Exposing Angus Crawford and the BBC for accidently promoting an SN source and some other stuff.

[whats_the_point]

They'll make your life so hellish that you want to die, but won't let you die. Why don't they actually do something to address why people are miserable in the first place and why they're coming to SS. SS isn't going around finding people and forcing drugs down their throats.

 

[Adûnâi]

They'll make your life so hellish that you want to die, but won't let you die. Why don't they actually do something to address why people are miserable in the first place and why they're coming to SS. SS isn't going around finding people and forcing drugs down their throats.

Hasn't human development gone ridiculously up since the times of smallpox and world wars? They don't have magic wands. The greatest losers right now are incels, but they're a minority. Whereas suicidal people par excellence have always existed - but in quantities too negligible to matter.

 

[lost&lonely]

it's always the BBC! Have they nothing better to do??

Also the Daily Mail. They love going on a crusade, such as the time they campaigned to stop Page 3 girls and then populated the right hand column of the Mail Online site with women in skimpy outfits and grotesque headlines.

 

[ayb]

They won't allow legal regulated euthanasia including for non-terminal conditions, but they will throw a hissy fit and try to ban consenting adults from suicide. What the fuck. Living isn't an obligation.

 

[soapy]

It's strange because we're told that we are free (in some places) to live our life as we want. Make choices and just do 'you'...yet what if the choice we wanted was no longer just doing 'us'

 

[just dave]

It's strange because we're told that we are free (in some places) to live our life as we want. Make choices and just do 'you'...yet what if the choice we wanted was no longer just doing 'us'

We're not paying taxes if we're dead. Therefore they need to keep us alive. We are a commodity

 

[indefinitelynumb444]

So there has been a new BBC report about SN. Angus Crawford went to Ukraine to confront someone who sells SN legally to their customers. It's the same reporter who confronted the founders and called us pro-suicide in several articles. [1] [2][3][4]

In that article, they do two things. They confirm that "the poison" source has a high purity. They also tell their viewers where to find that poison - in Ukraine. Very important details. So I did a little test to investigate if someone who isn't a member of this forum and has absolutely no idea which source that article is referring to, could find out alone on that report where to buy SN.

View attachment 130369

So what did I find out? Well. First of all, they mention in that report that Kenneth Law has been arrested for selling the same poison. Okay, let's start there. I do a quick Google search for his name and I found out very quickly what's the name of the substance that he sold to people, thanks to this article here.

View attachment 130376

Okay. Now I have a name of the substance. If I search the name of the substance in Google with the location of that seller that's been mentioned and confronted in the BBC article, I can find the source. It's the fifth result in Google if you include the ad.

View attachment 130374

If you use the chemical formula to search for the substance, it's the fourth result in Google, again, including the ad.

View attachment 130375

I'm not telling you where to buy that substance, that's not the point of this thread and I have censored the name of the substance for that reason. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy here. This journalist has accused us of promoting that substance, which isn't true by the way, but you just wrote an article where you tell us where to find SN basically, like your article was the missing piece to the puzzle and anyone who is suicidal and not a member of Sanctioned Suicide will be able to find the source now that ships to the UK if they apply some deductive skills. No article, not even Tantacrul, has done that so far. You also confirmed a high purity substance with an actual lab. That's very helpful for people who didn't know before if the substance was actually potent enough to serve it's purpose. So you exposed non-SaSu members to a potentially lethal and effective way to kill yourself. And I'm sure all the suicidal people out there will appreciate that you did all the investigative work for them.

I mean, what's even the point of this BBC report? Does it bring us any new valuable information, anything important or helpful, which is kinda important if you do journalism? No, all he does is harassing someone from Ukraine. Oh, and of course, that article also tells us that regulating the substance doesn't work because people can still obtain it from other sources in other countries.. So again, that brings us back to the question if regulating the substance in your country even serves any suicide-preventing purpose or is it simply an easy way to score some political points without actually addressing the reasons why people commit suicide in the first place? The BBC is still focusing too much energy and time on the symptoms of suicide ideation when they should look into the causes of suicide ideation, as I've pointed out in previous thread l. And where could you possibly find out about the reasons why people want to commit suicide? Oh yeah, in this forum, by reading all these posts here, which you didn't do because we're all just pro-suicide here, right.... Again, this forum would be a very useful resource to improve people's lives and prevent suicide if you took us and the people who used it seriously but it's of course easier for Angus Crawford to fly to Ukraine and talk to some random person, instead of holding their own goverment accountable, which doesn't care for its own people. Maybe, that's the problem? Just a guess... But that's how much he cares about suicide, doing useless journalism which doesn't benefit anyone. It's really funny though, they fly to Ukraine to confront someone who abides by local rules, they tell us where to buy his product while doing so, for an audience that's in the UK and therefore has no legislative power in Ukraine to regulate the substance and therefore prevent further sales but instead all the people who had a difficult time finding a source for SN in the UK know where to get it now. Was that the plan? Yikes. This is simply neglecting journalistic standards in exchange for your five minutes of fame and a fancy headline. That's pretty much it and I'm not the only person saying that.

