I find it sad how people are so scared of being called "pro-life" here.

[Un-]

It's saddening. I don't believe there's anything wrong with asking someone if they've tried therapy, or medications, or anything. Or attempting to give them solid advice, and not platitudes. A lot of people are so scared to say something that could be remotely pro-life, that the sight teeters towards.. The other side..

No one is necessary owed advice. But if advice or encouragement is given, it shouldn't be demonised.. Right?

A user in another thread said something profound about it: people are so concerned about things being pro-life or pro-choice that they're forgetting the gravity of suicide. It isn't a light thing. It's people's lives.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking if someone is sure of their decision to die. Some people may not be.

 

[Darkover]

its all about having the individual right to make a choice for yourself without having others interfere with it, if someone makes a goodbye thread and says they've taken sn and someone else says you can always call for help if you change your mind, i don't see anything awrong with that

 

[Un-]

its all about having the individual right to make a choice for yourself without having others interfere with it, if someone makes a goodbye thread and says they've taken sn and someone else says you can always call for help if you change your mind, i don't see anything awrong with that

Mhm. I'm not against people not being able to choose. But I think, just like how people are informed how to die, they should also be informed that MAYBE, POSSIBLY, HYPOTHETICALLY death isn't the only option for them.

The key note is that it has to be helpful, y'know? I mean we aren't therapists, but sometimes something is better nothing.

 

[Chinaski]

In what is either a breathtaking display of egocentricity or laziness because l can't be arsed to type it all again, I'm going to quote myself from another thread below:

This is correct but is also sadly at odds with much of the content of this website on this issue, which often unhelpfully and imo immaturely takes 'prolifers' to be some huge, homogenous block of Normies, living rent-free in SS members' heads, with the only real qualifying criteria being they're not overtly enthusiastic about suicide.

The reality is that these Dumb Normie Pro Life Cocksuckers can be split into groups and categorised as follows:

1) actual anti-suicide activists, such as your fixers and whoever keeps petitioning redneck senators to ban hardware stores from selling rope and what have you

2) interventionists, as in those who offer treatments for rescue and recovery, suicide hotline types, therapists, general do-gooder sorts - many in this category will very possibly hold pro-euthanasia views fwiw, under certain conditions

3) your average person, who probably doesn't give two fucks about suicide and cares even less about this website but is likely to intervene if they see you about to jump off a bridge or ring an ambulance if they find your unconscious SN-addled body because this is the natural human response to seeing another human about to come to harm

4) people who aren't pro-lifers but have this levelled at them because some manipulative sort didn't like their posts on sanctioned-suicide.net and wanted to whip up a bullshit mob

Essentially, the endless chat about these Pro-Life Assholes covers all these groups, when the reality is only Group 1 are hiding under your beds. Group 2 can generally be avoided given your interaction is mostly voluntary, Group 3 can be avoided quite easily with basic planning. As for Group 4, this is tricky, however some textbook cry-bullying and a judicious use of the report button should see you right. Truth is, the majority of people condemned as Pro Life Motherfuckers don't give the barest, basest fuck either way in reality, and the obsession this website has with discussing all non-suicidal people as mortal enemies is unambiguously ridiculous bullshit.

Basically, this website has evolved from being a forum for the suicidal, wherein experiencing suicidality was the single entry criteria, to one which can also feel like an ideological position must be vocally subscribed to, where certain nihilistic opinions must be seen to be agreed with otherwise you face the application of an ostracising label amidst a seemingly endless, occasionally competitive debate about what constitutes Pro-Choice and, more importantly, who is the most Pro-Choice of them all. I doubt many people arrive at this site for this tbh, but if you're here long enough you're going to be held to account for yourself on it at some stage, amidst a surrounding white noise of McCarthyesque paranoia about infiltrators and secret agents. It's not healthy, it's not particularly useful. Literally nobody will get their peaceful pill this way.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

The term "pro-life" has went down the same route as the word "toxic", in that it has become overused to the point that they have both lost their meaning.

