How can they say that they are Christian and then that wanting to end pain is "sin"?

[PlainOne]

How can they say that they are Christian and then that wanting to end pain is "sin"?

As if a collective shunning will encourage a suicidal person to not kill themselves...

 

[Ta555]

I wouldn't listen to anything Christians say. Their religion and Bible are so fucked up and contradictory they can't even among themselves what's right and that's why there are thousands of different branches of Christianity. They're all deluded.

 

[Pluto]

The thing to understand about those religions is that they are a groupthink tribe. Members have subconsciously decided that fitting in, enjoying the numerous benefits of a community and deriving a sense of life purpose from a purported authority matters more than independent thinking. Many of them came from chaotic and fragile backgrounds like our own. Traded in their critical cognition and never looked back (because to do so would require critical cognition).

As such, their insights have no more value than a computer programmed to mindlessly copy and paste. Their perspective is neither right nor wrong and does not offer any solid reference point. Just as they made a subconscious choice to shun good-faith (no pun intended) debate, you have to make your own choices. The rule is: with every choice you make, something is gained and something is lost.

 

[WearyHSP]

The "political" Christianity we see today is full of double standards and contradictions. It's a feature not a bug.

 

[Escapee]

I know how you feel but it is not a problem of Christianity but society in general they need to be in our place to see how important death is to us

 

[leavingsoon99]

In Christianity, pain can be a gift from god. It's a part of life. That's true, in some regard. However, I think what's lost in the context of being organized into a society is that a lot of the so-called 'ills' we face come as a result of the way humans have decided to organize and relate to themselves. Economic disparities, societal pressures, and day-to-day routines... all created by human social organization... are seen as 'the ups and downs of life'. So, the difficulty the comes with trying to navigate the human world are naturalized as just 'the way it is'. It's sort of in-line with how Africans were captured into slavery and forced into a plantation system. The generations on down the line saw that life as normal and navigating it's obstacles are a part of god's plan. In their minds, "it wouldn't be here if god didn't ordain it." So, madness is naturalized.

That's what is at the root of suicide prevention. Not only some abstract, arbitrary value attached to life, but the religious superstition that is at the root of a lot of the flawed morality in this society. The same christian who'll complain about too many homeless people will vote down a measure to set up micro-communities for the homeless because it's too close to their neighborhoods. Yet, they'll still talk a homeless person out of self-termination because 'pain is a part of life. And god has a plan for you'.

 

[borderline-feline]

Humans evolved to tend toward religiosity, and that unfortunately gets exploited by many people. There are bad actors in every religious group who will use people's faith as a tool to control and harm them, regardless of whether or not there's any kind of scriptural basis to it.

 

[SilentSadness]

I think religion is just an excuse; it's an excuse to stop thinking and pretend everything is okay. Meanwhile, some of the most horrific crime imaginable is going on in the background and no one is doing anything about it. It's so annoying that religion is used as an excuse to force people to stay alive as well, that is horrible and they don't even want to help anyway. I don't agree with religion as I think it's contradictory and outdated, and the best outcome in my opinion is to die and sleep forever.

 

[Escapee]

In Christianity, pain can be a gift from god. It's a part of life. That's true, in some regard. However, I think what's lost in the context of being organized into a society is that a lot of the so-called 'ills' we face come as a result of the way humans have decided to organize and relate to themselves. Economic disparities, societal pressures, and day-to-day routines... all created by human social organization... are seen as 'the ups and downs of life'. So, the difficulty the comes with trying to navigate the human world are naturalized as just 'the way it is'. It's sort of in-line with how Africans were captured into slavery and forced into a plantation system. The generations on down the line saw that life as normal and navigating it's obstacles are a part of god's plan. In their minds, "it wouldn't be here if god didn't ordain it." So, madness is naturalized.

That's what is at the root of suicide prevention. Not only some abstract, arbitrary value attached to life, but the religious superstition that is at the root of a lot of the flawed morality in this society. The same christian who'll complain about too many homeless people will vote down a measure to set up micro-communities for the homeless because it's too close to their neighborhoods. Yet, they'll still talk a homeless person out of self-termination because 'pain is a part of life. And god has a plan for you'.

