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bluemistbec

Member
Apr 20, 2020
31
Perhaps you're against suicide for those with mental illnesses because the mainstream thinking is that it simply can't be bad enough to require it. Yes, the system is a huge cause of many people's distress, but let's say tomorrow the system is entirely fixed, and pretty much everybody has their needs met. What would you tell those who *still* want to end it all because of their mental anguish?

No, I definitely understand the suffering can be bad enough because I thought I was suffering so bad that I needed to end my own life. Maybe my distortion is in med school is that we were taught that mental health can be treated if all the right things are done. I was labelled as treatment resistant, meaning nothing would work. After years, I was able to use my connections to get into an psychiatrist who was ultra-specialised with people like me. So he puts me on a last resort medication, but it attacks my heart so he stops it. He then thinks about it and calls a cardioliogst who has done a lot of resarch into this medication. They discuss it, decide to restart the medication and blood tests show that my heart muscle is dying again. He perists, in hope it will all be okay. I maybe he thought that if my heart did give out (which they were closely monitoring to stop happening) that I had been in and out of the psych ward basically continuously for over 3 years. I had no quality of life. I was floridly psychotic and can't even remember much of this period in my life. But somehow it worked and my heart recovered

if a patient had tried absolutely EVERYTHING for their mental health (including the $15,000+ my parents spent on this new stuff) and were still suffering I could understanding being pro suicide.

But I worry a lot of people here haven't been able to try absolutely everything due to genuine reasons. If somehow they could just keep pushing through we might be able to finally get them better with the correct support. This can take time though. I guess I just hold a lot of home for people.
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
2,040
No, I definitely understand the suffering can be bad enough because I thought I was suffering so bad that I needed to end my own life. Maybe my distortion is in med school is that we were taught that mental health can be treated if all the right things are done. I was labelled as treatment resistant, meaning nothing would work. After years, I was able to use my connections to get into an psychiatrist who was ultra-specialised with people like me. So he puts me on a last resort medication, but it attacks my heart so he stops it. He then thinks about it and calls a cardioliogst who has done a lot of resarch into this medication. They discuss it, decide to restart the medication and blood tests show that my heart muscle is dying again. He perists, in hope it will all be okay. I maybe he thought that if my heart did give out (which they were closely monitoring to stop happening) that I had been in and out of the psych ward basically continuously for over 3 years. I had no quality of life. I was floridly psychotic and can't even remember much of this period in my life. But somehow it worked and my heart recovered

if a patient had tried absolutely EVERYTHING for their mental health (including the $15,000+ my parents spent on this new stuff) and were still suffering I could understanding being pro suicide.

But I worry a lot of people here haven't been able to try absolutely everything due to genuine reasons. If somehow they could just keep pushing through we might be able to finally get them better with the correct support. This can take time though. I guess I just hold a lot of home for people.
You are trying to live in an ideal world. The rest of us have to live in the real, imperfect world.
 
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GeminiButter

Member
Apr 26, 2025
80
Thanks for you thoughts so far guys. I really want to understand my thoughts better.

To be clear, I am not against this website. i think it's helpful to have a place where you can openly express how you feel without worrying about someone calling 911. It's kind of the explicit plans I struggle with. I thought maybe we could lock the specific plan posts so only users can see them, but then we can't globally block the mention of SN so I'm not sure if this would even be that helpful.

I understand if someone has terrible physical illness letting them die. Like today I decided against giving a guy with a terrible brain injury a simple needle because I felt it would do more harm than good.

I'm not sure where this prejudice comes, I just feel so against when people CTB because of mental health reasons. Maybe this feeling is because I know it is the system that is the fault and not the person and feel like maybe if it was better we could actually help them and they wouldn't die. I also thought I understood how it felt to want to CTB and have no hope. I thought I'd tried to get all the help I could and thought I had planned it all out and could end my suffering.

I really want to have empathy and understand why I am so against it but also wanted it myself
It has been really interesting to read everyone's thoughts and replies on this thread.