You can be pro-life, in the sense that you care about human life, while being against suicide as well; contrariwise: you can be against suicide without being pro-life.

 

[FuneralCry]

I actually find it saddening how this forum has gone downhill. There seems to be quite a few people who wish to turn this into a 'life valuing, suicide must be the last resort, suicidal people need help' type forum. No, it's a forum respecting the right to die which is a human right. Pro lifers are everywhere in this world, what gives them the right to dominate this forum as well. I think the recent pro life thread and the media influence has brainwashed people on here. There is so much wrong with asking people to just go to therapy, it's so invalidating, I think people just come on here to vent and be able to discuss this subject openly without being told by an ignorant stranger who knows nothing about their life that they 'need help'. I just think some people on here are so ignorant to the fact that wanting suicide is the most rational response to existing in such a cruel, horrific world, it's not a 'mental illness' to want to die, even know some people think otherwise. No wonder so many people are suicidal when the world is filled with ignorant people like that. Life itself is the true problem and people should realise this, of course those who glorify life are certainly deluded.

Life simply is objectively horrific and it's irrational to want to exist in this world but of course if people want to then that's their decision, it's up to them. I get that this offends some people on here but many people actually want to die, if people see life as valuable then they should just go and enjoy it and not force their beliefs onto others. Not everyone sees life as having value and that's the reality. A lot of the people who push 'help' onto suicidal people are just so fake as well, they only do it as they are arrogant and want to make themselves feel better and they are usually deluded as well. Asking someone if they are 'sure' if they want to ctb is literally insulting, if someone has spent time researching and preparing methods to the point that they feel ready to overcome SI, asking someone that is treating them like they know nothing about their own lives. It's their life, their decision and it's for the best to just respect them in whatever choice they make. Suicide should be seen as a personal choice rather than something that must be prevented.

But the reality is that many on this site are actually pro lifers. I know that for certain. They arrogantly post about 'death cults' when someone tells the truth about life and all of the endless torture that exists. It confuses me why they are here in the first place. And then there are others who spread toxic positivity which is so harmful, like if life is great for you then good for you, but you know nothing about what others are going through and cannot experience life the same way as them, it's wrong to invalidate people's suffering and the true cruel reality of this existence. I think people come here to escape from all of the pro life type things that are everywhere else in the world, it's a shame that this website is becoming no different to that.

 

[Chinaski]

But the reality is that many on this site are actually pro lifers. I know that for certain. They arrogantly post about 'death cults' when someone tells the truth about life and all of the endless torture that exists. It confuses me why they are here in the first place.

Maybe this person you are talking about but won't name simply experiences their own suicidal thoughts and desires, and also has a different perspective on life to you?

 

[Regen]

Thank you. That's absolutly right. Life and death are not black or white. It's much more difficult.

 

[BipolarExpress]

I agree that suicide shouldn't be taken lightly, and I don't want to encourage people to end their lives. It's against the forum rules, multiple countries' laws, and my ethical standards.

That said, I think most people who come here have already tried medications and therapy. They've talked to their friends, spouses, and clergy. They've tried doing things they enjoy. They've tried to fight the urges as long as they could, and yet, they're still suicidal and looking for a way out. That's where I am right now, honestly. I've been in therapy for half my life at this point. I've tried eight different medications. I've told some of my friends about my suicidal ideations. I've gone to support groups and a local drop-in centre for people with psychiatric conditions. I've read countless self-help books about self-compassion and people-pleasing. I've explored different philosophies and have tried to make sense of myself and my condition—and the human condition in general. I STILL feel like shit. I am exhausted and diminished, and I'm very close to making my final exit.

 

[actual_fox]

Good thread but tbh I have not seen something like that happening on here- I mean encouragement to try or advice being treated as prolifism. Might be annoying to a person who was comfortable with idea of ctbing (such as assurance and the feeling of power over ones life), now he will have to recalculate his options and all of the balances and checks change.

