Shadowlord900
Seeker of Darkness
- Sep 29, 2022
- 921
***DISCLAIMER: If you're wondering why I made a new topic it's because the previous version contained an SN table with dubious calculations that conflict with what 2 different sources recommend, I no longer trust what the table suggests. Unfortunately the forum won't let me edit that post due to how old it is so I've had to resort to making a new one.***
I feel like this needs to be said because we've been getting a lot of oral overdosing related topics with unreliable or practically useless substances in far too small quantities. So here's my advice on oral overdosing.
1) Is it a barbiturate? (e.g. Pentobarbital, Phenobarbital)
2) Is it an opioid/opiate? (e.g. Fentanyl, Morphine, Nitazenes)
3) Is it Sodium Nitrite?
If it's not any of the above, it's not worth overdosing on for the reasons below:
1) It's too unreliable
2) You need much larger quantities than the above listed substances for any decent chance of CTB
3) Even if you do manage to succeed, it'll be a far more unpleasant and even painful death that in some cases can even take up to a couple of weeks before you CTB
Also for whatever substance you plan on overdosing on, if it's not a minimum of 10g, don't even bother. I personally wouldn't even settle on 10g, I've heard of quite a few people surviving 10g overdoses. The most I've ever heard being possible to survive from a Phenobarbital overdose is 16g! It's best to aim for 20g.
If using an opioid, you also want to carefully research into the potency of said opioid because there's a wide range of opioids that range from low potency to high potency (e.g. fentanyl is much stronger than morphine). Also, ingesting opioids orally has less bioavailability compared to injecting it, so keep that in mind. You also want to make sure the opioid isn't combined with a painkiller like paracetamol or ibuprofen. You do not want to overdose on a painkiller because ironically, it's bloody painful.
Also be weary of drugs you have recently used if you plan on overdosing on them or something similar. Your body can build up tolerance to said drugs. It's best to take a few months break from them if you can before you attempt to overdose on them.
While benzodiazepines, alcohol and grapefruit juice can help increase your chances of CTB on barbiturates and opioids/opiates, they're not as effective as simply taking a larger quantity of the substance you're overdosing on. (For Sodium Nitrite, those don't help make it any more effective, but benzos will help take the edge off of some of SN's unpleasant side effects.)
For Sodium Nitrite, 25g is usually the magic number most people go for. The PPeH which can be found pinned in this forum recommends going for 35g if you're 100kg or over. Also, @littlelady774 made this useful formula (based on another formula for the LD50 of SN in rodents) that can help make a more calculated idea of how much SN you should take depending on your weight:
As you can see, it very closely matches what the PPeH recommends. You can find the post in the topic below:
sanctioned-suicide.net
Also please don't get Sodium Nitrite confused with Sodium Nitrate. Those are 2 different salts, and Sodium Nitrate is completely useless for overdosing on. And don't bother with Sodium Azide, it's both a more painful death and turns your body into a hazard that can harm others.
Antiemetics
Regardless of what substance you choose to overdose on, you want a proper antiemetic. Those will give you the best chances of preventing yourself from vomiting. Don't bother with any over the counter anti-nausea drugs, they're far too weak for this purpose. Metoclopramide is usually the most recommended antiemetic, but if you're too worried about its potentially dangerous side effects because you want to taste test the drug first, Domperidone is a great alternative with less potential side effects. If you're struggling to find an antiemetic, just ask around the forums once you get enough posts, someone will likely be kind enough to share a link with you in a private message. (Don't post them publicly, that's against the forum's rules.)
For a regimen on taking antiemetics, I recommend Stan's Guide to SN, since it'll most likely give you the best chances of vomit prevention:
sanctioned-suicide.net
While it was made with SN in mind, I think it can be useful to follow for any substance you plan on overdosing orally on. Try to avoid eating within at least 8 hours (or as long as you can manage) before taking your oral overdose, and try to avoid drinking any liquids within 2 hours before taking your oral overdose (and ideally don't drink too much liquids before those 2 hours either).
