Nonexistence by definition is not a thing. You won't spend an eternity in nothingness because there won't be you. For anyone there is only life.

[Callie Arcale]

I've always said that the one thing that bothers me most about death is that I won't be able to enjoy the end of my pain and say to myself: "Finally, Callie, no more illness, you are free!"

Nice to see Epicurus agrees with me. (I mean the other way around, of course he he he)

The weakest and most unreliable source of evidence.

^^^ As Neil DeGrasse Tyson always loves to point out whenever someone asks him about alien encounters. His solution to the conundrum is brilliant: Next time an alien abducts you, take an ash tray when they're not looking Now that would be a nice piece of evidence.

 

[Lost Magic]

I've always said that the one thing that bothers me most about death is that I won't be able to enjoy the end of my pain and say to myself: "Finally, Callie, no more illness, you are free!"

Nice to see Epicurus agrees with me. (I mean the other way around, of course he he he)


^^^ As Neil DeGrasse Tyson always loves to point out whenever someone asks him about alien encounters. His solution to the conundrum is brilliant: Next time an alien abducts you, take an ash tray when they're not looking Now that would be a nice piece of evidence.

Actually Neil deGrasse Tyson - like Elon Musk - says it's hard to argue that we aren't living in a simulation. So the jokes on you pal.

 

[Untetheredwill]

Who created this marvellous intricate brain then? You wanna see how deep the rabbit hole goes? I see what pill you swallowed, but that's okay. Society likes people to stay in the box.

Your argument for a creator can fall apart in a few seconds. Spend a day replacing God with any word and nothing in your current reality will change.

 

[Lost Magic]

Your argument for a creator can fall apart in a few seconds. Spend a day replacing God with any word and nothing in your current reality will change.

Who mentioned anything about God my friend? I am agnostic. I ask questions, so try again. All I am saying is that it's impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist or not. Do you have all the answers or no?

 

[Mocon33]

Nonexistence by definition is not a thing. You won't spend an eternity in nothingness because there won't be you. For anyone there is only life.

This is such a good way of putting it. It applies to all people who are afraid of death, including religious people who feel the need to imagine an afterlife. In the same way, was it bad before you were born? Of course not, after you die it will be the same way.

 

[just_wanna_die]

As Neil DeGrasse Tyson always loves to point out whenever someone asks him about alien encounters. His solution to the conundrum is brilliant: Next time an alien abducts you, take an ash tray when they're not looking Now that would be a nice piece of evidence.

"The great thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not. It's not a question of what your beliefs are. When the heart is no longer able to pump enough oxygen to the brain, the brain will stop working. When the brain stops working, every one of your thoughts, every memory, every aspect of your personality will cease to exist. There is absolutely zero evidence that any aspect of who you are will survive your death, and no reason to think that your consciousness can survive independently of your (soon to be rotting or cremated) brain, since consciousness itself seems to be purely a product of brain function. [try to envision consciousness as a process rather than as an object. Consciousness is a process of the brain.] You will have no awareness of oblivion; you'll have no awareness of anything once you're dead, because 'you' no longer exist in anything other than corpse form."
~Neil de Grasse Tyson, astrophysicist

 

[D&D]

In recent years I have read or watched lectures about various, including opposing, points of views, schools of thought, and findings regarding conciseness and whether or not it is purely product of brain function. Some of the credible material can be found on this site: https://www.closertotruth.com/ - there are many others.

In the end I have arrived to the conclusion that there are just about as many credible thinkers and researches in various disciplines, from neuro science to philosophy and theology that argue in favor of conciseness being purely product of brain function, as they are against. Both groups come up with sound, well-reasoned and evidence supported arguments. In more recent times, as scientific methods advance further, a few are inclined to state what seems obvious - we (humans) simply do not know. What exactly conciseness is or what, if anything, happens to it after death. I tend to agree. Despite all the phenomenal changes humanity has seen, despite space explorations, etc. - the same fundamental question that scared humans and their 'shamans' probably since they first knew themselves - remain unanswered. Surely, infinitely more researched, probed and examined, but ultimately unanswered. There is a beauty in it - the last remaining mystery.