Basically, this website has evolved from being a forum for the suicidal, wherein experiencing suicidality was the single entry criteria, to one which can also feel like an ideological position must be vocally subscribed to, where certain nihilistic opinions must be seen to be agreed with otherwise you face the application of an ostracising

Yeah I agree. The opinions here are mostly subjective opinions about the world taken as objective facts- often not accounting things like statistics. We could write a "peer review" study based on things here that life for some (some small percent or medium) for some period of time (give here period of time from decades to years to months) can be utter torture, but we cannot say that life is utterly terrible by default.

Dear sasu:
Should we ban Goodbye threads???- people seeing "wish you peace" as they are preparing for ctb might feel this as encouragement. We could stop this way history of people who kill themselves on this forum and return to the original or less harsh and nihilistic purpose- discussion about having suicidal thoughts or intentions and ideations, not dealing with life as we would like to and we would stop being seen as the "place where people die". Is it bad idea? Do you think we would loose a lot, or would make this place feel safer and more open to people who would like to talk about suicide but do not want to feel like death is frequent occurrence?

 

[yive]

But the reality is that many on this site are actually pro lifers. I know that for certain. They arrogantly post about 'death cults' when someone tells the truth about life and all of the endless torture that exists. It confuses me why they are here in the first place. And then there are others who spread toxic positivity which is so harmful, like if life is great for you then good for you, but you know nothing about what others are going through and cannot experience life the same way as them, it's wrong to invalidate people's suffering and the true cruel reality of this existence. I think people come here to escape from all of the pro life type things that are everywhere else in the world, it's a shame that this website is becoming no different to that.

very well said. of course most of ppl are pro lifers here, just like in all other places. i left this forum many months ago because of all these types of people. it's just so fucking sad to realize how few people really understand what you're talking about in your messages. this world is so fucked up and it will probably take many many decades before the right to die and euthanasia become legal for people.

life is really such a nightmarish trap/prison/slavery/rape and it's so sad that people have to go through such an uphill struggle just to get out of here. i feel so terrible that i have to go through this whole nightmare just because of someone else's selfish, cruel and brainless decision to breed. my whole life came down just to finding a way to get out of here as soon as possible and with the least losses. every day we take terrible risks and no one knows what terrible kinds of torment can await us inside existence. non-existence is true bliss, and we are all cursed

every day i ask myself: why the hell am i going through all these ordeals? i didn't ask to be born, and i don't have to explain to anyone why i want to leave. i feel so terrible in this life, why can't i just go to the clinic and get free euthanasia with nembutal or anything else that is quick, painless and peaceful? that's all i want, and i just have to deal with this bullshit with the search for methods for some reason. it's just so stupid and cruel

why should i keep my suicide a secret and be afraid that i will be deprived of all my rights if i openly say this? i want people to know that i consciously and rationally chose death because i simply don't want to suffer. the end of the story. there is nothing tragic about it, i just want to go away and be free from all this imposed crap.

ps: please don't reply to my post, i will ignore all responses and objections.

 

[SamTam33]

Life simply is objectively horrific and it's irrational to want to exist in this world but of course if people want to then that's their decision, it's up to them. I get that this offends some people on here but many people actually want to die, if people see life as valuable then they should just go and enjoy it and not force their beliefs onto others.

Hallelujah and Amen.

This part right here! If you value your life - Whoopty. Fucking. Do. Good for you.

Go live it to the fullest. But how could you possibly know if *MY* life is worth living?

What facts have you collected that indicates I should and can be saved?

You wanna go work out, watch the sunset and have coffee with friends? Knock yourself out.

But none of that shit is going to solve my problems. It's extremely insulting (and telling) that you'd think it would.

If watching the sunset can cure what ails you, that lets me know you have no clue what adversity truly is.

 

[brokensea]

I don't think we should ban goodbye threads. Some people who are depressed have literally no one in their lives and then would have to be alone without even the people here in their last moments. I think people need to be more sensitive and not say stupid things or derail the post, Oh where did you get your SN at? Like this person is about to die, how insensitive can you get to ask things like that at that moment but I see it all the time.

