My response to Tantacrul and his video.

[LastFlowers]

Seriously though- HE didn't age restrict his video?!! Surely content creators can do this- right? Surely he knows people are naturally curious? Surely he knows SOME of his viewers are going to be depressed and suicidal themselves. If he believes this place is so dangerous and HE BELIEVES it encourages minors to go ahead and kill themselves- why would he make a video pointing directly to it? Ok- he masked names I presume (haven't watched it.) He seems to think kids are stupid though- they'll find out if they want to! I found this place via the NYT article. (I'm not a minor by the way...)

Someone else said he monetized it too.
Idk if that’s accurate or not, but age restricting your video really kills its ability to get around and get views..so obviously that was more important to him.
He could probably try to justify it by saying he wanted it to reach as many people as possible for “good reasons” but it’s still quite ironic considering so much of his argument rests on minors being influenced.
So yea, you got him there!

 

[Forever Sleep]

I found this website because of that video. In the long term, this will be a good thing for this website; lots of new users, seeing how this forum can be found within 10 minutes or googling from his video.

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry your life circumstances have lead you here.

I'm not so sure it will be a good thing if a lot of these new members are minors who lied during the application process to get admitted. Don't get me wrong- I feel desperately sorry for them- I was suicidal since aged 10. I personally don't think this place should be available to children though.

It can be VERY difficult for forum members to determine someone's age or circumstances unless they are willing to share that information. The poor kid that the video was in relation to, @SpentStardust shared very little and used the forum mainly to talk about his method (which he seemed to have already decided on before coming here.)

I think it's possible all this business will change the forum a lot- maybe for the better- I don't know. I wonder if more people will be reluctant to talk about methods with new members- in case they are a child. Still- the information is available anyway and not just here- so I doubt his video will have changed anything.

If anything- he has just pointed minors in the direction to find this information. I can't believe he didn't think of that. I'm actually kind of horrified to be honest. It's a possibilty that his actions will mean that a minor that otherwise wouldn't have known about this site now does. To me at least- it feels like he's literally throwing them under the bus to prove a point.

I do happen to agree with him that this site ought to be better restricted so that minors can't get on here. This is the internet though- I expect they'll find a way no matter what you do. @SpentStardust was from Italy I believe where I think the site is banned!

Why would you alert people to such a place when it is this easily accessible if your main goal is to 'protect' people from acting on their ideation? Even if people don't engage here- they'll have access to methods. They'll also be alerted to the fact they can find methods online.

I don't know. I'm sure his intentions were good in his mind. He clearly felt deeply moved by @Spentstadust 's death. I just wonder if he considered what his video might do.

 

[Algebrazy]

I also found out about this forum from that video (long time fan of Tantacrul's music software videos), and realized after reading this and other threads that the forum had been misrepresented, and a community I could actually benefit from. I've wondered if the heavy and repeated "don't seek out the website" mantra repeated in the video and his community is driven in part by the knowledge that when people do find the website they will see something quite different to what was presented in the video.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

It can be VERY difficult for forum members to determine someone's age or circumstances unless they are willing to share that information. The poor kid that the video was in relation to, @SpentStardust shared very little and used the forum mainly to talk about his method (which he seemed to have already decided on before coming here.)

In fact as an aside it's my strong feeling he would have gone on to do what he did even if users had actively tried to dissuade him.

People including minors (as was the case in a hospital my friend works at) manage to suicide in psychiatric facilities all the time. Those places have a duty of care to their patients that SS doesn't remotely have (nor is SS trying to make money off an anyone). Even if we grant the assertion that SS failed the boy, I feel that no matter how through our due diligence is (whatever that precisely looks like) there will always be some who slip through. I don't think that necessarily voids the legitimacy of a place like this. If so, why should the system that everyone is always encouraged to "get help" from have their failures treated as just a regrettable inevitability and how can it be squared?

 

[Forever Sleep]

If so, why should the system that everyone is always encouraged to "get help" from have their failures treated as just a regrettable inevitability and how can it be squared?

EXACTLY this! I REALLY wish people would take a good look at this supposed 'help' out there. Just yesterday, someone posted that they WANTED to be sectioned- yet they knew they would be turned down. Another person posted waits in the UK for these crisis lines going on for hours. People in the US have been saying they can't even find a therapist to work with. I'm sure things are just as bad- if not worse everywhere else.

