It is unethical to have kids given the state of our world

[Darkover]

is it even morally right to have a child?

IMO it is always morally wrong to have a child.

Even if you are of the opinion that there is more good than bad in this world, we have an obligation not to bring harm to others, we have no obligation to bring them happiness.

Children never ask to be created, they are always created due to the whims of their parents. Creating a thinking and feeling being, with the knowledge that there is no certainty you can provide or protect it, is wrong.

if the child ends up hating life on the whole, then it will turn out that producing them was wrong.

I'm a firm proponent of "don't have kids if you can't afford kids" which imo is not controversial. It's not eugenics. It's exactly the same as "You shouldn't get x animal if you can't provide y enclosure"

is it really moral to have children? People argue about the morality of abortion and suicide yet they never stop to think about the fact that a child is forcefully brought into existence. The child is then forced to follow the doctrines of their parents and gain whatever schooling they can.

If it is considered immoral and selfish to forcefully take one's life (i.e. murder or suicide) then why is it considered moral to forcefully give life? There is no permission given to parents, they selfishly bring a child into existence. Not everyone wants to exist.

Why do people celebrate the birth of babies when all they have to look forward to is the drudgery of school, college, and jobs?

I find it difficult to celebrate the fact that another human is subjected to the prison sentence that is this capitalistic life. It feels disingenuous to congratulate someone for becoming pregnant, as everyone else does.

Life is far from perfect. Pain, suffering, and indifference are not only common but guaranteed. Plus when we consider that work takes up the vast majority of our waking hours, it's hard to imagine why we would willingly subject someone else to this kind of existence.

I think it's important to acknowledge that the challenges of life are real and that not everyone will have the same positive experiences. In my view, life is 33% sleep, 40-50% work, and the rest is recreation/pleasure - and that's not a ratio worth celebrating.

I don't mean to be too negative, but I would rather congratulate someone for getting a vasectomy or hysterectomy. By doing so, they're giving their potential child the best gift possible - avoiding the struggles and hardships that come with living in this world.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree. Procreation doesn't solve any issues that it hasn't first created

 

[The Schizoid]

I'm never having kids. I'd be a terrible parent. I have no interest in children.

I personally am not sure if I'm a complete Anti Natalist yet, because it seems extreme that we would believe that the only way to deal with this problem is to just go extinct altogether.

If you're not having kids in the hope that it will contribute to an anti-natalist world, you're going to be disappointed. Much of the world is still anti-abortion, poor people are still having tonnes of kids.

I think it's immoral to have kids if you aren't sure you can provide a good life.

That being said it's never guaranteed someone has a good life despite a healthy upbringing. This is why assisted suicide should be legal because you shouldn't be imprisoned into a reality you did not consent to coming into in the first place.

 

[SadLad]

I'm depressed as fuck but honestly having a child to look after is at least momentarily stopping me from CTB.

 

[Pluto]

The problem as I see it is that people should be making decisions based on a solid understanding of what they are getting themselves into.

And yet, the many parents who confess that they regret having children (even though in most cases they do love their children) are largely censored and tabooed by society.

One could also argue that people are asked to consider the environment when choosing whether to recycle an aluminium can, yet the question does not arise when bringing an entire being who will be consuming resources for the next 100 years. (I say 100 because human lifespans are increasing constantly. It could well be 120 for people born today, in theory.)

 

[R_N]

There is no state that is "ethical" in my opinion.

It sounds extreme but so is nature. To live is to devour to survive and beings interacting with one another is bound to create pain in other ways too.

There are moments where beings experience pleasure but all that leads to is more craving and more pain in the long run.

It is a bottomless pit.

 

[sserafim]

There is no state that is "ethical" in my opinion.

It sounds extreme but so is nature. To live is to devour to survive and beings interacting with one another is bound to create pain in other ways too.

There are moments where beings experience pleasure but all that leads to is more craving and more pain in the long run.

It is a bottomless pit.

Why do you think that nature is so cruel?

 

[The Schizoid]

Why do you think that nature is so cruel?

Nature is not cruel. Nature is life and life is designed to survive.

 

[sserafim]

Nature is not cruel. Nature is life and life is designed to survive.

Yeah but to survive in nature, animals have to literally fight, kill and eat other living beings…seems pretty cruel to me. We also have to kill and eat other living beings.

 

[The Schizoid]

Yeah but to survive in nature, animals have to literally fight, kill and eat other living beings…seems pretty cruel to me. We also have to kill and eat other living beings.

True but death can be painful in other ways without being killed.

Being killed by a crocodile is excruciating for about 3 minutes. Dying of a terminal illness can be excruciating for months.

