Discussion KCN vs SN for ctb

[INTJme]

I have easy access to both KCN (Potassium Cyanide) and SN (Sodium Nitrite) and have been wondering which method to choose. While there's a lot of literature and anecdotal data here on SN, there's hardly any for KCN even though it's more efficient–that's my understanding at least. Now I'm torn between the two methods.

While there are detailed protocols here available for SN, there isn't for KCN. Pardon my ignorance if there is and I couldn't find it. Can someone point me in the right direction if that's the case?

Here's a little comparison between the two methods based on my limited understanding. Any informed inputs will be highly appreciated.

Pros for CN:
More efficient: Almost a certainty and much quicker
Requires lesser prep (less quantity, no need for antacid?, not sure about needing anti-emetic or beta-blockers either. Please correct me if I'm wrong)
Easier to carry (as I plan on taking it internationally and ctb there in a hotel room)

Cons:
Burns your tongue/mouth
If unsuccessful, it'll ruin your body
Debatable if it causes a more violent end (there is so much contradicting info out there)

Pros for SN:
Lots of literature here
Won't burn your mouth lol but isn't candy-like either
If unsuccessful, doesn't ruin your body

Cons:
Need to buy at least 1 kilo, so not really travel-friendly
Not as efficient, both in terms of success rate and time taken
Lots of prep required to make it convenient

What are your thoughts on this list? Informed suggestions highly appreciated.

 

[Goku Black]

Need to buy at least 1 kilo,

Who told you that?

Lots of prep required to make it convenient

Every method requires lots of prep because it might as well be since it's the last thing you'll probably do so may as well go all the way with as much prep as possible to make close to certain that you've minimized the chances of failure.

 

[INTJme]

Who told you that?

What I meant was that's the minimum amount sellers are offering; I know I'll need much less. So carrying and storing it becomes an inconvenience.

Every method requires lots of prep because it might as well be since it's the last thing you'll probably do so may as well go all the way with as much prep as possible to make close to certain that you've minimized the chances of failure.

I understand that. But my main motive was to do a comparison between the two methods. Surely, KCN is at least as efficient as SN when it comes to success rate if not more.

I just wanted to know if I'm missing something in my analysis or if I'm mistaken about some of the pros/cons I've listed.

 

[UKscotty]

Same with any method, you need to determine your own criteria.

Some people want low physical pain with methods like pentobarbital or CO.

Others want low emotional pain with methods like h2s or suspension hanging.

Some want both with something like jumping.

If you want quicker, then KCN will win over SN all the time. If you want less physical pain then SN, if you want less emotional pain then KCN as you will be unconscious much faster.

It's too hard to objectively evaluate a method as different people want different things. It's misleading to do side by side comparison without knowing what the person wants from their CTB method.

 

[INTJme]

Ingesting is definitely my method of choice. Unlike other methods, it just feels so natural.
In the order of priority what I really want is:

1. Certainty
2. Lower physical pain
3. Lower emotional pain

You mention there's less physical pain with SN compared to KCN. Why do you say so? Apart from the ingesting bit, I'd assume the lesser duration of consciousness could compensate for the relatively prolonged retching, vomitting and tachycardia that comes with SN. I understand these are also a factor with KCN, but only for a fraction of the time.

They are so closely matched tbf, I think I'll eventually end up doing a coin toss lol.

 

[アホペンギン]

Ingesting is definitely my method of choice. Unlike other methods, it just feels so natural.

Be aware that you'll experience burning of the throat if you take anything more than 1.5grams in a glass of water.

 

[INTJme]

Be aware that you'll experience burning of the throat if you take anything more than 1.5grams in a glass of water.

Yes, that too! Unless I buy a precision scale, it'll be so difficult to "eyeball" it. You definitely don't wanna go too low but don't wanna be going too high either!

Also, I plan on taking an anti-emetic beforehand just in case. Would love it if someone could comment if it's safe to do so or even necessary.

 

[Goku Black]

Why do you say so? Apart from the ingesting bit, I'd assume the lesser duration of consciousness could compensate for the relatively prolonged retching, vomitting and tachycardia that comes with SN. I understand these are also a factor with KCN, but only for a fraction of the time

Tachycardia is still possible with Potassium Cyanide so cardiovascular disruption will be more prominent than with sn which may take a little longer, it sounds like you're trying to go for the speed of KCN in order to quicken the process to death, I don't know how that compensates for the prolonged retching, vomitting and tachycardia with sn when the process in which these happen for everyone isn't uniform however good luck with everything going forward.

 

[INTJme]

it sounds like you're trying to go for the speed of KCN in order to quicken the process to death,

Yes, I'm a fan of KCN's speed as well as success ratio. I don't want someone accidentally saving me or even my own SI creating problems for me. In that regard, its speed does appeal to me more than the other ingestibles out there.

