Discussion Is emotional well being all about contrast? Can there be happiness without sadness?

[Forever Sleep]

What do you think? I often feel like life- or rather- a reasonably bearable life is about contrast. (Which I've gotten badly wrong!) A balanced life I suppose.

I don't generally feel immensely grateful for my health until I recover from being ill. I enjoy doing my creative job- but not all the time. I enjoy staying in bed- but I'd get sick of it if I was bed bound. I like being in nature but I'd hate to be outdoors all day, everyday.

Anything you find fun CAN become tiresome if you overdo it. Like that awful moment when you've been listening to your favourite song on repeat and suddenly- it doesn't have the same appeal.

Obviously- emotions coincide with these activities- interest/boredom, stress/serenity, happiness/sadness. Do you think we can actually fully appreciate the positive emotions if we didn't then experience the negative ones? The negative ones tell us to go do something else. I guess the problem lies when no 'something else' appeals. Or- we simply HAVE to do things we don't enjoy.

I don't know what point I was trying to make really. I suppose I sometimes think- yes- we complain about how life is. How it's designed to begin with really- to kind of need the negative things like pain and unhappiness. I just wonder what the alternative is really. Negative emotions- even pain I suppose are there to try and make us take action to move back into a positive state. I guess- if we can't- maybe an 'off' switch would be good! From our emotions. From life itself! I guess that's what meditation is about.

Perhaps even better would have been not to have been made sentient to begin with. Either avoid all that emotional crap all together- or, at least not become so caught up in it.

 

[The anhedonic one]

For Me speaking objectively, I think that there is a massive imbalance between pain and pleasure on both a physical and emotional scale.
Physical pain can far exceed any type of physical pleasure.
And the pain of something like losing the love of your life is far more powerful than love.

There are also the problems of daily life. Our days are filled mainly with stress, boredom and routine.
Everything else is a pointless, meaningless distraction.
The bad and mediocre moments far outweigh the good.

All good things will lose their appeal after a while due to hedonistic adaptation.

I don't see the point of any pain and negativity in the emotional sense.
If it wasn't for hedonistic adaptation, then everything would feel wonderful on a constant basis.
But for some reason, everything goes back to the middle ground baseline eventually.
I'm rambling here and probably not making sense.

 

[Forever Sleep]

For Me speaking objectively, I think that there is a massive imbalance between pain and pleasure on both a physical and emotional scale.
Physical pain can far exceed any type of physical pleasure.
And the pain of something like losing the love of your life is far more powerful than love.
There are also the problems of daily life. Our days are filled mainly with stress, boredom and routine.
Everything else is a pointless, meaningless distraction.
The bad and mediocre moments far outweigh the good.

Very good point. I guess it's because we've evolved from the animal kingdom though. So- it's probably more important for an animal that can be killed and/or eaten at any moment to feel the negative emotions of stress/fear and be on the lookout. Our emotions I imagine came about primarily to reinforce our prime drives- stay alive and reproduce. I suppose- if we originated from monkeys- we were likely a prey and predator animal.

Animals- which we share the primal parts of our brain with can't get too distracted with pleasure. How nice the sun feels on it's face and how carefree it feels munching on this delicious grass and- oh look, my offspring is growing up so fit and healthy and... oh shit- a tiger!!!

I guess we just haven't evolved ENOUGH for our bodies not to prioritize the negative emotions and feelings over the possitive ones. Trouble is- in this day and age- our stresses are different- most of us don't think about being eaten by a tiger regularly. Plus- we do less to reduce our stress. The prey animal will fight or flight when it receives all that adrenaline and release it. Plus- it maybe just moves on with its life rather than ruminating about it. We just open up another angry email and drink some coffee which just makes us more alert.

I guess the 'unfairness' part comes about if you believe in a creator/God. In which case- maybe you don't accept we evolved from monkeys. Either way- I agree. If all this had intention behind it- it's terribly cruel.

If it's all chance though- then maybe it's just more unfortunate... Maybe we would eventually evolve not to feel the negative emotions so intensely- because we don't need to anymore. Maybe we would even evolve to be healthier on such a bad modern diet- full of processed food.

I think we're more likely to wipe ourselves out before that stage though! Either climate change, the development of AI or nuclear war. I can't see the human race having millions of years ahead of it- thankfully. I think this planet will be better off without us.

