I find it sad how people are so scared of being called "pro-life" here.

[Unlucked]

Honestly part of the reason I stopped going on here so often and have given up on finding a partner in the partners thread is because of how many people are just dishing out unsolicited advice as if this is a self help forum or something. There's tons of places for that stuff, why does it have to be on the ONE place that people who are genuinely suicidal can gather. You can literally get that kind of support anywhere.

Like you have a designated space for x purpose and now everyone else who already has their designated space wants to co-opt your space and make it theirs too in an effort to being more inclusive, since when did this forum become a self help forum, isn't it supposed to be mainly for those who don't want to hear those useless platitudes anymore, as if we don't hear it enough.

Why can't niche things just be niche things, why does everything have to be under one umbrella. That goes for many other things too, Its like the whole BLM thing, and then people are like ALL LIVES MATTER.

Like yeah we get that it's nice to be helpful to people in general but there's other places where suicidal people can get that kind of support.

I mean honestly some people have petty ass reasons for wanting to die, I'm not even joking. I don't particularly sympathize with the people wanting to kill themselves for not getting laid/ not having a gf, yet everything in their life is fairly normal / positive. But honestly I'm not going to say anything to those people like invalidating them or being like, "JUST TRY SAYING HI TO GIRLS". Same goes for alot of things. It isn't like people don't know the cookie cutter advice that most ppl regurgitate. That's why I stopped giving unsolicited advice that's way oversimplified, I'm sick of ppl doing that to me as well.

 

[Un-]

I actually find it saddening how this forum has gone downhill. There seems to be quite a few people who wish to turn this into a 'life valuing, suicide must be the last resort, suicidal people need help' type forum. No, it's a forum respecting the right to die which is a human right. Pro lifers are everywhere in this world, what gives them the right to dominate this forum as well. I think the recent pro life thread and the media influence has brainwashed people on here. There is so much wrong with asking people to just go to therapy, it's so invalidating, I think people just come on here to vent and be able to discuss this subject openly without being told by an ignorant stranger who knows nothing about their life that they 'need help'. I just think some people on here are so ignorant to the fact that wanting suicide is the most rational response to existing in such a cruel, horrific world, it's not a 'mental illness' to want to die, even know some people think otherwise. No wonder so many people are suicidal when the world is filled with ignorant people like that. Life itself is the true problem and people should realise this, of course those who glorify life are certainly deluded.

Life simply is objectively horrific and it's irrational to want to exist in this world but of course if people want to then that's their decision, it's up to them. I get that this offends some people on here but many people actually want to die, if people see life as valuable then they should just go and enjoy it and not force their beliefs onto others. Not everyone sees life as having value and that's the reality. A lot of the people who push 'help' onto suicidal people are just so fake as well, they only do it as they are arrogant and want to make themselves feel better and they are usually deluded as well. Asking someone if they are 'sure' if they want to ctb is literally insulting, if someone has spent time researching and preparing methods to the point that they feel ready to overcome SI, asking someone that is treating them like they know nothing about their own lives. It's their life, their decision and it's for the best to just respect them in whatever choice they make. Suicide should be seen as a personal choice rather than something that must be prevented.

But the reality is that many on this site are actually pro lifers. I know that for certain. They arrogantly post about 'death cults' when someone tells the truth about life and all of the endless torture that exists. It confuses me why they are here in the first place. And then there are others who spread toxic positivity which is so harmful, like if life is great for you then good for you, but you know nothing about what others are going through and cannot experience life the same way as them, it's wrong to invalidate people's suffering and the true cruel reality of this existence. I think people come here to escape from all of the pro life type things that are everywhere else in the world, it's a shame that this website is becoming no different to that.

I mean it's cool if you don't wanna have those things thrown at you, I guess. But.. Yknow like some people feel genuinely guilty over the Stardust user because they didn't say anything that.. Could have helped him. And that's where my post is coming from.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this.. I don't know. I guess it depends on what you want from this forum. It's a tricky situation.. I wish we could drop the whole pro-life, pro-choice debacle or whatever.

We're people. With thumbs and eyes and brains. We're more than just labels.. Maybe person A needs advice and suicide isn't the best decision for them. But maybe person B doesn't need advice and they know what they're doing. I wish there was a way where both person A and B can be satisfied with the forum.

 

[BipolarExpress]

We're people. With thumbs and eyes and brains. We're more than just labels.. Maybe person A needs advice and suicide isn't the best decision for them. But maybe person B doesn't need advice and they know what they're doing. I wish there was a way where both person A and B can be satisfied with the forum.

Isn't that why the Recovery forum exists?

 

[Un-]

Isn't that why the Recovery forum exists?