There are people who want help and people who don't and it's really hard to tell especially when people may not be able to ask for it. I think this being a non judgmental space is what people really need. They need to be able to talk and be understood. Not be fearful of hospitalization or consequences. Not to hear empty platitudes either. I think people aren't too keen on some people offering any help or advice. I do think methods should be it's own forum and talking about suicide and one's feelings should be in another place. Maybe goodbye threads could also be in another section. I think it would help differentiate between places. There aren't really a lot of forum categories here.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Maybe it has something to do with pro-lifers actually trying to take down this forum, what do you think? Maybe the most recent developmets around this forum and actual pro-lifers infiltrating this forum to spread their nonsense have an impact on the discourse that happes in this forum? Maybe the community is reacting to things that are happening in real-time? Are we allowed to call people who want to take down this forum pro-lifers or does that also go too far in your opinion? Maybe instead of complaining so much how some members call other pro-lifers, as if that's really a threat to the integrity of this forum, you should ask yourself if that thread was really worth it or if there were more productive topics to worry about. Once these people successfully managed to pull down any conversation about suicide in any online spaces, you'll have more than enough time to ask yourself what it means to be pro-life.

 

[👁️👃👁️]

It's saddening. I don't believe there's anything wrong with asking someone if they've tried therapy, or medications, or anything. Or attempting to give them solid advice, and not platitudes. A lot of people are so scared to say something that could be remotely pro-life, that the sight teeters towards.. The other side..

No one is necessary owed advice. But if advice or encouragement is given, it shouldn't be demonised.. Right?

A user in another thread said something profound about it: people are so concerned about things being pro-life or pro-choice that they're forgetting the gravity of suicide. It isn't a light thing. It's people's lives.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking if someone is sure of their decision to die. Some people may not be.

Agree.

Maybe it has something to do with pro-lifers actually trying to take down this forum, what do you think? Maybe the most recent developmets around this forum and actual pro-lifers infiltrating this forum to spread their nonsense have an impact on the discourse that happes in this forum? Maybe the community is reacting to things that are happening in real-time? Are we allowed to call people who want to take down this forum pro-lifers or does that also go too far in your opinion? Maybe instead of complaining so much how some members call other pro-lifers, as if that's really a threat to the integrity of this forum, you should ask yourself if that thread was really worth it or if there were more productive topics to worry about. Once these people successfully managed to pull down any conversation about suicide in any online spaces, you'll have more than enough time to ask yourself what it means to be pro-life.

I don't think they're "complaining" at all, and think they are making a valid point.

 

[Chinaski]

Maybe instead of complaining so much how some members call other pro-lifers, as if that's really a threat to the integrity of this forum

Members repeatedly calling other members "pro-lifers" on here when they're clearly not is damaging to the integrity of the forum, yes - it's especially weird when this is done to anyone who simply disagrees with an individual perspective, whereas someone who literally gave quotes to the NYT rocks back up and is showered with empathy hugs. I'm not sure how that helps protect the place from actual prolifers or benefits the forum. It's also worth noting that there's a difference between people seeking to take down the forum and those who absolutely respect the right of an individual to choose their own destiny but are less enthusiastic about the espoused philosophies of staff or prominent members.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I've never had that concern stop me from saying what I think. If the situation warrants it, I'll tell someone they should seek out all other remedies prior to ctb. I always preface my remarks with it is their choice what they do, and it is. I feel everyone should consider their situations and genuinely and honestly do some intense introspection before settling on ctb. The truth of the matter is for a lot of people it can get better. Some situations have solutions. Others don't. I think everyone owes it to theirself to explore any and all possible remedies to their problems before they take themselves out of this world. CTB should always be an informed choice. Ultimately, though, like I said, it is up to the individual of what is right for them and I respect that. Always. Who am I to tell another what they should do with their life?