I'm actually someone who probably is closer aligned to you than anyone else who has posted so far, despite the irony of being on a site like this to begin with, and the knowledge and items I've now got in my possession that are directly from knowledge gained on here. I won't share the sources with anyone who asks because I can't in good conscience help give someone the tools to commit suicide, even though I know that makes me a hypocrite, particularly given that one of my sources was from another person. I haven't talked to anyone irl about this site, and I know that even if I was still in hospital, I wouldn't have told anyone about it then either - cos I didn't want them to die. If I'd been able to get my stuff much quicker than I did after joining, might I have CTB by now? There is a very good chance that yes, I might have, although of course I will never know that for sure.

This stuff is complicated and knotty and hard and difficult and there are no easy answers. People will disagree and might change their minds and that is okay. I know that I have changed my mind on some things and am open to my views changing again. It's complicated.
 
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Dot

Dot

Info abt typng styl on prfle.
Sep 26, 2021
3,334
No, I definitely understand the suffering can be bad enough because I thought I was suffering so bad that I needed to end my own life. Maybe my distortion is in med school is that we were taught that mental health can be treated if all the right things are done. I was labelled as treatment resistant, meaning nothing would work. After years, I was able to use my connections to get into an psychiatrist who was ultra-specialised with people like me. So he puts me on a last resort medication, but it attacks my heart so he stops it. He then thinks about it and calls a cardioliogst who has done a lot of resarch into this medication. They discuss it, decide to restart the medication and blood tests show that my heart muscle is dying again. He perists, in hope it will all be okay. I maybe he thought that if my heart did give out (which they were closely monitoring to stop happening) that I had been in and out of the psych ward basically continuously for over 3 years. I had no quality of life. I was floridly psychotic and can't even remember much of this period in my life. But somehow it worked and my heart recovered

if a patient had tried absolutely EVERYTHING for their mental health (including the $15,000+ my parents spent on this new stuff) and were still suffering I could understanding being pro suicide.

But I worry a lot of people here haven't been able to try absolutely everything due to genuine reasons. If somehow they could just keep pushing through we might be able to finally get them better with the correct support. This can take time though. I guess I just hold a lot of home for people.

Thn 100% advoc8 fr gttng ppl tht spport

Tht ws Y slf mde thse recvry rsourcs t/ try 2 gve ppl as mny optns as pssble

Slf usd 2 b an ME/CFS advoc8 t/ imprve educatn & socl spport fr ME/CFS sufffrs bcse thr suicde R8 = 7x th/ natnl avrages

Ur spport ws xceptnl & tht = gr8 - mre ppl shld hve accss t/ tht
 
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anonymous2025

anonymous2025

Still preparing to 🚍. 🌈
Apr 9, 2025
207
Hi guys, long time lurker and very occasional poster.

I just wanted to make a quick note about some thoughts I have, especially in light of the criticism this website receives.

I struggled immensely with my mental health for about 5 years, diagnosed with severe schizoaffective disorder. I am now in an amazing place mentally and strongly advocate for mental health. I loved having a space where I could express my thoughts without having a friend call the local hospital to have me admitted.

I tried to CTB twice via metformin overdose. Back then I didn't know about this website, but had a patient who killed themselves doing it. I researched it and it seemed pretty good. I took a mega overdose and miraculously survived. I even tried it again but still survived. The only damage I did was very minor kidney injury.

I later discovered this website and SN seemed brilliant. I ordered it and was planning to use it, but miraculously my mental health improved and I didn't.

Now here's my concern: if I had known about this website, I would have got the SN instead of metformin and there was a much higher likelihood I would have died. I see loads of patients doing things like panadol overdoses trying to kill themselves and I worry if they knew about SN they would be dead.

I totally understand having the right to choose just like we euthanise animals when they're sick. My mental health was at a point where recovery felt impossible and I had literally tried everything. But I did recover, and I am so glad I did.

I know that deleting this website won't stop people discovering SN and may do more harm than good by removing a support network. But I am a doctor so trying to stop people dying is literally my life. I have actively participated in the ED trying to save someone after they took SN.

This is a really complex topic and I am extremely passionate about mental health and would love to hear any thoughts.
Hey, first I just wanted to thank you for your service in saving patents lives, I can only imagine what that's like. I'm definitely pro choice when it comes to somebody choosing when and how they exit this life as we all go through different things, sometimes horrible events happen to good people and when the quality of life goes down, im all for the right to choose. It's a very personal choice/subject.
 
