Method Guns/firearms megathread

[TiredHorse]

Sorry for the repetition.

No problem. That seems to be the way it works on the forum. I'm glad you found those old threads; thanks for posting the links.

 

[spanishguy22]

Could you guys tell me if I can aim he gun towards the spot of the occipital bone? Or would that bone stop the bullet from reaching brain stem?
My problem is a bone protrudes a bit in the middle of the nape. I'm confused if that bone is the nape or the occipital bone. It's uncommon that's what I know

Anyway I'm guessing shooting the middle of the nape is the best right? Can I aim near the end of the nape? (As my bone ends around there)

Thank you

 

[Kta1994]

Do you guys have a photo of someone actually pointing to the brainsteam?

 

[TAW122]

Not really, but online there are some pictures of suicide via shotgun/gun aftermath and the aftermath might help give some reference or idea of where to aim.

 

[Ynoocs]

I know it has been previously discussed that .22 caliber is too small to be reliable, but would a .223 hollow point fired from an AR15 with a 16 inch barrel change things? A .223 flies over 3000 ft/second, which is nearly 3 times as fast as a handgun .22 caliber. The gun is also relatively short too, and it can be held easily through the mouth and even slightly behind the ear. Really looking for input on this.

 

[TiredHorse]

.223 is a completely different round than .22 --far, far more powerful, and entirely capable of the job. However, an AR15 is a much more expensive gun than a 12ga --and most handguns, for that matter-- so I'm not sure what you would gain by using an AR15 over a basic 12ga with a sawn off barrel.

 

[Ynoocs]

.223 is a completely different round than .22 --far, far more powerful, and entirely capable of the job. However, an AR15 is a much more expensive gun than a 12ga --and most handguns, for that matter-- so I'm not sure what you would gain by using an AR15 over a basic 12ga with a sawn off barrel.

Thanks for the reply. I already have an AR15, so buying isn't an issue. Do you think mouth or behind the ear would be better? I feel like behind the ear is more likely to cause significant damage if I were to accidentally miss the brain stem. In the mouth I could accidentally just shoot through the back of my throat.

 

[TiredHorse]

With a long gun, the awkwardness of handling it in such close proximity to your head, and still maintaining good dexterity to operate the trigger, will determine your best aim option. Despite my own preference for behind the ear (with a handgun), if I were using a long gun I would probably opt to shoot into my mouth just because the awkwardness of handling a long gun at the angles necessary for a behind-the-ear shot would dramatically reduce my confidence in my accuracy. I haven't tried it, but holding a rifle steady and level out from the side of your head can't be easy. It's difficult enough getting the angle right with a compact .32 auto.

So in short, if I was using an AR, after some practice in front of a mirror to gain confidence in my elevation angle, I'd probably shoot through the mouth. I would also practice with the intention to miss low, if I were going to miss, with the intention of severing the spinal column if I miss the brainstem itself.

 

[spanishguy22]

With a long gun, the awkwardness of handling it in such close proximity to your head, and still maintaining good dexterity to operate the trigger, will determine your best aim option. Despite my own preference for behind the ear (with a handgun), if I were using a long gun I would probably opt to shoot into my mouth just because the awkwardness of handling a long gun at the angles necessary for a behind-the-ear shot would dramatically reduce my confidence in my accuracy. I haven't tried it, but holding a rifle steady and level out from the side of your head can't be easy. It's difficult enough getting the angle right with a compact .32 auto.

So in short, if I was using an AR, after some practice in front of a mirror to gain confidence in my elevation angle, I'd probably shoot through the mouth. I would also practice with the intention to miss low, if I were going to miss, with the intention of severing the spinal column if I miss the brainstem itself.

But if you hit the spine you won't necessarily die but cripple yourself just as if you aim too high right?

 

[Ynoocs]

But if you hit the spine you won't necessarily die but cripple yourself just as if you aim too high right?

That's what I was thinking, thus me being partial to the behind the ear approach. A .223 should be more than enough to pierce the skull as well, so little concern there. When shooting behind the ear, do you shoot immediately behind it, where your head is still flat, or where it begins curving? Aim straight, up, or down? I can't find a consistent diagram that shows the brain stem relative to the ear.

 

[TiredHorse]

A .223 won't have any trouble piercing the skull, and quite likely will destroy or incapacitate (hydrostatic shock) the brainstem so long as you get the bullet within a couple inches. That said, be sure to use a hollow- or soft-point, as with a gun that powerful you could get a serious shoot-through with minimal expansion/hydrostatic shock if you're just using basic TMJ rounds.

As I tried to say, but evidently failed, I would personally have a difficult time holding a long gun on target while aiming behind my ear, so I might not choose that aim point with a long gun. If you think you can manage it, 1) try it in the mirror first, and 2) by all means do what seems most likely to succeed.

