Discussion Is there a way we can create leverage for our cause ?

[GuppyBoyo]

Through the use of force, words, anything ?

 

[MathConspiracy]

I wish we could organize a giant demonstration! This would probably work for the Americans among us only, sadly.

Force – it's never an option although it feels cathartic to think about. However, if 999 in 1000 are pro-lifers, it's almost impossible for us to be heard. Don't get me wrong, I'm ready to verbally fight for our cause, we just need enough people to do so.

 

[ForeverCaHa]

I guess that would depend on how many people here see themselves as united under a common 'cause'. For me personally this site is a means to an end, nothing more nothing less. I admit it's probably selfish of me, but I'm less interested in the politics of suicide or having suicide be accessible to others, and more interested in securing the information I myself need to end my own life. Beyond that - and I may be in the minority here - I can 100% understand the people who are anti-suicide (the term 'anti-suicide' itself feels weird to me).

Personally I would prefer to see the conversation shift away from "Suicide Good vs Suicide Bad" and towards "What are the societal causes of suicidal ideation and how can we tackle them". That's of course a huge question and will vary from country to country, even differing within different regions of the same country. I'm not going to pretend to have the answers to that question, but if society wants to reduce suicide levels, it's something the powers that be have to consider. Whether or not we trust said powers to act responsibly and address the issue properly... Well, that's another issue altogether.

 

[GuppyBoyo]

I guess that would depend on how many people here see themselves as united under a common 'cause'. For me personally this site is a means to an end, nothing more nothing less. I admit it's probably selfish of me, but I'm less interested in the politics of suicide or having suicide be accessible to others, and more interested in securing the information I myself need to end my own life. Beyond that - and I may be in the minority here - I can 100% understand the people who are anti-suicide (the term 'anti-suicide' itself feels weird to me).

Personally I would prefer to see the conversation shift away from "Suicide Good vs Suicide Bad" and towards "What are the societal causes of suicidal ideation and how can we tackle them". That's of course a huge question and will vary from country to country, even differing within different regions of the same country. I'm not going to pretend to have the answers to that question, but if society wants to reduce suicide levels, it's something the powers that be have to consider. Whether or not we trust said powers to act responsibly and address the issue properly... Well, that's another issue altogether.

interesting so you'd rather folks not have the ability to reject intervention even if it's effective ?

I wish we could organize a giant demonstration! This would probably work for the Americans among us only, sadly.

Force – it's never an option although it feels cathartic to think about. However, if 999 in 1000 are pro-lifers, it's almost impossible for us to be heard. Don't get me wrong, I'm ready to verbally fight for our cause, we just need enough people to do so.

we can do something more than demonstrations, maybe cause some ruckus around the world ?

 

[MathConspiracy]

we can do something more than demonstrations, maybe cause some ruckus around the world ?

What kind of ruckus? I really get you, I fucking despise the pro-lifers too, but if we cause any damage, they'll see us as a bigger threat. They already see us as a threat to human life. I'd say that increasing the right-to-die online presence would be good but anti-choicers will censor literally everything.

I really like idea of a peaceful demonstration. Lots of suicidal people on their final march. The question is, where should this be held? Maybe people on this site could really organize this. I stand with you, GuppyBoyo.

 

[JesiBel]

It's complicated, it's still difficult to make those around us understand why everyone should be free to choose when and how to die. I see it as impossible to convince the entire population or society; each individual's beliefs/religion will always oppose it.

Perhaps in the farewell note, if we all mention our desire for suicide to be a right, a painless and peaceful process... it might open people's eyes a little. Because people are going to keep committing suicide no matter what.

I believe no change can be achieved peacefully. Perhaps society should see firsthand what each of the available methods looks like. This way of thinking is horrible, but perhaps a little shock would change their mindset. Or at least I think it would make them shut up about saying that it is an act of "weak or cowardly people."

 

[GuppyBoyo]

What kind of ruckus? I really get you, I fucking despise the pro-lifers too, but if we cause any damage, they'll see us as a bigger threat. They already see us as a threat to human life. I'd say that increasing the right-to-die online presence would be good but anti-choicers will censor literally everything.

I really like idea of a peaceful demonstration. Lots of suicidal people on their final march. The question is, where should this be held? Maybe people on this site could really organize this. I stand with you, GuppyBoyo.

maybe if we cause enough damage they'll have no choice but to concede,

but perhaps demonstrations could work too, but wouldn't that makes easier to capture and institutionalize ?

It's complicated, it's still difficult to make those around us understand why everyone should be free to choose when and how to die. I see it as impossible to convince the entire population or society; each individual's beliefs/religion will always oppose it.

Perhaps in the farewell note, if we all mention our desire for suicide to be a right, a painless and peaceful process... it might open people's eyes a little. Because people are going to keep committing suicide no matter what.

I believe no change can be achieved peacefully. Perhaps society should see firsthand what each of the available methods looks like. This way of thinking is horrible, but perhaps a little shock would change their mindset. Or at least I think it would make them shut up about saying that it is an act of "weak or cowardly people."

maybe we can make them loose more than whatever they're getting by forcing us to stay

 

[MathConspiracy]

but perhaps demonstrations could work too, but wouldn't that makes easier to capture and institutionalize ?

That's the risk we gotta take. I know it's a bit like shouting "hey, here's 1000 suicidal people for you, come and get us", but they can't get us all, right? We have the right to an opinion. Suicide is not a crime, they can't arrest us merely for that. That's why I suggest that this hypothetical demonstration would be kept ABSOLUTELY peaceful.

Perhaps society should see firsthand what each of the available methods looks like. This way of thinking is horrible, but perhaps a little shock would change their mindset. Or at least I think it would make them shut up about saying that it is an act of "weak or cowardly people."

