Method Lethal OD with Zapain (painkillers)?

[phoenixx]

Zapain are strong painkillers with each pill containing 30mg of codeine and 500mg of paracetamol. I've overdosed on these a number of times (to get high, not to ctb) with my most recent OD being last wednesday . All together I took 270mg of codeine and 4,500mg of paracetamol. I went from being high and giddy, to sweating, shaking, very nauseous, blurred vision and almost passing out (I eventually vomited twice after a couple of hours).

My question is, do you think you can successfully ctb with Zapain? If so, how many pills do you think would be lethal?

(Note: I'm not planning on ctb this way but its good to have a few options)

 

[Letmego. Please]

Bad idea im afraid, the only part that may harm you is the paracetamol od & they are kinda unpleasant & can take days/week to kill ya. You are better off just having fun with them if thats your thing.

All the effects you note, shaking, nausea etc are the paracetamol not the codeine sadly

 

[phoenixx]

Bad idea im afraid, the only part that may harm you is the paracetamol od & they are kinda unpleasant & can take days/week to kill ya. You are better off just having fun with them if thats your thing.

All the effects you note, shaking, nausea etc are the paracetamol not the codeine sadly

So codeine won't do anything? That sucks. I thought it was worse than paracetamol but obviously I read wrong

 

[Camille Lejeune]

Paracetamol poisoning can kill you but it takes days and it seems really painful.

 

[deathenvoy]

If you want to get high do Cold Water Extraction of codeine.
Overdose of paracetamol is not certain and if successful is really painful as you die several days due to liver failure.

 

[Letmego. Please]

So codeine won't do anything? That sucks. I thought it was worse than paracetamol but obviously I read wrong

Sadly no, Codeine has a very high dose threshold & you are more likely to need assistance with a serious rear plumbing blockage than have any chance to die, though that being said people have died from said plumbing problems, not nice though.

 

[Halo13]

Sadly no, Codeine has a very high dose threshold & you are more likely to need assistance with a serious rear plumbing blockage than have any chance to die, though that being said people have died from said plumbing problems, not nice though.

Also I've read while codeine converts to morphine in the body, the conversion can vary widely. Some people get adequate pain relief from it equal to oxycodone or stronger, while others get nothing out of it. I'd figure that would factor in trying to ctb on it - even without the paracetamol in a person with no tolerance.

The itching and constipation alone would be awful lol

 

[CTB-London]

It would take a lot of Codeine to OD. If you fail with Zapain you risk a lingering death from liver failure due to the Paracetamol.

You can separate the Codeine from the Paracetamol because Codeine is water soluble and Paracetamol is not. Look online for the method.

The fact you call it Paracetamol makes me think you may be in Britain. Various online pharmacies sell Codeine Linctus (cough medicine) which contains no other pain killer so you can get large amounts of Codeine that way.

 

[lost_soul83]

It would take a lot of Codeine to OD. If you fail with Zapain you risk a lingering death from liver failure due to the Paracetamol.

You can separate the Codeine from the Paracetamol because Codeine is water soluble and Paracetamol is not. Look online for the method.

The fact you call it Paracetamol makes me think you may be in Britain. Various online pharmacies sell Codeine Linctus (cough medicine) which contains no other pain killer so you can get large amounts of Codeine that way.

Can people from the US order codeine from said online pharmacies? What are the url's?

 

[CTB-London]

Can people from the US order codeine from said online pharmacies? What are the url's?

You can separate the Codeine from over the counter pain pills with Codeine.

Judging from what I have read in the press, US doctors hand out much stronger pain pills quite freely anyway.

Try going to a doctor and saying you have back pain.

 

[Halo13]

You can separate the Codeine from over the counter pain pills with Codeine.

Judging from what I have read in the press, US doctors hand out much stronger pain pills quite freely anyway.

Try going to a doctor and saying you have back pain.

That is untrue. Doctors in the US don't just hand over strong opiates. In fact, it is almost impossible to get a prescription for painkillers unless you have a dental procedure done. To get a prescription in the US, you must provide lab imaging - an MRI, X-rays, go to physical therapy, chiropractors, exhaust every option before getting a prescription. Even then, a patient is required to sign a pain management contract for something like Vicodin after passing drug tests. It takes chronic pain patients (like myself) months, if not years, to gather documentation for "back pain" to be treated with strong painkillers. The CDC greatly limits doctors from prescribing above 90 MG morphine equivalency doses. Furthermore, a patient is not allowed to receive a benzo prescription while prescribed an opiate in most states now. Pharmacy records are closely monitored.

@lost_soul83 will have a very difficult time getting anything more than Ibuprofen or told to see a physical therapist in addition to Epsom salt baths and rest. Physicians used to be liberal with their prescription pads - several years ago. It is truly a shame for those living in pain to suffer due to regulations based on the actions of addicts. I understand the press makes a big hype over the opioid epidemic however I am simply trying to spread information in the interest of an effective ctb method without causing someone to waste their time.