It's worth mentioning that Metoclopramide and Domperidone are what's known as dopamine antagonists. While dopamine antagonists are the most effective at preventing vomiting, they're not the only medication that can help in the prevention of vomiting. @melancholyc418 (from this topic: (https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-materials-new-idea.111496/) had the idea of taking 3 different kinds of medication at once that can help with vomit prevention. The PPeH when covering how to take the 5-Drug Mix also recommends taking 2 different kinds of antiemetics at the same time.
We've already covered one of them (the dopamine antagonists), the other 2 that can aid in vomit prevent are serotonin antagonists and histamine antagonists (also known as antihistamines). An example of a serotonin antagonist is Ondansetron, and a very effective one as it's commonly used in chemotherapy specifically to prevent nausea and vomiting. Some examples of antihistamines include Meclizine and Dimenhydrinate. While I think it's worth considering using an antihistamine along with another antiemetic, I think out of the 3 categories, antihistamines are the least effective at preventing vomiting, and thus should not be relied upon on its own. I also can't recommend a serotonin antagonist if going with the SN method, because after taking SN, if you want to abort and need emergencies to come rescue you, they'll administer an antidote that affects your serotonin levels and you could end up with serotonin syndrome.
Also whichever antiemetics you decide to combine, make sure to read up online on how they interact with each other. (Some sites say not to take metoclopramide with an antihistamine because it increases drowsiness, but that's something we actually want for our purpose.) When using 2 or more different kinds of antiemetics, do not take multiple antiemetics from the same category! In other words, do not take something like Metoclopramide and Domperidone at the same time, chances of getting nasty side effects that could get in the way of you CTBing will greatly increase.
Something else that you can also do to help avoid vomiting is mixing the crushed up drugs with something that is tasty and easy to digest like a yogurt. This idea came from a doctor who helped Marion Winik's husband with assisted suicide. You can read more about it from @nonialabaster below:
sanctioned-suicide.net
While I imagine it would take somewhat longer for your body to absorb the drugs, it should also further decrease your chances of vomiting. It's worth noting that from the sounds of it, Marion Wink's husband didn't even take antiemetics and still didn't vomited after eating his yogurt mix. I don't think this will work with SN so don't do that if you're gonna overdose on SN.
What to do if you still vomit
There's two different things you can do if you still vomit despite taking all the necessary precautions:
1) Take a second glass. This is the most common advice given with taking SN, because even taking antiemetics cannot guarantee you from not vomiting after drinking something as salty as SN. Some people will even prepare 3 glasses if they somehow happen to vomit again after taking the second glass. I unfortunately have not heard of this practice being using with other types of oral overdoses, so I can't say for sure if this can work for other oral overdoes.
2) Abort the process, call emergencies and make sure you've prepared any antidotes before attempting the overdose to further reduce chances of getting permanent damages after emergencies finally arrive to come help you.
It's not worth relying solely on emergency ambulances to come quick enough to administer the appropriate antidote for your overdose if in case they're late. That's why it's best to bring any antidotes related to the drugs you're overdosing on with you to further reduce chances of sustaining permanent damage. The antidote used for opioid overdose is Naloxone and can be taken orally, as well as administered via nasal spray. SN's antidote is Methylene Blue, but is usually administered intravenously and I haven't been able to find any info about the usage of Methylene Blue orally.
Barbiturates are among the drugs that have no true antidote. But you can take something called Activated Charcoal Powder. What ACP does when taken orally is it'll bind various drugs to itself, preventing it from getting absorbed by your body. ACP also can't be absorb itself and will eventually pass through your system along with any drugs that bind to it. (The only drugs this won't work with are ones that are acidic. ACP also does not work with alcohol, so don't drink alcohol with your drug mix if you plan on bailing out with ACP.) Be very careful not to swallow any ACP down the wrong pipe! Getting ACP in your lungs can be fatal if immediate medical treatment is not provided (such as while you're waiting for emergencies to arrive), but I can assure you it will not be a pleasant CTB.
Despite I like to think I know what I'm talking about, please don't rely solely on my own advice. Research as many different sources and opinions as you can, that will help give you the best idea on how to achieve fatal overdosing orally!
- New formula on how much SN you should take in regards to your bodyweight
- Additional warning about taking opioids combined with painkillers
- More information on antiemetics and what kinds you can use
- New section on what to do if in case vomiting occurs
I feel like this needs to be said because we've been getting a lot of oral overdosing related topics with unreliable or practically useless substances in far too small quantities. So here's my advice on oral overdosing.