If our societies can't even provide help for the people who are asking for it- seriously? Do they really thinking throwing a few numbers at everyone else is going to solve everything?!! It would be laughable if it weren't actually so tragic.

 

[raumzeit]

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry your life circumstances have lead you here.

Thank you. This site seems like a good place to find likeminded people, without having to deal with the toxic positivity that's present in a lot of other online spaces.

If anything- he has just pointed minors in the direction to find this information.

That's true. I assume there are a lot of minors in his audience to begin with.

Why would you alert people to such a place when it is this easily accessible if your main goal is to 'protect' people from acting on their ideation?

It seems like he thought that anonymising the site and hiding usernames would make it impossible for people to find it. That's ridiculous. All anyone has to do is google "catch the bus forum," and this site pops up.

What ticked me off the most is his attitude towards mental healthcare. If he had ever spent any time in a psychiatric hospital, he wouldn't be so quick to recommend it to people as a viable option. Same with therapy: It's not like you can open up about suicidal ideation to your therapist, or you will end up in a psychiatric institution. Being hospitalised made everything so much worse for me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Thank you. This site seems like a good place to find likeminded people, without having to deal with the toxic positivity that's present in a lot of other online spaces.


That's true. I assume there are a lot of minors in his audience to begin with.



It seems like he thought that anonymising the site and hiding usernames would make it impossible for people to find it. That's ridiculous. All anyone has to do is google "catch the bus forum," and this site pops up.

What ticked me off the most is his attitude towards mental healthcare. If he had ever spend any time in a psychiatric hospital, he wouldn't be so quick to recommend it to people as a viable option. Same with therapy: It's not like you can open up about suicidal ideation to your therapist, or you will end up in a psychiatric institution. Being hospitalised made everything so much worse for me.

Thank you for your response. I hope you like it here. I think it's a unique community. People are friendly and have really interesting ideas. We're all really trying to make sense of our own minds I feel. I agree- it helps to talk openly, rather than be silenced with a whole load of fairytale platitudes.

I think he mentioned that his parents both work in the mental health sector. Maybe that accounts for his bias. I agree though- he seems to have very little concern as to what it's REALLY like out there. Not to hate on the whole profession- some people have been helped. Plenty haven't though. For some here too- it has only made their lives worse.

I'm so sorry for your experience. I hope you can find some sollace here.

 

[absurdtimeline]

I kind of feel sorry for Tantacrul. Even though his inanity eats hours of people's lives. That's incremental death; death by a thousand papercuts.

As someone healed by people in SaSu--I have more to live for than that.

Why do I feel sorry for him? Very briefly: I skimmed the transcript of his video. He says bizarre stuff like cults have "three telltale signs: First, it has a highly peculiar alternative ideology. Which runs contrary to mainstream thinking."

So if cult practices become mainstream in a society, they're no longer cultish? For example, corporations: they're obsessed with secrecy, you're constantly taking orders in a dominance hierarchy, there's zero free speech, carefully manufactured outward-facing appearance, people have to carry out orders that make no sense to them, often there's a charismatic figure, you spend half your waking life there, etc.

This guy lacks reasoning skills. Did the "mental health professionals" in his family carve him into an extreme normie?

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@absurdtimeline ironic since he is moderating all his comments on YT even though he was given a platform on here-well, before he got banned lol. If anyone is coming across as a cult leader brainwashing the ignorant masses and not allowing free speech it's him. I mean it's his channel he can do what he wants, but deleting any comments from genuine depressed people trying to put their side across who actually might be able to give insights and help on how suicidal people feel is no good for anyone. People will keep dying, they'll continue to ignore all of the reasons that drove them to it and blame this site ad nauseum.

 

[absurdtimeline]

Good point @betternever2havbeen! He needs to dehumanize us, even though we're similar to SpentStardust. Because only responsible humans get free speech. We're simultaneously murderous animals & pathetic victims.

But the real cultists aim at species suicide by burning our world and mass murderous wars... and he just goes after us because he's a cultist. With nothing more important to say.

 

[assasmash]

All I'm going to say is this, not just to Tantacrul, but to all the people whom calling members from here monsters:

I hope you all realize how privileged and grateful all of you should be, because you all probably have everything: nice families, supportive friends, perhaps a romantic partner, promising careers... And most importantly above everything else, the knowledge that being yourselves is more than enough to get all the former things.