There's at least one diagram early in this thread showing brain stem location relative to the ear. If I decide to use a gun instead of eb/N2 --as is seeming likely right at the moment-- that is the "instruction manual" I will be using. Beyond that, I don't have any further words of wisdom --I haven't done it before, nor have I witnessed a successful attempt.

 

[spanishguy22]

A .223 won't have any trouble piercing the skull, and quite likely will destroy or incapacitate (hydrostatic shock) the brainstem so long as you get the bullet within a couple inches. That said, be sure to use a hollow- or soft-point, as with a gun that powerful you could get a serious shoot-through with minimal expansion/hydrostatic shock if you're just using basic TMJ rounds.

As I tried to say, but evidently failed, I would personally have a difficult time holding a long gun on target while aiming behind my ear, so I might not choose that aim point with a long gun. If you think you can manage it, 1) try it in the mirror first, and 2) by all means do what seems most likely to succeed.

There's at least one diagram early in this thread showing brain stem location relative to the ear. If I decide to use a gun instead of eb/N2 --as is seeming likely right at the moment-- that is the "instruction manual" I will be using. Beyond that, I don't have any further words of wisdom --I haven't done it before, nor have I witnessed a successful attempt.

Thanks for the great info btw what's eb n2?

 

[TiredHorse]

Thanks for the great info btw what's eb n2?

Exit bag with nitrogen.

 

[Bjsnode28]

I found a local classifieds site that you can buy used guns from private sellers. I was hoping someone could tell me if this would be a good buy.
Smith & Wesson
CALIBER 9mm Luger (9x19)
ACTION Striker Fire

 

[TiredHorse]

It'll get the job done.

Just remember, "private sale" doesn't necessarily mean you can dodge the paperwork. If you're in the US, you'll most likely need to have the gun sent to a licensed firearms dealer and go through the whole background check.

 

[Bjsnode28]

It'll get the job done.

Just remember, "private sale" doesn't necessarily mean you can dodge the paperwork. If you're in the US, you'll most likely need to have the gun sent to a licensed firearms dealer and go through the whole background check.

I'm fine with the background check I was just trying to find a better price rather than buying brand new from a store. I don't know anything about guns so I was just wondering if that s&w 9mm Luger (9x19)
ACTION Striker Fire would be powerful enough to do the job.

I'm fine with the background check I was just trying to find a better price rather than buying brand new from a store. I don't know anything about guns so I was just wondering if that s&w 9mm Luger (9x19)
ACTION Striker Fire would be powerful enough to do the job.

Looking online is much less intimidating than going to a gun store when I don't know the first thing about guns. I'm wanting to spend less than $500 but don't know what to look for. Can anyone recommend what to look for? I also prefer the listings that are including some ammo to avoid having to go to a store to buy it

 

[TiredHorse]

Gotcha. Yes, definitely get the best price. Why pay more? Just remember to factor in shipping, which is specialized for firearms.

9x19 (9mm Parabellum) is what people refer to when they say "9mm" and is an adequately powerful round. You'll want to use hollowpoints, of course.

As for the action, that doesn't matter; it just tells you the mechanism for how the round is fired and does not materially affect the power of the round itself.

 

[Bjsnode28]

Gotcha. Yes, definitely get the best price. Why pay more? Just remember to factor in shipping, which is specialized for firearms.

9x19 (9mm Parabellum) is what people refer to when they say "9mm" and is an adequately powerful round. You'll want to use hollowpoints, of course.

As for the action, that doesn't matter; it just tells you the mechanism for how the round is fired and does not materially affect the power of the round itself.

As far as ammo, you say hollow point. How many types of ammo are there? I've seen ammo specifically used for range shooting and I probably don't want that

 

[TiredHorse]

The two principle types are TMJ/FMJ (Total/Full Metal Jacket), which is what most people use at the range, and JHP/HP (Jacketted Hollow Point). There are others --Wadcutters, Semi-wadcutters, etc.-- which are typically for more specialized purposes (WC/SWC are for scored target shooting), but what you'll find on most ammo store shelves is FMJ and JHP.

JHP is designed to deliver the maximum kinetic energy (damage) with the shortest penetration. It's a "defensive round," intended solely to penetrate flesh and do as much damage as possible and minimize risk of "shoot-through," where the bullet exits the target (bad guy, attack dog, etc.). You will almost certainly get shoot-through on your own headshot, but JHP maximizes your chance of damaging the critical structures of your brain (i.e. brainstem) rather than leaving a fairly clean hole, as FMJ would. You can look up YouTube videos of ballistic gelatin tests if you want an example of what each round will do.

 

[Bjsnode28]

The two principle types are TMJ/FMJ (Total/Full Metal Jacket), which is what most people use at the range, and JHP/HP (Jacketted Hollow Point). There are others --Wadcutters, Semi-wadcutters, etc.-- which are typically for more specialized purposes (WC/SWC are for scored target shooting), but what you'll find on most ammo store shelves is FMJ and JHP.