 

[lost_soul83]

That is untrue. Doctors in the US don't just hand over strong opiates. In fact, it is almost impossible to get a prescription for painkillers unless you have a dental procedure done. To get a prescription in the US, you must provide lab imaging - an MRI, X-rays, go to physical therapy, chiropractors, exhaust every option before getting a prescription. Even then, a patient is required to sign a pain management contract for something like Vicodin after passing drug tests. It takes chronic pain patients (like myself) months, if not years, to gather documentation for "back pain" to be treated with strong painkillers. The CDC greatly limits doctors from prescribing above 90 MG morphine equivalency doses. Furthermore, a patient is not allowed to receive a benzo prescription while prescribed an opiate in most states now. Pharmacy records are closely monitored.

@lost_soul83 will have a very difficult time getting anything more than Ibuprofen or told to see a physical therapist in addition to Epsom salt baths and rest. Physicians used to be liberal with their prescription pads - several years ago. It is truly a shame for those living in pain to suffer due to regulations based on the actions of addicts. I understand the press makes a big hype over the opioid epidemic however I am simply trying to spread information in the interest of an effective ctb method without causing someone to waste their time.

I totally agree. About 8-10 years ago I started out as a chronic pain patient receiving opioids for pain. That totally went off the rails and I became heavily addicted to them. For the last 6+ years I've been going to a methadone clinic for help with my addiction and my chronic pain. The only reason I don't taper off the methadone is because I still have severe pain and if I leave that clinic, I will not get any more opioids to control the pain. So basically I'm stuck there because no doctor in the US is willing to prescribe painkillers anymore. My only chance would be to save up my methadone and ctb that way by OD and even if I take a ton of that stuff, there are no guarantees it'll kill me.

 

[Halo13]

I totally agree. About 8-10 years ago I started out as a chronic pain patient receiving opioids for pain. That totally went off the rails and I became heavily addicted to them. For the last 6+ years I've been going to a methadone clinic for help with my addiction and my chronic pain. The only reason I don't taper off the methadone is because I still have severe pain and if I leave that clinic, I will not get any more opioids to control the pain. So basically I'm stuck there because no doctor in the US is willing to prescribe painkillers anymore. My only chance would be to save up my methadone and ctb that way by OD and even if I take a ton of that stuff, there are no guarantees it'll kill me.

Hugs. I know that happens, also. One of my neighbors is in your exact situation and constantly says he believes the methadone is awful (user of ~17 years) but can't quit. Sounds like a really rough problem to deal with. It is ridiculous to see on the news about the opioid epidemic when you're lucky to get some Tylenol 3 or Tramadol. I recall my doctor exactly 3 summers ago talking real with me about the changes and now we have them.

Crying shame was my pharmacist saying a woman going on 88 years old was taken off her codeine of 10 years cold turkey because of the opioid epidemic. Makes my blood boil doctors are so afraid of losing their license they allow patients to suffer. Then of course when someone is so desperate for pain relief, they turn to the streets for anything to make it stop and die from Fentanyl laced heroin or fake pressed pills. Good people who never would've thought to do hard drugs, either. That's the real opioid epidemic if you ask me. Wish more people heard about that in the news!

I'm not sure if taking all the methadone you'd stock up on (weekend doses, I assume?) would work either because of how it builds up in your body. As you said, no guarantee it'd work. Maybe with benzos on top or booze? Figure it's pointless to add different opioids because they're blocked at lower doses, if I recall correctly.

 

[lost_soul83]

Hugs. I know that happens, also. One of my neighbors is in your exact situation and constantly says he believes the methadone is awful (user of ~17 years) but can't quit. Sounds like a really rough problem to deal with. It is ridiculous to see on the news about the opioid epidemic when you're lucky to get some Tylenol 3 or Tramadol. I recall my doctor exactly 3 summers ago talking real with me about the changes and now we have them.

Crying shame was my pharmacist saying a woman going on 88 years old was taken off her codeine of 10 years cold turkey because of the opioid epidemic. Makes my blood boil doctors are so afraid of losing their license they allow patients to suffer. Then of course when someone is so desperate for pain relief, they turn to the streets for anything to make it stop and die from Fentanyl laced heroin or fake pressed pills. Good people who never would've thought to do hard drugs, either. That's the real opioid epidemic if you ask me. Wish more people heard about that in the news!

I'm not sure if taking all the methadone you'd stock up on (weekend doses, I assume?) would work either because of how it builds up in your body. As you said, no guarantee it'd work. Maybe with benzos on top or booze? Figure it's pointless to add different opioids because they're blocked at lower doses, if I recall correctly.

