Large petition and websites to close this website

[Nanami]

How it will make them feel better, or how it differs from pro-lifes who speak against suicide who have no intentions of actually helping?

I'm not saying this is or isn't different from the hypothetical situation I proposed earlier. I'm not saying what is wrong or what isn't.
My question was rather straightforward, but it could be generalized without losing its intended meaning: Why should I put the interests of other people above my own?

I meant to ask how it differs. I understood your question, it's just that I wanted to put it in the context of this thread. Personally I feel they are very similar mindsets.
Whether you should or shouldn't put others interests above you isn't really something that I feel I can answer. There isn't really a simple answer for that.

 

[BipolarGuy]

...Why should I put the interests of other people above my own?

If you possess a mathematical bent, you may be interested in reading the mathematical analysis of altruism - mathematical analysis, not opinion or politically biased conjecture.
It's suprising stuff, but humans are far too crooked to focus on others partly because you will always have at least one who tries to take advantage.

 

[Mellowmood]

This is your first post on this site and you want to keep a copy of it? Why?

Why not just go back and look at things on it when you want to? It's not going anywhere.

Idk I saw a lot of forum get taken down by feds but thankfully some people kept backup, everything is ephemeral and I like to backup things I like

 

[262653]

I meant to ask how it differs. I understood your question, it's just that I wanted to put it in the context of this thread. Personally I feel they are very similar mindsets.

I see. Then I think it doesn't differ. That doesn't necessarily mean that anything that goes against the intention of a young person to ctb won't be useful for that person. I think there is a difference between shaming another person to change their mind and offering practical solutions to the problems of another person, including the pros and cons of that solution... But it's quite tricky, because the person who gives advice doesn't necessarily has the knowledge of the situation of that young person, it's not always clear if these advice will be more helpful than harmful, if the critical information about advice wasn't omitted (intentionally or not) etc..

 

[Meditation guide]

I keep a copy of the links in the resources section locally since the site has gone down maybe 3 times while I've been a member. I also have screenshots of some of the megathread OPs (e.g. Stan's guide). People should consider doing this.

I know how to drink the goop.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

It really doesn't matter if you're suicidal and 25 years old, 40 years old or 70. What matters is your determination. Do you want to die? If so, why? Is your wish to die persistent? Is there anything that could possibly ease your struggle? Those are questions that matter. Age is irrelevant.

Respectfully, what matters is the right to choose.

Easing one's struggle to act on their determination to suicide? That's stepping into pro-suicide territory in light of the first sentence and that what's being discussed is younger members, and that some of them may be underage. Those two things were, I believe the primary focus along with addressing another member.

Age is irrelevant on this site. There shouldn't be any handling with kid gloves of any member based on age, nor targeting because of age. We're all adults. If someone isn't, they shouldn't be here. I applaud that @Emily_Numb has that stance, but I often am uncomfortable with how she goes about it. I learned myself with behind-the-scenes correction that there is a better way to call it out that doesn't harm, but I also empathize that staff contributes to frustration when they don't quickly step up to protect the forum from any kind of infiltration, whether minors, predators, aggressive anti-choicers, or trolls. I'm quite wary of having received multiple comments from staff to go easier on younger members and underage infiltrators just because they're young. It's getting creepy up in here, and gives credence to the accusation that the site targets minors for suicide.

I like that @RainAndSadness stepped in and spoke up, but I am troubled by the pro-suicide stance that slipped in. This is exactly the kind of thing that is making me uneasy. I applaud speaking to @Emily_Numb, but as a mod, it should have been done behind the scenes so that mods don't wield power against members such as public shaming. Bad juju.

I suggest any issues about younger members can be remedied by staff and members treating all members as equal adults, worthy of equal consideration and respect, and quickly kicking out anyone who is a clearly a minor. It harms the forum when we have to be on high alert to not contribute to the suicide of a minor.