 

[RainAndSadness]

Members repeatedly calling other members "pro-lifers" on here when they're clearly not is damaging to the integrity of the forum, yes - it's especially weird when this is done to anyone who simply disagrees with an individual perspective, whereas someone who literally gave quotes to the NYT rocks back up and is showered with empathy hugs. I'm not sure how that helps protect the place from actual prolifers or benefits the forum. It's also worth noting that there's a difference between people seeking to take down the forum and those who absolutely respect the right of an individual to choose their own destiny but are less enthusiastic about the espoused philosophies of staff or prominent members.

Kinda funny considering there has been an effort to pressure staff into silencing FC when all she does is state her opinion on life without insulting or harassing anyone and without encouraging anyone to do anything, so she essentially is someone

who absolutely respect the right of an individual to choose their own destiny but are less enthusiastic about the espoused philosophies of [...] prominent members.

Honestly I'm more concerned about people trying to influence what philosophical viewpoints are allowed to be talked about in the suicide subforum than people calling others "pro-lifers" but that's just my opinion as an observer.

 

[Chinaski]

Kinda funny considering there has been an effort to pressure staff into silencing FC when all she does is state her opinion on life without insulting or harassing anyone and without encouraging anyone to do anything, so she essentially is someone
Honestly I'm more concerned about people trying to influence what philosophical viewpoints are allowed to be talked about in the suicide subforum than people calling others "pro-lifers" but that's just my opinion as an observer.

Idk who has pressured staff into "silencing" FC but l will state publicly that their habit of repeatedly mistaking disagreement with a philosophy for actual "pro lifer" stuff and bringing this up even when this isn't relevant is an ostracising technique l find very uncomfortable, especially as I'm the one regularly implied to be a "prolife troll", but hey ho.

Secondly l don't think anyone has drawn a line on what content is and isn't allowed in terms of philosophical discussion, for my part people can state any position they wish but should also be prepared for the possibility that it won't receive unanimous agreement.

Finally I'll state that at no point have l stated one thing is "worse" than the other, it's fine for you to have your own priorities in this regard, l do however stand by my position that members calling each other "pro life" for any old thing they personally dislike is bullshit and could be easily addressed. If you're absolutely happy with it, it's your forum, your call.

 

[demuic]

If someone wants to be told to seek therapy or medication they can visit any other place on the face of the earth that will tell them that. Of course there's "nothing wrong" with simply asking but the problems come from how someone is asking and the assumptions they make, usually that someone is merely crying over spilled milk and need to get over themselves or they're wallowing in self-pity. It's rare that I ever saw genuinely helpful advice get rebuked rather than insults stealthily disguised as "just trying to help! :)"

If someone is explictly asking for advice or talking about a specific situation that could be actionable that is one thing. I.e. someone who lacks a job or housing wanting specific advice on how to find those things. Not everyone wants some generic advice especially from someone who knows nothing about their situation except for what little they have chosen to write about in an internet post. So many people's "solid" advice is shit that's been said 1000 times before, get a job, take a walk, stop being negative, take your pills, talk to someone, it's not as bad as you think (even if it is), you have a lot of years ahead of you, you don't know what will happen in the future, whatever. Maybe they have tried to find some solutions or maybe they haven't, they aren't obligated to if they feel those things won't help the nature of their suffering or they think it isn't worth the effort, or they simply don't want to.

I doubt there is much life changing advice anyone can give that is so unique and valuable it absolutely must be said even if someone is not interested in hearing it. Many if not most problems that drive people to suicide can't be solved with words.

Almost no one comes to the conclusion that death is their best option lightly in any case. It goes against most ingrained biological instincts and tends to happen after someone has reached the limit of pain they are able to endure. Many people have dealt with years of negative experiences or issues stemming from childhood, or unfixable neurological or physical problems or other difficult circumstances. No one can avoid the message that permeates every society that life is always worth living no matter what, so if someone has come to a different conclusion, there's a reason for that, which generally isn't "no one on SS told them death isn't their only option."

very well said. of course most of ppl are pro lifers here, just like in all other places. i left this forum many months ago because of all these types of people

I did the same thing as well. It's quite disheartening that the same tired "concerns" are still being thrown around.