That is what I am going thorough. when ever I tell fellow Christians how deep my suffering is and I need a relief. They tell me to be strong and keep carrying cross(carrying a cross is not like this btw). But that is a major misconception in today's Church. I don't blame them they don't know what I am going through. But God is not like that. I Believe the God I know is not like that.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Nothing more Christian than hypoocrisy.

 

[Challu]

Disobedience is sin. God doesn't want me to kill myself, but if I choose to I would be disobeying what God wants for me, so I commit a sin.

Same goes for sexual sin, anger, pride, greed etc..

Will God judge me harsher because I committed suicide? No. The Bible does not reveal that. However, as with all sin, he will judge according to the sins I have committed, and the impact that it has caused to my heart and the people in my life. We can apply this to ANY sin. Because all sins corrupt inwardly and outwardly and all sin is an act of disobedience.

Recognizing this fact, a Christian would see the significance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who took upon the sin of all mankind, becoming sin Himself, which is to mean he became the addict, the suicidal, the depressed, the lonely.. and bore all of our sin on the Cross, so that no one who chooses on faith, to believe on Him, and confesses their sins, would ever be condemned or judged. Rather, they would be seen as the very righteousness and purity of Jesus Christ before a holy God.

And it's that reason why my judgement, as a Christian, if I am to be judged for suicide or any sin, without the merit of Christ's blood upon my life, will be greater than any of you who haven't yet recieved the truth of the Gospel in your hearts. Because I believe, even right now, that suicide is wrong and it is a disobedient act towards God -- yet I would still entertain it as a possible decision.. I fall short.. and hope only in the blood of Christ to make me acceptable before God.. on that day.

 

[stermc]

Christians are not taking these sins out of nowhere. It's all written on the christian bible. The problem is not exactly the followers of christianity, but christianity itself.

 

[Escapee]

Disobedience is sin. God doesn't want me to kill myself, but if I choose to I would be disobeying what God wants for me, so I commit a sin.

Same goes for sexual sin, anger, pride, greed etc..

Will God judge me harsher because I committed suicide? No. The Bible does not reveal that. However, as with all sin, he will judge according to the sins I have committed, and the impact that it has caused to my heart and the people in my life. We can apply this to ANY sin. Because all sins corrupt inwardly and outwardly and all sin is an act of disobedience.

Recognizing this fact, a Christian would see the significance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who took upon the sin of all mankind, becoming sin Himself, which is to mean he became the addict, the suicidal, the depressed, the lonely.. and bore all of our sin on the Cross, so that no one who chooses on faith, to believe on Him, and confesses their sins, would ever be condemned or judged. Rather, they would be seen as the very righteousness and purity of Jesus Christ before a holy God.

And it's that reason why my judgement, as a Christian, if I am to be judged for suicide or any sin, without the merit of Christ's blood upon my life, will be greater than any of you who haven't yet recieved the truth of the Gospel in your hearts. Because I believe, even right now, that suicide is wrong and it is a disobedient act towards God -- yet I would still entertain it as a possible decision.. I fall short.. and hope only in the blood of Christ to make me acceptable before God.. on that day.

You stated it very clearly I couldn't agree more May God bless you. I know he will. But one thing I found difficult to accept is that your notion suicide is disobedience God. I believe Sometimes it is not. For instance suicide is not disobedience for me I love and follow Jesus Christ like you do. And will do any thing to obey him. But suicide is not a matter of choice for me. It is a biological response to the suffering I am going through. I can't stop it. That is when I began to believe suicide May not even be a sin at least in som cases.

 

[Challu]

You stated it very clearly I couldn't agree more May God bless you. I know he will. But one thing I found difficult to accept is that your notion suicide is disobedient of God. I believe Sometimes it is not. For instance suicide is not disobedience for me I love and follow Jesus Christ like you do. And will do any thing to obey him. But suicide is not a matter of choice for me. It is a biological response to the suffering I am going through. I can't stop it. That is when I began to believe suicide May not even be a sin at least in som cases.

I understand how you feel. In some cases, it may not be. The persons in the Bible who committed suicide weren't said to have sinned against God in their act, although all of the deaths (maybe save Samson) were not viewed in a positive/acceptable light. Even so, may the grace and love of God surround your heart and mind. God Bless You.

 

[FadingFast2023]

Humans evolved to tend toward religiosity, and that unfortunately gets exploited by many people. There are bad actors in every religious group who will use people's faith as a tool to control and harm them, regardless of whether or not there's any kind of scriptural basis to it.