I agree with what you said about doctors not prescribing anything because they're afraid of losing their licenses. When did medicine become all about covering their (doctors, nurses, big pharma) own asses and the patients taking all the responsibility and not about helping the people that need it the most?? Mind you, I was, and still am, one of those people that need pain control just to function. Instead, the doctors would rather see me suffer than risk their precious licenses. That is what makes my blood boil. No one gives a shit about anyone else anymore, only about themselves. That is the exact predicament I'm in with the doctor at my methadone clinic right now. I worked hard to stay clean and worked my way up the ladder and was getting two weeks worth of doses at a time. Then, because I decided to be honest with my counselor and told him about my ctb attempt, they took it all away and made me start going 6 days a week again. They're claiming it's for my safety, but what it's really about is covering their own asses! I didn't even use any methadone for my ctb attempt! Since then (the end of March), I've done everything they've asked of me and they still refuse to let me earn my phases (take-home doses) back! I am so angry but I'm stuck being their fucking puppet because I'm addicted to this shit. I just wanna scream!!!

 

[Halo13]

I agree with what you said about doctors not prescribing anything because they're afraid of losing their licenses. When did medicine become all about covering their (doctors, nurses, big pharma) own asses and the patients taking all the responsibility and not about helping the people that need it the most?? Mind you, I was, and still am, one of those people that need pain control just to function. Instead, the doctors would rather see me suffer than risk their precious licenses. That is what makes my blood boil. No one gives a shit about anyone else anymore, only about themselves. That is the exact predicament I'm in with the doctor at my methadone clinic right now. I worked hard to stay clean and worked my way up the ladder and was getting two weeks worth of doses at a time. Then, because I decided to be honest with my counselor and told him about my ctb attempt, they took it all away and made me start going 6 days a week again. They're claiming it's for my safety, but what it's really about is covering their own asses! I didn't even use any methadone for my ctb attempt! Since then (the end of March), I've done everything they've asked of me and they still refuse to let me earn my phases (take-home doses) back! I am so angry but I'm stuck being their fucking puppet because I'm addicted to this shit. I just wanna scream!!!

I'm so sorry. I've had friends describe the EXACT same thing going to the clinic, almost verbatim. And it's not like you can taper off the methadone then try to see pain management because absolutely no doctor will prescribe painkillers to someone previously on methadone. I relate to needing it to function - I'm the same with my meds. Without it, I'm essentially bed ridden to the point of no sleep or eating. I went through a phase where I almost believed the doctors saying it was all in my head or that antidepressants were the answer to my physical pain.

Such a crock! They just didn't care or bother with MRIs or X-rays, labelled me a drug seeker particularly because of my history with suicide attempts. If you're honest with them, you're punished and treated like a child - as if a daily dose of any opiate/opioid/synthetic could kill a person with a tolerance in the first place! Plus I can never get benzos for my intense PTSD and anxiety thanks to folks getting high on them. (They also say it causes early onset dementia. So what? Even if I live that long, it's worth the risk to maybe go see a movie!) Meanwhile when folks like us try to explain these facts of the medical community, we're disregarded. I can relate to your climb up the ladder as I've jumped through hoops like a circus poodle to get on meds. Even then, I have to pass UAs and get some wonderful judgement from the medical staff. In the end, it isn't even enough to provide adequate relief but I have to accept what I'm given.

I feel your posts so much. I wish we could time travel back a couple decades, maybe not end up ctb-ing. I just know living like this isn't really living - it's merely existing

 

[Letmego. Please]

@Halo13 @lost_soul83

I am so sorry to read what you both are going through, as a fellow pain punter i understand everything you are saying, i have watched the 'opioid epidemic' narrative from your side of the atlantic & always understood it was about the greed of pharma companies who were not happy to just sell there wares to the terminally ill & chronic (never-ending) pain patients, no that didn't make them enough money, i know tell Dr's there non addictive & safe to give to anybody...

I remember yrs ago when i moved & changed Gp's in the late 90's i was amazed & bloody happy (pain free almost, which is like the holy grail for us) when he was happy to prescribe what at the time here was only used in end of life care, the oh so brilliant Fentanyl patches (the naughty type that where filled with a Fent gel) By then i had been a chronic pain punter for only 8yrs & my god they were so great, for the first time in yrs the pain wasn't the first a foremost thing in my brain 24/7, I'm guessing you understand the bizarre feeling of not being in agony?
I know in comparison i am in a much better place than you both, i still have the same great gp who after i once tried to Od on my stockpiled painkillers got told by the Mental health bunch to stop my meds, he told them where to go thankfully & i promised to never use anything he prescribed ever again. But we still have the head medical establishment now dictating that like in the 90's when he scribed me a 'terminal only painkiller' that anything stronger than co-codamol is reserved again only for end of life, they have drawn up similar limits, here it is to be no more than the equivalent of 120mgs of morphine a day which would leave me unable to function & although we here have not yet suffered from the mass removal (by fear) of peoples meds, it is starting to happen & again though we don't have the same problems with fake pressed pills & adulterated heroin the exact same arguments for the removal of peoples life lines is being used here.

