Is it abuse if you are the boss/mentor

[hamvil]

I would like to have your opinion on this matter. There is this woman I loved very much and that left me when my job crashed down. From my side I felt like she used me and dropped me when I was not useful anymore. I have spoken about here in other post.

There is however another side to this story. She was initially an intern under my supervision and then I hired her to be part of my team. We were lovers and I wanted to have her next to me. She was not very good at her job tbh and the other colleagues did notice this. I guess they suspect why she was hired.

During our relationship we introduced several extreme BDSM games in our sex life. She was always the sub and I the master. She allowed herself to be humiliated and beaten.

Recently a person (a woman) without even knowing about the BDSM part told me that I essentially raped her for two years because she needed a job and I gave it to her in exchange for sexual services. Is this really the case? Tbh I feel the opposite, meaning that she used sex to get benefits and when I was not able anymore to provide them she left.

 

[jodes2]

Ignore them. It sounds like it was overall a give-and-take relationship, it's just coincidence you were her boss and did BDSM

 

[hamvil]

Ignore them. It sounds like it was overall a give-and-take relationship, it's just coincidence you were her boss and did BDSM

I actually interpreted her willingness to look so "naked" during our BDSM things was a show of love. Those activity create a unique level of intimacy especially when you do things like breath-play where you literally put your life in the hands of another person.

 

[exitsimulation]

I actually interpreted her willingness to look so "naked" during our BDSM things was a show of love. Those activity create a unique level of intimacy especially when you do things like breath-play where you literally put your life in the hands of another person.

i fucking love breathplay lol i swear to god i need to fucking get laid before i ctb...

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

i fucking love breathplay lol i swear to god i need to fucking get laid before i ctb...

The absolute state of this forum.

I would like to have your opinion on this matter. There is this woman I loved very much and that left me when my job crashed down. From my side I felt like she used me and dropped me when I was not useful anymore. I have spoken about here in other post.

There is however another side to this story. She was initially an intern under my supervision and then I hired her to be part of my team. We were lovers and I wanted to have her next to me. She was not very good at her job tbh and the other colleagues did notice this. I guess they suspect why she was hired.

During our relationship we introduced several extreme BDSM games in our sex life. She was always the sub and I the master. She allowed herself to be humiliated and beaten.

Recently a person (a woman) without even knowing about the BDSM part told me that I essentially raped her for two years because she needed a job and I gave it to her in exchange for sexual services. Is this really the case? Tbh I feel the opposite, meaning that she used sex to get benefits and when I was not able anymore to provide them she left.

Well, these are two separate matters. The first one seemed to have been a regular modern relationship (hypergamy, use and discard, porn-sex, serial monogamy-ish, etc).

The second case might be illegal, depending on where you live, but I have no good knowledge of legal matters. Don't think it would be rape (legally speaking), since (according to you, at least) it was a consensual transaction. So, this sounds more like prostitution.

 

[lofticries]

I mean was she into the whole bdsm aspect of the relationship?

 

[hamvil]

I mean was she into the whole bdsm aspect of the relationship?

It looked like she was all the way in. Not sure if she felt pressured to say yes to many things because I was her boss. Some role play games where bases precisely on me blackmailing her into doing things or she would lose her job. They were agreed before and we had proper aftercare after, but..

She would also forget to use the safeword or the gesture sometimes which made me think I could continue with the abuse beyond her limits.

 

[Girl-shaped Wound]

I don't know about rape, but...
Was she first your intern before she became your lover? I think that this is the bad part since you had power over her. It's not a good situation to mix sex with work, especially when the parties are not on the same level. It's unprofessional at best and unethical at worst. Just look at Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky.

It looked like she was all the way in. Not sure if she felt pressured to say yes to many things because I was her boss. Some role play games where bases precisely on me blackmailing her into doing things or she would lose her job. They were agreed before and we had proper aftercare after, but..

She would also forget to use the safeword or the gesture sometimes which made me think I could continue with the abuse beyond her limits.

She would "forget" to safeword? That doesn't sound right. Like she wasn't in her right mind for one reason or another.
To put it mildly, it doesn't sound good, to be honest – actually abusive and not safe, sane and consensual.
That is my opinion based on what you said.

 

[hamvil]

I don't know about rape, but...
Was she first your intern before she became your lover? I think that this is the bad part since you had power over her. It's not a good situation to mix sex with work, especially when the parties are not on the same level. It's unprofessional at best and unethical at worst. Just look at Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky.

