Discussion I don't apologize for my posts and I will keep making them

[Daxter_87]

This is not the first time it happens. It already happened to me on YouTube, the only difference is that I personally knew the people who criticized my content and, of course, as expected, they resorted to atacking me personally.

That being said, no, I'm not gonna stop making posts about antinatalism, apparently I should just shut up when a crime is happening in front of me. Like, I see someone who is about to murder a victim and I can't do anything about it because it would hurt the murderer's feelings. Well, sorry for the murderer, but what they are doing is a crime.

 

[FuneralCry]

I don't think that antinatalism is discussed enough, it should be discussed even more as after all procreation is the ultimate source of all human suffering. Having anti-suffering views is just being compassionate and having awareness of how harmful existence really is.

 

[JealousOfTheElderly]

This is not the first time it happens. It already happened to me on YouTube, the only difference is that I personally knew the people who criticized my content and, of course, as expected, they resorted to atacking me personally.

That being said, no, I'm not gonna stop making posts about antinatalism, apparently I should just shut up when a crime is happening in front of me. Like, I see someone who is about to murder a victim and I can't do anything about it because it would hurt the murderer's feelings. Well, sorry for the murderer, but what they are doing is a crime.

Being criticized sucks. I know, it's happened my whole life. My ideas shot down by both strangers and "loved" ones.

I'm with you on antinatalism.

As for shutting up when crime is happening, unfortunately that's how the western world is going today. People are being fired from their jobs, kicked out of school, denied employment for being accused of racism and other things they are not whenever they report crimes. If perpetrators are arrested, a judge just releases them even if it's violent. But these are things that we cannot control.

Pick and choose how you handle situations. Worry about things you can control. If someone criticizes you, ignore them. Just acknowledge those who validate you. Don't try to please everyone. I am learning how to take this advice.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do actually hold anti-natilist views myself but let me ask you this:

1) Do you think the majority of people who want to procreate are on this forum? I'd say the majority of people here are already anti-natilist. OR- they already have children or, can't have children.

2) For the people here who do want children- do you think your views will sway them against it?

I do understand where you're coming from but I also understand why parents here are feeling upset. They're still alive- they're likely doing all they can to hold on for their kids now. They come here for support. You can't change the fact that they had children. I imagine the good parents out there don't want to stand up and say it was a mistake. Many members are here in part because their parents told them outright that they weren't/ aren't wanted.

I can personally see how upsetting it would feel to have the one thing you cherished in life and did your best with labelled as a despicable crime. Plus- you don't know their kids- you don't know if their children are happy and grateful to have been born.

I happen to agree with you on a personal basis. I think it would be cruel for me to have children. I think it's one hell of a risk for anyone to do it. I don't like the fact you are gambling with someone elses life ultimately. Still- I don't believe that every single person on this planet has a terrible life. Otherwise- the suicide rate would surely be higher. Yes- people struggle but not everyone hates their life. I think we are likely still in a minority there.

While I understand and appreciate your concern for the unborn children out there- ultimately- is it fair for you to be their 'champion' and prevent them from coming in to this shitshow? Do you think hypothetically- every person alive today would be grateful if you'd convinced their parents not to birth them? I mean- I would- hypothetically but I doubt ALL the world's population would. There are plenty of people here who appear to enjoy life. Imagine if they found out you'd tried to stop their parents from procreating- they'd likely tell you to mind your own business. Basically- you're deciding that everyone's life is bad- or- has the potential to go bad. But- how can you make that assumption about how other people experience their life?

Anyhow- it doesn't bother me. Like I say- I already hold anti-natalist views. Personally speaking though- I change my world views largely through my own experiences in life. I don't generally change my mind on the big issues because someone bullies me into it. Who knows though? Maybe you'll stop some potentially unhappy people from ever being born.