@lost_soul83 I take it from what you said that a Methadone script has the same negative, lowest of the low associations for you as it does in the Uk? i have known people on 'done scripts & society does not treat them well. How do you find just the drug in its self as a pain killer? when i have tried it, it seemed more helpful in needing less breakthrough meds.
I did once save up nearly a litre that a mate had been giving me (the usual here is 1mg/1ml) As you can guess it didn't kill me sadly, but although waking up to find you are alive is never welcome, i did spend the next couple of weeks so off my head i didn't really much care (i refused to tell them what i had taken or let them take any bloods to find out, I'm helpful like that lol)

As daft as it sounds here. Take care both you (((Hugs)))

 

[lost_soul83]

@Halo13 @lost_soul83

I am so sorry to read what you both are going through, as a fellow pain punter i understand everything you are saying, i have watched the 'opioid epidemic' narrative from your side of the atlantic & always understood it was about the greed of pharma companies who were not happy to just sell there wares to the terminally ill & chronic (never-ending) pain patients, no that didn't make them enough money, i know tell Dr's there non addictive & safe to give to anybody...

I remember yrs ago when i moved & changed Gp's in the late 90's i was amazed & bloody happy (pain free almost, which is like the holy grail for us) when he was happy to prescribe what at the time here was only used in end of life care, the oh so brilliant Fentanyl patches (the naughty type that where filled with a Fent gel) By then i had been a chronic pain punter for only 8yrs & my god they were so great, for the first time in yrs the pain wasn't the first a foremost thing in my brain 24/7, I'm guessing you understand the bizarre feeling of not being in agony?
I know in comparison i am in a much better place than you both, i still have the same great gp who after i once tried to Od on my stockpiled painkillers got told by the Mental health bunch to stop my meds, he told them where to go thankfully & i promised to never use anything he prescribed ever again. But we still have the head medical establishment now dictating that like in the 90's when he scribed me a 'terminal only painkiller' that anything stronger than co-codamol is reserved again only for end of life, they have drawn up similar limits, here it is to be no more than the equivalent of 120mgs of morphine a day which would leave me unable to function & although we here have not yet suffered from the mass removal (by fear) of peoples meds, it is starting to happen & again though we don't have the same problems with fake pressed pills & adulterated heroin the exact same arguments for the removal of peoples life lines is being used here.

@lost_soul83 I take it from what you said that a Methadone script has the same negative, lowest of the low associations for you as it does in the Uk? i have known people on 'done scripts & society does not treat them well. How do you find just the drug in its self as a pain killer? when i have tried it, it seemed more helpful in needing less breakthrough meds.
I did once save up nearly a litre that a mate had been giving me (the usual here is 1mg/1ml) As you can guess it didn't kill me sadly, but although waking up to find you are alive is never welcome, i did spend the next couple of weeks so off my head i didn't really much care (i refused to tell them what i had taken or let them take any bloods to find out, I'm helpful like that lol)

As daft as it sounds here. Take care both you (((Hugs)))

Thank you for the kind words. It's always nice to speak to someone who understands what's it's like. There aren't many people in my life that can relate and the ones that can, the other patients at the methadone clinic, are far from trustworthy or kind. They are after all, addicts. I'm not gonna lie and say that I'm not an addict because I am and I guess I'm no better than a heroin addict, just because I got hooked on pain pills that I started out using for a legitimate reason. I don't know about the UK but the US is way behind the times when it comes to chronic pain control. The only thing that ever truly helped me was and still is the opiates, which I got addicted to very easily and got out of control very quickly. Methadone does help with the pain, but not as much as it used to, just like any other opiate, you have to increase the dose periodically for it to have the same effect. As far as a stigma of people that are on methadone, it's not that, it's more of an addict thing. In the US, addicts in general are looked down upon and treated like garbage, especially by the medical community. And if you've ever been addicted to pain medication, then ANY time you visit a doctor, you're drug-seeking. I fucking hate it. I am not my addiction! I am a kind, caring, loving human being but no one cares about that, only the fact that I'm an addict. They don't care about how hard it is to resist the temptation to use, every single moment of every single day. Or how hard it is to deal with the horrible treatment by everyone.

But anyway, thanks . It's so nice to speak to a kind person who understands.

I'm so sorry. I've had friends describe the EXACT same thing going to the clinic, almost verbatim. And it's not like you can taper off the methadone then try to see pain management because absolutely no doctor will prescribe painkillers to someone previously on methadone. I relate to needing it to function - I'm the same with my meds. Without it, I'm essentially bed ridden to the point of no sleep or eating. I went through a phase where I almost believed the doctors saying it was all in my head or that antidepressants were the answer to my physical pain.