 

[jamie_]

a bunch of suicidal people on a suicide forum screaming "pro-lifer" at one anotherView attachment 101669
no one should like suicide. it is tragic, heartbreaking and all-round sad.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Would it be preferable for someone coming here crying for help in a moment of weakness and a responder to the thread going, "Yeah, you're right. You should just kill yourself tonight because you're absolutely fucked"?

Like come on, of course people are going to toss out suggestions. It doesn't make someone pro-life.

What options are there? It's either a word of advice, which the person can take or leave, or a bullshit platitude.

The people going, "I'm sorry you're feeling this way" don't care anymore than the people giving the advice, lol.

Ugh.

 

[BipolarExpress]

So many people's "solid" advice is shit that's been said 1000 times before, get a job, take a walk, stop being negative, take your pills, talk to someone, it's not as bad as you think (even if it is), you have a lot of years ahead of you, you don't know what will happen in the future, whatever. Maybe they have tried to find some solutions or maybe they haven't, they aren't obligated to if they feel those things won't help the nature of their suffering or they think it isn't worth the effort, or they simply don't want to.

This is a really good point. Nobody lives in others' heads and can determine how much suffering they're feeling at a given moment. Also, as I said earlier, a lot of us have tried meds, exercise, therapy, work, and attitude adjustments. I'm employed. I have enough money to live on. I'm in therapy, I take psych meds, I've tried adjusting the way I think. I am STILL suicidal.

 

[No longer suicidal😁]

English isn't my first language so excuse me for any mistakes.

Here is the thing. I personally don't know of any other websites that support the individual right to CTB. Take Reddit for example, they don't allow you to be pro-choice in this matter. They want you to fit in the mold of pro-life, because hey; suicide is never rational, right?!

I am not against anyone asking others whether they have exhausted all their options, but I am definitely against those who say stuff like life gets better, or it's all in your head, or that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, etc.

I also can't fathom the new religion in the club, which is therapy. It seems whenever someone considers suicide; the majority jump on him and try the shove down his throat with suggestions to go visit a therapist. Therapy became the new religion. The one that has solutions to all your problems, which is obviously not true. We don't know what problems people go through and yet many are so quick in suggesting therapy. They assume that you are 1) A mentally ill person and 2) financially capable of handling therapy costs. It seems to never occur to them that maybe you are not suffering from a chemical imbalance in your brain; but rather from shitty life circumstances that a drug won't solve. A homeless person is not necessarily depressed due to some brain chemical imbalance, but rather depressed from the situation he is dealing with.

It's important to recognize that not all of us want to keep living despite shitty life circumstances. I'm fully aware of the so many people who will not CTB even if they had shitty life circumstances as they believe that living is preferable to death. On the other hand, there are also the ones who prefer to be dead over living in misery. For me, being alive doesn't have an intrinsic value in and of itself. I judge whether my life is worth living or not depending on its quality, not quantity.

The Individual's autonomy must be preserved, which is something the pro-lifers can't support. They, with the help of governments, want to impose their philosophy on us for whatever reason. I mean, if everyone with a shitty life wanted to CTB then who will work the shitty jobs to produce the goods for the upper classes? The people on the top need some of us to be at the bottom or otherwise their quality of life will be affected.

If you are not willing to pay my bills and provide me with a comfortable life; then you have no right to force me into continuing to live in shitty life circumstances. The current society with its economic and social models doesn't allow a comfortable life for everyone, this is the way it's. It seems to me that the lucky ones want to impose life on the unlucky of us, which is infuriating.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Would it be preferable for someone coming here crying for help in a moment of weakness and a responder to the thread going, "Yeah, you're right. You should just kill yourself tonight because you're absolutely fucked"?

Like come on, of course people are going to toss out suggestions. It doesn't make someone pro-life.

What options are there? It's either a word of advice, which the person can take or leave, or a bullshit platitude.

The people going, "I'm sorry you're feeling this way" don't care anymore than the people giving the advice, lol.

Ugh.

