Discussion How To Better Understand/Interpret Our Suicidal Autistic Users 🤔🤷❓

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

Ideally please read the whole post before you press a reaction emoji as I'd like to hope it'll make a difference not just likes.

Facts and opinions to help other members respect, understand or even to just tolerate and avoid the increasing hysteria and hostilities towards autistic members. ADHD and other disorders may also impact a members behaviour on here but autism probably has the biggest impact even though some (such as myself) can more easily fly under the radar.
If you can't handle seeing their posts/threads then please press ignore. The only reason I even bother commenting some of their threads/posts is to dispel any incorrect speculations about them being a bot, being malevolent or even clarifying the confusing/misleading accusations some might make about things regarding suicide or this forum.

Some autistic people are able to understand the 'what' but not the 'why' e.g threads banned/closed by moderators with the 'why' for example being that the thread was too aggressive or indirectly encouraged suicide. Autistic people can catasrophise and over exaggerate due to interpretation struggles which would appear to be like an intelligent child's brain in an adult body. You wouldn't laugh or aggressively confront an autistic adult acting a bit odd in public so try to avoid that now despite what they say (which is harmless if you understand the why).

They probably aren't as pro-death as some might appear as often autistic people can have ideas or views rooted very much in the fantasy they used to understand the world around them. So were they confronted with the opportunity to do what they say they wanted to they might actually unknowingly be unwilling or unable and their so-called logic/modus-operandi (m.o) even contradictory . Therefore making suggestions that they'd be dead already if they put their seemingly intellectual efforts instead into suicide methods is probably more detrimental than you realise because you're reminding that person of something that perhaps a part of them knows they can't ever do. Perhaps the thought/fantasy of being dead is better than its reality/requirements and sometimes we all feel better saying terrible things to others or ourselves to feel heard or in control. All of us have at least some mild autistic traits despite not being on the spectrum but for those who qualify via a diagnosis all of them and more are amplified.

Even those considered the worst are NOT a bad person or any other amount of choice words that people might understandably use to describe them. Some autistic people come across as very self centered and unempathetic with obsessive ritualistic views, mannerisms and actions (hence the posts/threads being put here where perhaps it has more meaning to some than a journal on their PC or phone). This is all just hardwired into someone which is as inescapable for them as suicidal ideations is for many of you guys. My impression is that some won't care if no-one interacts with them as some will never respond to anyone outside of limited n means of communication (which might not be to everyones preferences). Avoiding criticising them however also avoids fanning the flames of discontent which turns them, the cycle of unappreciated behaviour and its inevitable backlash into a neverending mess to the detriment of the community.

The only slight concern I have is the misconception of what sasu is about when pro-lifers or other infiltrators seize upon their threads or posts to misrepresent us, but this cannot be prevented without making it less inclusive for the neurodiverse people on here. A positive spin you can put on that though is that the forum (despite being the best place representing the worst parts of our lives) is fully inclusive and accommodates even the most difficult or challenging types of people. Try to recognise that when some of them says something that sometimes you need to read between the lines. I do appreciate that anything they write can seem annoying and seemingly insensitive but knowing how to correctly respond (or not) and how to think about this is ultimately beneficial for the whole site without ignoring or pardoning everything that you think other non autistic members wouldn't get away with. You can't really argue with the above unless they directly violate the rules in a way the mods find unacceptable in which case like anyone else I'm sure there'd be consequences.

*Disclaimer- Most of the above is just educated speculation from a fellow autistic/ADHD user who recognises and understands the behavioural traits even though they present differently in all people and with some not expressing at all. I'm interested in the things of importance I've potentially missed that you wish to add or constructively disagree with in order to improve everyones experience on here.*

 

[pole]

great thread!

the perspective that you shed light on is valuable.

each of us on the forum are not just your normal neurotypical people. we're hurting, have suffered a ton, and our life experiences have shaped who we are and how we express ourselves. as a result, it's so important, especially in a space like this, to not look at everything that occurs in a black and white manner.

it costs nothing to be mindful and aware of those who are neurodivergent, and it's no different to wanting another person to extend the same respect and courtesy to ourselves and our unique situations.

an important read, and a lens that is beneficial and should be incorporated by both forum members AND moderators.