GhostInTheMachine

GhostInTheMachine

Stepping Stone
Nov 5, 2023
222
No, I definitely understand the suffering can be bad enough because I thought I was suffering so bad that I needed to end my own life. Maybe my distortion is in med school is that we were taught that mental health can be treated if all the right things are done. I was labelled as treatment resistant, meaning nothing would work. After years, I was able to use my connections to get into an psychiatrist who was ultra-specialised with people like me. So he puts me on a last resort medication, but it attacks my heart so he stops it. He then thinks about it and calls a cardioliogst who has done a lot of resarch into this medication. They discuss it, decide to restart the medication and blood tests show that my heart muscle is dying again. He perists, in hope it will all be okay. I maybe he thought that if my heart did give out (which they were closely monitoring to stop happening) that I had been in and out of the psych ward basically continuously for over 3 years. I had no quality of life. I was floridly psychotic and can't even remember much of this period in my life. But somehow it worked and my heart recovered

if a patient had tried absolutely EVERYTHING for their mental health (including the $15,000+ my parents spent on this new stuff) and were still suffering I could understanding being pro suicide.

But I worry a lot of people here haven't been able to try absolutely everything due to genuine reasons. If somehow they could just keep pushing through we might be able to finally get them better with the correct support. This can take time though. I guess I just hold a lot of home for people.

Speaking for myself, don't have 15k to drop on my mental issues. Economically, dying is more prudent, which sucks. I uunderstand that better healthcare would possibly help, but that's a maybe, not a definitive.
 
H

Hotsackage

Enlightened
Mar 11, 2019
1,144
I share a similar point of.view but at least people aren't doing violent methods for the most part
 
U

UserFromNowhere

Member
May 4, 2025
75
This website, finding SN, has kept my end at bay. Knowing my fate would be certain, that there's no returning way, the stark realization that death would be assured is a chilling certainty, a fate forever endured. If I'm to fall, it can't be on a fleeting whim, but a carefully laid plan. No matter how deeply depressed, the burden I'd leave behind, lost in despair, would be a sin. Only when all is settled, when all is made complete, when every task is finished, will I be fine with death, and leave life finally complete.
 
U

Username1359751

Enlightened
Mar 14, 2024
1,336
Stopping people from dying is a good thing. Stopping people from dying without their consent or despite lack of consent is a bad thing. It's really not that difficult and this subject isn't really in any way controversial if you engage with ethical issues like that regularly. Like I hope I don't need to explain to you why "saving" someone against their will is a bad thing, but in very short terms: it increases suffering and it's a violation of their autonomy, right. If someone takes SN, that's a decision that's ususally made for a reason. Maybe you should focus on these reasons instead of trying to infringe on people's right to die. If people don't want to die because they live a good life, you won't have to save them in the first place - crazy, right? So stop the treatment of symptoms as the solution and start advocating for real societal change.
I'm not going to beg, to differ... because, determining the nature of causes, age restriction, accessibility of means, proper treatment, etc in accordance with how someone ends their life is always going to be a controversial process to regulate, if you care --as you said you did-- about keeping people from dying. Boiling your argument down to autonomy and condescension is both crude and childish. It's stripping a suicidal person of their humanity and their right to live even in their darkest of hours. That's why there are added precautionary measures before abortions are performed; so that the one inquiring the procedure is properly informed of their options and given time to give consent, multiple times. Otherwise you're writing people off as lost causes unworthy of saving, essentially throwing them away. If you agree that keeping people from dying is good, then keeping people alive is also good.

It sounds like the OP isn't advocating against the right-to-die so much as advocating against being able to come to a website and be pointed in the direction of a prescription of SN, and advised of a protocol for maximum effectiveness, followed by a well-wishing send-off should you choose to say "Goodbye" before leaving.
Denying someone this particular experience is not "saving" them against their will or denying them their autonomy; it's simply not aiding them in their own suicide by providing a lethal source. Doing so infringes on their right to live by playing Dr. Death and essentially further solidifies their hopeless reality, which make you apart of the societal problems that treat people with mental adversities like garbage. Maybe you should practice what you preach and stick to focusing on the reasons people want to take SN instead of being the gatekeeper to the right to die. You deciding to keep access open for supply of SN does effectively 'stop the treatment of their symptoms' so you don't have to trouble yourself for a solution there. Problematic people solved, right?
Like I hope I don't need to explain to you why "saving" someone against their will is a bad thing
Like I hope I don't need to explain to you why starting a sentence with "Like" is a bad thing...
As a doctor you should know what's on people's mind when they commit suicide
Yeah no, this is an absurd statement meant to deflect blame and shift the issue of suicide onto the cause to justify the means, which it can not.
Improving our society and making people actually want to live is expensive and people quite obviously don't put their money where their mouth is. It's that simple. Nobody cares.