Yup, and the climate cult is a good example of a modern day example of this ... replete with it's own end of the world prophecy and demonization of heretics.

 

[Bleedingheartbeat]

The thing to understand about those religions is that they are a groupthink tribe. Members have subconsciously decided that fitting in, enjoying the numerous benefits of a community and deriving a sense of life purpose from a purported authority matters more than independent thinking. Many of them came from chaotic and fragile backgrounds like our own. Traded in their critical cognition and never looked back (because to do so would require critical cognition).

As such, their insights have no more value than a computer programmed to mindlessly copy and paste. Their perspective is neither right nor wrong and does not offer any solid reference point. Just as they made a subconscious choice to shun good-faith (no pun intended) debate, you have to make your own choices. The rule is: with every choice you make, something is gained and something is lost.

Uhm @Pluto excuse me while I put my wig back on that you just blew off. This right here encapsulates my Christian journey perfectly. There is a comfort in trading in your critical thinking for group thinking because basically one collectively chosen authority makes all the hard decisions for you and all you have to do is simply obey and you'll have a good life. At least that's what's promised. It doesn't matter if what you're commanded to do is right or wrong, because you've made this 'authority' the standard for good. And so you never bring into question his deeds. No matter what he does, it's good. Burning a whole city with women and children is part of his good plan. Drowning the whole world is part of his good plan. Promising to destroy his creation if they disobey is part of his good nature. Promising to Send most of his creation to hell is part of his good and merciful nature. Man I swear the more I think about it, the more god sounds like the biggest gaslighter there ever was. At least the Christian god.

 

[Escapee]

You find more compassionate and caring and understanding people in this site than in Christian forums. Sometimes it takes going through similar pain to feel sympathy for other's suffering. It is like the story of the good Samaritan. He was considered sinful un clean. But he showed compassion and practical love for the dying person than the self righteous priest and levite who passed by on the other side. God bless you.

 

[Little_Suzy]

They claim that "Jesus died for our sins," which is why we commit ourselves to him.

Jesus should have chosen a better cause. Color me I'm unimpressed! For this reason, I owe nothing to Jesus.

Is it just me, or does religion no longer make sense when you're suicidal? hahahaha

Regardless, I'm okay because the Catholic Church no longer condemns suicide.

 

[rushia]

Because Christians believe murder is a sin and suicide is effectively murdering yourself.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Secrets1]

Disobedience is sin. God doesn't want me to kill myself, but if I choose to I would be disobeying what God wants for me, so I commit a sin.

Same goes for sexual sin, anger, pride, greed etc..

Will God judge me harsher because I committed suicide? No. The Bible does not reveal that. However, as with all sin, he will judge according to the sins I have committed, and the impact that it has caused to my heart and the people in my life. We can apply this to ANY sin. Because all sins corrupt inwardly and outwardly and all sin is an act of disobedience.

Recognizing this fact, a Christian would see the significance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who took upon the sin of all mankind, becoming sin Himself, which is to mean he became the addict, the suicidal, the depressed, the lonely.. and bore all of our sin on the Cross, so that no one who chooses on faith, to believe on Him, and confesses their sins, would ever be condemned or judged. Rather, they would be seen as the very righteousness and purity of Jesus Christ before a holy God.

And it's that reason why my judgement, as a Christian, if I am to be judged for suicide or any sin, without the merit of Christ's blood upon my life, will be greater than any of you who haven't yet recieved the truth of the Gospel in your hearts. Because I believe, even right now, that suicide is wrong and it is a disobedient act towards God -- yet I would still entertain it as a possible decision.. I fall short.. and hope only in the blood of Christ to make me acceptable before God.. on that day.

The Christian definition of "truth" confuses me. Are people still believing in and teaching about Noah's Ark and god created earth in 7 days? I don't believe your suicide would be anymore consequential than someone who has never heard about JC and should go to hell for it. If that could be rationally explained I'd be interested to hear. Been waiting decades for a reasonable answer. The only one I've gotten so far is "god has mercy so those people go to a special place. Not heaven or hell". While deluded I can respect the person's actions to a degree for having such faith to attempt an explanation. Everyone else acts like they have a zipper on their mouth or deflects when asked about that core belief.

 

[Challu]

The Christian definition of "truth" confuses me.