 

[DreamEnd]

Ideally please read the whole post before you press a reaction emoji as I'd like to hope it'll make a difference not just likes.

Facts and opinions to help other members respect, understand or even to just tolerate and avoid the increasing hysteria and hostilities towards autistic members. ADHD and other disorders may also impact a members behaviour on here but autism probably has the biggest impact even though some (such as myself) can more easily fly under the radar.
If you can't handle seeing their posts/threads then please press ignore. The only reason I even bother commenting some of their threads/posts is to dispel any incorrect speculations about them being a bot, being malevolent or even clarifying the confusing/misleading accusations some might make about things regarding suicide or this forum.

Some autistic people are able to understand the 'what' but not the 'why' e.g threads banned/closed by moderators with the 'why' for example being that the thread was too aggressive or indirectly encouraged suicide. Autistic people can catasrophise and over exaggerate due to interpretation struggles which would appear to be like an intelligent child's brain in an adult body. You wouldn't laugh or aggressively confront an autistic adult acting a bit odd in public so try to avoid that now despite what they say (which is harmless if you understand the why).

They probably aren't as pro-death as some might appear as often autistic people can have ideas or views rooted very much in the fantasy they used to understand the world around them. So were they confronted with the opportunity to do what they say they wanted to they might actually unknowingly be unwilling or unable and their so-called logic/modus-operandi (m.o) even contradictory . Therefore making suggestions that they'd be dead already if they put their seemingly intellectual efforts instead into suicide methods is probably more detrimental than you realise because you're reminding that person of something that perhaps a part of them knows they can't ever do. Perhaps the thought/fantasy of being dead is better than its reality/requirements and sometimes we all feel better saying terrible things to others or ourselves to feel heard or in control. All of us have at least some mild autistic traits despite not being on the spectrum but for those who qualify via a diagnosis all of them and more are amplified.

Even those considered the worst are NOT a bad person or any other amount of choice words that people might understandably use to describe them. Some autistic people come across as very self centered and unempathetic with obsessive ritualistic views, mannerisms and actions (hence the posts/threads being put here where perhaps it has more meaning to some than a journal on their PC or phone). This is all just hardwired into someone which is as inescapable for them as suicidal ideations is for many of you guys. My impression is that some won't care if no-one interacts with them as some will never respond to anyone outside of limited n means of communication (which might not be to everyones preferences). Avoiding criticising them however also avoids fanning the flames of discontent which turns them, the cycle of unappreciated behaviour and its inevitable backlash into a neverending mess to the detriment of the community.

The only slight concern I have is the misconception of what sasu is about when pro-lifers or other infiltrators seize upon their threads or posts to misrepresent us, but this cannot be prevented without making it less inclusive for the neurodiverse people on here. A positive spin you can put on that though is that the forum (despite being the best place representing the worst parts of our lives) is fully inclusive and accommodates even the most difficult or challenging types of people. Try to recognise that when some of them says something that sometimes you need to read between the lines. I do appreciate that anything they write can seem annoying and seemingly insensitive but knowing how to correctly respond (or not) and how to think about this is ultimately beneficial for the whole site without ignoring or pardoning everything that you think other non autistic members wouldn't get away with. You can't really argue with the above unless they directly violate the rules in a way the mods find unacceptable in which case like anyone else I'm sure there'd be consequences.

*Disclaimer- Most of the above is just educated speculation from a fellow autistic/ADHD user who recognises and understands the behavioural traits even though they present differently in all people and with some not expressing at all. I'm interested in the things of importance I've potentially missed that you wish to add or constructively disagree with in order to improve everyones experience on here.*

we can respect the persons condition. I agree with that. But keep in mind that there is and should be a limit to how much one should be forced to tolerate on a forum like that. For instance, if someone who is neurodivergent starts spamming threads every 10 seconds and completely flooding up the board I don't think it is something the forum should tolerate. Neurodivergent people can and should be given extra privileges in a space like this but there should be a limit or else the forum could become completely unusable. It's all about where you draw the line.