I'm glad you improved and recovered from your own struggles, as someone who has lived for quite a while now on this planet, I can assure you not everyone has the capacity (and privilege) to do that. There are certain situations and mental health conditions that make recovery very difficult to impossible. I hate to break it to you but you can not assume that everyone can improve just because you did. Just pointing that out because I'm not quite sure if you bringing up your own situation was supposed to be an argument against this website and the right to die in general.
These suggestions, while correct in theory, do not apply here because that is not the issue the OP brought up, nor did he imply that any of your improvements would be canceled out by attempting to deny the source of SN, deeming your causations of suicide irrelevant. Also, you saying that "making people want to live is expensive" etc can safely be inferred as stating that people who want to die are not worth the money of fixing; and so should therefore kill themselves because, as you said, "Nobody cares." (which would mean you don't either, because that's the meaning of nobody).

Well, hey, I care. Obviously so does OP, as do many members here... and, seeing as you ignore and allow the anti-life radical DeathEater members here to pollute and ruin people's experiences here; and instead race to give snarkyass arrogant responses to views that don't appear to align with yours, I can see how it's so easy for you to dismiss and write people off who could have a chance at life, even if they may not want it at the present being. You're allowing of recommendations for SN providers permanently restricts them from ever having that chance, should they succeed.
Who are you to allow someone you don't know such access? Someone who you know nothing of. I believe that is OP's argument imo. I don't know what yours is...
I hate to break it to you but you can not assume more people will not improve just because of one person sharing their desire to not die. Good god.

People don't always feel comfortable discussing their ethical issues of being here and bearing witness to the things that are posted, so I'm not going to let your "hammer" status (iykyk) try to talk down to the ones brave enough to actually speak up into backtracking to give pacifying answers.

You interject to correct people's threads all the time with "po-choice, pro-choice" yet here you are, taking away OP's choice expression to not give up on people? To not give out SN candy like they're vitamin samples? That's not hypocritical or cherrypicking causes at all. Op didn't attack people's right-to-die, or attack anything at all really so Idk why you're so damn defensive and putting words into his metaphorical mouth that aren't even there...
Weird and suspect iyam.

Also worth noting is you inserting/asserting your age for dramatic effect and/or for further reassurance of your knowledge-- as if it's more important than anyone else's, namely OP's-- is comical. (Like, you're in your 20s.. you're not old enough to throw around phrases like that.)

TL; DR --
I resent this overly pro-suicide post for OP and its implications, especially from an admin.
 
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U

Username1359751

Enlightened
Mar 14, 2024
1,336
I would say the more important thing is to allow people to lessen their suffering in whatever way possible they want to which includes suicide so more easy access to learn about SN is needed to for that goal. Having people suffer from life is way worse than being dead as with that you can't suffer at all nor desire anything in non existence so living shouldn't be the priority at all but that the person doesn't suffer should the priority. You aren't saving people by stopping their suicides as they choose to do that and they could just continue to suffer with life. Let people lessen/end their suffering in whatever way they see fit.
Do you reread what you write?
Basically, once you hit a stage of suffering, according to you 'living shouldn't be a priority at all'. Yeah because people never lead healthy fulfilling lives after going through the worst period(s) of their lives. That doesn't happen. That's why the self-help industry is worth how much? If you can teach someone to give up, you can teach them to stand up... but we know which one you choose. Would hate to get assigned to your classroom...

This is more pro-suicide rhetoric and it's dangerous... It's encouraging this overly simplistic anti-life mentality to forfeit your life. You wouldn't have the balls to say "supportive" things to a person you see about to jump off a bridge irl, why is the internet any different? Because it's easier and instant? Because the site's name is "permissble suicide" and coming here gives you easy access to a lethal solvent which increases the suicide count. That's essentially what you're rooting/voting for...
By your logic, we should pass out flyers to high schools letting pupils know they don't have to suffer once they turn 18, because hey, we got your backs ;)
"We can show you another way..." Is it any wonder this place has been called cult-like?