 

[rationaltake]

Like Epicurus said:

"Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If Death is, then I am not.
Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?"

I love this quote. Thanks

 

[milly]

Like Epicurus said:

"Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If Death is, then I am not.
Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?"

Is it fair that death is permanent while life is temporary? (yes I know this is SS)

I've always said that the one thing that bothers me most about death is that I won't be able to enjoy the end of my pain and say to myself: "Finally, Callie, no more illness, you are free!"

Nice to see Epicurus agrees with me. (I mean the other way around, of course he he he)


^^^ As Neil DeGrasse Tyson always loves to point out whenever someone asks him about alien encounters. His solution to the conundrum is brilliant: Next time an alien abducts you, take an ash tray when they're not looking Now that would be a nice piece of evidence.

I think you're brilliant and charming. @Callie Arcale

 

[Mocon33]

In recent years I have read or watched lectures about various, including opposing, points of views, schools of thought, and findings regarding conciseness and whether or not it is purely product of brain function. Some of the credible material can be found on this site: https://www.closertotruth.com/ - there are many others.

In the end I have arrived to the conclusion that there are just about as many credible thinkers and researches in various disciplines, from neuro science to philosophy and theology that argue in favor of conciseness being purely product of brain function, as they are against. Both groups come up with sound, well-reasoned and evidence supported arguments. In more recent times, as scientific methods advance further, a few are inclined to state what seems obvious - we (humans) simply do not know. What exactly conciseness is or what, if anything, happens to it after death. I tend to agree. Despite all the phenomenal changes humanity has seen, despite space explorations, etc. - the same fundamental question that scared humans and their 'shamans' probably since they first knew themselves - remain unanswered. Surely, infinitely more researched, probed and examined, but ultimately unanswered. There is a beauty in it - the last remaining mystery.

You can think of the mind as software, running on hardware which is the brain. The problem with the idea that the mind can exist without the brain is, where is the hardware? There is none.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Is it fair that death is permanent while life is temporary? (yes I know this is SS)

I think you're brilliant and charming. @Callie Arcale

Death is not permanent not even temporary. Imagine your life is a movie, it has a beginning and an end (birth and death) and a duration. Beginning and end are only points in time. The idea that death is permanent is based of the believe in an eternal life. Enjoy your movie.

Actually Neil deGrasse Tyson - like Elon Musk - says it's hard to argue that we aren't living in a simulation. So the jokes on you pal.

Good point, it´s impossible to argue against solipsism and it makes the complete discussion questionable.

 

[Darkover]

We may not fully understand how consciousness is produced, Consciousness is almost certainly a result of neuron's in our brain/to a much lesser degree our gut. Consciousness doesn't exist in 99% of baryonic matter. It's pretty localized to planet Earth (and probably a handful of other planets in other galaxies) in an immensely massive universe. There's definitely still a lot we don't know about the universe, but there's a lot more scientific evidence indicating life (consciousness) ends when electricity stops running through our neurons because our heart stopped. None of the unknowns in science show any indication in life after death or that consciousness is fundamental in anyway to the universe, thats not to say life could never happen ever again who knows

we're not living in a computer simulation because computers are just maths you need chemicals to experience emotion also we are living in a very slow universe i mean light can only travel 7 times around the earth in 1 second, even if you built a computer that ran on light it still would be painfully slow in simulating even a small number of atoms
The adult human brain weighs about 3 pounds (1,300-1,400 g).
The adult human brain is about 2% of the total body weight.
The average human brain is 140 mm wide. 140,000,000
The average human brain is 167 mm long. 167,000,000
The average human brain is 140 mm height. 140,000,000
1 mm equals 1,000,000nm
140,000,000*167,000,000*140,000,000

3,273,200,000,000,000,000,000,000 nm in the human brain

Drift velocity, the average speed at which electrons travel in a conductor when subjected to an electric field, is about 1mm per second.
It's the electromagnetic wave rippling through the electrons that propagates at close to the speed of light.

calculation shows that the electron is traveling at about 2,200 kilometers per second.
That's less than 1% of the speed of light, but it's fast enough