JHP is designed to deliver the maximum kinetic energy (damage) with the shortest penetration. It's a "defensive round," intended solely to penetrate flesh and do as much damage as possible and minimize risk of "shoot-through," where the bullet exits the target (bad guy, attack dog, etc.). You will almost certainly get shoot-through on your own headshot, but JHP maximizes your chance of damaging the critical structures of your brain (i.e. brainstem) rather than leaving a fairly clean hole, as FMJ would. You can look up YouTube videos of ballistic gelatin tests if you want an example of what each round will do.

So JHP would be the best way to go?

 

[TheGoodGuy]

So JHP would be the best way to go?

I can tell you I will be using 9mm JHP 115 grains for my suicide and the gun you are talking about seems like a good choice.

@TiredHorse I just wanted to thank you for keeping your answers so simple and easy to understand for this beginner you´re helping, I see so many "experts" on here who overcomplicate firearm suicide when a 9mm will do the job just fine.

 

[Bjsnode28]

I can tell you I will be using 9mm JHP 115 grains for my suicide and the gun you are talking about seems like a good choice.

@TiredHorse I just wanted to thank you for keeping your answers so simple and easy to understand for this beginner you´re helping, I see so many "experts" on here who overcomplicate firearm suicide when a 9mm will do the job just fine.

Does the grain number matter? I noticed a couple different ones

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Does the grain number matter? I noticed a couple different ones

No it doesn´t, if you shoot youself in the head with a 115 grains or a 158 grains the result will be the same you will die people make handgun suicide out to be rocket science.

 

[Bjsnode28]

Yeah I am a gun nut too and have loved guns all my life and know a lot about them so of course I know some guns might be "better" on paper but if you press a handgun to your head and pull the trigger that will kill you.

Unfortunately, I think reading a lot of these threads have confused me more than I was. It's been made to seem like it's super difficult to do. There were 4 pages on putting the gun in your mouth and at what specific degree up or down angles. I started to go cross eyed.
I think by putting the gun in the mouth and aim towards the back of your head you will die. I feel like by putting it in your mouth it helps to account for any recoil. Where if you point to your temple there's a lot of room for error. When it's in your mouth the bullet is going to hit your brain

 

[spanishguy22]

Unfortunately, I think reading a lot of these threads have confused me more than I was. It's been made to seem like it's super difficult to do. There were 4 pages on putting the gun in your mouth and at what specific degree up or down angles. I started to go cross eyed.
I think by putting the gun in the mouth and aim towards the back of your head you will die. I feel like by putting it in your mouth it helps to account for any recoil. Where if you point to your temple there's a lot of room for error. When it's in your mouth the bullet is going to hit your brain

He's wrong. A lot of cases where they shoot at the head and survive.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Unfortunately, I think reading a lot of these threads have confused me more than I was. It's been made to seem like it's super difficult to do. There were 4 pages on putting the gun in your mouth and at what specific degree up or down angles. I started to go cross eyed.
I think by putting the gun in the mouth and aim towards the back of your head you will die. I feel like by putting it in your mouth it helps to account for any recoil. Where if you point to your temple there's a lot of room for error. When it's in your mouth the bullet is going to hit your brain

Yeah all that talk about the gun in the mouth to aim for the brainstem etc etc. discouraged me from the mouth method. If you want to talk more about it you can PM me if you like since we are going to kill ourselves with the same method and same caliber a 9mm.

I also have pictures and even good videos of people who kill themselves with handguns I find it comforting to see how reliable and fast the method is.

 

[TiredHorse]

For me, the take home point about where to aim is that the brainstem is the bullseye, and the farther the bullet passes from the bullseye, the less likely it is to kill you.

The other part of the equation is the caliber of gun: the larger the caliber, the larger an effect it will have when the bullet enters your skull, and the less precise you need to be to hit that bullseye.

So a small gun like a .22 is entirely lethal if your aim is very good and you hit the brainstem straight on, where with something as large as a .44 mag you can miss by a greater margin and still be successful.

One plea, though: Just don't aim up under your chin. Even with a shotgun, all you'll do is blow your face off.

 

[Bjsnode28]

Yeah all that talk about the gun in the mouth to aim for the brainstem etc etc. discouraged me from the mouth method. If you want to talk more about it you can PM me if you like since we are going to kill ourselves with the same method and same caliber a 9mm.

I also have pictures and even good videos of people who kill themselves with handguns I find it comforting to see how reliable and fast the method is.

I sent you a pm

 

[Retched]

SI turned out to be too strong for me with this method. And far from peaceful I suppose. I no longer sit with mine to my head because I know I will not pull the trigger. I used to think, oh if I had a gun, I'd be gone. But no. That didn't work for me.

 

[TiredHorse]

And for whatever it's worth, I flubbed it about midnight Saturday. Spent 15-20 minutes on my knees in the back yard with the muzzle jammed against my head, every muscle tense and shaking, completely unable to move a single finger the necessary 3/4".

Just because it's a reliable method doesn't mean SI can't foil it.

Maybe next time.