Here is a scientic article outlining the exact same issue and calling out the media for irresponsible reporting when it comes to Kenneth Law and his products.

The Kenneth Law Media Event – A Dangerous Natural Experiment

econtent.hogrefe.com

What are they saying?

View attachment 130380

View attachment 130381

View attachment 130382

Just some important snippets. The article goes on and I recommend reading it to understand why the coverage is problematic from an anti-choice suicide-prevention perspective, which I obviously disagree with but the hypocrisy among all people who have reported on this forum and the substance still exists. These reporters aren't even following their own moral compass. I think the last sentence is especially damning as it clearly highlights that they don't really care about suicide prevention if it conflicts with the potential to produce some nice headlines. I think the bigger picture here is that these journalists are hypocrites. They will point the finger at us and claim we're promoting a substances and pretend a rise in the use of that substance for end-to-life purposes is our fault but is that even true? There is no evidence for that. This forum is relatively unknown and that also applies to the method. I have highlighted in the past that these SN suicides are pretty rare compared to other methods that are used every single day. See these articles here where I have debunked the so-called "concerning suicide trend" around SN.

Debunking the SN hysteria.

The media found another topic to talk about. They have once again covered SN, raising the alarm about a "disturbing trend". There have also been some scientific papers[1][2] reporting about SN suicides. I'm not gonna address the reason why SN is appealing as a suicide method in this thread...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The SN hysteria continues in 2024.

As you know I'm trying to debunk the hysteria surrounding SN and just recently I stumbled upon an interesting article again. So, according to this article, Colorado is trying to ban the sale of concentrated SN. Okay. That state has a population of 5.8 million. What drastic numbers of people...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The amounts of suicide that happen with SN and the constant reporting on SN are out of proportion. And the article I've linked above also mentions that Google trends and the popularity of the substance directly correlates with the reporting.

View attachment 130389

And trust me, when the entire media apparatus blasts a substance for months non-stop, even mentioning it's name, that has much more of an impact on actual suicide numbers than our forum. And the media didn't just bring SN to the mainstream, they also brought us into the mainstream. We are a niche forum and we used to be relatively unknown until the NYT put us on the frontpage and until Tantacrul made a video about us that's at almost 5.4 million views, which is the reason why there is an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to this forum now. Let's not forget that we have been under constant exposure since 2021. That has increased the reach of this forum, it has increased our registration numbers and it has boosted our membership count to 45k and it has increased the amount of people who have access to ressouces now that helps them make decisions. That wouldn't have happened without the relentless reporting and let's not forget that the NYT actually named this forum, which made it super easy for people to find us and that also contradicts with the journalistic guidelines that's been laid out in this article. The way how our forum has been covered have been constant violations of those ethical guidelines. That's a fact. The NYT has been criticised from mental health experts for blasting this forum. I hate to say it, but if you advertise the forbidden fruit - and that's how they have portrayed this forum for years - that isn't going to scare people away. It will make them come to us - voluntarily, because there is a need for a website like ours. That's another fact. There are people out there who are done being told what they can and can't do with their own lives and in this forum, we have a different approach to this subject. I have said it in 2021 and I will say it again.



So what's my take away on this? They're making it worse, as ususal. They made it worse when they exposed our forum to the public, which was supposed to be a niche forum, only to be found if you specifically searched for it. And the exact same thing applies to the coverage on SN. If you blast that substance in the media 24/7, you don't need to be surprised if a lot more people will use it to exercise their right to die but you certainly don't get to blame us for any alleged trends when you give that substance so much attention. And flying from the UK to Ukraine and confronting some random person instead of holding your own goverment accountable for not actually improving people's lives is peak irony. I can't wait for the next ground-breaking report from the BBC when Angus Crawford flies down to Africa to find another poor person minding his own business he can hold responsible for why people in the UK commit suicide...