 

[pole]

we can respect the persons condition. I agree with that. But keep in mind that there is and should be a limit to how much one should be forced to tolerate on a forum like that. For instance, if someone who is neurodivergent starts spamming threads every 10 seconds and completely flooding up the board I don't think it is something the forum should tolerate. Neurodivergent people can and should be given extra privileges in a space like this but there should be a limit or else the forum could become completely unusable. It's all about where you draw the line.

i agree that those who are neurodivergent should be held to the same degree as the next member. i don't necessarily believe OP is ruling that out. for instance, you refer to someone spamming threads every 10 seconds and completely flooding the forum. that is warned and prevented when it occurs and there is a line that's drawn.

rather, i think they are encouraging members as a whole to step back and try to be more aware of one's situation and behavior, especially on a forum like this with people from all walks of life, whether they're neurodivergent or not, and that extends beyond just "respecting the person's condition".

unfortunately, it's easier said than done.

 

[pole]

yeah I agree

if you don't mind, i just want to give you a brief example of how i feel from my position as a staff member. you made important points in your response and i want to build on it.

if i see @mmikkee1 make a comment or do something that is against the norm, as a moderator, what i will not to do is jump to assuming your intent, judging your behaviour, and being in a rush to paint you as a wrongdoer.

i don't know you, but like myself, i recognize that for you to be on this site, you have your own story and life experiences, which fuel how you feel and choose to behave at different times on any given day, and all of that is unique to you and very REAL.

all of this isn't to make excuses or justify your behaviour. instead, i want to dig deeper and understand why you chose to behave in a certain way because it doesn't just happen.

i don't care about how i feel and i do not want to let my assumptions about you from the outside looking in dictate my personal judgement. instead, i want to give you the microphone, amplify your voice, so i can make sense of you as a member and person, and go from there.

from the time i have spent on the forum, we're all going through so much personally, that sometimes we'll naturally put a wall up and just see everything and everyone as yet another thing, very black and white. i am a victim of this too because it's hard to look beyond how you're feeling, especially when you're tired of it all. i mean, who gives a shit?

i have rambled enough, but i hope you get where i am coming from. if not, that is completely fine too. i simply encourage everyone to be more mindful and aware of each other on a forum like this, that's all.

 

[DreamEnd]

if you don't mind, i just want to give you a brief example of how i feel from my position as a staff member. you made important points in your response and i want to build on it.

if i see @mmikkee1 make a comment or do something that is against the norm, as a moderator, what i will not to do is jump to assuming your intent, judging your behaviour, and being in a rush to paint you as a wrongdoer.

i don't know you, but like myself, i recognize that for you to be on this site, you have your own story and life experiences, which fuel how you feel and choose to behave at different times on any given day, and all of that is unique to you and very REAL.

all of this isn't to make excuses or justify your behaviour. instead, i want to dig deeper and understand why you chose to behave in a certain way because it doesn't just happen.

i don't care about how i feel and i do not want to let my assumptions about you from the outside looking in dictate my personal judgement. instead, i want to give you the microphone, amplify your voice, so i can make sense of you as a member and person, and go from there.

from the time i have spent on the forum, we're all going through so much personally, that sometimes we'll naturally put a wall up and just see everything and everyone as yet another thing, very black and white. i am a victim of this too because it's hard to look beyond how you're feeling, especially when you're tired of it all. i mean, who gives a shit?

i have rambled enough, but i hope you get where i am coming from. if not, that is completely fine too. i simply encourage everyone to be more mindful and aware of each other on a forum like this, that's all.

No, I agree with everything you said. But I'm just curious where you draw the line. My analogy with flooding the forum was just an example and you said where you draw the line and I agree with that. But where for instance do you draw the line when someone's posts degrade the image of the forum in the eyes of the public. I know encouragement for suicide is not allowed. But there are certainly posts and views that make the website seem like we are pro death or pro suicide. I know it isn't possible to control how people view this website but it is certainly possible to figure out what kinds of posts can create the image BBC and tantacruls video has of us. And I personally do not care about how people view this website from the outside but the public image can certainly play a role in whether or not this website will ever be shutdown.