Such a crock! They just didn't care or bother with MRIs or X-rays, labelled me a drug seeker particularly because of my history with suicide attempts. If you're honest with them, you're punished and treated like a child - as if a daily dose of any opiate/opioid/synthetic could kill a person with a tolerance in the first place! Plus I can never get benzos for my intense PTSD and anxiety thanks to folks getting high on them. (They also say it causes early onset dementia. So what? Even if I live that long, it's worth the risk to maybe go see a movie!) Meanwhile when folks like us try to explain these facts of the medical community, we're disregarded. I can relate to your climb up the ladder as I've jumped through hoops like a circus poodle to get on meds. Even then, I have to pass UAs and get some wonderful judgement from the medical staff. In the end, it isn't even enough to provide adequate relief but I have to accept what I'm given.

I feel your posts so much. I wish we could time travel back a couple decades, maybe not end up ctb-ing. I just know living like this isn't really living - it's merely existing

When you invent a time machine, lemme know so I can jump in that baby with you! Anyway, thank you for being so kind to me. And I'm so sorry for what you're going through as well. I wish chronic pain patients had better options for treating their pain, instead of these blasted opioids that a person becomes physically addicted to very quickly and needs increasing dosages to keep the pain at bay. And eventually, the dosage needed for adequate pain control would kill a person! I could taper off the methadone but then I'd have absolutely nothing for pain and no doctor would give it to me, as you said. So I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm trying to procure the necessary ingredients for the Amitriptyline cocktail but I've got hardly any money. And hanging is tricky. I just don't know what to do anymore. If you've got any suggestions they'd be greatly appreciated. Thank you honey. Many big hugs to you.

 

[JadedGray]

Thank you for the kind words. It's always nice to speak to someone who understands what's it's like. There aren't many people in my life that can relate and the ones that can, the other patients at the methadone clinic, are far from trustworthy or kind. They are after all, addicts. I'm not gonna lie and say that I'm not an addict because I am and I guess I'm no better than a heroin addict, just because I got hooked on pain pills that I started out using for a legitimate reason. I don't know about the UK but the US is way behind the times when it comes to chronic pain control. The only thing that ever truly helped me was and still is the opiates, which I got addicted to very easily and got out of control very quickly. Methadone does help with the pain, but not as much as it used to, just like any other opiate, you have to increase the dose periodically for it to have the same effect. As far as a stigma of people that are on methadone, it's not that, it's more of an addict thing. In the US, addicts in general are looked down upon and treated like garbage, especially by the medical community. And if you've ever been addicted to pain medication, then ANY time you visit a doctor, you're drug-seeking. I fucking hate it. I am not my addiction! I am a kind, caring, loving human being but no one cares about that, only the fact that I'm an addict. They don't care about how hard it is to resist the temptation to use, every single moment of every single day. Or how hard it is to deal with the horrible treatment by everyone.

But anyway, thanks ❤. It's so nice to speak to a kind person who understands.


When you invent a time machine, lemme know so I can jump in that baby with you! Anyway, thank you for being so kind to me. And I'm so sorry for what you're going through as well. I wish chronic pain patients had better options for treating their pain, instead of these blasted opioids that a person becomes physically addicted to very quickly and needs increasing dosages to keep the pain at bay. And eventually, the dosage needed for adequate pain control would kill a person! I could taper off the methadone but then I'd have absolutely nothing for pain and no doctor would give it to me, as you said. So I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm trying to procure the necessary ingredients for the Amitriptyline cocktail but I've got hardly any money. And hanging is tricky. I just don't know what to do anymore. If you've got any suggestions they'd be greatly appreciated. Thank you honey. Many big hugs to you.

Another problem with opioids is that they change how your brain reacts to pain and lowers your pain threshold/tolerance.

 

[Letmego. Please]

Thank you for the kind words. It's always nice to speak to someone who understands what's it's like. There aren't many people in my life that can relate and the ones that can, the other patients at the methadone clinic, are far from trustworthy or kind. They are after all, addicts. I'm not gonna lie and say that I'm not an addict because I am and I guess I'm no better than a heroin addict, just because I got hooked on pain pills that I started out using for a legitimate reason. I don't know about the UK but the US is way behind the times when it comes to chronic pain control. The only thing that ever truly helped me was and still is the opiates, which I got addicted to very easily and got out of control very quickly. Methadone does help with the pain, but not as much as it used to, just like any other opiate, you have to increase the dose periodically for it to have the same effect. As far as a stigma of people that are on methadone, it's not that, it's more of an addict thing. In the US, addicts in general are looked down upon and treated like garbage, especially by the medical community. And if you've ever been addicted to pain medication, then ANY time you visit a doctor, you're drug-seeking. I fucking hate it. I am not my addiction! I am a kind, caring, loving human being but no one cares about that, only the fact that I'm an addict. They don't care about how hard it is to resist the temptation to use, every single moment of every single day. Or how hard it is to deal with the horrible treatment by everyone.