@Emily_Numb, I don't agree that person was for certain a minor in displaying her ctb outfits, if I did, I would stand with you. It momentarily raised my concern to read it, but I also recall @Moonicide taking great care to choose her ctb outfit and she was in her late 20s. It's something a high schooler might do, or a young woman in college, or a married woman, or someone with BPD like you, or a narcissist, or anyone who has no disorder and just wants to look nice for their final moment alive, or for whoever finds their body. If it ends up you are right about that person, it's evidence, but the ends don't justify the harsh means. I've had to learn that myself, and it was uncomfortable for a minute, so I'm speaking to you as a peer, not up on a high horse. If you don't agree, meh. I can ignore. I can report.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Easing one's struggle to act on their determination to suicide? That's stepping into pro-suicide territory in light of the first sentence and that what's being discussed is younger members, and that some of whom may be underage. That was the focus.

In what way is that pro-suicide? Maybe you should read exactly what I said in my post:

And just for clarification, I'm talking about adults too.

So in no way am I referring to underage people. I think I made myself very clear in that instance.

Age is irrelevant on this site. It's getting creepy up in here, and gives credence to the accusation that the site targets minors for suicide.

This website is clearly directed at adult members of society. Any underage people are banned on sight. That's how all members of staff are handling this policy.

I like that @RainAndSadness stepped in and spoke up, but I am troubled by the pro-suicide stance that slipped in. This is exactly the kind of thing that is making me uneasy.

With all due respect, what I said is pro-choice. I defended the choice of young adults to make decisions over their own life. This includes suicide. It also includes decisions to continue life, obviously. I never promoted or encouraged them to take their own life and if I did, please show me exactly where that happened. In my 2 years of activity, I never ever tolerated any kind of suicide encouragement and I said several times that suicide should be a last resort option, long before you were even a member in this forum. I can show you some of those posts if you'd like to see them. But don't throw easily debunkable accusations at me.

 

[Insertname1]

I read some comments on that petition, and they solely blame this website, noone here would force or encourage anyone to do anything, we just accept peoples views to want to ctb, if people really want to ctb then they will with or without this site, they have for thousands of years, and will continue to. We all have free will to choose what we want to do. I dont have to go to work but I choose to, I dont have to drink but I choose to, I dont have to live, but for right now I choose to. The factors of what makes people want to ctb are not this website, its whats going on in their lives.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

With all due respect, what I said is pro-choice. I defended the choice of young, adult people to make decisions over their own life. This includes suicide. I never promoted or encouraged them to take their own life and if I did, please show me exactly where that happened. In my 2 years of activity, I never ever tolerated suicide-encouragement and I said several times that suicide should be a last resort option, long before you were a member in this forum.

I respect the red flag I experienced when I read it in the entire context of the comment, as well as in the broader context of comments I've received from other mods about younger members.

I equally respect your right to defend yourself and to clarify.

 

[RainAndSadness]

I respect the red flag I experienced when I read it in the entire context of the comment, as well as in the broader context of comments I've received from other mods about younger members.

I equally respect your right to defend yourself and to clarify.

The "entire context of the comment" was someone downplaying struggles of young people, calling them 'edgy teenagers' and 'attention seekers'. That's what my comment is referring to. The struggles of those people are valid, so is their suicide ideation. So is mine because I am one of those young people. Again, implying that I used pro-suicide rhetoric is absurd, even more absurd is the subtle accusation that my post is referring to minors. Every single sentence of my post refereed to adults, so did the post of @Emily_Numb. The particular post I'm referring to right now has been deleted. That's the full context. Sorry, but you're reading things I've never written.

 

[BipolarGuy]

I have no idea what's happening in this thread anymore

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I think that the ambiguity of the term 'young people' is muddying things a little.
'Young people' can be interpreted as referring to underage people/under-18 teenagers.
Maybe 'young adults' would make it more clear that minors aren't being referred to.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

I respect the fact that mod said that age is irrelevant, we all have our own struggles, be they age-dependent or not.

The problem is that when we have young members on the forum and they raise a red flag by mentioning something about school for example (I concede, not the best example), we are left by our own accord playing detectives to see if they are above or under 18. If we assume that everyone is over 18, we risk having a "false positive" and fall exactly into the discourse that those other websites have like "targeting children, the vulnerable."

If we pry in any way about the age, problems, dilemmas etc. of young people, then members are called bullies, condescending etc.

So what are members supposed to do?