This is bullshit because I'm actually a very negative person and believe in regulated RTD. I resent being made to feel like if I don't point out this warped thinking and power plays by mods that create a veil of complicity without one's consent then I am just as guilty. Who the hell made you a mod? Why are there rules to legally cover your anus but not made to be enforced? Then OFCOM wouldn't be up your ass...
Very simple.
 
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Kali_Yuga13

Kali_Yuga13

Mage
Jul 11, 2024
572
I struggled immensely with my mental health for about 5 years, diagnosed with severe schizoaffective disorder.

I don't like to see people suffering and try to be generous with my pain meds (whilst still being safe).

I was floridly psychotic and can't even remember much of this period in my life.
With these things you said in mind it may be worth asking yourself if you're in the right profession to be tasked with having a cool head while saving people's lives including those that have intentionally taken a poison that you have entertained taking yourself? Is this really fair to the patient, their loved ones or the rest of the hospital staff?
 
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Tumblewillow

Tumblewillow

Member
Jul 28, 2021
61
I think the key is understanding that every single suicidal person's story is completely unique and because of that, the path to recovery has to be tailored to their individual circumstances as well. This is not possible in our world currently.

The requirements for recovery are beyond reach for a lot of people. The science isn't there yet, or the funding for the level of treatment they need is not possible, or they can't cope with recovery itself.

A key part of therapeutic treatment is accepting responsibility for your life and getting back in the drivers seat. But what do we do for the people that are not capable of that yet? Someone else has to take the wheel -- and no person can live someone else's life.

A lot of depressed people are currently suffering immensely and the prospect of trying new treatments/meeting new people/leaving abusers introduces a huge amount of risk that could worsen an already terrible situation. So they freeze and get stuck and don't move = no change in circumstance, same problems persist.

Because of this, I believe that people should be able to die peacefully/have access to info on safer methods if they choose. I think just knowing that you have a way out if it all goes wrong can unfreeze people. There is a safety net that would enable them to push a little more than they otherwise would be able to and if they truly hit their next limit then they deserve to not be in pain anymore.
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,181
TL; DR --
I resent this overly pro-suicide post for OP and its implications, especially from an admin.

You have any right to disagree with my post but I'm pretty sure I'm arguing for the only morally justifiable position here. Your disagreement is noticed but disregarded.
 
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Dot

Dot

Info abt typng styl on prfle.
Sep 26, 2021
3,334
With these things you said in mind it may be worth asking yourself if you're in the right profession to be tasked with having a cool head while saving people's lives including those that have intentionally taken a poison that you have entertained taking yourself? Is this really fair to the patient, their loved ones or the rest of the hospital staff?

Tbf thre r ppl in medcl prfessn wth all knd of physcl & mentl helth dsordrs - as lng as thy r managd thn thy shld nt b dffrnt t/ n.e othr stff

Slf persnlly knw of 2 othr medcl doctrs frm frum wh/ survivd ctb attmpts & r doin fne in thr jbs

Also a signfcnt proprtn of ppl workng in mentl helth hve xperncd m.h dsordrs thmslves whch mde thm wrk in thse areas in th/ 1st plce
 
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M

madwoman8

Member
May 7, 2025
23
Very interesting discussion. I, for one am so glad I found this site. First, being amongst people who also have suicidal thoughts like me so I'm not alone and it's a safe spot to discuss it in all the ways with understanding and without judgement. Second, because I wanted to have as much information as I could to not make a rash decision that would lead me to further damage if I failed, & further info to plan and prepare. I have been saving prescription meds for so long that I was keeping as a possible way out to find out on here that it's not a good method so I would have been worse off if I did take them all. (Did not learn my lesson when I overdosed on pills 20 years ago at 16) So I'm glad I learned of a better option and it gives me peace of mind to have this method. But I still have the power to not use my method and try to stay. Life is really hard and I believe we all have the right to decide it's our time to go & I wish it wasn't so hard to go. I don't want anyone to feel this way and I want everyone to have hope and get better and I don't want to assist in someone else's suicide either so I get your conflict. I can wish myself to die but tell others there is hope and don't give up lol. People will figure out other ways and there are so many horrific ones but to learn about more peaceful ways to go when we feel our time is up is good info to have.

