amount of influence is limited, primarily by time.

 

[Pluto]

Perhaps the selfishness relates not to age but to the way individuals were raised way back in childhood. 'Back in my day' the old people of the time had all pulled together through the horrors of 2 world wars and a Great Depression. They were anything but selfish. On average, the same could not be said for their hedonistic offspring, and society has since drifted further into narcissism in the social media age as if there could be no other way for people to relate to one another.

Issues and ethics relating to advanced age are complicated. I have my own bias. The last few years of my grandmother's life were dreadful. She could barely move, could no longer recognise loved ones and was constantly dazed and confused. All I can say is that people are welcome to indulge in political debates about whether legalising euthanasia for the elderly risks dehumanising senior citizens or whatever. But what happened to my grandmother is not happening to me. Period.

 

[whywere]

For me, at the ripe old age of 66. almost 67, I firmly believe that:

1) sometimes it is age related issues but not everyone gets these issues and then if they do it is to a varying degree.

2) It is also how and when they were raised. Me? I grew up ultra-poor and in school and I was discriminated very harshly because of being poor. That shaped how I am now. I treat everyone the way I would want to be treated and love helping folks out.

3) one of the marks of a great person is that they NEVER EVER forget where they came from. I have seen so, so many snotty people, older and younger who came into money, and it went straight to their head, so horrible.

4) older folks sometimes have attitude or health/memory/metal issues, BUT one should never lump all older together and also remember that everyone gets older and also, I have seen younger people, especially ones who have had a golden spoon in their mouth from day one act and behave worse than any older person ever.

Walter

 

[lionetta12]

Then it must me getting too old then. I'm 46y, so I'm middle- aged. I live in Norway, and this tiny country consists mainly of older people, and we have a huge problem with elderly care.

Life expectancy in Norway is 84 years. 16 percent of the population is over 64 years of age.

I really fear getting older. I fear the future as well. Good to see that you engage yourself in discrimination of all groups.

I'm also norwegian, did you see the new Brennpunkt documentary about the elder care? Horrible. Gave me my final push to join the right to die organization here for the terminally ill and elderly. I hate how they get treated. But I also agree with your statement, especially in Norway. I've lived abroad in various countries and the elderly there are more humble, respectful and kind. The elders I know in Norway are entitled, spoiled and selfish generally, both people in and outside of my family. It's completely different in Sweden for example. My mom used to work in elder care as a nurse at some point and she'd tell me horror stories about some of the patients and with how demanding and demeaning they were to her. I think overall it's a cultural issue here. Once my parents got old, which was when I was still a child as they had me at old age, they stopped caring about me and haven't given a shit about me ever since.

 

[Susannah]

I'm also norwegian, did you see the new Brennpunkt documentary about the elder care? Horrible. Gave me my final push to join the right to die organization here for the terminally ill and elderly. I hate how they get treated. But I also agree with your statement, especially in Norway. I've lived abroad in various countries and the elderly there are more humble, respectful and kind. The elders I know in Norway are entitled, spoiled and selfish generally, both people in and outside of my family. It's completely different in Sweden for example. My mom used to work in elder care as a nurse at some point and she'd tell me horror stories about some of the patients and with how demanding and demeaning they were to her. I think overall it's a cultural issue here. Once my parents got old, which was when I was still a child as they had me at old age, they stopped caring about me and haven't given a shit about me ever since.

Yeah, I saw the documentary, absolutely terrible. I've been living in other countries as well, over the years, and I agree that many countries have a different cultural issue for taking care of the elder. I've just always thought that our rich country had a welfare plan ready for us when we retire. I guess I was wrong.

Lots of loveS

 

[lionetta12]

Yeah, I saw the documentary, absolutely terrible. I've been living in other countries as well, over the years, and I agree that many countries have a different cultural issue for taking care of the elder. I've just always thought that our rich country had a welfare plan ready for us when we retire. I guess I was wrong.

Lots of loveS

I don't ever want to get demensia or get above ages of 65-70ish, because it doesn't seem to be a worthy life to live at that point, not to me personally and I'd love to have the right to die then. It all depends on the person and health situation of course. My great grandmother was well and healthy until age 90, but most others in my family can barely walk on their own, act rationally or think once they reach around age 70. I want the right to die if I ever get to a point where I can't think straight or even move myself around to get to the toilet on my own, I was wheelchair bound for a year so I know how being limited and dependant on others physically is and it's a situation I refuse to ever re-live, it was so painful, abusive and traumatizing. It just seems like a horrible empty existance at that point and that I would have finished life then anyway at that age.

 

[FoxtrotEternal]

Perhaps the selfishness relates not to age but to the way individuals were raised way back in childhood. 'Back in my day' the old people of the time had all pulled together through the horrors of 2 world wars and a Great Depression. They were anything but selfish. On average, the same could not be said for their hedonistic offspring, and society has since drifted further into narcissism in the social media age as if there could be no other way for people to relate to one another.