What about publicly showing them videos from WPD? Those are horrible. And it'd still perhaps count towards a "peaceful revolution".

 

[Ijustcantanymore]

Imo, the first things needed for a society to even think about embracing our inherent right to choose, is to get rid of religion.

Religion is the biggest opposition to suicide. The whole "life is sacred" bullshit that they latch into like a newborn to a teat. As long as religion is around and brainwashing the masses, this won't change.

Second up is capitalism. One of the worst things to ever happen to humanity. We are the only species that has to pay to live here in the first place. But capitalism requires bodies to feed the machine. Allowing suicide would hurt and reduce the slave work force. Which means less of that worthless money that everyone worships. Can't have that.

Power. If society allowed suicide and people could witness how many more people would opt to leave, society would have to review itself. Ask itself hard questions. And possibly reform itself. That doesn't bode well for the people in power. They don't want anything that challenges our current system of living.

Those 3 things are our biggest barriers to a society that ""gives"" (no one can give it. It's inherent to our very existence) people the freedom to choose.

 

[Halfhourdays]

interesting so you'd rather folks not have the ability to reject intervention even if it's effective ?

we can do something more than demonstrations, maybe cause some ruckus around the world ?

Okay, Mr. Durden, are you trying to organize a Suicide Squad?

 

[Foolishness]

I believe no change can be achieved peacefully. Perhaps society should see firsthand what each of the available methods looks like. This way of thinking is horrible, but perhaps a little shock would change their mindset. Or at least I think it would make them shut up about saying that it is an act of "weak or cowardly people."

From what I can tell, people like to complain about disruptive/gruesome methods when they occur, but their occurrence doesn't lead them to think about the right to die and allowing people to exit peacefully. If anything, it makes them feel more negatively towards it.

 

[Meatismoz]

Imo, the first things needed for a society to even think about embracing our inherent right to choose, is to get rid of religion.

Religion is the biggest opposition to suicide. The whole "life is sacred" bullshit that they latch into like a newborn to a teat. As long as religion is around and brainwashing the masses, this won't change.

Second up is capitalism. One of the worst things to ever happen to humanity. We are the only species that has to pay to live here in the first place. But capitalism requires bodies to feed the machine. Allowing suicide would hurt and reduce the slave work force. Which means less of that worthless money that everyone worships. Can't have that.

Power. If society allowed suicide and people could witness how many more people would opt to leave, society would have to review itself. Ask itself hard questions. And possibly reform itself. That doesn't bode well for the people in power. They don't want anything that challenges our current system of living.

Those 3 things are our biggest barriers to a society that ""gives"" (no one can give it. It's inherent to our very existence) people the freedom to choose.

Bruh how was capitalism one of the worst things to happen to humanity it literally replaced feudalism and serfdom

 

[0bebe0]

I think we should deal with religions first, because many religions are anti-suicide.
Then some open convincing and persuasion. Some people can be helped by medication or therapy but some of them cannot and they shouldn't suffer. We need people to be open-minded, but many of them aren't

 

[RadiantNumber]

I think there are no way to convince people,especially those pro-life to this cause, here in Poland where I live they want to ban abortion even if it was because of rape so...

 

[JesiBel]

What about publicly showing them videos from WPD? Those are horrible. And it'd still perhaps count towards a "peaceful revolution".

Exactly, I was thinking something like that, or that the videos spread like a virus through the networks...

Accompanied by a message that summarizes why a dignified death should be within reach of everyone who desires it.

Although.. those kinds of disturbing videos are made by terrorists lol Sorry, sometimes I fantasize a lot.

After all, this is the cruel reality of what is happening: no one is going to stop committing suicide; it will continue to be done with whatever methods are available (painful, traumatic and horrible)

 

[RadiantNumber]

Also suicide is legal, you can't (I don't know how it looks in US) help with it, I mean legal, there is punishment if you fail you will. Go to mental hospital
Also here in Poland if you share information how to commit suicide you could also go to prison, there was one forum which author went to prison only because they discussed suicide, in US at least there is article protecting free speech (yet)

 

[Ijustcantanymore]

Bruh how was capitalism one of the worst things to happen to humanity it literally replaced feudalism and serfdom

It's slavery with extra steps.

And any system that depends on a class caste/hierarchy is bullshit right from the get go.

So much of capitalism's "success" is based on constant propaganda being fed to us. Even as things get actively worse in real time.

Capitalism breeds greed and malice because it's all about hoarding and exploiting people for money. It's abhorrent. And defending it at this point, is an indictment on people's character.

Plus, it's a completely unsustainable economic model. Especially the way the US is going about. So worship it all you like. It's not going to last forever and is not even close to the best humans can do. But go ahead, hoard your worthless paper lol. It won't save you from any of the inevitable.

 

[Meatismoz]

It's slavery with extra steps.

And any system that depends on a class caste/hierarchy is bullshit right from the get go.

So much of capitalism's "success" is based on constant propaganda being fed to us. Even as things get actively worse in real time.

Capitalism breeds greed and malice because it's all about hoarding and exploiting people for money. It's abhorrent. And defending it at this point, is an indictment on people's character.

Plus, it's a completely unsustainable economic model. Especially the way the US is going about. So worship it all you like. It's not going to last forever and is not even close to the best humans can do. But go ahead, hoard your worthless paper lol. It won't save you from any of the inevitable.

I'm not worshipping anything bro it just seems like a take with no analysis. Capitalism was a necessary transition from feudalism and led to great human progress. And humanity will probably eventually progress past it

I also think it's disrespectful to compare it to chattel slavery