The book and movie, Me Before You is a good perspective on Doctor assisted suicide and the movie the Room Next Door is a good perspective on someone with terminal cancer who commits suicide in a very peaceful way (that I'm quite jealous of & not sure actually exists maybe on the dark web). There's probably more movies and books and such with this topic showing someone making their own choice to ctb. To give you some perspectives.
 
NonEssential

NonEssential

Hanging in there
Jan 15, 2025
411
For some like me, knowing about SN won't change anything if unfortunately or fortunately you're unable to get your hands on all the necessary things to go through with that method.
 
Doemu

Doemu

⸸ I am my own end ⸸
Feb 4, 2024
221
I am a doctor so trying to stop people dying is literally my life.
If you know the person wants to live is ok.
If you don't know if the person wants to live is ok. (Most of people want)
If you know the person doesn't wants to live, then is NOT ok.

For some people living is hell.
There's nothing to recover from, because suicide is their best (and more important THEIR )choice.

Me, for example, attempted 6 times.
0 regrets.
I wish I already died at the first one or even never been born at all.
 
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G

ghostxheart

Member
Mar 4, 2025
22
It seems as though a lot of your reasoning comes from regret from trying, relief that you didn't succeed, and your own personal beliefs that things will just get better if people live longer. It's understandable, even though I'm not really "in your camp" so to speak, I considered being a mental health professional for several years and to this day, try to get people to see the realistic but hopeful side of things. But the truth is, for many of us, unless you personally become Jeff Bezos and fund all our of needs, there is no real hope of change. For example, in my case, I've wanted to CTB since at least 11 years old, perhaps younger as my memories of that period of my life are fuzzy at best. Therapy was court ordered when I went through foster care at age 9 and I've been in and out of that and hospitals for CTB attempts ever since. A decade and a half of trying, and while it hasn't been complete and utter suffering every single day, it's never truly gotten better.

"If the problem is isolation or not having good people in your life, then you should get out more and try to make new friends!" Putting aside the increasing (and I believe at least somewhat deliberate) isolation of the common person, I need money to do the vast majority of any social events, and while I *have* worked, I couldn't keep it up and be stable to have a reliable income for more than a few months. "There are jobs you can do even with your limited skill set/ability!" I'm aware, but that doesn't change that my ability to function in general, as in do anything that isn't just lie in bed wishing I was already on the bus, is basically non-existent which means my work performance will be poor and they'll eventually want to let me go. "You can get resources to support you, there are social support programs for people just like you!" Those programs are under extreme amounts of strain, are often understaffed, and the funding is getting cut constantly. "People are generous and love to help each other, if you just try to reach out someone will help!" Sure, plenty of people, often those struggling with the same thoughts, are quick to try and lend emotional support, but that doesn't help external circumstances like abuse, poverty, poor health (especially when you live somewhere where healthcare is not free or low cost), etc. Oftentimes, the people who have the financial means to help others either do it through charity or just don't trust being generous due to scams or even just lack of caring.

I'm also an idealist in certain ways, so it's not that I can't understand your position at all, but we need to acknowledge reality if we want to build real help. I would argue that instead of helping, when you push others into staying just because it *might* get better someday, even when you can't make any promises, it's causing harm because you're asking them to continue to suffer with no real end in sight. I do think it's important to try and exhaust all resources before genuinely considering CTB, but past a certain point, on the receiving end it feels like people are just telling you to keep trying these things you've either already tried or know for sure don't work for you, as if the other party knows you/your life/your circumstances better than you do- and worse, that the other person knows what's best for you as if you're still a child or too incompetent to make decisions yourself. Offering alternative solutions is good and correct, but oftentimes the reality of the situation is the people who claim to help are reacting from a place of emotion, jumping to tell the person to not do it and they should just keep living rather than actually listening to that person and assessing if there are any genuine changes that would actually improve things. Many times there are, but in just as many, in the society we live in, there are not. In such cases, pushing for someone to stay alive despite their own wishes becomes not an act of saving the other person, but of refusal to engage with them where they truly are and to sit with the personal discomfort of knowing that the person in front of you may die. I think in order to truly be able to help others, you need to be able to sit in that discomfort without reacting from that place.
 
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