I don't think people that are recovering seek out SaSu's recovery section.. So it's safe to say it's filled with people who've.. Somehow, someway decided against suicide.

So, in my example, person B who maybe doesn't really want to die comes to the forum with suicide in their mind.. If someone says something, maybe they could.. "change" person B, and then, ploop, he ends up in the recovery forum.. Someone had to nudge person B in the right direction.

I don't know how many person Bs there are. I don't think anyone can tell. I don't know how it can ever work.. But I think about person B a lot. And I think at the very least, allowing people to give good motivational advice wouldn't be a problem..

But.. It upsets people I guess.. I don't know..

 

[FuneralCry]

I mean it's cool if you don't wanna have those things thrown at you, I guess. But.. Yknow like some people feel genuinely guilty over the Stardust user because they didn't say anything that.. Could have helped him. And that's where my post is coming from.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this.. I don't know. I guess it depends on what you want from this forum. It's a tricky situation.. I wish we could drop the whole pro-life, pro-choice debacle or whatever.

We're people. With thumbs and eyes and brains. We're more than just labels.. Maybe person A needs advice and suicide isn't the best decision for them. But maybe person B doesn't need advice and they know what they're doing. I wish there was a way where both person A and B can be satisfied with the forum.

But I think that people on here don't want to be made to feel worse by having their suffering invalidated and I do believe that people on here just want to be able to discuss suicide and vent without all the stigma surrounding it and many want to find like minded people that are going through a similar thing rather than having toxic positivity pushed on them. It will just make them feel more alone and isolated. What I said is what's kinda the point of this forum in the first place. If someone wants any kind of advice, they are perfectly clear about it.


I do think that the media has influenced this forum too much unfortunately. Every where else in this world is so pro life and censors the subject of suicide, and I just feel as though you want to make the forum like everywhere else, where people who want their feelings validated and respected, and many who just want to know about methods gets toxic positivity and the idea that they 'need help' pushed onto them. It's just wrong to me and all this would do is further stigmatise the subject of suicide.

Not everyone shares everything in their venting posts anyway and we don't really know what others go through as well so giving people unsolicited 'advice' could likely just make them feel worse and misunderstood. Often people just want to vent, they have nowhere else to say these thoughts. It certainly is sad that pro life beliefs have even taken over this place. Seriously that pro life thread is nonsense, it's best to take no notice of that. Another annoying thing to me is when people wish to gate keep suicide, they see their own reason as being perfectly valid but they criticise other reasons as being 'not enough', like they want people to suffer as much as possible before they ctb. I've seen that loads on here, it's usually arrogant older people. Like what gives them the right to do this. If someone wants to ctb there really is nothing wrong with that and this is the reality.

But I just think that after all, it's the individuals decision whether they want to exist or not and it's nothing to do with anyone else. How would others know, they are not experiencing our lives. And to be pro choice means to respect people's decisions whether they wish to live or die, not force life valuing beliefs onto them. And also there's nothing wrong with what this forum stands for, don't try to change it.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Has anyone actually ever benefitted from advice which they never considered before and had to have it told to them by someone else? Personally, that has never happened to me. If anything, the opposite seems true. For example I was cynical about psychiatry, then I finally went to see a psychiatrist after being nagged endlessly to try it. And it turned out to be a horrible experience that I regret agreeing to.

It seems to me that people can sense what will and won't help them, without the input from others. At least that seems true for myself.

 

[didn't-it-rain]

Tbh I do find it kind of funny how a term that's primarily used in an abortion context has been co-opted here. I haven't been here long so I don't know how much my opinion counts for, given I've only read a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the threads here, but I have to wonder if there's a "boogeyman" aspect to all this - the big bad pro-lifers coming on here to shame us into staying alive. (Again though, I dunno - maybe this is more of a phenomenon than I suspect.)

But, I get it, I think. Maybe it's not so black-and-white as I'm describing, but I'd suspect that folks who come here fall into one of two main camps: one, those who have completely given up and to whom the idea of "recovery" is laughable; two, those who are approaching giving up, or maybe already have, but still hold out a small hope that one day things will get better - even if it's increasingly a foreign concept to hold.

Considering the first camp, the idea (and practice) of coming on here and offering advice or empty platitudes ("it'll get better!") is patronizing and obnoxious - especially because in many ways this forum tries to be a safe space for folks who are considering suicide to talk openly and process their thoughts and feelings (which is therapeutic!). But then as some folks in this thread have said, it's natural to want to offer Something, y'know - maybe not trying to talk someone down per se ("don't do this, you'll regret it, you'll hurt everyone you love, etc") because just as with pro-lifers in an abortion context, that's simply not respecting people's bodily autonomy*, but checking in, making sure this is what they really want, letting them know of options and resources if they need it, etc. Maybe the gist is that there's a time and place.