I appreciate your reply.
Concerning truth, Truth is objective in Christianity. John 14:6. This verse reveals that our way of thinking, if not rooted on Christ, will be flawed to some degree, and that if Christ is truth, and the truth is what a person is seeking, then they would seek Him.

The context of that seeking, is that a person would recognize who they are, and who Christ is. This results in a person taking their "truths", identifying it's flaws, and submitting to the truth found in Jesus Christ.

Why is he the truth? Because Jesus is God.

Are people still believing in and teaching about Noah's Ark and god created earth in 7 days?

The creation story requires faith to accept as true. Noone will ever, correctly "deduce" how the world was created by God. Anyone who tries to use science to affirm its truth will need some measure of faith which cannot be understood through the lens of science/empiricism. The biblical flood is taught and believed, but requires faith, just as well.

I don't believe your suicide would be anymore consequential than someone who has never heard about JC and should go to hell for it. If that could be rationally explained I'd be interested to hear. Been waiting decades for a reasonable answer

IF God would have me be responsible for my own sins then, yes, I would be judged more harshly than everyone who does not yet know the Gospel (Jesus), because I have accepted it in faith.
Matthew 11: 20-22 these verses show that people can recieve greater judgements for refusing to change their minds (repent) once they have been given mercy by God.

So, I know in my heart, that I should turn away from suicide, but my reasonings and circumstances, still allow me to entertain the thought.. and that's why, as a Christian, I'm expecting judgement, UNLESS God forgives me.. which I desperately hope he would.

In the end, suicide is a sin like any other. God forgives, but he is just. It would, in my opinion, be fair to say that people who commit suicide should be cognizant of the ramifications of their decision.. which I suppose mainly concerns their families/friends. If God would deem it necessary for me to be judged for it, then that's what will happen.. although, the promise of salvation in Christ affirms that even if I am judged, I will be saved.

The only one I've gotten so far is "god has mercy so those people go to a special place. Not heaven or hell".

I believe that people go to Hell(Sheol), if they have not believed on Christ. Sheol is a holding place, not a place that exists as a fiery lava torture chamber with satan and devils stabbing you with spears... this is what Evangelicals would have you believe. There, people will be tormented, yes. BUT, by their own sin. This is why there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, as seen in the parable of the rich man and lazarus and the end of parable of the Wedding Feast in Matthew 22. Gnashing of teeth and weeping represents woe, loss, and suffering... however, this is a punishment and punishments are not eternal. Every punishment that God has given, has not been without restoration and mercy (e.g Israelites disobeying God, God punishes them, but promises to restore them through the Gentiles)

So, this begs the question that if God is love, gives fair punishment, and his mercy enduerth forever AND has given the GIFT of salvation to ALL men, while they were sinners by way of Jesus Christ's sacrifice... why would He place us in Sheol or a lake of fire to burn in agony for eternity?

Simple answer. He won't.

If you don't agree, you must study the Bible, and the proper translations of the words used to describe, eternity, Hell, torment (the lake of fire is not eternal)

 

[GreenTree]

Thinking about God, sin, the Bible has messed my head up even more. Its all scary. Wish I never knew so much about it all.

 

[Secrets1]

I appreciate your reply.
Concerning truth, Truth is objective in Christianity. John 14:6. This verse reveals that our way of thinking, if not rooted on Christ, will be flawed to some degree, and that if Christ is truth, and the truth is what a person is seeking, then they would seek Him.

The context of that seeking, is that a person would recognize who they are, and who Christ is. This results in a person taking their "truths", identifying it's flaws, and submitting to the truth found in Jesus Christ.

Why is he the truth? Because Jesus is God.


The creation story requires faith to accept as true. Noone will ever, correctly "deduce" how the world was created by God. Anyone who tries to use science to affirm its truth will need some measure of faith which cannot be understood through the lens of science/empiricism. The biblical flood is taught and believed, but requires faith, just as well.


IF God would have me be responsible for my own sins then, yes, I would be judged more harshly than everyone who does not yet know the Gospel (Jesus), because I have accepted it in faith.
Matthew 11: 20-22 these verses show that people can recieve greater judgements for refusing to change their minds (repent) once they have been given mercy by God.

So, I know in my heart, that I should turn away from suicide, but my reasonings and circumstances, still allow me to entertain the thought.. and that's why, as a Christian, I'm expecting judgement, UNLESS God forgives me.. which I desperately hope he would.