Let's say you succeed in your goal, and Sanctioned Suicide is brought down, alongside the SuicideWatch subreddit and any other support website five years from now... But some of you begin to develop depression and suicidal thoughts. A betrayal from a friend, a severe health problem, lack of a job and a broken existence, your father/mother passes away... You seek help, but barely avoided being sent into a psychiatric hospital because you got lucky with a kind psychiatrist whom warned you about the system.

Therapy doesn't work, pills doesn't work and your support network is slowly being reduced day after day... And so, you seek the internet for help, but because of the laws you and countless others helped create, you can't even talk about suicide because you'd get into legal trouble, and risk being sent into a psychiatric hospital to end up with thousands of dollars in debt. Plus... Some people are either 100% alone, or very close to reaching that number, not everyone has friends, families or a romantic partner waiting for them, and their support networks are almost zero...

You finally understand. You finally understand how those people felt when pro-lifers destroyed their last bastion of free speech and hope, but regret came far too late... And then think, what did you do to help others, besides judging them and forcing them to exist? If society itself prevented abuse, and taught people the power of empathy, compassion and kindness, then suicides would be very low... But alas, you created your own hell, and can't even ask for help, because you'll get invalidated and ignored like you did to others years ago.

PD:
In this reddit post some people understand our POV, thanks for the post Rain, perhaps someday humanity will understand that people don't deserve to suffer for years or decades, but instead, to be granted peace...

The top comment on that thread is hilarious. They spend a dozen paragraphs yakking and still got everything wrong.

First of all, that particular forum appears to be inspired by or perhaps deliberately copying pro-ED and pro-SH spaces, except that their target audience is primarily male instead of female, and I think that's actually a very important difference.

There is no target audience. There are no targets whatsoever. These forums are not copies of any of that; these were here before and apart from pro-ED/pro-SH communities. Also, they tend to draw a disproportionate amount of females (chicks dig suicidal guys, so my mom keeps telling me (I'm a handsome boy)).

It's a disturbingly effective, hands off way to encourage stochastic terrorism while also profiteering off of those who commit suicide without ever being violent towards anyone else.

This is incredibly silly. People should be making videos about how dangerous Reddit is for grooming everyone (that is what reddit does best, that ever-devouring echo chamber of echo chambers, choking its victims into insanity), as it is far more destructive on average than a forum like this. A few years on reddit was worse for my mental health than 20 years on suicide forums ever were.

This is r/breadtube though, so of course they're just kids themselves. Basically most of that thread is just a bunch of kids who have been only equipped with a "everything i dont like is fascism" toolkit and are trying to map their pet wackjob ideologies onto all they encounter. "This is a clear case of the intersectionality of fascism white supremacy stochastic terrorism incel violence toxic hypermasculinity/ultramegasuperfemininity/they. Indubitably."

I also found out about this forum from that video (long time fan of Tantacrul's music software videos), and realized after reading this and other threads that the forum had been misrepresented, and a community I could actually benefit from. I've wondered if the heavy and repeated "don't seek out the website" mantra repeated in the video and his community is driven in part by the knowledge that when people do find the website they will see something quite different to what was presented in the video.

Especially because he's an obnoxious prick that I think many will seek out info on this themselves. People are apt to find his video, find this forum, and find the Kiwi Farms thread - the one that outs him as a smarmy liar - and come see what the fuss is about. Once people see how abusive he was towards members of this community and how he crafted his video in an intentionally misleading manner they're bound to sour on him.

 

[LastFlowers]

The top comment on that thread is hilarious. They spend a dozen paragraphs yakking and still got everything wrong.

Jesus, did they edit their comment?
I don’t remember it being so long and expansive.
I only remember their ridiculous mental gymnastics with the pro-ED comparison (copying? Lol what) and subsequent vindication of pro-ED and self half forums.
They weren’t the only one responding to that video with pro-ED forum parrallels and praises (I mentioned it in one of my previous comments)..which was so oddly specific to me.
Must be projecting something there.