But we may experience beauty before that happens. The pain/suffering may just be the cost of admission. But unfortunately some people get unlucky and experience way more suffering than peace.

 

[R_N]

I don't disagree with anything both of you said so it would just be me explaining my wording.

 

[FuneralCry]

I find it disgusting how many humans so harmfully and cruelly decide to procreate even know there is literally no limit as to how much agony one can feel in this existence. All that those who procreate do is create unnecessary suffering and torment, it's tragic to me how this repulsive species hasn't gone voluntarily extinct yet.

 

[divinemistress36]

People are run by their hormones and emotions . It's not logical to procreate but they do it anyways cause of the stupid biological drive

 

[Adûnâi]

Why do you think that nature is so cruel?

Because the creator god is a sick sadistic mentally-deranged psychopath.

Good question, unironically. If one doesn't want all life to end, he's either sadistic, or retarded. Incidentally, this is why I don't consider genocide and slavery to be evil - having kids is effectively worse than paedophilia, everything about life is vile and abominable, what's the point singling things out? If you're not gonna kill yourself, might as well go with the Nietzschean "yea to life".

 

[FloodedForest]

I brought two girls into this world and I don't regret it. Sure we don't have an exciting life as much as I'd like them to have, and we have our struggles, but no child is born depressed or anxious.
As a parent, I feel it's my job now to protect them from ever feeling how I turned out, until everything gets on top of me.

I have loving parents and family who tell me they love me, even if I feel like the disappointment in the family. I just wish they did more to help me growing up, and maybe I wouldn't think this way.

The world isn't a terrible place per say, but it can be a hella lot more scarier to some people and situations out of your own control.

 

[LunarCharm]

I agree. I was an accident.
don't have kids if you don't want them.
don't have kids if you can't afford them.

 

[Meteora]

Don't think it is unethical. It's just so much harder to raise a child in this society than it was 40 years ago. It requires a lot more of the parents and I believe, many fail because it is almost inhumane what parents should do.

 

[theboy]

True

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Yes it's unethical, but there's fuck all to do on this planet except create more people it seems. I think it's about control, you make a new person and you get to control them for ~18 years and parents get off on that. I'm convinced they see their kids as their own property to a certain extent.

 

[Onomatopoeia]

Nature is not cruel.

This warthog would like a word with you.

 

[wastingpotential]

i don't expect any generation past gen Z to live past their twenties or less normally given the state of our climate and whatnot. don't get me fucking started on basic human rights that most people in charge still think of as a 'political debate'

 

[uniqueusername4]

I personally believe it is unethical to have children. You can't ask someone's consent for them to come into this world. I would've preferred to not have existed.

It is definitely unethical to have children when we know they are bound for a terrible life such as we have as slaves to capitalism.

 

[divinemistress36]

This warthog would like a word with you.

This is so sad

 

[Onomatopoeia]

This is so sad

Look at how skinny the cubs are. Those lions were starving. Sad that the warthog was the food. But with no guns, no missiles, and no bombs, that's nature.

 

[divinemistress36]

Look at how skinny the cubs are. Those lions were starving. Sad that the warthog was the food. But with no guns, no missiles, and no bombs, that's nature.

That's true its the sound of the warthog was horrific but it's nature. I kind of wish I would get eaten to death

 

[Onomatopoeia]

That's true its the sound of the warthog was horrific but it's nature. I kind of wish I would get eaten to death

You absolutely do not wish you were eaten to death like that. Look at that warthog. Its guts are hanging out, it is being ripped apart, and somehow it is still alive and screaming. That is the worst death ever. And it happens to humans daily, except it is just for fun and not survival and eating like the lions. This whole world is f*d up.

 

[sceáwere]

I believe most people here have hereditary mental illnesses, so breeding a child as dysgenic as you to suffer just as much as you (likely even more due to you having to settle for a very dysgenic spouse in order to compensate for your own low value) would very much be immoral from a utilitarian point of view.

 

[Justnotme]

This warthog would like a word with you.

The nature of this world is the most vile and cruel thing that can be in the universe. The universe is a real nasty and cruel bastard that I would destroy without even thinking about it.

I thought that animals first clamp the carotid arteries with their fangs, then gnaw through them so that the victim dies before being eaten.
It's horrible.

This whole place is cruelty and filth.

 

[The Schizoid]

This warthog would like a word with you.

How is this cruel?

The lions aren't doing this because they enjoy seeing the Warthog suffer. Animals don't torture each other, they kill each other for food, territory, to protect themselves or their young, or just out of fear in general.

 

[Darkover]

How is this cruel?

most animals die by being eaten alive it's pure evil if you can't see that then there is something wrong with you maybe a psychopath
how would you like it it were you being eaten alive