Headbutting a Train

[MexicanTravels]

There you go!! I just think it's actually quite cruel to accuse someone of being so deplorable because they decided to kill themselves the wrong way, you can let someone know there are better ways without making them feel like dross.

I was actually called out by my state-appointed therapist and it was their remarks that made me change my mind. So this discussion is not in vain.

Just curious, what are these emotional resources you're referring to exactly?

I meant to say mental health resources, whether that's family, friends, or professionals.

 

[MexicanTravels]

A few years, a bit of patience, and then the added risk and finances required to procure N are beyond a lot of desperate people who urgently feel the need to ctb.

Where there's a will, there's an ethically-minded way. There are cheaper ways to CTB as well that don't involve "headbutting a train." I am simply highlighting that even for me, someone who was desperate enough to consider getting shot by a cop, desperation is not an excuse to traumatize a stranger. It may take some time to perfect your method, but it is well worth it to have a clean conscience.

 

[Chinaski]

Where there's a will, there's an ethically-minded way.

In most cases, I'd imagine the will is simply to ctb in the most efficient and convenient way possible for that individual and this takes precedence over what you consider to be ethical considerations.

In suggesting an "ethically minded suicide forum" would naturally share your opinion re train you're expecting everyone on this site to share your view that ctb is fine apart from this one particular method, else they fail a hypothetical ethics test. This is an unfair position for a suicide forum to take imo, users should not be openly condemned for choosing a common and accessible method which falls short of the ethical standards of a few individual users, and no user should consider themselves the arbiter of what passes an ethics test when choosing a method. A suicide forum which outwardly condemns people for considering a common, efficient and accessible method would not be fit for purpose.

 

[MexicanTravels]

In most cases, I'd imagine the will is simply to ctb in the most efficient and convenient way possible for that individual and this takes precedence over what you consider to be ethical considerations.

In suggesting an "ethically minded suicide forum" would naturally share your opinion re train you're expecting everyone on this site to share your view that ctb is fine apart from this one particular method, else they fail a hypothetical ethics test. This is an unfair position for a suicide forum to take imo, users should not be openly condemned for choosing a common and accessible method which falls short of the ethical standards of a few individual users, and no user should consider themselves the arbiter of what passes an ethics test when choosing a method. A suicide forum which outwardly condemns people for considering a common, efficient and accessible method would not be fit for purpose.

Suicide bombing is also a common, efficient, and accessible method and it isn't touted on this forum for obvious reasons. Users will continue to post their "suicide by train" threads and other users will continue to frown upon or defend this method. That's the beauty of the forum.

 

[Chinaski]

Suicide bombing is also a common, efficient, and accessible method and it isn't touted on this forum for obvious reasons. Users will continue to post their "suicide by train" threads and other users will continue to frown upon or defend this method. That's the beauty of the forum.

Suicide bombing, like anything involving actual homicide, is really not equivalent for very obvious reasons that do not need explaining or discussing further.

People will frown upon the method, as they will when discussing every method. I agreed from the outset, stating a personal preference or distaste for a method is fine. This was never my argument. Condemning a user for choosing a method you dislike is very different and imo not appropriate, as is the suggestion that a suicide forum which doesn't indulge in judgemental "calling out" of those who opt for the train method is somehow falling below some ethical standard decided by a few individual users.

 

[MexicanTravels]

Suicide bombing, like anything involving actual homicide, is really not equivalent for very obvious reasons that do not need explaining or discussing further.

But potentially causing PTSD in a train driver is perfectly fine? That seems like flawed logic.

Here's an article on a train driver and the effects a suicide had on them:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ver-struggles-with-lives-taken-a-1191500.html

Condemning a user for choosing a method you dislike is very different and imo not appropriate

Let's wait for a suicidal train driver to pop up on the forums due to their PTSD and then we'll talk.

 

[I am ___________]

You will most likely get brain damage and there is small chance that you might live or someone will "save you". A lot of risks with this I think, I was also thinking of using trains to ctb but too many people around.