“It's a lot more likely for actual dieting communities to promote disordered eating than it is for explicitly pro-ED spaces to promote diet culture.”
..This is where the absurdity of their statements first began to numb my brain.
It’s like saying that general fruit forums are more likely to promote one particular fruit even more so than a forum dedicated explicitly to said specific fruit.
Unless of course they are trying to be clever and don’t consider starvation, self-induced vomiting and bingeing to be “diet culture”.

It is so monumentally absurd to suggest that forums that promote suffering (that’s what ED behaviors and self mutilation are, let’s be real) are somehow more palatable and helpful than forums that simply consist of those wanting to put an end to their suffering.

Fuck is wrong with being individualistic…
Is their idea of an ideal “community” some type of monolith?

..I read their comment when I first saw that thread among others outside of this site and I still honestly don’t recall the latter half where they go absolutely off the wall with word vomit straight out of the chronically online Gen Z pseudo-intellectual thesaurus.
Wow.

“Antifascist research[er]” ..huh.

According to this person we are all traveling down a pipeline that leads to Nazism.
I’m not sure there are sane enough words to fight the magnitude of insanity in that assertion. Or most of their other statements.
Especially mystifying reading this as someone who doesn’t fall into their proposed site demographic.

Funny they should use a term like “brainrot”, I think that’s exactly what we are seeing here..
in their comment.
Something has gone terribly wrong.

 

[ge0rge]

ngl i think that redditor talking about the antinatalism to alt right pipeline makes some very salient points. i am no commie, but if it looks like a duck... i mean, a lot of those points apply more to incels dot is than here, but some do overlap very uncomfortably at times.

 

[LastFlowers]

ngl i think that redditor talking about the antinatalism to alt right pipeline makes some very salient points. i am no commie, but if it looks like a duck... i mean, a lot of those points apply more to incels dot is than here, but some do overlap very uncomfortably at times.

I vehemently disagree.
They see what they want to see, the way they want to see it and their word salad is atrocious, it looks like they’ve been waiting for the opportunity to just drop all their preconceived notions, personal contradictions and language onto the face of a topic they have no firm grasp on the heart of.

And as far as antinatalism goes, I don’t see the problem. Most people don’t even try to comprehend what the philosophy actually consists of (not something that should be used as a buzzword).
Obviously if you’re someone who has suffered to the point that your best option becomes an expedited death, odds are you’re going to find it difficult not to give suffering the weight or importance that it deserves…which usually leads to the understanding that such suffering should be reduced and/or eliminated from possibility in the future.

 

[ge0rge]

They see what they want to see, the way they want to see it

but that means absolutely nothing. of course things are going to be filtered through some perspective. you yourself are not free of this. you can't see yourself as an objective arbiter of factual truths. i could come up with a list of posts that fit the description in that screenshot perfectly, and you could dispute that by saying that it's not incel antipsychiatry pro-mortalist drivel but enlightened colorpilled factuality. i think this really does merit an in-depth look of what this forum is like, some kind of qualitative study, but i guess we've all got better things to do. all i meant to say was that some parts of that screenshot absolutely do ring true about the forum.

 

[_Kaira_]

This is my first post since nearly succeeding CTB in July 2021. After being resuscitated unwillingly, access to the internet, as well as many other things were taken from me. So I disappeared. After a while I forgot about the site. Even without SS, my feelings about suicide after almost two years of 'recovery' have not changed, and my situation has worsened despite my attempts of living 'normally' again. That youtube video, along with all this 'exposure', directed me back.

With that being said, the vid itself, along with many of the comments, is full of ignorance. Some of it just...ugh, and I thought the twitter battles about SS were bad. They are, inadvertantly, hurting their cause. Because I 100% gaurentee that none of that virtue signaling is going to help, atleast not me.

 

[letthisbeover]

the video is age restricted but somehow it just got recommended to me lol? i haven't been on here in months, but that video made me angry. i hate pro-lifers sm.
and im not even planning to ctb rn. i do have a will to live as for now and see a future for myself. but knowing this forum exists just makes my life easier. it feels like a place where i can find comfort during my bad days. the topic of ctb is such a taboo in our society, if you mention one single ctb thought, you will be deemed as crazy. that's why we need forums like this.
what he said in the video was shocking, does he really think this is some kind of cult? and why is it a problem that there are users who've been here for years? not everyone can ctb, for many reasons, it's not that easy. i would argue that the toxic positivity pro-life community is a cult in itself.
and its honestly ironic how his video brought me back to this forum.