 

[pole]

No, I agree with everything you said. But I'm just curious where you draw the line. My analogy with flooding the forum was just an example and you said where you draw the line and I agree with that. But where for instance do you draw the line when someone's posts degrade the image of the forum in the eyes of the public. I know encouragement for suicide is not allowed. But there are certainly posts and views that make the website seem like we are pro death or pro suicide. I know it isn't possible to control how people view this website but it is certainly possible to figure out what kinds of posts can create the image BBC and tantacruls video has of us. And I personally do not care about how people view this website from the outside but the public image can certainly play a role in whether or not this website will ever be shutdown.

in regards to the public image of the forum, we feel the same way about it today like we did 4 years ago when NYT made their big article on the forum and prior to tantacrul's video.

those who want to take the site down will vilify the forum and it's members no matter what and certain posts on the forum will not change that reality or make it any better. it's why we chose not to remove the partners megathread a few years ago despite pressure mounting from people outside of the site, who used it as a way to disparage the forum.

aside from the content you're alluding to, it has never stopped them from nitpicking at completely normal posts from members, even just the content of the forum as a whole, and trying to spin a narrative with it.

as a result, because of the controversial nature of the forum (crazy to say) to outsiders looking in, it will always be a target, which is further compounded by certain groups of people, like grieving families, who are driven by grief, anger, and will target the site at all costs. it's gotten to a point where random members who aren't controversial, have done nothing wrong to be a target, are being picked on and doxed by those on the outside simply for being part of the forum.

we stopped giving in and doing anything to control or improve the public image of the forum years ago because it is like talking and appealing to a wall. we could care less about catering to people that do not care about nor understand us, who will not stop regardless. in their mind, they have already predetermined us to be evil.

as for posts and views that you allude to, those are controversial in nature (incel threads, pro-mortalist views) and are allowed to be discussed on the forum as long as they follow forum rules. when they do get out of hand and touch the extremes, they are warned and dealt with.

i hope this response clarifies some of the uncertainties that you have. i don't want this thread to be derailed into smaller conversations. if you'd like to discuss this any further, please PM me and I'd be happy to engage privately instead of replying any further underneath this thread.

 

[DreamEnd]

in regards to the public image of the forum, we feel the same way about it today like we did 4 years ago when NYT made their big article on the forum and prior to tantacrul's video.

those who want to take the site down will vilify the forum and it's members no matter what and certain posts on the forum will not change that reality or make it any better. it's why we chose not to remove the partners megathread a few years ago despite pressure mounting from people outside of the site, who used it as a way to disparage the forum.

aside from the content you're alluding to, it has never stopped them from nitpicking at completely normal posts from members, even just the content of the forum as a whole, and trying to spin a narrative with it.

as a result, because of the controversial nature of the forum (crazy to say) to outsiders looking in, it will always be a target, which is further compounded by certain groups of people, like grieving families, who are driven by grief, anger, and will target the site at all costs. it's gotten to a point where random members who aren't controversial, have done nothing wrong to be a target, are being picked on and doxed by those on the outside simply for being part of the forum.

we stopped giving in and doing anything to control or improve the public image of the forum years ago because it is like talking and appealing to a wall. we could care less about catering to people that do not care about nor understand us, who will not stop regardless.

as for posts and views that you allude to, those are controversial in nature (incel threads, pro-mortalist views) and are allowed to be discussed on the forum as long as they follow forum rules. when they do get out of hand and touch the extremes, they are warned and dealt with.

i hope this response clarifies some of the uncertainties that you have. i don't want this thread to be derailed into smaller conversations. if you'd like to discuss this any further, please PM me and I'd be happy to engage privately instead of replying any further underneath this thread about the matter.

this makes sense. Thanks for the explanation

 

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

For instance, if someone who is neurodivergent starts spamming threads every 10 seconds and completely flooding up the board I don't think it is something the forum should tolerate.

Although @RainAndSadness rarely seems to acknowledge or implement things in the suggestions board, I do agree with you on spamming. Futile as it'll probably be (because there isn't just 1 culprit) I'd be inclined to make the suggestion that users be limited to creating no more than x3 threads per board per day.

 

[leavingthesoultrap]

I'm autistic myself and I don't want to see the same spam 3 times a day on the main page.
However it seems like that issue has improved lately

 

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

I'm autistic myself and I don't want to see the same spam 3 times a day on the main page.
However it seems like that issue has improved lately

Replaced by another potentially autistic user who seems to have a different M.O but has flooded the board.