1) Is it a barbiturate? (e.g. Pentobarbital, Phenobarbital)
2) Is it an opioid/opiate? (e.g. Fentanyl, Morphine, Nitazenes)
3) Is it Sodium Nitrite?
If it's not any of the above, it's not worth overdosing on for the reasons below:
1) It's too unreliable
2) You need much larger quantities than the above listed substances for any decent chance of CTB
3) Even if you do manage to succeed, it'll be a far more unpleasant and even painful death that in some cases can even take up to a couple of weeks before you CTB
Also for whatever substance you plan on overdosing on, if it's not a minimum of 10g, don't even bother. I personally wouldn't even settle on 10g, I've heard of quite a few people surviving 10g overdoses. The most I've ever heard being possible to survive from a Phenobarbital overdose is 16g! It's best to aim for 20g.
If using an opioid, you also want to carefully research into the potency of said opioid because there's a wide range of opioids that range from low potency to high potency (e.g. fentanyl is much stronger than morphine). Also, ingesting opioids orally has less bioavailability compared to injecting it, so keep that in mind. You also want to make sure the opioid isn't combined with a painkiller like paracetamol or ibuprofen. You do not want to overdose on a painkiller because ironically, it's bloody painful.
Also be weary of drugs you have recently used if you plan on overdosing on them or something similar. Your body can build up tolerance to said drugs. It's best to take a few months break from them if you can before you attempt to overdose on them.
While benzodiazepines, alcohol and grapefruit juice can help increase your chances of CTB on barbiturates and opioids/opiates, they're not as effective as simply taking a larger quantity of the substance you're overdosing on. (For Sodium Nitrite, those don't help make it any more effective, but benzos will help take the edge off of some of SN's unpleasant side effects.)
For Sodium Nitrite, 25g is usually the magic number most people go for. The PPeH which can be found pinned in this forum recommends going for 35g if you're 100kg or over. Also, @littlelady774 made this useful formula (based on another formula for the LD50 of SN in rodents) that can help make a more calculated idea of how much SN you should take depending on your weight:
As you can see, it very closely matches what the PPeH recommends. You can find the post in the topic below:
I took my SN yesterday. Willing to answer questions
At the time, I was in a particularly bad state of mind and the decision to just go ahead and do it was made very suddenly. Funnily enough, when you’re not thinking with a rational state of mind, you don’t think about a two day regimen, or breaking out weighing scales. I took propranolol and...
sanctioned-suicide.net
Also please don't get Sodium Nitrite confused with Sodium Nitrate. Those are 2 different salts, and Sodium Nitrate is completely useless for overdosing on. And don't bother with Sodium Azide, it's both a more painful death and turns your body into a hazard that can harm others.
Antiemetics
Regardless of what substance you choose to overdose on, you want a proper antiemetic. Those will give you the best chances of preventing yourself from vomiting. Don't bother with any over the counter anti-nausea drugs, they're far too weak for this purpose. Metoclopramide is usually the most recommended antiemetic, but if you're too worried about its potentially dangerous side effects because you want to taste test the drug first, Domperidone is a great alternative with less potential side effects. If you're struggling to find an antiemetic, just ask around the forums once you get enough posts, someone will likely be kind enough to share a link with you in a private message. (Don't post them publicly, that's against the forum's rules.)
For a regimen on taking antiemetics, I recommend Stan's Guide to SN, since it'll most likely give you the best chances of vomit prevention:
Stan's Guide to SN.
Sodium Nitrite (SN) Method Introduction This document has been designed to give a full understanding of SN, what it is, how it works and how to use it. It will use the most simplest way of delivering this information as many members do not have English as their first language. Therefore using...
sanctioned-suicide.net
While it was made with SN in mind, I think it can be useful to follow for any substance you plan on overdosing orally on. Try to avoid eating within at least 8 hours (or as long as you can manage) before taking your oral overdose, and try to avoid drinking any liquids within 2 hours before taking your oral overdose (and ideally don't drink too much liquids before those 2 hours either).