If it's also for environmental reasons- I fully agree. You have to wonder though- you're not going to stop ALL humans from procreating. You might stop some though. What's better for the environment? The human population continues to explode and we wipe ourselves out in the short term. OR- we reduce our population substantially BUT we continue to leech off the earth for a far longer period of time. Which will cause more damage in the long term? I don't know the answer but it makes you think. Personally- either way, I think our species is f*cked.

 

[Daxter_87]

I do actually hold anti-natilist views myself but let me ask you this:

1) Do you think the majority of people who want to procreate are on this forum? I'd say the majority of people here are already anti-natilist. OR- they already have children or, can't have children.

2) For the people here who do want children- do you think your views will sway them against it?

I do understand where you're coming from but I also understand why parents here are feeling upset. They're still alive- they're likely doing all they can to hold on for their kids now. They come here for support. You can't change the fact that they had children. I imagine the good parents out there don't want to stand up and say it was a mistake. Many members are here in part because their parents told them outright that they weren't/ aren't wanted.

I can personally see how upsetting it would feel to have the one thing you cherished in life and did your best with labelled as a despicable crime. Plus- you don't know their kids- you don't know if their children are happy and grateful to have been born.

I happen to agree with you on a personal basis. I think it would be cruel for me to have children. I think it's one hell of a risk for anyone to do it. I don't like the fact you are gambling with someone elses life ultimately. Still- I don't believe that every single person on this planet has a terrible life. Otherwise- the suicide rate would surely be higher. Yes- people struggle but not everyone hates their life. I think we are likely still in a minority there.

While I understand and appreciate your concern for the unborn children out there- ultimately- is it fair for you to be their 'champion' and prevent them from coming in to this shitshow? Do you think hypothetically- every person alive today would be grateful if you'd convinced their parents not to birth them? I mean- I would- hypothetically but I doubt ALL the world's population would. There are plenty of people here who appear to enjoy life. Imagine if they found out you'd tried to stop their parents from procreating- they'd likely tell you to mind your own business. Basically- you're deciding that everyone's life is bad- or- has the potential to go bad. But- how can you make that assumption about how other people experience their life?

Anyhow- it doesn't bother me. Like I say- I already hold anti-natalist views. Personally speaking though- I change my world views largely through my own experiences in life. I don't generally change my mind on the big issues because someone bullies me into it. Who knows though? Maybe you'll stop some potentially unhappy people from ever being born.

If it's also for environmental reasons- I fully agree. You have to wonder though- you're not going to stop ALL humans from procreating. You might stop some though. What's better for the environment? The human population continues to explode and we wipe ourselves out in the short term. OR- we reduce our population substantially BUT we continue to leech off the earth for a far longer period of time. Which will cause more damage in the long term? I don't know the answer but it makes you think. Personally- either way, I think our species is f*cked.

I don't take antinatalism as a personal thing like you do. You think it's up to the person to decide whether to procreate or not, I don't. It's no different from saying that it's up to a rapist whether to rape or not.

As for using SaSu to communicate this message, yes, I realized that many people here are already antinatalists, so it's a little bit pointless. I would do it elsewhere, but last time I tried it didn't end very well, to say the least.

And you could say that I'm doing the same thing here, that I'm attacking parents, just as I was attacked by other people. But it's not the same thing, because I was attacked in a personal way, something that has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. I'm not attacking parents' personal lives: what they do in their free time, what they eat, what they've done in the past. I'm arguing against the act of reproducing in general.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't take antinatalism as a personal thing like you do. You think it's up to the person to decide whether to procreate or not, I don't. It's no different from saying that it's up to a rapist whether to rape or not.

As for using SaSu to communicate this message, yes, I realized that many people here are already antinatalists, so it's a little bit pointless. I would do it elsewhere, but last time I tried it didn't end very well, to say the least.

And you could say that I'm doing the same thing here, that I'm attacking parents, just as I was attacked by other people. But it's not the same thing, because I was attacked in a personal way, something that has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. I'm not attacking parents' personal lives: what they do in their free time, what they eat, what they've done in the past. I'm arguing against the act of reproducing in general.