 

[The anhedonic one]

Very good point. I guess it's because we've evolved from the animal kingdom though. So- it's probably more important for an animal that can be killed and/or eaten at any moment to feel the negative emotions of stress/fear and be on the lookout. Our emotions I imagine came about primarily to reinforce our prime drives- stay alive and reproduce. I suppose- if we originated from monkeys- we were likely a prey and predator animal.

Animals- which we share the primal parts of our brain with can't get too distracted with pleasure. How nice the sun feels on it's face and how carefree it feels munching on this delicious grass and- oh look, my offspring is growing up so fit and healthy and... oh shit- a tiger!!!

I guess we just haven't evolved ENOUGH for our bodies not to prioritize the negative emotions and feelings over the possitive ones. Trouble is- in this day and age- our stresses are different- most of us don't think about being eaten by a tiger regularly. Plus- we do less to reduce our stress. The prey animal will fight or flight when it receives all that adrenaline and release it. Plus- it maybe just moves on with its life rather than ruminating about it. We just open up another angry email and drink some coffee which just makes us more alert.

I guess the 'unfairness' part comes about if you believe in a creator/God. In which case- maybe you don't accept we evolved from monkeys. Either way- I agree. If all this had intention behind it- it's terribly cruel.

If it's all chance though- then maybe it's just more unfortunate... Maybe we would eventually evolve not to feel the negative emotions so intensely- because we don't need to anymore. Maybe we would even evolve to be healthier on such a bad modern diet- full of processed food.

I think we're more likely to wipe ourselves out before that stage though! Either climate change, the development of AI or nuclear war. I can't see the human race having millions of years ahead of it- thankfully. I think this planet will be better off without us.

I think that this world is a cruel, ugly predatory system. Everything in nature is killing, and feeding off something else in order to survive.
The human world is no different: everybody is being exploited for money, labour, sex etc. Everything is transactionary in nature.
Either this world is a dreadful cosmic accident. Or it is the product of a very evil entity.
Emotions are incredibly disturbing to me. I feel too much of everything. It's like the intensity has been turned up to full volume, or I feel nothing at all, except Anhedonia and suicidal. Either state of being is dreadful. If only we were born with a switch on top of our heads: an emotions off switch, life would be more bearable.
I used to practice jhana meditation many years ago. Through this I could reach a state of no thought and emotional freedom. Just pure consciousness.
But my brain is fucked now and I'm in a constant state of turmoil.
Sorry for ranting I'm all over the place today.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think that this world is a cruel, ugly predatory system. Everything in nature is killing, and feeding off something else in order to survive.
The human world is no different: everybody is being exploited for money, labour, sex etc. Everything is transactionary in nature.
Either this world is a dreadful cosmic accident. Or it is the product of a very evil entity.
Emotions are incredibly disturbing to me. I feel too much of everything. It's like the intensity has been turned up to full volume, or I feel nothing at all. Either state of being is dreadful. If only we were born with a switch on top of our heads: an emotions off switch, life would be more bearable.
I used to practice jhana meditation many years ago. Through this I could reach a state of no thought and emotional freedom. Just pure consciousness.
But my brain is fucked now and I'm in a constant state of turmoil.
Sorry for ranting I'm all over the place today.

No need to apologise. Here is the perfect place to rant! I'm so sorry for your situation- that sounds so difficult to deal with.

I agree as well- the human world mirrors the animal world in both predatoryness (if that's a word!) And it's exploitation. We just try to pretend that we're civilized.

 

[The anhedonic one]

No need to apologise. Here is the perfect place to rant! I'm so sorry for your situation- that sounds so difficult to deal with.

I agree as well- the human world mirrors the animal world in both predatoryness (if that's a word!) And it's exploitation. We just try to pretend that we're civilized.

Yes, that's all we do: just pretend all the time.
They invented religion and government because without it, humans would show their true ugly nature.

 

[Source Energy]

Yes, contrast is what makes life, life. It might be worth it for some, but for me, I'd toss this entire cruel thing of sentience in a black hole of the cosmos. It's just not worth it. Too much effort, too many loops, non existence is better.

 

[Forever Sleep]

There can be unhappiness/suffering without happiness, therefore the opposite must also be true.

That's a very good point!

 

[Source Energy]

There can be unhappiness/suffering without happiness, therefore the opposite must also be true.

Yes, but you wouldn't know you're unhappy or happy, and you wouldn't even have a word for it, because that would be the only state...