Issues and ethics relating to advanced age are complicated. I have my own bias. The last few years of my grandmother's life were dreadful. She could barely move, could no longer recognise loved ones and was constantly dazed and confused. All I can say is that people are welcome to indulge in political debates about whether legalising euthanasia for the elderly risks dehumanising senior citizens or whatever. But what happened to my grandmother is not happening to me. Period.

Without acquiring the necessary evidence, we can't logically assert that my generation or predecessors were more selfish or hedonistic. That assertion is discriminatory. Ex: "On average, the same could not be said about their hedonistic offspring." --> "On average, X could not be said about Y." Plug in whatever terminology you desire, but I find it easy to see the correlations with racist ideologies and thought. (This is not implying that you are racist.)
Your belief that society (the implication being young adults/ the youth, i.e., me and my peers) is more narcissistic and hedonistic is just that, a belief that appears to be rooted in ageism. How individuals relate to one another is up to them. To judge them based on your moral compass and assert that their behavior is negative is nothing more than a subjective opinion.
If we speak of selfishness, it is essential to note that altruism is objectively self-serving in some capacity, meaning it is inherently selfish. We do not know if truly altruistic behavior is possible. The threshold for acceptable selfishness is entirely arbitrary. If we are to legalize euthanasia for older adults, it would be logically incongruent and discriminatory to bar any competent individual from making that decision for themselves. However, having the power to decide for another, independent of their ability and regardless of age, allows murder, whether legal or otherwise, independent of what is deemed normative behavior.
Your grandmother's final years are not a universal experience, and believing so (if you do) ties directly into ageism. Whether you want to allow yourself the opportunity to have a chance to experience such is your decision.

 

[jodes2]

I'm astonished at the blatant ageism you have displayed. Degrees of selfishness are entirely subjective, and your assertion otherwise is worrying and of great concern to many human rights endeavors, the WHO and the UN. To assert that any arbitrary grouping of people behaves a certain way because they belong to that group is inherently discriminatory and illogical. People who espouse beliefs such as yours are why I will not live until 30. The willingness to self-segregate by birth year and assert that we are unquestionably and fundamentally different is not logically congruent and reminiscent of ableism, racism, sexism, and countless other forms of discrimination. I am ashamed to be a part of this community. Several other individuals have espoused such assertions on this website. Some have devalued the life of an individual due to their age. Again, many have used that reasoning to justify countless atrocities, including genocide and forced sterilization of groups deemed "inferior."
Your experiences do not trump objective facts. In-group versus out-group behavior has existed since entities could fractionate into groups. As a result, any group can disrespect the other. Ageism is a tremendous issue plaguing global society. The US is blatantly and highly ageist towards all middle-aged and older adults. However, young adults and youth also experience it to a much smaller extent. Many eastern countries are routinely much more ageist against the youth and young adults. That does not provide a logically congruent justification for your discrimination and nonsensical assertions. One can express their frustrations with discriminatory claims.

"Too old to care." Really? That is your conclusion? Cognitive function throughout the lifespan is HIGHLY individually dependent. To assert, "Also they dont have much patience or consideration anymore as they are too old to care and not much energy anyway," is idiotic and illogical. Your conclusions have been used in modern attempts to justify legal discrimination. This community is not what I expected. Your willingness to express such a nonsensical and discriminatory belief proves that even amongst those hoping to CTB, discrimination, illogical assertions, and hate are thriving.

Hey. Don't label the whole community as bad. I'd count that as a form of discrimination too

 

[FoxtrotEternal]

For me, at the ripe old age of 66. almost 67, I firmly believe that:

1) sometimes it is age related issues but not everyone gets these issues and then if they do it is to a varying degree.

2) It is also how and when they were raised. Me? I grew up ultra-poor and in school and I was discriminated very harshly because of being poor. That shaped how I am now. I treat everyone the way I would want to be treated and love helping folks out.

3) one of the marks of a great person is that they NEVER EVER forget where they came from. I have seen so, so many snotty people, older and younger who came into money, and it went straight to their head, so horrible.

4) older folks sometimes have attitude or health/memory/metal issues, BUT one should never lump all older together and also remember that everyone gets older and also, I have seen younger people, especially ones who have had a golden spoon in their mouth from day one act and behave worse than any older person ever.