 

[Deleted member 4993]

I respect the fact that mod said that age is irrelevant, we all have our own struggles, be they age-dependent or not.

The problem is that when we have young members on the forum and they raise a red flag by mentioning something about school for example (I concede, not the best example), we are left by our own accord playing detectives to see if they are above or under 18. If we assume that everyone is over 18, we risk having a "false positive" and fall exactly into the discourse that those other websites have like "targeting children, the vulnerable."

If we pry in any way about the age, problems, dilemmas etc. of young people, then members are called bullies, condescending etc.

So what are members supposed to do?

If anything raises a red flag, use the Report button and pass it to the Mods is my advice

 

[262653]

I respect the fact that mod said that age is irrelevant, we all have our own struggles, be they age-dependent or not.

The problem is that when we have young members on the forum and they raise a red flag by mentioning something about school for example (I concede, not the best example), we are left by our own accord playing detectives to see if they are above or under 18. If we assume that everyone is over 18, we risk having a "false positive" and fall exactly into the discourse that those other websites have like "targeting children, the vulnerable."

If we pry in any way about the age, problems, dilemmas etc. of young people, then members are called bullies, condescending etc.

So what are members supposed to do?

Why do you think there is a legal threshold here (or anywhere)? I think it's here to preserve the forum. (Self-preservation.) With no such rule, the site is opened for legal attacks. It would be a weak point to exploit by those who wish to fight this website.

Supposedly I want to die, and to access the content of this site (method information), but I'm falling below 18 year threshold.
Why shouldn't I lie about my age, if I think it will make me feel better off, providing that the negative consequences of lying that might fall upon me, whatever they might be, are considered to be an acceptable risk for me (worth the potential benefits)?

What are actual 18+ members of this forum supposed to do with the notion that there might be members of this forum that are actually below the 18 year threshold? Is that what you meant? Did I understand your question correctly?

Why do you think it's the problem for actual 18+ members? Why do you think we are supposed to do something about it? It's not a rhetorical question. I'm really interested in your response. I for one, don't feel like I'm supposed to do anything. I don't feel myself responsible for someone lying about their age to access this website.

 

[SipSop]

Pro-lifers.

 

[Meditation guide]

Some here spend a lot of time pointing their finger at others, in an accusatory way. Best to not take the bait. They want you to argue and defend yourself.

 

[stankboy421]

I hate this hysterical shit. These people fail to realise that a great deal of people on this website use it for support and Frank discussion which cannot be had with people who are not in the same mindset. I dare say that this website may actually save lives. I personally find it extremely comforting to browse and engage here, I often feel MORE hopeful about life after spending time here simply through the affirmation that my experience is shared. Sometimes just exploring the concept of suicide is enough to "satisfy" the urge to do it. Like a nicotine patch for a smoker.

These petitions are a crock of shit. I came across one yesterday when I was searching for the new address for this site and it made me feel really attacked and ashamed, and I just had to share my feelings about it. Is that what they want us to feel???? Small and inferior and judged??? To take away our one support system???? Bloody idiots who think they know our lives and minds better than we do.

It seems like the ultimate form of entitlement when they feel entitled to our own life. It is no different to somebody feeling entitled to murder, IMO.

 

[existtosuffer]

Noticed this petition today is at over 10k now. That NYT article must have drawn more attention, considering it was only at 8k two years ago.

 

[D&D]

Noticed this petition today is at over 10k now. That NYT article must have drawn more attention, considering it was only at 8k two years ago.

NYT's article certainly drew heaps of attention - it was its primary, if not only purpose. Which papers do. The problem was/is that NYT flat refused to give any kind of consideration, let alone voice, to the 'other side.' However controversial subject might be, when no dialogue is permitted - the overall view remines one-sided. It also gives impression that the 'other side' is not capable of engaging in a rational, reasoned dialogue. It confirms age-old prejudice - suicidal are irrational freaks ... 'the children of a lesser god.'

Making a 'grand gestures' such as stirring up hysteria to close this or other similar places, if there are any, only serves to make those behind those efforts feel better. About themselves. Which is why they refuse to hear anything at all about the helpful, positive impact the forum can have through peer-to-peer support, especially given the absence of alternatives and the state of mental health services in many countries.