2,200 kilometers to meters equals 2200000 meters

2200 kilometers to nanometers
2.2e+15
22,000,000,000,000

6,250,000,000,000,000,000 electrons per second for a amp
2,200,000,000,000,000
2,200,000
2,200,000,000*1000
1000 millimeters in 1 meter
2,200,000,000,000,000 * 1,000,000 1 million because 1 nm equal 1 milion
Electrons Can Travel Over 100 Times Faster In Graphene Than In Silicon, Physicists Show
220,000,000,000,000,000 2,200,000,000,000,000*100


If you could travel at the speed of light, you could go around the Earth 7.5 times in one second

300,000,000,000,000,000 nanometers
2,200,000,000,000,000 electron

die size
192 mm²

192,000,000*192,000,000

36,864,000,000,000,000 nm

300,000,000,000,000,000/192,000,000
2,200,000,000,000,000/192,000,000

stright line
lights can travle from one end to the another 1,562,500,000 times per second

electrons can travle from one end to the another 11,458,333 times per second

 

[wanttogetonthebus]

The way i look at it that it is like someone hit the pause button. The last frame will freeze in time and you will only be able to feel again once the play button is pressed again

That's what I've thought too.

 

[rationalis]

Sorry I haven't read the entire thread.

I stopped at the part about energy being neither created or destroyed.

If humans are unique, how are there billions more humans today? If the energy or soul that powers humans is unique and cannot be created, where was the energy when there were 7.9 billion fewer humans? Where is the energy for the next billion net new humans right now?

Sorry if this was already addressed.

 

[little helpers]

You can think of the mind as software, running on hardware which is the brain. The problem with the idea that the mind can exist without the brain is, where is the hardware? There is none.

^ this. absolutely this.

I've always said that, well, I like it that this brain right here conceive thoughts and all that. I like it. but suffering is visceral and somatic, as is then perceived by the brain. the body is a vessel, a medium for consciousness, and whether or not I can mentally identify it as mine, it just *is* mine to preserve or to take. do I need anyone's permission before I temper with what's just my own *medium*? does a guitar string ask around the space of air whether it can transmit there? you simply hear the sound. the sound of vibrations.

I honestly would choose to just let my mind leave this body than kill it, if I can. that is, if they were separable and could exist fully independently and self-sufficiently. I would, if *they* can.

I have no inhuman/superhuman capabilities to just become a cyber being living soley on the internet or whatever. like in Serial Experiment Lain. but even then, I'd be pushed to death when some irl motherfucker refuses my system request for the power cord. or let's say, no more fuel to generate electricity, cyber apocalypse. cuz consciousness requires a medium. and whatever medium it now needs becomes the "body" concept.

say, if it's true we wind up in "heaven" after death (no we won't cuz scripture says suicidees go to "hell"), you better make sure that this "heaven" thing won't collapse, cuz that's your medium now. Earth can (and likely will, soon) become too harsh; scientists have theorized enough about how this universe might end up in stillness, the Big Freeze, which basically is analogous to death; now what if "heaven" dies? what is "eternity" when it's measured in the dynamic, living, passage of time?

true eternity, one so eternal it escapes time, is stillness. and stillness isn't life.

this is NOT to discredit anyone's belief. it's my own ideas. thought experiments. and no thought experiments are "true" anyways. after all like a buddy of mine said, if you gotta live by some kind of dogma, swear by your own indoctrination, all it's gonna do is make you a boring person. and I'd love it if people are to challenge my own thoughts here.

 

[Applebees]

The afterlife is a man made concept. Do you think animals worry about an afterlife?

Animals don't worry about an afterlife because they usually have no self-consciousness. Humans are much more concerned when they become self-conscious. There are reasons to think that there may be an afterlife, such as out-of-body near-death experiences which simply cannot be reconciled with naturalism (if these cases did actually happen and aren't faked).

^ this. absolutely this.

I've always said that, well, I like it that this brain right here conceive thoughts and all that. I like it. but suffering is visceral and somatic, as is then perceived by the brain. the body is a vessel, a medium for consciousness, and whether or not I can mentally identify it as mine, it just *is* mine to preserve or to take. do I need anyone's permission before I temper with what's just my own *medium*? does a guitar string ask around the space of air whether it can transmit there? you simply hear the sound. the sound of vibrations.