Walter

1. It is an objective and verifiable scientific fact that age-related changes occur at vastly different ages, and the extent to which they affect an individual is entirely individually dependent. (In short, yes, you are correct)
2. Parental methods and childhood experiences are only some of the factors determining behavioral outcomes. It ultimately lies with the individual and their decisions, which can supersede previously experienced "positive" or "negative" environments.
3. The "mark of a great person" is an entirely subjective metric. Remembering or forgetting origins is not a determinant for whether an individual may be perceived as "good" in all instances where it is not an arbitrary requirement.
4. Objectively correct. Some individuals may reach a point where they can be diagnosed with a medical condition, but asserting that all individuals surpassing an arbitrarily set age threshold are cognitively inept and incapable is incorrect and discriminatory. It is crucial to know that "good" and "bad" are subjective, but by the societal standards shared by many, age is not a causal determinant of an individual's ability to be either.

Hey. Don't label the whole community as bad. I'd count that as a form of discrimination too

At no point did I blame the entire community. Perhaps you should cautiously reread my entry.

I'm also norwegian, did you see the new Brennpunkt documentary about the elder care? Horrible. Gave me my final push to join the right to die organization here for the terminally ill and elderly. I hate how they get treated. But I also agree with your statement, especially in Norway. I've lived abroad in various countries and the elderly there are more humble, respectful and kind. The elders I know in Norway are entitled, spoiled and selfish generally, both people in and outside of my family. It's completely different in Sweden for example. My mom used to work in elder care as a nurse at some point and she'd tell me horror stories about some of the patients and with how demanding and demeaning they were to her. I think overall it's a cultural issue here. Once my parents got old, which was when I was still a child as they had me at old age, they stopped caring about me and haven't given a shit about me ever since.

Whether it was a cultural issue or not, espousing the idea that all older Norwegian adults are selfish is inherently discriminatory. Behavioral variations exist within all locations, regardless of their degree of permeation in a single population.

I don't ever want to get demensia or get above ages of 65-70ish, because it doesn't seem to be a worthy life to live at that point, not to me personally and I'd love to have the right to die then. It all depends on the person and health situation of course. My great grandmother was well and healthy until age 90, but most others in my family can barely walk on their own, act rationally or think once they reach around age 70. I want the right to die if I ever get to a point where I can't think straight or even move myself around to get to the toilet on my own, I was wheelchair bound for a year so I know how being limited and dependant on others physically is and it's a situation I refuse to ever re-live, it was so painful, abusive and traumatizing. It just seems like a horrible empty existance at that point and that I would have finished life then anyway at that age.

I hope you aren't implying that life isn't worth living after age 65. I've had to counter individuals who espouse that assertion. Value is subjective. Arbitrarily assigning different values to the lives of an individual has been a prominent (if not primary) component in atrocities and genocide throughout history. Also, the youngest dementia diagnosis belongs to a 23-year-old in the UK.

 

[Pluto]

I take it you enjoy arguing with everyone on the internet by twisting their words and taking offense on behalf of others. This quest for moral supremacy is driven by narcissism. I don't recommend it unless you enjoy causing and experiencing needless suffering.

EDIT: This reply was cattier than I intended. But the point remains; seeing such combativeness amidst a relatively peaceful community brings an opportunity to turn your attention towards whatever internal shadow is being projected outwards or covered up by projecting a persona of high ground.

 

[FoxtrotEternal]

I take it you enjoy arguing with everyone on the internet by twisting their words and taking offense on behalf of others. This quest for moral supremacy is driven by narcissism. I don't recommend it unless you enjoy causing and experiencing needless suffering.

EDIT: This reply was cattier than I intended. But the point remains; seeing such combativeness amidst a relatively peaceful community brings an opportunity to turn your attention towards whatever internal shadow is being projected outwards or covered up by projecting a persona of high ground.

I do not enjoy arguing. It is a fallacious and nonsensical claim that I am narcissistic or twisting the words of others in an apparent attempt to sway a community willing to allow discrimination according to bias. There is no quest for moral supremacy because morality is relative, and your suggestion that my response requires a quest to attain it is an unfounded attempt to portray me as incorrect while attempting to feel superior. This tactic is prevalent in political spheres but does not lend credence to your assertions.
You imply that taking offense on behalf of others is objectionable and that I am offended for others. No. Another incorrect assertion. The endeavor for equality and equal treatment requires that all individuals receive protection from stereotyping and discrimination. Are you saying that discrimination is okay towards any arbitrarily selected group or that one cannot defend others who are being attacked without taking offense? If so, countless atrocities would have never been stopped. An individual's guidelines can be followed independently of emotional responses.

I take it you enjoy arguing with everyone on the internet by twisting their words and taking offense on behalf of others. This quest for moral supremacy is driven by narcissism. I don't recommend it unless you enjoy causing and experiencing needless suffering.

EDIT: This reply was cattier than I intended. But the point remains; seeing such combativeness amidst a relatively peaceful community brings an opportunity to turn your attention towards whatever internal shadow is being projected outwards or covered up by projecting a persona of high ground.