She was not my lover before. She was first my intern. In retrospective it looks like she used sex as a way to get better treatment and the job. So it is more like prostitution than abuse.

She would "forget" to safeword? That doesn't sound right. Like she wasn't in her right mind for one reason or another.
To put it mildly, it doesn't sound good, to be honest – actually abusive and not safe, sane and consensual.
That is my opinion based on what you said.

After she would always say that it was fine and that she felt good. I think if it was not consensual she would has said that in that moment. Moreover she would do it again after a while as well.

 

[Life_and_Death]

She would "forget" to safeword? That doesn't sound right. Like she wasn't in her right mind for one reason or another.

as someone that 'forgets' (might not be her case but a perspective at least) i 'forgot' on my own due to past abuse not because of what the person i was with was doing. there are times i should have probably seriously used it (like every time it hurt or my cptsd was acting up) but ive never used it once

 

[Girl-shaped Wound]

as someone that 'forgets' (might not be her case but a perspective at least) i 'forgot' on my own due to past abuse not because of what the person i was with was doing. there are times i should have probably seriously used it (like every time it hurt or my cptsd was acting up) but ive never used it once

I am sorry for the pain that you went through... Cptsd is hell.
I don't want to argue with OP, but the situation doesn't seem right to me (and I am not against BDSM when it's a play between two parties meeting on an equal ground and deciding to go for it). It's often said that a sub has all the power during the scene, but how much did she really have when she could have been fired by her dom? It's just not right.
Ultimately, it is up to the woman to decide how does she feel about her past relationship. I can only guess.

 

[Life_and_Death]

when she could have been fired by her dom?

They were agreed before

if it was clear it was just play then she shouldnt have been worried about losing her job, depending on the tone and her past. (id also like to add im technically in the same place. hes my "boss" and not only that but i moved in when i was 16 with no other place to go)

 

[hamvil]

if it was clear it was just play then she shouldnt have been worried about losing her job, depending on the tone and her past. (id also like to add im technically in the same place. hes my "boss" and not only that but i moved in when i was 16 with no other place to go)

I actually had no power in firing her. It was just roleplay. In EU is not like in the states where the boss has all that power.

you are in a quite unique and potentially exciting situation. must feel great.

 

[Life_and_Death]

you are in a quite unique and potentially exciting situation. must feel great.

what!? (if you dont already know, youll understand this reaction once i explain but first im curious what you meant)

 

[hamvil]

what!? (if you dont already know, youll understand this reaction once i explain but first im curious what you meant)

I am possibly missing some context here. I was referring to the fact you dom is your boss and that you moved with him very early. No idea how old are you now and if there is some abuse behind. I was assuming it was an happy BDSM story like in my case. If this is not the case I apologise in advance.

 

[Life_and_Death]

if there is some abuse behind.

this is exactly the case (or so im told and how i feel). i moved in for no other reason then i was kicked out with no other place to go, it wasnt an option. the sub/dom thing is consensual however there are at times, especially recently, that hes made me feel uncomfortable by his tone and body language while reassuring me its fine. ive been told from outside people, friends and strangers on forums (this and another one), that what he does (not sex related general treatment) is abuse. (oh and considering you live in a place where you dont have the ability to fire her, i should probably point out he does. i personally dont feel it effects me however)
so yeah...not feeling to great

 

[hamvil]

this is exactly the case (or so im told and how i feel). i moved in for no other reason then i was kicked out with no other place to go, it wasnt an option. the sub/dom thing is consensual however there are at times, especially recently, that hes made me feel uncomfortable by his tone and body language while reassuring me its fine. ive been told from outside people, friends and strangers on forums (this and another one), that what he does (not sex related general treatment) is abuse. (oh and considering you live in a place where you dont have the ability to fire her, i should probably point out he does. i personally dont feel it effects me however)
so yeah...not feeling to great

What is he doing to you and what do you get back from this relationship if you are less comfortable with him now?

 

[Life_and_Death]

What is he doing to you

pm me with a bit of a more detailed question

what do you get back from this relationship if you are less comfortable with him now?

ive literally been trying to leave him FOR YEARS. but he manipulates me into staying every time thats literally the only reason im still here. i have another guy waiting for me to get out of this so it certainly isnt due to lack of options. i hope to be out in 2 months. i almost have to be. i have cptsd about driving and have to make a 4-5hr highway trip for my next stop. i cant travel for 5 seconds above 60km/h (it use to be 40 but ive gotten a little better) winter, snow, no way in hell can i make that trip and i dont want to hang around another year

 

[summers]

She allowed herself to be humiliated and beaten.