 

[d3c96524be95]

I also was directed here thanks to Tantacrul's video. I was a regular viewer of his videos on MuseScore which I found quite interesting (as being myself into music and software engineering). I didn't know SaSu at all before, and I wasn't even looking for such community. Yet that video from him was just abysmal. He clearly went out of his field and proved his profound lack of empathy and huge misunderstanding of suicidal ideations, while using a truly paternalistic and falsely empathetic tone.

He did not consider one second that "seeking for help" as he suggests will likely result in imprisonment and torture in psych wards with basically no rights and hope (which btw seemed to be one of the reasons why @SpentStardust was very reluctant to speak out IRL). Why didn't he make a video on that topic instead? That would have been genuinely helpful, and there's so much to say about it. But I guess casting scorn on mentally suffering people helping one another is so much easier. To his eyes, we're such subhumans incapable of clear reasoning that he did not even consider the possibility that people looking up for efficient ways to CTB, coming up with a precise plan and working it through, would almost never take such decision lightly (quite the opposite in fact). His sanist stance probably prevented him from seeing that baseless and moralistic platitudes such as "sometimes all it take is a smile" help no one besides himself and his most credulous viewers at virtue signaling and feeling good only about themselves.

I'm so fed up with this, I feel like I've heard this bs for way too long. People promising and repeating over and over that solutions exist, yet failing to point out just one. Why can't they acknowledge and respect the fact that we might not value our lives the same way they value theirs, and that this is neither right nor wrong? If anything, they're just making me regret I've been too coward to catching that bus so far.

 

[BlackMilk]

I just realized I’ve watched this guys other videos about music theory. Sad to learn he’s really just another video essay automaton out to make a buck off of a tragic and salacious topic. This scumbag essentially made a scare film about a website for people who want the autonomy to decide when their existence ends. I don’t know why a guy who makes subpar DAW tutorials would feel qualified to pass judgment on the way other people chose to live or die. It’s good his video has yet to break one million views. I can’t imagine the shit storm if vox or the nyt made this video…

 

[ThinkTechnical]

I must admit, I only found this place because of Tantacrul's video as well. It at first seemed at the least a little one sided and heavy handed, but... not super egregious I suppose. I really wanted to see the quotes he provided in their original context, and he foolishly provided the original full quotes in their exact form, which when combined with a quick google search using quotation marks to find exactly what you put inbetween them, find you not only this site, and the original thread, but also easily reveals that "Cake" is FuneralCry.

I'm also shocked at just how this place was represented in that video... since joining, I've opened up my true thoughts, poured my heart out in my first thread... and I've gotten nothing but support and help since. I feel more reassured for my future around the situation I'm in than I ever have before... I quite simply love this place despite it's occasional failings.

I really really hope that FuneralCry hasn't been hit with hate PMs or anything due to being singled out and cherrypicked like this. They should be revered for what they've said and done here. I'd ask to marry them if they had any reason to even consider that.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

This is my first post since nearly succeeding CTB in July 2021. After being resuscitated unwillingly, access to the internet, as well as many other things were taken from me. So I disappeared. After a while I forgot about the site. Even without SS, my feelings about suicide after almost two years of 'recovery' have not changed, and my situation has worsened despite my attempts of living 'normally' again. That youtube video, along with all this 'exposure', directed me back.

With that being said, the vid itself, along with many of the comments, is full of ignorance. Some of it just...ugh, and I thought the twitter battles about SS were bad. They are, inadvertantly, hurting their cause. Because I 100% gaurentee that none of that virtue signaling is going to help, atleast not me.

I'm sorry all that happened to you. If only people didn't just assume that forced recovery is going to work, because most people probably fake their way through it until they can attempt again. Welcome back though. It's nice to see the beagle puppy GIF around here once again.

 

[booplesnoot34]

I joined because of Tentacrul’s video. I agreed with the fundamental philosophy here. And yet, he portrayed people like me as monsters and cultists. Bruh I just support complete bodily autonomy. That’s not a bad thing.