Rape is an unconsensual act- so- in a way- I'd agree- birthing a life into this world is also unconsensual- from the child's point of view. Rape is (obviously) always unwelcome- otherwise it wouldn't be called rape. Some children DON'T hate their parents for having been born though. There IS a difference. Where's the evidence that everyone that has been born into this world is as traumatised as a rape victim?

So- it should be YOUR choice that people shouldn't procreate? Because- why? You know the fate of every unborn child in the future? HOW do you know what everyone on this planet feels? Do you think everyone detests their parents for having been born? I doubt it.

Of course you're criticizing parents directly! I expect for the very best ones out there- being a parent is a HUGE part of their life and identity. Saying that having children is a dispicable crime IS criticizing what they've done in the past- they had children! You're number one crime- up there with rape.

It's like me saying that anyone who has ever eaten or worn animal products, or bought cheap clothes is a murderer and exploits child labourers and is a hypocritical piece of shit- I expect that's ALL of us at one point (including me.) Except- that's their whole life now. It wasn't just a poor consumer choice! They SHOULD feel guilty every minute of every day for what they did- right?

Like I say though- it doesn't affect me. I agree with anti-natilism in principle. I just realise that I'm not going to change the world. People are complicated creatures. NO ONE enjoys being told what and what not to do- I imagine you included. This may be a passion for you and maybe you'll make people think. I wish people WOULD think about the enormousy of what they're doing when they create life. Still- I just think people who are that driven to procreate will do it- regardless of what other people say. Many of them are pro-lifers to begin with- so- it's easy for the to write people like us off as abnormal, extremist and crazy.

Plus- you've kind of already set a precident that you don't intend to make exceptions when it comes to procreation. You won't congratulate new parents. (I kind of admire you for your honesty in that- rather than conforming to social expectations.) Parents will infer though (I imagine) from things like that that you ARE criticizing them- you are after all! You've just said- bringing a life into this world is as bad as rape! If someone said something I'd done in the past was as bad as rape- I'd be insulted!

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

It's a bit of a pointless crusade though you can't deny. Nobody's going to stop procreating just because you think they should. You're better off posting about your own issues and wider-ranging stuff that may affect others tangibly, as opposed to alienating some of the suffering parents on here. What purpose does your soapbox serve? Again, if people want to procreate, they will. You may not like it, but there's nothing you can do about it. It's a bit like saying it would be better if the sun didn't come up tomorrow. It's going to happen regardless.

Can't wait for more of these, I hope you deliver as promised.

 

[Daxter_87]

It's a bit of a pointless crusade though you can't deny. Nobody's going to stop procreating just because you think they should. You're better off posting about your own issues and wider-ranging stuff that may affect others tangibly, as opposed to alienating some of the suffering parents on here. What purpose does your soapbox serve? Again, if people want to procreate, they will. You may not like it, but there's nothing you can do about it. It's a bit like saying it would be better if the sun didn't come up tomorrow. It's going to happen regardless.

Can't wait for more of these, I hope you deliver as promised.

If we keep telling people who want to do something about that there is nothing they can do about it, then there will definitely be nothing to do about it. Yes, I'm fully aware of how unrealistic it is to expect this to go too far, but, besides time, energy and heated arguments, I have nothing to lose by trying. The whole thing is already pretty damn fucked up anyway.

Plus, and I've already explained this, it's not like I'm forcing anyone to read my posts; parents who are bothered by it can simply ignore my threads. Apparently I can't say it on YouTube, I can't say it here, I can't say it anywhere. People should just shut up and let it continue, because it hurts parents' feelings. Well, too bad, but it will certainly hurt more for future generations to experience torture.

And people here argue that the parents who are on this forum are in pain, and yes, this is totally true. But that's just kind of a reason in itself for antinatalism. People on this forum are in pain, people on this forum know how crappy it can get.