That will definitely address the real problems of people living in the UK and definitely improve the lives of so many suicidal people. I'm sure they will be so grateful for all the funds going into these visits in the US and Europe for these totally valuable and newsworthy 10 second interviews...

I couldnt agree with this more. I myself am an off and on suicidal and the ONLY way I found this forum or the SN source was through those articles.

 

[ItsAllSoTiresome]

The BBC are scum, they make me ashamed to be British in all honesty. "Oh no, people in deep mental anguish are trying to escape from their cursed existence and don't want to be obedient taxpayers anymore, we most stop this at once!"

 

[color_me_gone]

at the end of the day they want to look for a boogeyman to blame cause they can't accept the fact their family members chose to die on their own accord. Even if there were people here who encouraged suicide as they claim, no one here forced them to buy the SN or drink the SN. And instead of blaming others so often maybe they should self reflect that maybe just maybe the families are to blame to some degree. I grew up in a dysfunctional family and it's one of my main reasons why I want to die. Blaming others for how your family may have fucked up along the way and may have been one of the reasons why their family members killed themselves is honestly the height of shame.

In the 5+ years I have been on this site, I have NEVER seen anyone encouraging another member to follow through with their ideations.
We don't encourage nor discourage.
We lend a listening ear, and try to help people with whatever problems they have.
I have found that the SS members are more kind and empathetic than people on the outside.

But at least one person get it: (copied from the Wikipedia article on SaSu)

April Foreman, a psychologist on the executive board of the American Association of Suicidology, argued that rather than block the site, better systems of support for people with suicidal ideation need to be created.

 

[whitefeather]

Thankyou Rain . Yes, this forum has not been the same since the day when the NYT did this same thing BBC is doing now.

 

[Walpurgisnacht]

BBC "news" is such bullshit, I'm not surprised. It's a very insular organisation that disregards and ignores any and all criticisms of their biased "journalism," no better than tabloids tbh -- in fact they're probably worse, since they actively bully people into funding them and get away with it.
Not to mention the BBC still shields child rapists and faces no consequences.

If you live in UK never let them harass you into paying them.

 

[PriestessOfVenus]

Dear Rain,

That's the concept of individual autonomy and it seems to me out of all these journalists and anti-SaSu activists, I'm the only who truly believes in it. That's why I have defended the right to transition (trans rights) and the right to have access to abortion (reproductive rights) as human rights because both fundamentally touch individual autonomy and that's one of the most fundamental rights we give to people. And my position on the right to die, your right to decide when you want to check out, is merely an extension of my belief in individual autonomy, it's just another human rights issue that I feel passionate about.

As a fellow trans woman, I wholeheartedly applaud your stance on individual autonomy: I feel likewise, and for me there is no fundamental difference between the right to block or counter reproduction (birth control, abortion. voluntary sterilization), the right to change one's sex, the right to pursue other freely chosen transhumanist alterations (imagine when sci-fi technologies become possible in reality), and the right to die - they are all just different manifestations of the same fundamental principle of individual autonomy. However, I have this nagging question in mind, and I just have to ask: does your idea of individual autonomy extend to a person's sovereign right to refuse pushed/coerced/mandated vaccines, and not be shut out and excluded from communities for that choice? I have yet to encounter anyone who believes that individual autonomy includes both the right to change one's sex and the right to refuse vaccines: I know lots and lots of people who support one, and lots and lots of people who support the other, but I have yet to find any significant figure, anyone I can look up to, who supports both forms of individual autonomy at the same time.

 

[Silent_cries]

So there has been a new BBC report about SN. Angus Crawford went to Ukraine to confront someone who sells SN legally to their customers. It's the same reporter who confronted the founders and called us pro-suicide in several articles. [1] [2][3][4]

In that article, they do two things. They confirm that "the poison" source has a high purity. They also tell their viewers where to find that poison - in Ukraine. Very important details. So I did a little test to investigate if someone who isn't a member of this forum and has absolutely no idea which source that article is referring to, could find out alone on that report where to buy SN.

View attachment 130369

So what did I find out? Well. First of all, they mention in that report that Kenneth Law has been arrested for selling the same poison. Okay, let's start there. I do a quick Google search for his name and I found out very quickly what's the name of the substance that he sold to people, thanks to this article here.