It's worth mentioning that Metoclopramide and Domperidone are what's known as dopamine antagonists. While dopamine antagonists are the most effective at preventing vomiting, they're not the only medication that can help in the prevention of vomiting. @melancholyc418 (from this topic: (https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-materials-new-idea.111496/) had the idea of taking 3 different kinds of medication at once that can help with vomit prevention. The PPeH when covering how to take the 5-Drug Mix also recommends taking 2 different kinds of antiemetics at the same time.
We've already covered one of them (the dopamine antagonists), the other 2 that can aid in vomit prevent are serotonin antagonists and histamine antagonists (also known as antihistamines). An example of a serotonin antagonist is Ondansetron, and a very effective one as it's commonly used in chemotherapy specifically to prevent nausea and vomiting. Some examples of antihistamines include Meclizine and Dimenhydrinate. While I think it's worth considering using an antihistamine along with another antiemetic, I think out of the 3 categories, antihistamines are the least effective at preventing vomiting, and thus should not be relied upon on its own. I also can't recommend a serotonin antagonist if going with the SN method, because after taking SN, if you want to abort and need emergencies to come rescue you, they'll administer an antidote that affects your serotonin levels and you could end up with serotonin syndrome.
Also whichever antiemetics you decide to combine, make sure to read up online on how they interact with each other. (Some sites say not to take metoclopramide with an antihistamine because it increases drowsiness, but that's something we actually want for our purpose.) When using 2 or more different kinds of antiemetics, do not take multiple antiemetics from the same category! In other words, do not take something like Metoclopramide and Domperidone at the same time, chances of getting nasty side effects that could get in the way of you CTBing will greatly increase.
Something else that you can also do to help avoid vomiting is mixing the crushed up drugs with something that is tasty and easy to digest like a yogurt. This idea came from a doctor who helped Marion Winik's husband with assisted suicide. You can read more about it from @nonialabaster below:
Swallowing 200 pills of 100mg phenobarbital - antiemetic needed?
Do I need an antiemetic alongside the pills or do phenobarbital pills not induce vomiting just like how you can take an insane amount of Xanax and not vomit.
sanctioned-suicide.net
While I imagine it would take somewhat longer for your body to absorb the drugs, it should also further decrease your chances of vomiting. It's worth noting that from the sounds of it, Marion Wink's husband didn't even take antiemetics and still didn't vomited after eating his yogurt mix. I don't think this will work with SN so don't do that if you're gonna overdose on SN.
What to do if you still vomit
There's two different things you can do if you still vomit despite taking all the necessary precautions:
1) Take a second glass. This is the most common advice given with taking SN, because even taking antiemetics cannot guarantee you from not vomiting after drinking something as salty as SN. Some people will even prepare 3 glasses if they somehow happen to vomit again after taking the second glass. I unfortunately have not heard of this practice being using with other types of oral overdoses, so I can't say for sure if this can work for other oral overdoes.
2) Abort the process, call emergencies and make sure you've prepared any antidotes before attempting the overdose to further reduce chances of getting permanent damages after emergencies finally arrive to come help you.
It's not worth relying solely on emergency ambulances to come quick enough to administer the appropriate antidote for your overdose if in case they're late. That's why it's best to bring any antidotes related to the drugs you're overdosing on with you to further reduce chances of sustaining permanent damage. The antidote used for opioid overdose is Naloxone and can be taken orally, as well as administered via nasal spray. SN's antidote is Methylene Blue, but is usually administered intravenously and I haven't been able to find any info about the usage of Methylene Blue orally.
Barbiturates are among the drugs that have no true antidote. But you can take something called Activated Charcoal Powder. What ACP does when taken orally is it'll bind various drugs to itself, preventing it from getting absorbed by your body. ACP also can't be absorb itself and will eventually pass through your system along with any drugs that bind to it. (The only drugs this won't work with are ones that are acidic. ACP also does not work with alcohol, so don't drink alcohol with your drug mix if you plan on bailing out with ACP.) Be very careful not to swallow any ACP down the wrong pipe! Getting ACP in your lungs can be fatal if immediate medical treatment is not provided (such as while you're waiting for emergencies to arrive), but I can assure you it will not be a pleasant CTB.
Despite I like to think I know what I'm talking about, please don't rely solely on my own advice. Research as many different sources and opinions as you can, that will help give you the best idea on how to achieve fatal overdosing orally!
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