In the end, suicide is a sin like any other. God forgives, but he is just. It would, in my opinion, be fair to say that people who commit suicide should be cognizant of the ramifications of their decision.. which I suppose mainly concerns their families/friends. If God would deem it necessary for me to be judged for it, then that's what will happen.. although, the promise of salvation in Christ affirms that even if I am judged, I will be saved.


I believe that people go to Hell(Sheol), if they have not believed on Christ. Sheol is a holding place, not a place that exists as a fiery lava torture chamber with satan and devils stabbing you with spears... this is what Evangelicals would have you believe. There, people will be tormented, yes. BUT, by their own sin. This is why there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, as seen in the parable of the rich man and lazarus and the end of parable of the Wedding Feast in Matthew 22. Gnashing of teeth and weeping represents woe, loss, and suffering... however, this is a punishment and punishments are not eternal. Every punishment that God has given, has not been without restoration and mercy (e.g Israelites disobeying God, God punishes them, but promises to restore them through the Gentiles)

So, this begs the question that if God is love, gives fair punishment, and his mercy enduerth forever AND has given the GIFT of salvation to ALL men, while they were sinners by way of Jesus Christ's sacrifice... why would He place us in Sheol or a lake of fire to burn in agony for eternity?

Simple answer. He won't.

If you don't agree, you must study the Bible, and the proper translations of the words used to describe, eternity, Hell, torment (the lake of fire is not eternal)

I appreciate the time and care you put into responding and speaking your view. I don't believe it to be truth. In part because of how the Bible was constructed, who wrote it and decided what would go in it. Along with its hypocrisy's. There's the issue of evolution, which we have actual evidence for that contradicts the Bible. Simply saying the Bible = the word of god and you must read it, shape life around it is more than faith imo.

Someone tried to convert me to Christianity. I was open to a conversation. They came over with all these pamphlets, one of which was "is the Jesus the word of god?" and within the pamphlet the only reasoning is "because the Bible said so" as if those people had greater insight despite all the violence, discrimination and abuse that's come in the name of the church. I also don't buy that a serial rapist can just repent and have a greater afterlife than someone who's lived the values Jesus taught but doesn't believe the guy was god's so. Then, if Jesus was such a humble guy willing to look the other way why is it demanded that people worship him and his father?

So much doesn't make sense beyond the bible. If that book has legitimacy I think it's as a test to see if people can read between the lines correctly, identify the mirages from lessons and live by the values Jesus taught. Not the section of a book some other dude decided to put there 200 years later. Kind of like culture wars with parents and libraries or schooling right now.

 

[brokeandbroken]

As a Christian and someone who to be honest in a sense wants to not be right now because of my situation but can't because the truth it is undeniably true. For instance I hate how many things beget themselves within Christianity for instance prayer. If prayer doesnt work pray more!! If Christianity is true is this inherently bad should we feel like the disorder in the cosmos can be controlled? Sure. Does it not scientifically. Sure the bible does say dont test God but you get my point. Like I stated I am a Christian and believe it. Ultimately, it seems to me if God is going to help you prayer may help but I think he helps very few.

That said you did touch on something OP. Both within modern society and likely within the church. Most of the church nowadays does little to help people struggling with mental health like most of society to be honest. They think they do but they don't. See prayer. Modern society? Pfft nope leave it to the professionals. The common thread amongst almost every school shooter for example is kids being bullied severely and then abandoned by society. Then people act surprised by how it could happen. How many could have been prevented if someone cared? Hell most of the time it seems though the parents don't care either.

All this is to see the church and modern society want quick easy solutions that require little to no work on their part. People are inherently lazy and if you say you need help you become a burden and they are too self absorbed and too busy with important people to care. So the church like modern society gives quick and easy responses such as in the instance don't do it it's wrong. Why? They don't want the bad feelings that arise when so and so dies and it's plastered on the news. Then they mumble something about how tragic it is and go back and do it all over again rinse lather and repeat. There is a loneliness crisis in the west and the people who could help won't. How many people would be helped on this site if they had 1 (more) person who truly cared about them? For instance with loneliness the answer isn't I'll be your friend. It's you should really put yourself out there, go join a club or something. Like I said the west loves quick simple ineffective solutions that spare them effort.