View attachment 130376

Okay. Now I have a name of the substance. If I search the name of the substance in Google with the location of that seller that's been mentioned and confronted in the BBC article, I can find the source. It's the fifth result in Google if you include the ad.

View attachment 130374

If you use the chemical formula to search for the substance, it's the fourth result in Google, again, including the ad.

View attachment 130375

I'm not telling you where to buy that substance, that's not the point of this thread and I have censored the name of the substance for that reason. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy here. This journalist has accused us of promoting that substance, which isn't true by the way, but you just wrote an article where you tell us where to find SN basically, like your article was the missing piece to the puzzle and anyone who is suicidal and not a member of Sanctioned Suicide will be able to find the source now that ships to the UK if they apply some deductive skills. No article, not even Tantacrul, has done that so far. You also confirmed a high purity substance with an actual lab. That's very helpful for people who didn't know before if the substance was actually potent enough to serve it's purpose. So you exposed non-SaSu members to a potentially lethal and effective way to kill yourself. And I'm sure all the suicidal people out there will appreciate that you did all the investigative work for them.

I mean, what's even the point of this BBC report? Does it bring us any new valuable information, anything important or helpful, which is kinda important if you do journalism? No, all he does is harassing someone from Ukraine. Oh, and of course, that article also tells us that regulating the substance doesn't work because people can still obtain it from other sources in other countries.. So again, that brings us back to the question if regulating the substance in your country even serves any suicide-preventing purpose or is it simply an easy way to score some political points without actually addressing the reasons why people commit suicide in the first place? The BBC is still focusing too much energy and time on the symptoms of suicide ideation when they should look into the causes of suicide ideation, as I've pointed out in previous thread l. And where could you possibly find out about the reasons why people want to commit suicide? Oh yeah, in this forum, by reading all these posts here, which you didn't do because we're all just pro-suicide here, right.... Again, this forum would be a very useful resource to improve people's lives and prevent suicide if you took us and the people who used it seriously but it's of course easier for Angus Crawford to fly to Ukraine and talk to some random person, instead of holding their own goverment accountable, which doesn't care for its own people. Maybe, that's the problem? Just a guess... But that's how much he cares about suicide, doing useless journalism which doesn't benefit anyone. It's really funny though, they fly to Ukraine to confront someone who abides by local rules, they tell us where to buy his product while doing so, for an audience that's in the UK and therefore has no legislative power in Ukraine to regulate the substance and therefore prevent further sales but instead all the people who had a difficult time finding a source for SN in the UK know where to get it now. Was that the plan? Yikes. This is simply neglecting journalistic standards in exchange for your five minutes of fame and a fancy headline. That's pretty much it and I'm not the only person saying that.

Here is a scientic article outlining the exact same issue and calling out the media for irresponsible reporting when it comes to Kenneth Law and his products.

The Kenneth Law Media Event – A Dangerous Natural Experiment

econtent.hogrefe.com

What are they saying?

View attachment 130380

View attachment 130381

View attachment 130382

Just some important snippets. The article goes on and I recommend reading it to understand why the coverage is problematic from an anti-choice suicide-prevention perspective, which I obviously disagree with but the hypocrisy among all people who have reported on this forum and the substance still exists. These reporters aren't even following their own moral compass. I think the last sentence is especially damning as it clearly highlights that they don't really care about suicide prevention if it conflicts with the potential to produce some nice headlines. I think the bigger picture here is that these journalists are hypocrites. They will point the finger at us and claim we're promoting a substances and pretend a rise in the use of that substance for end-to-life purposes is our fault but is that even true? There is no evidence for that. This forum is relatively unknown and that also applies to the method. I have highlighted in the past that these SN suicides are pretty rare compared to other methods that are used every single day. See these articles here where I have debunked the so-called "concerning suicide trend" around SN.

Debunking the SN hysteria.

The media found another topic to talk about. They have once again covered SN, raising the alarm about a "disturbing trend". There have also been some scientific papers[1][2] reporting about SN suicides. I'm not gonna address the reason why SN is appealing as a suicide method in this thread...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The SN hysteria continues in 2024.

As you know I'm trying to debunk the hysteria surrounding SN and just recently I stumbled upon an interesting article again. So, according to this article, Colorado is trying to ban the sale of concentrated SN. Okay. That state has a population of 5.8 million. What drastic numbers of people...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The amounts of suicide that happen with SN and the constant reporting on SN are out of proportion. And the article I've linked above also mentions that Google trends and the popularity of the substance directly correlates with the reporting.