The problem with this is, if it is on a good-bye thread, it is usually unsolicited because either a. the individual about to CTB has tried and exhausted every option they have or b. the individual about to CTB doesn't want to try any treatments and has determined that it won't make a difference in their quality of life.

Conversely, there are flares that can be used if one wants advice. In which case, offering advice shouldn't be met with disdaint. However, in a good bye thread, it is very safe to assume that the individual in question does not want advice.

You do bring up the fact that those that say "I am sorry you're feeling this way" is no more genuine than people offering platitudes, and you'd be correct. But those that say shit like "we love you" and stuff on here to dissuade someone from CTBing is also fake. How can anyone "love" someone they barely know on a forum? It just feels like more of a ploy to act on a heroic complex one has when trying to "save" someone.

 

[cassxtho]

For some people, forums like these are all they have. "Pro-lifers" will never understand that, all they see is toxicity. It's the same issue that plagues some pro-ana forums, sometimes places like these genuinely improves the mental health of others. It provides a community to people who genuinely may not ever "get better". Nobody is advocating for people to kill themselves, it's to let and respect people's decision too.

 

[FrankyPie]

The use of the term 'Pro Lifer' is a dishonest way to describe someone who wants to ensure all options are provided to those who want to CTB, so that CTB is the last resort (which it always should be).

it deliberately brings to mind the irrational side of the abortion debate. In practice, it means that if you reply to someone contemplating CTB with a statement like 'Hold on! it sounds like you are making a rash decision. Sleep on it', you'll be saddled with the Pro Life brand, which equates you to those irrational assholes who thinks women should carry to term even if it kills them.

There are so many examples of this kind of reductive labelling trickery throughout history, it's not even funny. Basically, when someone uses the term 'Pro Lifer' to describe an empathetic person on this forum, I cringe a little more.

Such an obvious misrepresentation tactic.

 

[Rounded Agony]

The use of the term 'Pro Lifer' is a dishonest way to describe someone who wants to ensure all options are provided to those who want to CTB, so that CTB is the last resort (which it always should be).

it deliberately brings to mind the irrational side of the abortion debate. In practice, it means that if reply to someone contemplating CTB with a statement like 'Hold on! it sounds like you are making a rash decision. Sleep on it', you'll be saddled with the Pro Life brand, which equates you to those irrational assholes who thinks women should carry to term even if it kills them.

There are so many examples of this kind of reductive labelling trickery throughout history, it's not even funny. Basically, when someone uses the term 'Pro Lifer' to describe an empathetic person on this forum, I cringe a little more.

Such an obviously misrepresentation tactic.

You catch on quick; you been lurking before signing up?

One of the funniest things about this...issue to me is lexical. Notice how the term "pro-choice" has the word "choice" in it. As in: I can choose to die or not die. But as is par for the course for humans, our use of language totally lags our meanings and true intentions. There's a lot more "pro-death" going around than makes itself out to be, I believe. Which is fine, that's your choice. But to say that your way is THE WAY, regardless of whether that is life or death; neither is different from the other. Recognizing that there is an infinite possible combination of factors behind every case and situation and that it is all nuanced is paramount. Some have always wanted to die and are fine with that. Some have always wanted to die and not fine with that. Some recently began to want to die and are fine with that. Some recently began to die and are not fine with that. And so on and so forth.

That said, I do think there is a time and place for expressing certain sentiments: trying to convince people who make unfaltering goodbye threads to reconsider is absolutely inappropriate to me, just as is encouraging someone that offing themselves is a sound reaction in a post only talking about how they're been having a really rough time recently.

I personally believe the best way is to be as @Meretlein concludes in this excellent pinned thread: "I am not pro suicide, I am pro voluntary life."

 

[FrankyPie]

You catch on quick; you been lurking before signing up?

I have been lurking for more than a year :)
You catch on quick too!

 

[didn't-it-rain]

The people going, "I'm sorry you're feeling this way" don't care anymore than the people giving the advice, lol.

Ehh. I get that it's not necessarily helpful and it can be read as disingenuous, but sometimes it's all you really can say. We're all just strangers talking at each other through a screen, after all.