 

[Goku Black]

Yes, I'm a fan of KCN's speed as well as success ratio. I don't want someone accidentally saving me or even my own SI creating problems for me

Hmm I see, and this way, achieve quicker results by shortening the window to be saved by subtracting the time to unconsciousness it would usually take with SN by quite a bit with KCN, I can understand your approach plus I get it too, SNs antidote is more well known even if ambulances don't regularly carry it, with the only thing they can do in the case of sn poisoning is to keep the individual alive long enough to receive critical care although it's not always straightforward like that however comparatively, SN is on the easier side of symptoms but with the issue being time lost to unconsciousness which some have compensated by using a sedative while KCN has a quicker onset of symptoms and a generally more effective way to ctb but at the cost of pain.

 

[rozeske]

I would choose SN. The said painfulness of cyanide scares me more than the symptoms of sn and it's related anxiety.

 

[INTJme]

Hmm I see, and this way, achieve quicker results by shortening the window to be saved by subtracting the time to unconsciousness it would usually take with SN by quite a bit with KCN, I can understand your approach plus I get it too, SNs antidote is more well known even if ambulances don't regularly carry it, with the only thing they can do in the case of sn poisoning is to keep the individual alive long enough to receive critical care although it's not always straightforward like that however comparatively, SN is on the easier side of symptoms but with the issue being time lost to unconsciousness which some have compensated by using a sedative while KCN has a quicker onset of symptoms and a generally more effective way to ctb but at the cost of pain.

Exactly.

The pain is going to be short-term though. The perfect recipe would've involved getting my hands on a strong acid and inhaling hydrogen cyanide gas but it'll be nearly impossible to find that in a foreign country.

 

[Goku Black]

Exactly.

The pain is going to be short-term though. The perfect recipe would've involved getting my hands on a strong acid and inhaling hydrogen cyanide gas but it'll be nearly impossible to find that in a foreign country.

Ok I see, I once tried to get sodium cyanide before even joining the forum but it's a controlled substance so no dice.

 

[INTJme]

I would choose SN. The said painfulness of cyanide scares me more than the symptoms of sn and it's related anxiety.

I personally believe one wouldn't spend much time in the anxious state with KCN because it's so fast! SN is where I worry about anxiety more because it takes too long for my liking to become unconscious. With KCN, I even don't mind getting a cardiac arrest as long as I become unconscious soon after and things end once and for all.

Ok I see, I once tried to get sodium cyanide before even joining the forum but it's a controlled substance so no dice.

I first tried getting it almost 12 years ago and was unlucky. But thanks to the immense growth of online marketplaces over these years, it's become much easier here.

 

[mayhem]

I have easy access to both KCN (Potassium Cyanide) and SN (Sodium Nitrite)

yo how do you have easy access to KCN? unless it's related to your profession, i can't see how that would be the case. or maybe it's easily accessible in the country that you live in but it's heavily restricted where i live so idk. but i would definitely choose KCN over SN since it seems quicker and way more reliable.

 

[INTJme]

yo how do you have easy access to KCN? unless it's related to your profession, i can't see how that would be the case. or maybe it's easily accessible in the country that you live in but it's heavily restricted where i live so idk. but i would definitely choose KCN over SN since it seems quicker and way more reliable.

SN is easily available here and even thiopental! Pretty sure KCN can be found too if I look hard enough but having bought thiopental now, I no longer have the motivation to.

 

[hellotherepeeps]

I have easy access to both KCN (Potassium Cyanide) and SN (Sodium Nitrite) and have been wondering which method to choose. While there's a lot of literature and anecdotal data here on SN, there's hardly any for KCN even though it's more efficient–that's my understanding at least. Now I'm torn between the two methods.

While there are detailed protocols here available for SN, there isn't for KCN. Pardon my ignorance if there is and I couldn't find it. Can someone point me in the right direction if that's the case?

Here's a little comparison between the two methods based on my limited understanding. Any informed inputs will be highly appreciated.

Pros for CN:
More efficient: Almost a certainty and much quicker
Requires lesser prep (less quantity, no need for antacid?, not sure about needing anti-emetic or beta-blockers either. Please correct me if I'm wrong)
Easier to carry (as I plan on taking it internationally and ctb there in a hotel room)

Cons:
Burns your tongue/mouth
If unsuccessful, it'll ruin your body
Debatable if it causes a more violent end (there is so much contradicting info out there)

Pros for SN:
Lots of literature here
Won't burn your mouth lol but isn't candy-like either
If unsuccessful, doesn't ruin your body

Cons:
Need to buy at least 1 kilo, so not really travel-friendly
Not as efficient, both in terms of success rate and time taken
Lots of prep required to make it convenient

What are your thoughts on this list? Informed suggestions highly appreciated.

can you tell me of the source for SN ? I am in canada