View attachment 130389

And trust me, when the entire media apparatus blasts a substance for months non-stop, even mentioning it's name, that has much more of an impact on actual suicide numbers than our forum. And the media didn't just bring SN to the mainstream, they also brought us into the mainstream. We are a niche forum and we used to be relatively unknown until the NYT put us on the frontpage and until Tantacrul made a video about us that's at almost 5.4 million views, which is the reason why there is an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to this forum now. Let's not forget that we have been under constant exposure since 2021. That has increased the reach of this forum, it has increased our registration numbers and it has boosted our membership count to 45k and it has increased the amount of people who have access to ressouces now that helps them make decisions. That wouldn't have happened without the relentless reporting and let's not forget that the NYT actually named this forum, which made it super easy for people to find us and that also contradicts with the journalistic guidelines that's been laid out in this article. The way how our forum has been covered have been constant violations of those ethical guidelines. That's a fact. The NYT has been criticised from mental health experts for blasting this forum. I hate to say it, but if you advertise the forbidden fruit - and that's how they have portrayed this forum for years - that isn't going to scare people away. It will make them come to us - voluntarily, because there is a need for a website like ours. That's another fact. There are people out there who are done being told what they can and can't do with their own lives and in this forum, we have a different approach to this subject. I have said it in 2021 and I will say it again.



So what's my take away on this? They're making it worse, as ususal. They made it worse when they exposed our forum to the public, which was supposed to be a niche forum, only to be found if you specifically searched for it. And the exact same thing applies to the coverage on SN. If you blast that substance in the media 24/7, you don't need to be surprised if a lot more people will use it to exercise their right to die but you certainly don't get to blame us for any alleged trends when you give that substance so much attention. And flying from the UK to Ukraine and confronting some random person instead of holding your own goverment accountable for not actually improving people's lives is peak irony. I can't wait for the next ground-breaking report from the BBC when Angus Crawford flies down to Africa to find another poor person minding his own business he can hold responsible for why people in the UK commit suicide...

That will definitely address the real problems of people living in the UK and definitely improve the lives of so many suicidal people. I'm sure they will be so grateful for all the funds going into these visits in the US and Europe for these totally valuable and newsworthy 10 second interviews...

That's how they get views, from harassing the innocent. :/

 

[BardBarrie]

They'll make your life so hellish that you want to die, but won't let you die. Why don't they actually do something to address why people are miserable in the first place and why they're coming to SS. SS isn't going around finding people and forcing drugs down their throats.

The Ruling Class do not want "their" cash-cow cattle taking matters in to their own hands and permanently leaving the farm: they want a permanent underclass of miserable, subservient workers and taxpayers — like back in the "good old days".

 

[SaltedSnail]

Journalism at its finest.

 

[Nigh]

Well, I think they've taken the Ukraine listing off of Google, as I can't find it anywhere, to my dismay

 

[motoko_s9]

Poison seller tied to suicide forum tracked down by BBC

Ukrainian Leonid Zakutenko sells a type of chemical online thought to be linked to at least 130 UK deaths.

www.bbc.co.uk

One detail of that article that I found odd, was that all the cases that could be searched were to do with the chef in North America. The only one that the BBC implied might have had links with the Ukrainian supplier and this forum, I cannot find online. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but this seems anomalous.

Linda was given "easy access to a 'death kit' for a few pounds" after finding out about the seller on a well-known suicide forum, according to sister Helen Kite.

She described her sisters, 54, as "intelligent, caring and articulate".

I cannot find any mention of these names online. Any searches just lead back to the one BBC article.

 

[Cress]

News journalists And organizations don't Really care about harm done to individuals they just care about getting a lot of attention and getting that advertiser money.

If you need any more proof you literally have nearly every local police department begging News organizations not to report on school shootings Or similar types of events because statistics show that within two weeks There is likely to be another shooting. They've almost entirely created Mass shooting events culturally by themselves.

If Every news organization simply agreed to not broadcast or even mention public acts of violence they would go way down. However at the core they really don't care they justify it by saying if they don't report it other people will.

Same logic with developing new weapons and artificial intelligence if you don't do it somewhere else Is going to. You end up with constant escalation and ever increasing extremes.

Considering everything else the new cycle reports. The bbc reporting on popular Ways for people to harm themselves is pretty small fry's for them. I doubt they care about statistically increasing suicide even a little bit to be totally honest.