FUCK the family unit

[NaturalBornNEET]

this is the one place where I don't need to explain why the concept of family as some invariably flawless and beautiful thing is a big fat lie. And personally I don't see declining birth rates or any other degradation of family values as a problem that needs to be reversed but as a transformative process into a more intelligent mode of existence. Because this chaotic hodgepodge of children roleplaying as "adults" (whatever that is) and vacuously fucking each other into little me clones because that's what the daddy/mommy clonegod I came from did ab aeterno and oh no now I have a little me clone to dump all my trauma on to but I don't even realize I'm doing this because I'm just doing what all the other people are doing and they aren't self-reflecting because what's a reflection I only know things and do what other people do and I can only observe other people as things outside myself so how can I ever confront myself let's just reproduce myself because I can't bear to just stop and confront what myself really is!... it's a terrible system.

I'm even inclined to prefer some dystopian-seeming system where infants are just raised by AI in chemical vats where they're equally provided with whatever they need, such as nourishment, and protected from external traumas until their minds are formed concretely enough to exist in the external world without taking too much damage from it. Because yes to me that sounds preferable than trusting children in the care of most "adults".

 

[Hvergelmir]

Interesting. I think we have more or less the same experience, but drastically different conclusions.
I think the family unit is crucial to a healthy development, and if not the family unit, some kind of family unit. I'm open to cultural variations etc, but I would be very weary about discarding the idea all together.

To me it really seem like a somewhat traditional and stable family, is the most successful way to organize.
I otherwise agree with the problems. If we could off-load it to AI; great, I just don't know what that would look like, and would be hesitant to put my trust in it.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I like both of the above posts, OP made me lol, but yeah I agree with ^.

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

Interesting. I think we have more or less the same experience, but drastically different conclusions.
I think the family unit is crucial to a healthy development, and if not the family unit, some kind of family unit. I'm open to cultural variations etc, but I would be very weary about discarding the idea all together.

To me it really seem like a somewhat traditional and stable family, is the most successful way to organize.
I otherwise agree with the problems. If we could off-load it to AI; great, I just don't know what that would look like, and would be hesitant to put my trust in it.

how would you define the most basic necessary family unit? A mother and father? I grew up without either a stable mother or father figure and I still exist, perfectly. All we really need is love, family is just one vehicle to receive that love but it's much too buggy and imperfect, and it takes away so much autonomy, to have to rely on the caprices of other people to receive love can never beat just basking in your own love. It's all too common a belief that love is and can only be obtained from other people, that love is just a human emotion, or that it doesn't even exist or matter. Which is such a weird handicap to impose on oneself.... to just completely assume these things, trick yourself into thinking they aren't just assumptions and actually just stone cold reality and then live your life in the fetters of these mental constructs....

 

[Pluto]

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

mother and father are just symbols the mind created to represent love, they aren't necessary for love because they are just symbols for it, representations, a representation is just that, a re-presentation of something already present.

The idea of lacking love is an illusion, a living system can become so autonomous it can recognize and sustain itself off its own love, this is a much better step for humanity to take imo, than the weird technocratic ideas of the elites like elon musk, who are just roleplaying some epic, why try to create your own paradise by remodeling the external world when you can just remodel yourself?

back to the point of mother and father just being symbols, I mean that literally. I won't even go far into the idealist perspective but just like, when you see the human you correlate to your father, the "father-ness" is just a projection, a conceptual layer immediately imposed upon the sight of the human you see as your dad. You could go your whole childhood believing your father to be your biological father but then find out hes not, as an example, though this wouldnt take away from the love he represents, or you may define father not by blood relations at all, which is my point, symbols are just that symbols, not fixed and defined by some authority outside yourself but created and made sense of by you

 

[Hvergelmir]

how would you define the most basic necessary family unit? A mother and father?

In general, yes. I think that's the proven, most successful configuration in the culture I know.
That doesn't mean that I think it's the one and only configuration, but the one I'd use for reference - the default, that I've seen work well, in the environment where I live.
Anything else would to me be at least partially experimental. I'd avoid it, if possible.

I grew up without either a stable mother or father figure and I still exist...

Likewise, and I believe that has contributed greatly to both lack of identity, and lack of opportunity.
I too still exist, and according to some metrics I'd even be quite successful. Nonetheless I ended up here, and with a rope ready on short notice...

mother and father are just symbols the mind created to represent love

To me, good parents are much more than that. Primarily, they are responsible for security and guidance.
I might be biased, but I think that might be even more important than love. Love can be obtained in other ways, but without underlying security and wisdom it get hard.

you may define father not by blood [...] symbols are just that symbols

To me it's less about feelings and symbolism, and more about real-world pragmatic action.
If you're not supported by a literal father, you'd have to find support elsewhere, which can be hard.