But anyway, thanks ❤. It's so nice to speak to a kind person who understands.

Thank you too, i also don't have anyone who really understands & as my problems are self inflicted as such i have never felt able to talk to my fellow wheelies either.
The Methadone 'addicts' thing is the same here, it is not used for anything other than heroin addicts & they are seen as the dregs of society, the usual they will rob your granny for a hit 'Tabloid' fodder. But that is wrong, as much as i am not religious there is a phrase "But for the grace of" nobody choses to grow up in an area where drugs are freely available, circumstance meant i grew up in a to me drug free zone, so when i needed to escape reality i drank as that was what was available to me, if i had grown up in a place where i knew other things were on hand then i accept i may have gone down that route instead.
Pain control wise things are the same here, 26yrs ago i was on meds meant only for end of life care, then 15yrs ago things started to loosen up, as you guys started to scribe opiates for chronic pain, so did we, we also went wholesale for the "drugs reps" claim's of non addiction & how it was safe to prescribe for every little twinge, we have so many people here dependant on opiates who didn't always need them to start out with but here with the NHS a few yrs back Gp's would scribe them just to keep the patient happy as that was what they wanted, now that has come back to bite them & anybody who was ever on them. (Before anybody jumps down my throat that is just my experience of the NHS)

At the moment i really need to move as the place i live in is too big & expensive for me to look after, but i have had the same Gp for 20yrs who is great at ignoring all the crap like my mental health & previous alcohol addiction in regards to providing me with pain control, if i move i will lose that Gp & with it any guarantee that the same treatment will continue.

You may be an "addict" in the broad sense of the word, but you are a person & i care that you are a kind, caring, loving human being who was put in a situation out of your control, needing painkillers to function & then being treated worse than dog for needing them is evil, i am so sorry.

 

[lost_soul83]

Thank you too, i also don't have anyone who really understands & as my problems are self inflicted as such i have never felt able to talk to my fellow wheelies either.
The Methadone 'addicts' thing is the same here, it is not used for anything other than heroin addicts & they are seen as the dregs of society, the usual they will rob your granny for a hit 'Tabloid' fodder. But that is wrong, as much as i am not religious there is a phrase "But for the grace of" nobody choses to grow up in an area where drugs are freely available, circumstance meant i grew up in a to me drug free zone, so when i needed to escape reality i drank as that was what was available to me, if i had grown up in a place where i knew other things were on hand then i accept i may have gone down that route instead.
Pain control wise things are the same here, 26yrs ago i was on meds meant only for end of life care, then 15yrs ago things started to loosen up, as you guys started to scribe opiates for chronic pain, so did we, we also went wholesale for the "drugs reps" claim's of non addiction & how it was safe to prescribe for every little twinge, we have so many people here dependant on opiates who didn't always need them to start out with but here with the NHS a few yrs back Gp's would scribe them just to keep the patient happy as that was what they wanted, now that has come back to bite them & anybody who was ever on them. (Before anybody jumps down my throat that is just my experience of the NHS)

At the moment i really need to move as the place i live in is too big & expensive for me to look after, but i have had the same Gp for 20yrs who is great at ignoring all the crap like my mental health & previous alcohol addiction in regards to providing me with pain control, if i move i will lose that Gp & with it any guarantee that the same treatment will continue.

You may be an "addict" in the broad sense of the word, but you are a person & i care that you are a kind, caring, loving human being who was put in a situation out of your control, needing painkillers to function & then being treated worse than dog for needing them is evil, i am so sorry.

You're too sweet. I wish more people would take the time to understand these things and not treat anyone this way for any reason. We're all human beings that should be entitled to compassion and understanding, not to mention respect.

I hope you figure things out with where to live and finding a good gp. Quite honestly, I think you might be stuck. Good gp's are sooooo hard to find these days, especially ones who actually help you with your pain and believe you when you tell them how bad it is. Please feel free to pm me anytime. I really enjoy hearing from you.

 

[JadedGray]

Another problem with opioids is that they change how your brain reacts to pain and lowers your pain threshold/tolerance.

To add to this, it's hard to find a GP. I've been without a doctor for over 1 year now because it's impossible to find one that isn't in a walk-in clinic that wants to hurry patients out the door after 10-20 minutes and no doctor wants to take me on as a patient because of chronic pain and because of my mental health history. I'm just relieved I'm no longer taking any medications, since in the long run they didn't help and only made my pain worse because my ability to withstand pain decreased, not to mention the dependency and subsequent withdrawal.