* Though it's not a perfect analogy, terminating one's pregnancy and terminating one's life. Objectively - and I have to stress that I say this without any judgement towards anyone considering suicide (and I'm on this forum too, y'know) - terminating one's life usually has more ripple effects and impact on other people than terminating one's pregnancy... but I digress.

I dunno. I guess I can understand everyone's perspective here. There's nuance in everything, etc.

(On a side-note, I've pondered for almost a whole day now how to organize these thoughts into words, but at the end of the day what's even the point? Everything I just wrote has already been expressed in one way or another. ...so idk. Sorry if this is all coming off as another exercise in arrogance.)

 

[RainAndSadness]

The use of the term 'Pro Lifer' is a dishonest way to describe someone who wants to ensure all options are provided to those who want to CTB, so that CTB is the last resort (which it always should be).

it deliberately brings to mind the irrational side of the abortion debate. In practice, it means that if you reply to someone contemplating CTB with a statement like 'Hold on! it sounds like you are making a rash decision. Sleep on it', you'll be saddled with the Pro Life brand, which equates you to those irrational assholes who thinks women should carry to term even if it kills them.

There are so many examples of this kind of reductive labelling trickery throughout history, it's not even funny. Basically, when someone uses the term 'Pro Lifer' to describe an empathetic person on this forum, I cringe a little more.

Such an obvious misrepresentation tactic.

Hi @Jonels. Joining this forum as a pro-lifer and spreading doubt about the term "pro-life" is a bit ironic but these disingenuous methods aren't exactly a new thing. You people love to manipulate and sabotage this forum, although I suggest you find better ways to spend your time. You're not the first person trying to do that and I can assure you it's not gonna work.

Now, @Un- I think it would be very important that you message me some examples of someone getting accused as pro-life unfairly so I can examine if it's indeed a pro-lifer like Jonels who joined under two alt-accounts already to hijack the conversation around this term or if there is indeed a problem with people calling other members "pro-life" when it's actually completely unjustified. I think that's better than posting them in this thread because nobody likes to be put on pedestal and I think it could get out of hand very quickly. I would like to investigate these cases, we should be careful because this community definitely has the potential to become an echo chamber and I want to avoid that. But we're essentially beating around the bush in this thread and we could move the conversation into productive directions if we had some examples.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Now, @Un- I think it would be very important that you message me some examples of someone getting accused as pro-life unfairly so I can examine if it's indeed a pro-lifer like Jonels who joined under two alt-accounts already to hijack the conversation around this term or if there is indeed a problem with people calling other members "pro-life" when it's actually completely unjustified. I think that's better than posting them in this thread because nobody likes to be put on pedestal and I think it could get out of hand very quickly. I would like to investigate these cases, we should be careful because this community definitely has the potential to become an echo chamber and I want to avoid that. But we're essentially beating around the bush in this thread and we could move the conversation into productive directions if we had some examples.

That's an interesting question. @Un- didn't say that people are getting accused. He said, "A lot of people are so scared to say something that could be remotely pro-life, that the sight teeters towards.. The other side.." In other words, people are self-censoring. I wouldn't expect him to come up with examples because that isn't what his post was about. But here is an example what can happen. A person was in the process of taking SN impulsively. Another person advised caution. The word "pro-lifers" was uttered.

Edit: I gave an example of "what can happen." I should have described it as the type of thing that people would wish to avoid.

 

[RainAndSadness]

That's an interesting question. @Un- didn't say that people are getting accused. He said, "A lot of people are so scared to say something that could be remotely pro-life, that the sight teeters towards.. The other side.." In other words, people are self-censoring. I wouldn't expect him to come up with examples because that isn't what his post was about. But here is an example what can happen. A person was in the process of taking SN impulsively. Another person advised caution. The word "pro-lifers" was uttered.

Edit: I gave an example of "what can happen." I should have described it as the type of thing that people would wish to avoid.

Alright. That was a very specific and unique situation in that particular thread. How often does it happen that someone calls other people pro-life in their own goodbye thread as a response to valid criticism about their method? I don't think that happens very often, ususally pro-lifers hijack goodbye threads to ruin the last moments of people who are about to leave. That does happen quite a lot and I think that's a problem. I hoped @Un- would send me one or two examples in a private message to give us some insight so we could discuss this issue. If there is a problem with finger pointing in this forum, I'm the first who wants to know about that. That didn't happen though and I find it a bit odd to write a thread about people being supposedly scared about getting called pro-life, pointing the finger to this community, but failing to provide any examples to back up the alledged problem. And the only example that's shown to me is several months old and not very representative at all...