 

[Aim]

we can respect the persons condition. I agree with that. But keep in mind that there is and should be a limit to how much one should be forced to tolerate on a forum like that. For instance, if someone who is neurodivergent starts spamming threads every 10 seconds and completely flooding up the board I don't think it is something the forum should tolerate. Neurodivergent people can and should be given extra privileges in a space like this but there should be a limit or else the forum could become completely unusable. It's all about where you draw the line.

I agree with this. Or else it would be the same as saying that a sosiopat murderer is allowed free, since he is in fact mentally unstable (now that's a very extreme example).but hopefully people will get where I'm coming from. Nb! But just to put it into perspective.

There is alot of vulnerable and even young people on this forum that should also be taken into consideration. But hopefully this will work out better in the future somehow.

 

[pole]

Although @RainAndSadness rarely seems to acknowledge or implement things in the suggestions board, I do agree with you on spamming. Futile as it'll probably be (because there isn't just 1 culprit) I'd be inclined to make the suggestion that users be limited to creating no more than x3 threads per board per day.

that already is the general rule of thumb when moderating and in rare instances do we have members creating more than 3 threads per day.

for reference, the prolific posters that are still active on the forum max out at 2 threads per day.

on the other hand, it seems to be smaller members that fly under the radar easier than say bigger posters, so it definitely is something that needs to be applied equally. a good way to address this is by speaking to staff in PM and bringing it to our attention.

I don't this thread to be derailed into a different conversation. instead of commenting under this thread, if anyone wants to discuss this further, feel free to PM!

 

[sserafim]

Replaced by another potentially autistic user who seems to have a different M.O but has flooded the board.

Who?

 

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

Probably funeralcry. I actually think that this entire thread was made with FC in mind. A lot of sentences that OP uses feels like it's describing FC specifically

Not in regards to the post you quoted and I've been told quite clearly not to draw any specific users into this so I won't comment on this, but it benefits all autistic people.

 

[R_N]

Who?

Even if he meant you or anyone other than fc at least you guys interact with others and you don't need a license to indirectly insult people without repercussions.

I was diagnosed bpd by two psychiatrists in the past and I don't even mention my diagnosis or use it as a scapegoat for my behaviour.

Before someone starts comparing the two, don't bother. I just don't think people should have power like that which is bound to be abused by anyone.

That is my hot take for today.

 

[TAW122]

Thanks for making this thread and as someone who has in the past been formally diagnosed with high functioning autism (on the spectrum) and considered neurodivergent, I can understand where people similar to FC is coming from. I believe that people similar to her are venting and utilizing the forum as a place of solace. I can understand the frustration of having the board/forum being flooded with countless threads, but so far they haven't been too overwhelming for me and I don't think it is wrong to have multiple threads per day within reason (like rhaenyra said, if it is too much that it is being so detrimental to other users being able to properly use the forum (e.g. every thread every 10-15s and everyone else's threads gets buried), then yes it would be reasonable to draw a line because one user's actions is negatively impacting other users' privilege to enjoy the forum).

As for the content that said person posted, while it may be leaning close to nihilism and pessimism, it is a valid worldview. That said person has the right to view and call the world as they see fit for what it is. I may/not fully agree with everything said person says, but I respect their views and I do welcome their posts on this platform. Personally, I'm a pro-choicer and even then, I'm open to reasonable concessions and other ideas.

 

[sserafim]

Even if he meant you or anyone other than fc at least you guys interact with others and you don't need a license to indirectly insult people without repercussions.

I was diagnosed bpd by two psychiatrists in the past and I don't even mention my diagnosis or use it as a scapegoat for my behaviour.

Before someone starts comparing the two, don't bother. I just don't think people should have power like that which is bound to be abused by anyone.

That is my hot take for today.

Lol I think he meant me but I'm not sure…

 

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

Lol I think he meant me but I'm not sure…

Who the actual f*ck are you anyway?