 

[Chinaski]

Let's wait for a suicidal train driver to pop up on the forums due to their PTSD and then we'll talk.

This is potentially an impact of every method. I personally know someone who discovered his brother's hanged body. This was nearly twenty years ago and the effects were severe, long lasting and far-reaching.

Flawed logic is equating suicide bombing with suicide. I don't know how often l have to make this point but criticising a method is fine, outwardly condemning suicidal people for considering a common method you disapprove of, on a suicide forum, is not.

Tbh I'll leave this now, given that I've made my views about condemning users for their choice of method on an actual suicide forum quite clear and none of the arguments in favour of "calling out" those who suicide by train, such as equating this deed with suicide bombing, are going to sway me from that position.

 

[MexicanTravels]

This is potentially an impact of every method. I personally know someone who discovered his brother's hanged body. This was nearly twenty years ago and the effects were severe, long lasting and far-reaching.

Flawed logic is equating suicide bombing with suicide. I don't know how often l have to make this point but criticising a method is fine, outwardly condemning suicidal people for considering a common method you disapprove of, on a suicide forum, is not.

Tbh I'll leave this now, given that I've made my views about condemning users for their choice of method on an actual suicide forum quite clear and none of the arguments in favour of "calling out" those who suicide by train, such as equating this deed with suicide bombing, are going to sway me from that position.

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree. I also just reviewed the posts on this thread. Nobody is "outwardly condemning" anybody. They're simply pointing out that this method is not something they approve of. And while there is potentially an impact for every method, there is also a distinction between witnessing a suicide and feeling implicated in one. Finally, nobody is equating suicide with suicide bombing. I was just pointing out what not curbing your analogy leads to.

 

[AveryConure]

I wouldn't recommend it but I know for some people there's not a whole lot of options. I'd say only do it as a last resort but if you know the risks and you're extremely desperate then I honestly am not going to stop you.

 

[sif]

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree. I also just reviewed the posts on this thread. Nobody is "outwardly condemning" anybody. They're simply pointing out that this method is not something they approve of. And while there is potentially an impact for every method, there is also a distinction between witnessing a suicide and feeling implicated in one. Finally, nobody is equating suicide with suicide bombing. I was just pointing out what not curbing your analogy leads to.

Calling something evil is outwardly condemning it, that's where that whole discussion started.

 

[MexicanTravels]

Calling something evil is outwardly condemning it, that's where that whole discussion started.

It's condemning the act, not the individual. Here's an article that goes into this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mental-mishaps/201702/good-people-evil-actions

 

[Rollo]

Id be a little concerned because Christopher Reeve had all the bones in his neck crushed and he survived and was paralyzed from the neck down

Many trains have front guards designed to clear the path. If your neck goes under the wheel - decapitation. But if the guard slams into it - who knows. Still sounds deadly though.

 

[Chinaski]

Criticising the act, as exhibited regularly across the forum:

I have strong negative feelings about method A because of factors X and Y and I'd personally struggle with the consequences of these things if l were to do it myself. I would definitely not use this method myself.

Criticising the individual, as exhibited in this very thread:

This is evil. There is literally no excuse for doing this. You do not have the right to do this. This falls below my own ethical standards and you must therefore be called out.

 

[MexicanTravels]

Criticising the act, as exhibited regularly across the forum:

I have strong negative feelings about method A because of factors X and Y and I'd personally struggle with the consequences of these things if l were to do it myself. I would definitely not use this method myself.

Criticising the individual, as exhibited in this very thread:

This is evil. There is literally no excuse for doing this. You do not have the right to do this. This falls below my own ethical standards and you must therefore be called out.

Since we're getting into the particulars of word choice here, calling somebody out and condemning them are two different things.

 

[sif]

Many trains have front guards designed to clear the path. If your neck goes under the wheel - decapitation. But if the guard slams into it - who knows. Still sounds deadly though.