Regardless of anything else about situation, this makes you both a psychopath and piece of shit. You can't ctb soon enough.

 

[hamvil]

Regardless of anything else about situation, this makes you both a psychopath and piece of shit. You can't ctb soon enough.

Those are pretty regular activities in a BDSM relationship and she was pretty happy after that.

 

[summers]

Those are pretty regular activities in a BDSM relationship and she was pretty happy after that.

Yeah bro, you keep justifying that to yourself.

You are 100% a psychopath if you need to hurt people to get off. No different than people who get off torturing animals.

 

[Life_and_Death]

@summers actually in some cases it can be therapeutic

 

[hamvil]

Yeah bro, you keep justifying that to yourself.

You are 100% a psychopath if you need to hurt people to get off. No different than people who get off torturing animals.

You have no idea what you are talking about. BDSM is based on consent. All activities are agreed upon in advance and actually the sub is the person that is in full control of the situation. This is a pro-choice forum and BDSM is all about choice. I suggest you document yourself before making silly statements.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

I don't want to argue with OP, but the situation doesn't seem right to me (and I am not against BDSM when it's a play between two parties meeting on an equal ground and deciding to go for it). It's often said that a sub has all the power during the scene, but how much did she really have when she could have been fired by her dom? It's just not right.
Ultimately, it is up to the woman to decide how does she feel about her past relationship. I can only guess.

I agree in this case that just being the boss makes it a weird dynamic. The responsibility here goes to the boss, not the employee, to ensure that the relationship as described was a mutual one. That said, what the other person said may be out of line since none of us have the full story. There's only two people that know. I disagree that she used the boss because as described it sounds pretty transactional to me, you both got at least something out of it. It could've been abuse, since she might have felt obligated to go along with whatever you said, so I think you should have been more careful and that the accuser is partly correct.

Tbh even when you're both employees, its a weird dynamic, as you still have some influence. A boss has even more. Anyway just my two cents.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I agree in this case that just being the boss makes it a weird dynamic. The responsibility here goes to the boss, not the employee, to ensure that the relationship as described was a mutual one. That said, what the other person said may be out of line since none of us have the full story. There's only two people that know. I disagree that she used the boss because as described it sounds pretty transactional to me, you both got at least something out of it. It could've been abuse, since she might have felt obligated to go along with whatever you said, so I think you should have been more careful and that the accuser is partly correct.

Tbh even when you're both employees, its a weird dynamic, as you still have some influence. A boss has even more. Anyway just my two cents.

idk if you read this part but they did mention that where they live or the line of work (i cant remember exactly but) they dont have the authority to fire them so there isnt much to feel obligated about aside from telling the one that could fire her, but anyone can do that just because you looked at them funny

 

[Suicidebydeath]

I think it's just the general influence from work and maybe some obligation because of being hired in the first place, that could make it weird.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I think it's just the general influence from work and maybe some obligation because of being hired in the first place, that could make it weird.

i didnt disagree with the weird part, just that him not having much influence should remove most of the "i have to" feeling.

 

[hamvil]

I think it's just the general influence from work and maybe some obligation because of being hired in the first place, that could make it weird.

yeah it was weird sometimes... especially in business trip when there were other colleagues with us. They did not talk much with her because of this I think.

 

[wljourney]

Uhm... sorry, but never, ever, ever start a sexual relationship with someone who is hierarchically under you.
That's an absolute no-no and not only inappropriate but also very unprofessional.

Trying to claim that EU labour laws protect workers better and you couldn't have just fired her?
That's a poor attempt of making this sound better. To yourself or others.
Very obviously your "review" of an employee carries weight when it comes to personnel decisions.
You were in a situation of power.

Why do you think do so many companies make it mandatory to disclose personal relationships with co-workers and then move the employee (or manager) to a different area within the business?

It doesn't matter if you consciously or unconsciously used that lopsided power situation for your benefits.
It doesn't matter if she enjoyed this or that.

It's enough that it LOOKS to others like you could have.

 

[Celerity]

The people bashing OP in their replies are not wrong. It is exploitative to begin a sexual relationship with a subordinate at work, but relationships are also messy, and shit happens. I had a kink for people with authority over me, though I am not into BDSM. If a boss or teacher propositioned me, this kink would have been my motivating factor in acquiescing, not concern for my job or grade.

I would put this behind you and try to avoid any similar entanglements in the future. If it looks like this is a pattern for you, you might want to seek some therapy.