 

[Dot]

Pls tll us whch m.h charty u wll b don8tng 2 in ordr 2 celbr8

 

[BloatedGloater]

I found this place thanks to his video. I didn't believe what he was saying since it didn't make logical sense.
I'm sure there are some "malicious actors" on here, but they are a real tiny minority according to what I've seen, and I've been on here daily since I joined.
I was diagnosed with clinical depression at 10 years old and I have my ups and downs still over a decade later, so I really understand the mindset of someone who is at rock bottom. I have been there, many times.
He didn't even try to hide the name of the site, one google search and I got the article with the site name and one more search took me here.
If he was so concerned he would have edited the colorscheme, the abbreviation of the name and tried his actual best to keep the site hidden.
He really cherry picked topics, people and comments to fit his agenda.
From what I've seen in the most recent and/or relevant posts there is ALWAYS someone who says "If you have any doubts, don't go through with it" or something like that. Just because this place is free of helpline number spam comments doesn't mean we as a community (If I'm even allowed to count as a community member already, being so new here) doesn't mean we underestimate the finality and permanence of death and the effect it has on the ones we leave behind. We know, we have tried to get better, we understand the consequences of our actions and we relate to each other based on how we feel, more so than based on our past experiences.
There are also people here trying to get better, and people who aren't suicidal, but just... like to be prepared, like me. But being in a place full of people who understand, and are willing to discuss and chat is refreshing.
I personally am trying to steer clear of giving advice to aid in suicide as I think it might be illegal where I live, and I'm to lazy to actually read the law, so better safe than sorry on that.

 

[breakingpoint]

The comments on that video are so hard to read I had to stop, nobody in the comment section understands how supportive this place can be, you get good and bad people on every social media platform. People encourage others to ctb all the time through brutal online bullying and harassment. I think in some cases, the moderators on here are better at their job.

 

[resolutory]

Man, this sucks. I wanted to avoid seeing how well his video was doing but I just saw now. I'm so disgusted that YouTube has pushed this video so hard, making it one of his most viewed videos. The dude only uploads like once a year, I really don't get how this moronic fricking algorithm rewards such a lazy work-ethic.

And I thought it got age-restricted!? People said that'd prevent it getting recommended but apparently not, sadly.

 

[BrailleTogepi]

The parallels to transphobia are strong with that video.

"Young, suggestible minors are vulnerable to the site" = "Children are too young to be making permanent changes to their bodies"
"How do we know FuneralCry isn't a psychopath???" = "Beware of those crossdressing predators in the bathroom"
*A bunch of confused people who don't take the time to understand this minority, scurrying to outlaw a vital source of support* = *A bunch of confused people who don't take the time to understand this minority, scurrying to outlaw a vital source of support*

It really becomes so much easier to see through his bullshit once you notice the parallels to any other kind of bigotry.


"Ignorance breeds fear. We fear those things we do not understand. If we do not keep that fear in check, that fear in turn will breed hatred - because we hate those things that frighten us. If we do not keep that hatred in check, that hatred in turn will breed destruction. We want to destroy those things that we hate - Why? - Because they cause us to be afraid. But guess what? They may have been harmless and we were just ignorant." -Daryl Davis

Man, this sucks. I wanted to avoid seeing how well his video was doing but I just saw now. I'm so disgusted that YouTube has pushed this video so hard, making it one of his most viewed videos. The dude only uploads like once a year, I really don't get how this moronic fricking algorithm rewards such a lazy work-ethic.

I for one am glad it's getting around. Without that video I and many, many others wouldn't have found this place.

 

[resolutory]

I for one am glad it's getting around. Without that video I and many, many others wouldn't have found this place.

Yeah, I do think it's good that people who feel like they needed a place like this were able to find it due to the video. I just wish the site getting so much publicity had been due to a more neutral and unbiased take, instead of a slanderous hit-piece.

 

[Anon1337]

Man, this sucks. I wanted to avoid seeing how well his video was doing but I just saw now. I'm so disgusted that YouTube has pushed this video so hard, making it one of his most viewed videos. The dude only uploads like once a year, I really don't get how this moronic fricking algorithm rewards such a lazy work-ethic.

And I thought it got age-restricted!? People said that'd prevent it getting recommended but apparently not, sadly.

It appears he appealed the age restriction.

 

[Dot]

It appears he appealed the age restriction.

Clevr mve delbr8tly exposng 1000s & 1000s of undr-ag ppl 2 th/ webste