The implication that I am taking offense because of an "internal shadow" is baseless and asinine. You act as if I only espouse equality in private due to dissociative anonymity. Try again. I run a foundation targeting ableism and ageism and have been striving for equality since 2020. If this community is willing to allow discrimination and hate speech, I will not support it in any capacity and will advise others to do the same.

 

[disillusion]

I'm astonished at the blatant ageism you have displayed. Degrees of selfishness are entirely subjective, and your assertion otherwise is worrying and of great concern to many human rights endeavors, the WHO and the UN. To assert that any arbitrary grouping of people behaves a certain way because they belong to that group is inherently discriminatory and illogical. People who espouse beliefs such as yours are why I will not live until 30. The willingness to self-segregate by birth year and assert that we are unquestionably and fundamentally different is not logically congruent and reminiscent of ableism, racism, sexism, and countless other forms of discrimination. I am ashamed to be a part of this community. Several other individuals have espoused such assertions on this website. Some have devalued the life of an individual due to their age. Again, many have used that reasoning to justify countless atrocities, including genocide and forced sterilization of groups deemed "inferior."
Your experiences do not trump objective facts. In-group versus out-group behavior has existed since entities could fractionate into groups. As a result, any group can disrespect the other. Ageism is a tremendous issue plaguing global society. The US is blatantly and highly ageist towards all middle-aged and older adults. However, young adults and youth also experience it to a much smaller extent. Many eastern countries are routinely much more ageist against the youth and young adults. That does not provide a logically congruent justification for your discrimination and nonsensical assertions. One can express their frustrations with discriminatory claims.

"Too old to care." Really? That is your conclusion? Cognitive function throughout the lifespan is HIGHLY individually dependent. To assert, "Also they dont have much patience or consideration anymore as they are too old to care and not much energy anyway," is idiotic and illogical. Your conclusions have been used in modern attempts to justify legal discrimination. This community is not what I expected. Your willingness to express such a nonsensical and discriminatory belief proves that even amongst those hoping to CTB, discrimination, illogical assertions, and hate are thriving.

I def not want to be involved in argument. I only posted to tell op that old people are not necessarily selfish. I am not native speaker so i must not have chosen right words. I am sorry if i have offended any of you. I am mid40 and I am getting old too and yes i do consider myself quiet old as I am going to be 50,60 soon. My parents both are mid70s. I hang out with other old people so i also have my own opinion. I have nothing against old people. In fact i love older People more than People my age or younger but then you might accuse I am ageist again? Maybe you might be projecting but i do not appreciate you saying idiotic blah blah. No i dont have conclusions. I was merely sharing my observation and was quoting other old People say or what we koreans( old and young) commonly saying. Too old to care is actually a good thing. I dont really care much either as i get old compared to when i was in my 20s.

We all have different opinions. Please chilax and
If I am truly idiotic you shouldn't worry about my opinion but

If you think I am the one who is causing othets ctb Or discrimination, know this that your harsh tongue can cut others deeper. I myself have experienced so much discrimination and u dont come across as kindest person.

I never intend to say any of hate or being lllogical or discriminate. I myself experience damn discrimination always as woman or as a person or color
And when i was young because i was young now because I am old. Bruh. Thats why i dont want to exist Okay ? Now just block me already gosh

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

I'm astonished at the blatant ageism you have displayed. Degrees of selfishness are entirely subjective, and your assertion otherwise is worrying and of great concern to many human rights endeavors, the WHO and the UN. To assert that any arbitrary grouping of people behaves a certain way because they belong to that group is inherently discriminatory and illogical. People who espouse beliefs such as yours are why I will not live until 30. The willingness to self-segregate by birth year and assert that we are unquestionably and fundamentally different is not logically congruent and reminiscent of ableism, racism, sexism, and countless other forms of discrimination. I am ashamed to be a part of this community. Several other individuals have espoused such assertions on this website. Some have devalued the life of an individual due to their age. Again, many have used that reasoning to justify countless atrocities, including genocide and forced sterilization of groups deemed "inferior."
Your experiences do not trump objective facts. In-group versus out-group behavior has existed since entities could fractionate into groups. As a result, any group can disrespect the other. Ageism is a tremendous issue plaguing global society. The US is blatantly and highly ageist towards all middle-aged and older adults. However, young adults and youth also experience it to a much smaller extent. Many eastern countries are routinely much more ageist against the youth and young adults. That does not provide a logically congruent justification for your discrimination and nonsensical assertions. One can express their frustrations with discriminatory claims.

"Too old to care." Really? That is your conclusion? Cognitive function throughout the lifespan is HIGHLY individually dependent. To assert, "Also they dont have much patience or consideration anymore as they are too old to care and not much energy anyway," is idiotic and illogical. Your conclusions have been used in modern attempts to justify legal discrimination. This community is not what I expected. Your willingness to express such a nonsensical and discriminatory belief proves that even amongst those hoping to CTB, discrimination, illogical assertions, and hate are thriving.