Spoiler

Nah only joking and no it wasn't you

 

[pole]

Lol I think he meant me but I'm not sure…

he genuinely doesn't mean anyone, trust me. that is why the thread was initially deleted and revised before being posted again.

the purpose of this thread is to speak on neurodiversity as a whole and not pertaining to a particular member. what we don't want to do is play the guessing game and turn this conversation into talking about specific people rather than the topic of the thread.

there aren't many threads discussing the topic of neurodiversity and it's impact on a members' experiences. we also don't have any recovery resources tailored towards neurodivergent folks. unfortunately, it is something that gets overlooked easily, but we're trying to improve and build on it.

also, to reiterate a point I mentioned above, this thread also goes beyond simply scapegoating or trying to justify a person's behaviour. that isn't what we're trying to do.

as the forum grows, what we encourage more of from members is to try their best to be more consciously inclusive of one another. spaces like these are rare, and what makes them special and unique is that it consists of different types of people from all walks of life.

 

[R_N]

he genuinely doesn't mean anyone.

Replaced by another potentially autistic user who seems to have a different M.O but has flooded the board.

We were talking about this but it is all good.

 

[pole]

We were talking about this but it is all good.

that's fine.

I was referring to the aim of this thread as a whole instead of that reply alone.

OP created the thread to broadly address the experiences of neurodiverse people on the forum. however, I also understand that it's easy to get caught up in alluding to specific members, but that is something we're going to refrain from doing underneath this thread.

the member they referenced is someone newer, who I have since PMed.

 

[Aim]

he genuinely doesn't mean anyone, trust me. that is why the thread was initially deleted and revised before being posted again.

the purpose of this thread is to speak on neurodiversity as a whole and not pertaining to a particular member. what we don't want to do is play the guessing game and turn this conversation into talking about specific people rather than the topic of the thread.

there aren't many threads discussing the topic of neurodiversity and it's impact on a members' experiences. we also don't have any recovery resources tailored towards neurodivergent folks. unfortunately, it is something that gets overlooked easily, but we're trying to improve and build on it.

also, to reiterate a point I mentioned above, this thread also goes beyond simply scapegoating or trying to justify a person's behaviour. that isn't what we're trying to do.

as the forum grows, what we encourage more of from members is to try their best to be more consciously inclusive of one another. spaces like these are rare, and what makes them special and unique is that it consists of different types of people from all walks of life.

Makes sence! And a good call! I totally forgot about that , but intentionally ment so try to fiend a new solution obliviously. Not to actually hang out anyone anymore. and god job for taking such a complex thing like this into a serious consideration. That hopefully will benefit everyone

 

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

So understandably it was made very clear I couldn't make a thread about any one specific user (which I haven't, as sasu and autism goes hand in hand forany users on here) but the top message of the link below is interesting to me on explaining more about one suffering users character and ideally through understanding might help reduce the slander a little. The link is disguised so as to give nothing away.

https://archive.ph/dJmya

 

[The Schizoid]

that already is the general rule of thumb when moderating and in rare instances do we have members creating more than 3 threads per day.

for reference, the prolific posters that are still active on the forum max out at 2 threads per day.

on the other hand, it seems to be smaller members that fly under the radar easier than say bigger posters, so it definitely is something that needs to be applied equally. a good way to address this is by speaking to staff in PM and bringing it to our attention.

I don't this thread to be derailed into a different conversation. instead of commenting under this thread, if anyone wants to discuss this further, feel free to PM!

I don't really think people should be limited that much. Someone could create 4-5 great posts a day that are different from each other.

 

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

I don't really think people should be limited that much. Someone could create 4-5 great posts a day that are different from each other.

Her and others, but it's not what I would necessarily call 'special treatment' but perhaps more of an understanding and inclusivity of those who do those things for reasons heavily linked to their mental disorder. FC I think does have her daily threads limited but she's definitely not the only one who posts a lot. I've actually done some undercover digging and beyond me having autism and therefore understanding it myself I've now found in more detail what brought her to this site, the real reason. It allows you to be empathetic for her even though all or most of us are here because we're at the end of our roads in life.

 

[DreamEnd]

I don't really think people should be limited that much. Someone could create 4-5 great posts a day that are different from each other.

I think it should depend on the quality of their threads. Someone posting sn questions for instance by creating 3 separate threads instead of one thread for all of them should be discouraged