 

[Letmego. Please]

To add to this, it's hard to find a GP. I've been without a doctor for over 1 year now because it's impossible to find one that isn't in a walk-in clinic that wants to hurry patients out the door after 10-20 minutes and no doctor wants to take me on as a patient because of chronic pain and because of my mental health history. I'm just relieved I'm no longer taking any medications, since in the long run they didn't help and only made my pain worse because my ability to withstand pain decreased, not to mention the dependency and subsequent withdrawal.

I am sorry to hear that, it makes no sense not to treat someone for those reasons as they both feed back to each other if not helped.

I am curious about the 'opioids lowers your pain threshold' theory? We are all different so therefore we will all react differently but in 26yrs as a chronic pain punter i have never heard that one. I am glad you have been able to cope without meds but do you think life would be more bearable for you if you could get a Dr & find a way of dealing with the pain with other meds or help?

 

[JadedGray]

I am sorry to hear that, it makes no sense not to treat someone for those reasons as they both feed back to each other if not helped.

I am curious about the 'opioids lowers your pain threshold' theory? We are all different so therefore we will all react differently but in 26yrs as a chronic pain punter i have never heard that one. I am glad you have been able to cope without meds but do you think life would be more bearable for you if you could get a Dr & find a way of dealing with the pain with other meds or help?

Unfortunately, the doctors around here think I would be too much of a liability (given all my suicide attempts). They also seem overwhelmed and not sure what to do with me, as a patient. There's no easy fix for a patient with chronic pain and Depression.

This is what my doctors used to tell me. There might not be any truth to it. When I was on pain meds, the same dosage never worked for very long and the doctors never wanted to increase the dosage and would claim that in the long run, I would be dealing with more pain. They referred to it as opioid induced Hyperalgesia. Most of my pain stemmed from Endometriosis, but since having a complete Hysterectomy, the pain has substantially subsided (they claimed that this surgery wouldn't help much and discouraged me from getting it, but I'm glad I trusted my gut instinct and got the surgery). I still deal with Fibromyalgia and Migraines, but I'd rather stay away from meds if I can help it. Right now, I'm changing my lifestyle (healthy eating and taking supplements) and hoping that it will help even if it takes longer and doesn't provide immediate relief.

I'm sorry you've had to suffer with chronic pain for so long.

 

[Letmego. Please]

Unfortunately, the doctors around here think I would be too much of a liability (given all my suicide attempts). They also seem overwhelmed and not sure what to do with me, as a patient. There's no easy fix for a patient with chronic pain and Depression.

This is what my doctors used to tell me. There might not be any truth to it. When I was on pain meds, the same dosage never worked for very long and the doctors never wanted to increase the dosage and would claim that in the long run, I would be dealing with more pain. They referred to it as opioid induced Hyperalgesia. Most of my pain stemmed from Endometriosis, but since having a complete Hysterectomy, the pain has substantially subsided (they claimed that this surgery wouldn't help much and discouraged me from getting it, but I'm glad I trusted my gut instinct and got the surgery). I still deal with Fibromyalgia and Migraines, but I'd rather stay away from meds if I can help it. Right now, I'm changing my lifestyle (healthy eating and taking supplements) and hoping that it will help even if it takes longer and doesn't provide immediate relief.

I'm sorry you've had to suffer with chronic pain for so long.

That is wrong, it seem simple to me, if you treat the pain & the person with it with dignity and respect then their depression will also respond, there is nothing worse for someones MH than to be left feeling like they are having to battle Dr's just to acknowledge there is a problem. I have known a few people with Endometriosis who have also had to battle to get the same treatment as you while also having MH problems, having watched them struggle to get anyone to listen & treat them with respect i feel for you being in the same situation but glad you have been able to take some control over it yourself.

If suicide attempts were a good reason not to treat someone then i would have been stuffed yrs ago, yes you do end up needing increased doses but is manageable by swapping meds around, adding breakthrough meds & i guess just the self knowledge that if you wish to live a long life then you resist upping the meds unless it's affecting your MH. I have heard of this 'Opioid induced Hyperalgesia' but to my knowledge it is a rare side effect that is used as an excuse.

I'm sorry, there is a simple answer, treat your physical problems with care & respect, then your depression would be easier to live with, it's worked for me over the yrs & i am a nutty liability and a half.

 

[JadedGray]

That is wrong, it seem simple to me, if you treat the pain & the person with it with dignity and respect then their depression will also respond, there is nothing worse for someones MH than to be left feeling like they are having to battle Dr's just to acknowledge there is a problem. I have known a few people with Endometriosis who have also had to battle to get the same treatment as you while also having MH problems, having watched them struggle to get anyone to listen & treat them with respect i feel for you being in the same situation but glad you have been able to take some control over it yourself.