I honestly would choose to just let my mind leave this body than kill it, if I can. that is, if they were separable and could exist fully independently and self-sufficiently. I would, if *they* can.

I have no inhuman/superhuman capabilities to just become a cyber being living soley on the internet or whatever. like in Serial Experiment Lain. but even then, I'd be pushed to death when some irl motherfucker refuses my system request for the power cord. or let's say, no more fuel to generate electricity, cyber apocalypse. cuz consciousness requires a medium. and whatever medium it now needs becomes the "body" concept.

say, if it's true we wind up in "heaven" after death (no we won't cuz scripture says suicidees go to "hell"), you better make sure that this "heaven" thing won't collapse, cuz that's your medium now. Earth can (and likely will, soon) become too harsh; scientists have theorized enough about how this universe might end up in stillness, the Big Freeze, which basically is analogous to death; now what if "heaven" dies? what is "eternity" when it's measured in the dynamic, living, passage of time?

true eternity, one so eternal it escapes time, is stillness. and stillness isn't life.

this is NOT to discredit anyone's belief. it's my own ideas. thought experiments. and no thought experiments are "true" anyways. after all like a buddy of mine said, if you gotta live by some kind of dogma, swear by your own indoctrination, all it's gonna do is make you a boring person. and I'd love it if people are to challenge my own thoughts here.

From my knowledge, heaven does not collapse because the people who go there are freely and fully committed to that afterlife. Eternity is not really the same as infinity, since it goes on without an end but never actually reaches infinity. Additionally, I don't believe scriptures (at lease not the one's that I've read) teach that suicides will imply that the person goes to hell, and not all religious people believe in hell in the first place. I personally take the view of annihilationism, but I don't say that to try and convince anyone of religious beliefs on this forum since I know many people who are suicidal have already heard a lot of that.

We may not fully understand how consciousness is produced, Consciousness is almost certainly a result of neuron's in our brain/to a much lesser degree our gut. Consciousness doesn't exist in 99% of baryonic matter. It's pretty localized to planet Earth (and probably a handful of other planets in other galaxies) in an immensely massive universe. There's definitely still a lot we don't know about the universe, but there's a lot more scientific evidence indicating life (consciousness) ends when electricity stops running through our neurons because our heart stopped. None of the unknowns in science show any indication in life after death or that consciousness is fundamental in anyway to the universe, thats not to say life could never happen ever again who knows

we're not living in a computer simulation because computers are just maths you need chemicals to experience emotion also we are living in a very slow universe i mean light can only travel 7 times around the earth in 1 second, even if you built a computer that ran on light it still would be painfully slow in simulating even a small number of atoms
The adult human brain weighs about 3 pounds (1,300-1,400 g).
The adult human brain is about 2% of the total body weight.
The average human brain is 140 mm wide. 140,000,000
The average human brain is 167 mm long. 167,000,000
The average human brain is 140 mm height. 140,000,000
1 mm equals 1,000,000nm
140,000,000*167,000,000*140,000,000

3,273,200,000,000,000,000,000,000 nm in the human brain
View attachment 81798
Drift velocity, the average speed at which electrons travel in a conductor when subjected to an electric field, is about 1mm per second.
It's the electromagnetic wave rippling through the electrons that propagates at close to the speed of light.

calculation shows that the electron is traveling at about 2,200 kilometers per second.
That's less than 1% of the speed of light, but it's fast enough

2,200 kilometers to meters equals 2200000 meters

2200 kilometers to nanometers
2.2e+15
22,000,000,000,000

6,250,000,000,000,000,000 electrons per second for a amp
2,200,000,000,000,000
2,200,000
2,200,000,000*1000
1000 millimeters in 1 meter
2,200,000,000,000,000 * 1,000,000 1 million because 1 nm equal 1 milion
Electrons Can Travel Over 100 Times Faster In Graphene Than In Silicon, Physicists Show
220,000,000,000,000,000 2,200,000,000,000,000*100


If you could travel at the speed of light, you could go around the Earth 7.5 times in one second

300,000,000,000,000,000 nanometers
2,200,000,000,000,000 electron

die size
192 mm²

192,000,000*192,000,000

36,864,000,000,000,000 nm

300,000,000,000,000,000/192,000,000
2,200,000,000,000,000/192,000,000

stright line
lights can travle from one end to the another 1,562,500,000 times per second

electrons can travle from one end to the another 11,458,333 times per second

There is no real scientific data to point to whether is an afterlife or not. I would say that science shouldn't really concern itself with such questions since it's unfalsifiable. That question is left up to philosophy and theology.