It's still a hell of a lot of force, even with the guard, going from stationary to being hit by a high speed freight train is going to be deadly in most arrangements. Of course I'm speaking from intuition and not reports so take it with a grain of salt but force = mass x acceleration, the mass of any train is incredible, when you picture the physics it's more like asking "which angle should I hit the ground at when jumping to guarantee death?". Whether the head is severed or you take the brunt of the blunt force instead...
Edit: Ignore this I am not very good at maths

Here the train does all the work, it might even be expected to be more deadly than jumping from any height.

It's condemning the act, not the individual. Here's an article that goes into this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mental-mishaps/201702/good-people-evil-actions

I know, you said this before when referring to a tornado. Okay, well we're agreed on that anyway then, the person is not evil.

 

[sif]

Wait my post was wrong as heck, I am just editing it

 

[Chinaski]

Wait my post was wrong as heck, I am just editing it

How do l make this my signature?

 

[sif]

How do l make this my signature?

Please no, I don't want my failure immortalising :(

 

[JWL]

I'm not suggesting you "back down", merely putting an alternative view to the overly stated position that ctb by train is, in all cases, a deliberately harmful thing to do..

Maybe it's 'overly stated' because it IS, in all cases, a deliberately harmful thing to do.

Something this clearly wrong is always worth overly stating.

 

[Chinaski]

Maybe it's 'overly stated' because it IS, in all cases, a deliberately harmful thing to do.

Something this clearly wrong is always worth overly stating.

I've made it quite clear on so many occasions within this thread that the issue is not with debating the pros and cons of any method, including each individual moral position on any method; the issue l have is with the condemnatory and sanctimonious language directed at anyone who considers this particular method. I really do fail to see how this has been misunderstood given the number of posts made in this thread, l can only assume this has been done deliberately.

 

[JWL]

I've made it quite clear on so many occasions within this thread that the issue is not with debating the pros and cons of any method, including each individual moral position on any method; the issue l have is with the condemnatory and sanctimonious language directed at anyone who considers this particular method. I really do fail to see how this has been misunderstood given the number of posts made in this thread, l can only assume this has been done deliberately.

"condemnatory"?
"sanctimoneous"?
"done deliberately"?

You are very free in assigning accusatory meanings to views that don't fit your own. It's like the old 'snowflake' cover-all term again.

You've "made it clear on so many occasions...that the issue is not with..."

No, you haven't 'made it clear'. That sounds like you see your view as naturally superior and sounds almost arrogant, and it's quite tiresome for you to be discussing it with the plebs. You've advanced your opinions, others have advanced opposite opinions. Ascribing terms like 'condemnatory and sanctimoneous' to them do not win you the high ground or the moral point de depart. It's a topic of debate, not an irrefutable universal Truth (although causing unnecessary harm to others IS one..).

"I really do fail to see how this has been misunderstood..."

Not 'misunderstood', just not accepted. Not agreeing with an opposing opinion does not equate to 'misunderstanding' it.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Where there's a will, there's an ethically-minded way. There are cheaper ways to CTB as well that don't involve "headbutting a train."

What could possibly be a cheaper ctb method than a train impact?

 

[JWL]

What could possibly be a cheaper ctb method than a train impact?

It depends. A 1st class ticket can be hellish pricey.

 

[whyidon'tknow]

Headbutting a train LOL

Head on tracks is much better

 

[BridgeJumper]

I mean I backed out of the trian method for this very reason - I really dont want to cause anymore pain that I need to, especially for some poor bloke who has never even seen me before and now has to deal with my death, but I also dont think people who want to go out this way should be considered evil! They should be provided with relevant info just like us jumpers and hangers are. I have some info on trains and how to go about it if the OP wants it.

 

[JWL]

The problem with ctb with the train headbutting scenario is that here in the UK trains are always late or cancelled. It's a very unreliable method.

 

[Broken Chimera]

I watched a video where a guy jumped into one. He ended up rolling like a log across the platform and knocking over two people before smashing his face on a metal bench leg. He died from it but he had enough distance to lay down on the tracks without anyone getting in his way and stopping him. Going under the train is better than how he went out.