If suicide attempts were a good reason not to treat someone then i would have been stuffed yrs ago, yes you do end up needing increased doses but is manageable by swapping meds around, adding breakthrough meds & i guess just the self knowledge that if you wish to live a long life then you resist upping the meds unless it's affecting your MH. I have heard of this 'Opioid induced Hyperalgesia' but to my knowledge it is a rare side effect that is used as an excuse.

I'm sorry, there is a simple answer, treat your physical problems with care & respect, then your depression would be easier to live with, it's worked for me over the yrs & i am a nutty liability and a half.

If only more doctors could be this way, but they'll never know what it's like living with chronic pain, so I guess I shouldn't expect them to understand. It takes someone living with pain to really understand someone else's suffering. Thank you for your kindness and support. I wish you well in the future and that you're able to keep your pain at a minimum.

 

[Halo13]

To add to this, it's hard to find a GP. I've been without a doctor for over 1 year now because it's impossible to find one that isn't in a walk-in clinic that wants to hurry patients out the door after 10-20 minutes and no doctor wants to take me on as a patient because of chronic pain and because of my mental health history. I'm just relieved I'm no longer taking any medications, since in the long run they didn't help and only made my pain worse because my ability to withstand pain decreased, not to mention the dependency and subsequent withdrawal.

I had a terrible time finding a GP because of my mental health history even though I went off psych meds 5 years ago. Refusing to treat a patient's pain because of their mental health status is cruel. I was shocked they couldn't correlate untreated physical pain = more mental pain. I actually went to a clinic and laid my cards on the table for the GP and assertively stated "If you refuse to treat me for my physical condition, order proper testing, treat me as a person, not a number I may as well leave now. I have no quality of life and cannot waste more time with doctors who label me on my history. You'll either treat me or you won't." before we she'd even opened my file. (Admittedly I was nervous being so demanding with a physician and planned what I'd say - I was going to ctb if it didn't work.) She was actually glad I was so adamant about my care and never mentioned my mental health. She's still my GP now and discovered my degenerative disc disease.

It took years to find someone like her and I know all too well how improbable it is. You are treated as subhuman and dismissed. It's horrible and beyond unfair. That said, grass isn't always greener - I thought receiving proper care would truly help my ctb thoughts. Unfortunately, it just made me worse thinking "I can't do all of this! I don't even want to fight for life anyways. This didn't magically solve anything".

Plus, if I need Lorazepam for my seizures, I can't get it because the doctors refuse now to write an opioid with a benzo. One step forward, 10 steps back. I also loathe having to take something addictive to function so you definitely have a valid point there. It is all a trade-off that doesn't even out.

 

[JadedGray]

I had a terrible time finding a GP because of my mental health history even though I went off psych meds 5 years ago. Refusing to treat a patient's pain because of their mental health status is cruel. I was shocked they couldn't correlate untreated physical pain = more mental pain. I actually went to a clinic and laid my cards on the table for the GP and assertively stated "If you refuse to treat me for my physical condition, order proper testing, treat me as a person, not a number I may as well leave now. I have no quality of life and cannot waste more time with doctors who label me on my history. You'll either treat me or you won't." before we she'd even opened my file. (Admittedly I was nervous being so demanding with a physician and planned what I'd say - I was going to ctb if it didn't work.) She was actually glad I was so adamant about my care and never mentioned my mental health. She's still my GP now and discovered my degenerative disc disease.

It took years to find someone like her and I know all too well how improbable it is. You are treated as subhuman and dismissed. It's horrible and beyond unfair. That said, grass isn't always greener - I thought receiving proper care would truly help my ctb thoughts. Unfortunately, it just made me worse thinking "I can't do all of this! I don't even want to fight for life anyways. This didn't magically solve anything".

Plus, if I need Lorazepam for my seizures, I can't get it because the doctors refuse now to write an opioid with a benzo. One step forward, 10 steps back. I also loathe having to take something addictive to function so you definitely have a valid point there. It is all a trade-off that doesn't even out.

I envy your ability to be assertive. It's been difficult for me to be upfront with these doctors and be my own advocate. I'm glad, from the sounds of it, that you have been able to find a good GP.

I know how you feel in regards to being too tired to fight anymore. I've been seeing a Naturopath and have been having the same problem with trying to motivate myself to do everything I can to get better. I've suffered so much pain for so long, and I now feel defeated, despite her help.

That's another problem with suffering from concurrent chronic pain. You have to worry about drug interactions. I had to suffer from IBS-C for 8 years because I was taking a medication for Endometriosis that caused gallstones and had to have my gallbladder removed. Luckily now, I've been in "remission" for 1 year and hope that it won't come back. It seemed the Endometriosis exacerbated it, and now that, that's under control, the IBS-C seems to be too.

I'm sorry for how you've had to suffer and hope that you can find peace one day.

 

[Walilamdzi]

I have like 80 of these, so I'm wondering..