Near death experiences are not death so personally I think have absolutely nothing to base any conjecture of an afterlife on. These people were not brain-dead. All this NDE stuff is just hallucinations the brain goes through in a critical period when it's shutting down but not yet actually gone offline. No one has completely gone offline and come back to tell us about it. People with NDEs are usually those whose hearts have stopped but the brain is still functioning and they're resuscitated in time.
DMT, same thing. No one is dying. They are hallucinating. It doesn't matter how powerful the hallucination is, it's still a hallucination produced by a LIVING brain.
Where does the energy go if it can't be destroyed? From my understanding this is pretty basic science. The human body is chemical energy and that energy goes back into the earth as decomposers take care of your body. When you're dead no more oxygen is getting in and so your cells cannot perform their functions as oxygen is their fuel. They just cease to work and then are absorbed by decomposers, just like you absorb food in your gut.

There are certainly cases in which the person is completely brain-dead and has no heartbeat or anything, and when they are resuscitated they describe what happened while they were dead from an out-of-body perspective with complete or near-complete accuracy. There is no way to explain this naturalistically, unless these cases are just completely fabricated.

 

[LeGuitarist]

Like Epicurus said:

"Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If Death is, then I am not.
Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?"

For anyone there exists at best only the cognitive awareness of death, the deaths of others and the anticipation of death, for example for people committing suicide by hanging the agonizing moments when the whole weight of your body is supported by your neck and jaw while possibly gasping for air until you pass out and go to the equivalent of dreamless sleep.

Epicurus didn't find this scary, but I personally think this is scary. For us there is only life.

When Epicurus puts it that way, death doesn't seen scary at all. I'm not scared of death in the slightest, just the moments before death as well as what would happen if I were to fail in my attempt.

I heard something similar about being in the military once from a friend. It went something along these lines:

There's no point in being scared of enlisting into the military
If you enlist, there's a 90% change that you won't get deployed. If you don't get deployed, what is there to fear?
If you get deployed, there's a 90% chance you won't get injured. If you don't get injured, what is there to fear?
If you get injured, there's a 90% chance you'll heal. If you heal, what is there to fear?
If you get injured significantly, you'll be dead. If you're dead, what is there to fear?

The 90% statistic is made up, but basically, the point is, there's a high chance that nothing bad will happen by enlisting into the military.

 

[9BBN]

Non-existence of death is like the non-existence before birth. An approximation would be sleep without dreaming, sleeping unconscious, or general anesthesia.

 

[Shu]

If we come from monkeys explain RH- blood. Let me guess.. a mutation right..

 

[Ta555]

If we come from monkeys explain RH- blood. Let me guess.. a mutation right..

What are you talking about?
And no one ever said we come from monkeys. We share a common ancestor with monkeys. Anyone saying humans come from monkeys doesn't understand the first thing about evolution.

 

[lyles]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change from one form to another. This is the first law of thermodynamics. The human contains an enormous amount of energy so (like it or not) there is a good chance that energy transcends. I myself am agnostic but I do research based on science and spiritual matters as a passing interest. Truth, is we have no control over the afterlife or lack thereof. We will one day though, so until that time comes, we can merely speculate what happens next. Best just to be humble about it.

I think this is a really smart and lovely way to put it!!

 

[walt]

This part of consciousness is what made me more at-ease with the thought of death. The scariest part of dying is usually just the worrying part, not the actual dying part. And once you're dead, you cannot process your death, and you will feel nothing, as you do not exist anymore.

Personally, I do believe we only have one life, but I'm always open to changing my mind down the road if some wacky paper gets peer reviewed and proven. Considering how far science has advanced in just 100 years alone, I wouldn't bet my money against something that insane anymore.